A lot of people have been commenting about the Councils actions in ME2, and i think this theory might explain it. First, The Council lsot their best opperative, Saren, and i think that didn't really sink in until all the crazyness of the first game was over. Then their new top agent, Shepard, disapears and then shows up 2 years later working with a terrorist group. I think at that point they have been a bit nervous about being betrayed and that is why they did not do much. I also forsee the Council deciding that Shepard is a genuine threat and sending at leat one Spectre after him in ME3
Motivations behind Council's actions
Débuté par
KrunkMasterB
, févr. 27 2010 10:35
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#2
Posté 27 février 2010 - 10:55
Vanaer
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It seems very logical to me. First of all, what proof can we present to the council?
- That I have had a bad dream by looking into a beacon that's destroyed?
- That I spoke to Sovereign, which could be just as well an overconfident VI set up by Saren?
- That the massive ship (that isn't even that distinct from Geth ships) is Sovereign, the talking ship?
- That Vigil, the VI on Ilos, told me the reapers harvest the galaxy every now and then, but the VI has shut itself down so no one can verify it?
- The derelict reaper that I got destroyed (even then, it could be just as well a very old ship - doesn't mean they kill us once in a while)
You can not prove there's a cycle of death and destruction if the other party prefers not conform to this leap of faith. Faith you do not need since you've seen the prophesy yourself.
- That I have had a bad dream by looking into a beacon that's destroyed?
- That I spoke to Sovereign, which could be just as well an overconfident VI set up by Saren?
- That the massive ship (that isn't even that distinct from Geth ships) is Sovereign, the talking ship?
- That Vigil, the VI on Ilos, told me the reapers harvest the galaxy every now and then, but the VI has shut itself down so no one can verify it?
- The derelict reaper that I got destroyed (even then, it could be just as well a very old ship - doesn't mean they kill us once in a while)
You can not prove there's a cycle of death and destruction if the other party prefers not conform to this leap of faith. Faith you do not need since you've seen the prophesy yourself.
#3
Posté 27 février 2010 - 10:58
Tyreal42a
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Ah, yes. "This thread".
Interesting idea having another spectre sent after you. Seeing and fighting another spectre would be fun.
Interesting idea having another spectre sent after you. Seeing and fighting another spectre would be fun.
#4
Posté 27 février 2010 - 11:04
Apheration
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Kinda off topic but one of the Cerberus Network news updates talked about another Spectre agent, some chick...it got me thinking - would be awesome if you played a mission were you fought along side another Spectre. Even though Garrus under different circumstances would have ended up as one.
#5
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 01:13
Collider
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In addition, the Council's unwillingness to help shepard is a plot device. It gives Shepard something to do - and therefore gives the player a game.
#6
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 01:20
Commander_David
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that would be sweet if another spectre tries to kill u all the time in ME3 but have it so your spectre rival actually sees evidence of the Reapers and have some super sweet plot twist
#7
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 01:33
jklinders
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And that spectre will be human and wearing full body and face armor. after you win you take their helmet off and see it is Ashley/Kaiden. I actually would not mind that as a plot twist.
#8
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 05:54
2342
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I could understand all the council's decisions in ME1 because those decisions were based on logic and the knowledge that anything they did could have galactic size consequences. They didn't want a war with the Terminus so they made you a specter. They didn't have any evidence that the reapers exist but they give you the authority and resources to find it.
This time around though their actions seem to be more out of willful ignorance. I know that you still don't have the "smoking gun" that the council's looking for but still it seems like they could have done something other than believe sovereign was a geth creation.
This time around though their actions seem to be more out of willful ignorance. I know that you still don't have the "smoking gun" that the council's looking for but still it seems like they could have done something other than believe sovereign was a geth creation.
#9
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 06:25
LPPrince
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I'm going to laugh if at the end of ME3, if the original Council is still alive, they're like-
"We believed you from the start. We just pretended not to because you perform better under duress."
Shepard's going to cry.
"We believed you from the start. We just pretended not to because you perform better under duress."
Shepard's going to cry.
#10
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 06:25
screwoffreg
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One is indoctrinated like Denethor in Lord of the Rings fell to Sauron.
#11
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 06:28
Hyper Cutter
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I'm not sure why we couldn't just share the beacon vision with the asari Councilor the way we do later with Liara...Vanaer wrote...
- That I have had a bad dream by looking into a beacon that's destroyed?.
#12
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 06:32
scxenophobe
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Hyper Cutter wrote...
I'm not sure why we couldn't just share the beacon vision with the asari Councilor the way we do later with Liara...Vanaer wrote...
- That I have had a bad dream by looking into a beacon that's destroyed?.
That would make sense, can't have any of that.
Edit: Also Liara is a prothean expert, something about understanding it better.
Modifié par scxenophobe, 17 mars 2010 - 06:33 .
#13
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 06:37
yummysoap
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It's understandable that they don't exactly hang on Shepard's every word, I'll give them that.
That doesn't mean that it doesn't at least warrant an investigation. The Council's dismissal is revolting. Shepard, the motherf*cking savior of the galaxy is making a serious allegation that threatens all sentient species in the galaxy, and given the fact that there is at least some evidence to support his claim (i.e. Sovereign, Ilos, the Geth, etc.) it deserves at least some attention.
Not even the most idiotic government would just go "ah yes, 'reapers'". The only way I can accept this is if it turns out in ME3 the Council were just withholding information on Shepard due to his ties with Cerberus. I hope to God that is the case, otherwise I'm considering this a badly filled plot-hole.
That doesn't mean that it doesn't at least warrant an investigation. The Council's dismissal is revolting. Shepard, the motherf*cking savior of the galaxy is making a serious allegation that threatens all sentient species in the galaxy, and given the fact that there is at least some evidence to support his claim (i.e. Sovereign, Ilos, the Geth, etc.) it deserves at least some attention.
Not even the most idiotic government would just go "ah yes, 'reapers'". The only way I can accept this is if it turns out in ME3 the Council were just withholding information on Shepard due to his ties with Cerberus. I hope to God that is the case, otherwise I'm considering this a badly filled plot-hole.
#14
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 06:47
knightnblu
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The one thing that I am concerned about is that the Council may be acting under the Reaper's influence. Indoctrination is subtle and the Reapers used this tactic against the Protheans 50K years ago to infiltrate hold outs. At the very least, it is a possibility.
#16
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 07:18
SurfaceBeneath
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There's pretty good evidence that the Citadel may be subtly manipulating everyone on it with some kind of mental blind spot for Reaper and Reaper related phenomenon.
Consider the following:
The Citadel seems to attract races to base the center of their galactic civilization on it. The Citadel coincidentally is also the way in which the Reapers invade the Galaxy from deep space every 50,000 year cycle. Admittedly, this is the center of the relay system, so it makes sense to make the Citadel a central capitol of your society. However, this leads to my second point...
Why would you base your entire civilization on an ancient floating space station maintained by creatures you just ignore, and which you've lived upon for several thousand years but have still not yet actually learned anything about? And not only have you not learned anything about it in that time, you just don't seem to really care or be trying at all. There isn't any logical reason that nobody has gone and dug around in the guts of the station in that time. There isn't any logical reason that they can't find someway to scan or figure out the Keepers when those two paranoid idiots from the first game did so so easily.
Finally: No one outside the Citadel (or Alliance, who's leadership has been stationed there for several years) seems to have a hard time believing that the Reapers exist. The Quarians for example don't bat an eyelash when you start talking about Reapers around them... not that you'd be able to see them if they did.
Consider the following:
The Citadel seems to attract races to base the center of their galactic civilization on it. The Citadel coincidentally is also the way in which the Reapers invade the Galaxy from deep space every 50,000 year cycle. Admittedly, this is the center of the relay system, so it makes sense to make the Citadel a central capitol of your society. However, this leads to my second point...
Why would you base your entire civilization on an ancient floating space station maintained by creatures you just ignore, and which you've lived upon for several thousand years but have still not yet actually learned anything about? And not only have you not learned anything about it in that time, you just don't seem to really care or be trying at all. There isn't any logical reason that nobody has gone and dug around in the guts of the station in that time. There isn't any logical reason that they can't find someway to scan or figure out the Keepers when those two paranoid idiots from the first game did so so easily.
Finally: No one outside the Citadel (or Alliance, who's leadership has been stationed there for several years) seems to have a hard time believing that the Reapers exist. The Quarians for example don't bat an eyelash when you start talking about Reapers around them... not that you'd be able to see them if they did.
Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 17 mars 2010 - 07:19 .
#17
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 07:22
Terraneaux
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SurfaceBeneath wrote...
There's pretty good evidence that the Citadel may be subtly manipulating everyone on it with some kind of mental blind spot for Reaper and Reaper related phenomenon.
Consider the following:
The Citadel seems to attract races to base the center of their galactic civilization on it. The Citadel coincidentally is also the way in which the Reapers invade the Galaxy from deep space every 50,000 year cycle. Admittedly, this is the center of the relay system, so it makes sense to make the Citadel a central capitol of your society. However, this leads to my second point...
Why would you base your entire civilization on an ancient floating space station maintained by creatures you just ignore, and which you've lived upon for several thousand years but have still not yet actually learned anything about? And not only have you not learned anything about it in that time, you just don't seem to really care or be trying at all. There isn't any logical reason that nobody has gone and dug around in the guts of the station in that time. There isn't any logical reason that they can't find someway to scan or figure out the Keepers when those two paranoid idiots from the first game did so so easily.
Finally: No one outside the Citadel (or Alliance, who's leadership has been stationed there for several years) seems to have a hard time believing that the Reapers exist. The Quarians for example don't bat an eyelash when you start talking about Reapers around them... not that you'd be able to see them if they did.
Not this again. The Citadel doesn't indoctrinate people, if it could it would have just indoctrinated its residents to open up the mass relay for the reapers when the time was right.
#18
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 08:06
Wolverfrog
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I don't think the Council have dismissed the Reaper threat, they're probably just reluctant to talk to you, now that you work with Cerberus. You'll all see in Mass Effect 3.
#19
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 08:08
Massadonious1
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Politicians acting like politicians. News at 11. And stay tuned after for our exclusive Blasto interview.
#21
Posté 17 mars 2010 - 12:21
jklinders
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SurfaceBeneath wrote...
There's pretty good evidence that the Citadel may be subtly manipulating everyone on it with some kind of mental blind spot for Reaper and Reaper related phenomenon.
Consider the following:
The Citadel seems to attract races to base the center of their galactic civilization on it. The Citadel coincidentally is also the way in which the Reapers invade the Galaxy from deep space every 50,000 year cycle. Admittedly, this is the center of the relay system, so it makes sense to make the Citadel a central capitol of your society. However, this leads to my second point...
Why would you base your entire civilization on an ancient floating space station maintained by creatures you just ignore, and which you've lived upon for several thousand years but have still not yet actually learned anything about? And not only have you not learned anything about it in that time, you just don't seem to really care or be trying at all. There isn't any logical reason that nobody has gone and dug around in the guts of the station in that time. There isn't any logical reason that they can't find someway to scan or figure out the Keepers when those two paranoid idiots from the first game did so so easily.
Finally: No one outside the Citadel (or Alliance, who's leadership has been stationed there for several years) seems to have a hard time believing that the Reapers exist. The Quarians for example don't bat an eyelash when you start talking about Reapers around them... not that you'd be able to see them if they did.
I got this one, the answer you are looking for is complacancy. The citadel council is primed to fall one way or another no matter what happens. They have sat there not progressing, not changing, smugly self assured that everything is all right and will continue to be all right for too long. The asari matriarch/bartender has it right, but she was virtually exiled for speaking out that it could all come crashing down on them if they don't stop acting like Rome just before the fall. Remeber, when you are at the top, it is absurdly hard to believe anyone will topple you.
the real reason humans are feared is because they have the temerity to do things different. They are not content to use the same tried and true tactics that have worked for the council for millenia. From battlefield to meeting room the humans make their own rules. This scares the crap out of the other races.
