334 réponses à ce sujet

[Arhka]

Overload isn't useless on organics, it overheats weapons too.

[SmilingMirror]

rumination888 wrote...

Reaper IFF done in under 10 minutes with only Tech Armor and guns.

Watch and tell me Cryo Blast or Throw is more effective than Tech Armor.

On husks with exposed health? yes it is.
Would I rather have CB or Throw as a bonus talent over Tech Armor? no.

But you could of made use of all your powers and made it through even faster I think.
Not that I didn't think the video wasn't awesome.
I loved how you bombed yourself with the explosive crates in the video and ran around the scions. It shows off Tech Armor, Christina would love this video I think.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 01 mars 2010 - 05:35 .

[Roxlimn]

SmilingMirror:



It certainly does. I think rumination888 just about maxxed his stuff there. He throws off a Warp or two when he feels comfortable, but he's saving his cool down for putting up Tech Armor, since his strat pretty much depends on letting the Husks blast it off him.

[Darnalak]

Heheh, yep, his video shows off what I was trying to explain in the guide. Husks are a joke to a Sentinel, and to a lesser extent so are scions.

[SmilingMirror]

Eh, with the cooldown upgrades and guardian its like a 1.5 seconds of cooldown for throw or cb. I can understand if its not his style but you were playing rather risky already.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 01 mars 2010 - 05:49 .

[Darnalak]

I use 'em all the only power I try to downplay is Warp... Everyone knows how to use that one I like showing off throw, cryo, and most of all, the assault armor explosion .

[jgomezish]

Beat the game on insanity with my "canon" Shepard with this build thanks a lot.

[Darnalak]

Glad to hear it helped! Which build did you use? The Assault or the Tactical build?

[rumination888]

SmilingMirror wrote...

On husks with exposed health? yes it is.
Would I rather have CB or Throw as a bonus talent over Tech Armor? no.

But you could of made use of all your powers and made it through even faster I think.
Not that I didn't think the video wasn't awesome.
I loved how you bombed yourself with the explosive crates in the video and ran around the scions. It shows off Tech Armor, Christina would love this video I think.

On husks with exposed health, Tech Armor is still better. The scions break my Tech Armor, which in turn, damage the husks around me. Remember, Tech Armor will kill husks with ~25% or less armor in 1 shot.

I wasn't going for a speedrun, btw. If I wanted to go faster specifically for the Reaper IFF, i'd swap out squad warp ammo for tungsten ammo, switch to blood dragon armor, and taken shotgun training(i actually don't like shotgun training for a Sentinel, as it would only be better than the assault rifle on the Reaper IFF and nowhere else).

[SmilingMirror]

Whatever.



Assuming that Tech Armor is still the more efficient of the two, i'd have to allow myself to actually lose shields on purpose to take husks out. cryo blast allows me to save my tech armor.



My point: CB can serve a purpose.

[rumination888]

SmilingMirror wrote...

Whatever.

Assuming that Tech Armor is still the more efficient of the two, i'd have to allow myself to actually lose shields on purpose to take husks out. cryo blast allows me to save my tech armor.

My point: CB can serve a purpose.

You can't use CB unless you plan on shooting husks instead of scions.

My point: the only purpose CB serves is if you find it fun

[SmilingMirror]

Well i guess we will have to assume one of us is mistaken about cryo blasts usefulness then. I'll just have to leave it at that.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 02 mars 2010 - 08:23 .

[Roxlimn]

rumination888:



That's a pointless qualifier. We all play the game because we find it fun. The game could enable a single "auto-win" button and it would be the fastest, most efficient way to win the game, but no one would use it unless they just want to redo all the convos over and over.



Tech Armor isn't necessarily better than Throw. It's faster than Throw, but better? Depends on what parameters you're using. If you're taking out Husks with a Sniper Rifle at range and then Throwing them, then Tech Armor is pretty much useless.

[rumination888]

I will only reply to you just this once because I normally ignore your posts.

@Roxlimn
I thought game guides were meant to help players utilize the most effective means at beating the game. I did not realize they were meant to show people how to have fun. My mistake.

[Roxlimn]

rumination888:



It's an understandable mistake. One does get the impression, sometimes, that these videos are meant for trophy purposes and bragging. No one needs that. Certainly, I don't get a whole lot of fun watching someone else brag about pointless accomplishments.



The purpose of class builds and these threads is to help people have more fun with the game, by showing them options and ways to play that they might not have considered. By doing so, we engender love of the game and more fun is had by everyone.



Efficacy only matters up to a point - and that point is where you're beating the difficulty level you choose as most fun for you. Past that, it's just pointless overkill. In your video showing Assault Armor, you're doing a lot of weird crap that puts you in danger. It's very exciting, and it does show the point, but is it "better" than using a Sniper Rifle and Throw?



It depends on what your parameters are. If you're not after speed, then what's the point of rushing up and getting yourself surrounded by Husks? You're good enough to know how Scions behave, how to avoid Shockwaves at close range, and how not to get surrounded by Husks to the point where they're stunlocking you, but those are ALL skills extraneous to Tech Armor's strong suit. It showcases YOUR skill almost more than it does Tech Armor.



What good does that do for a game guide? We're supposed to be helping newbies, not bragging about how good we are.



AverageGatsby's featured videos are useful because they show no great skill and because they showcase very common situations in the game, handled with easy-to-use pointers and skills. They allow most people who view them to replicate what AverageGatsby is doing. That's the best thing a game guide can do - actually guide people into playing the game so as to have fun.

[thisisme8]

I have to agree with Roxlimn on 1 point... Rumination888 could take AI Hacking and a Red Ryder BB gun to a Collector fight and kick more ass than I could with any set-up.

[Roxlimn]

thisisme8:



Heck, he could take a Soldier, NOT SHOOT ANYTHING, and still get through the Suicide Mission. In a way, that's a damning thing for an instructor. You don't ask Thorpe to give basic swimming lessons to summer school kids. Half the time, he'd just expect them to just know how to swim in the first place. After all, it's sooo natural, isn't it?

[rumination888]

You are under the impression that I am a good twitch player.
I am not. Unless you count ME1, I haven't played an FPS since Quake 2. Infact, i hate FPS games.
I am HORRIBLE at twitch games.

What I am good at that I will proudly admit, is that I understand the easier routes and better abilities to finish a mission/goal/fight/whatever. You think its easier using a sniper rifle and tossing a throw than what I did in the Reaper IFF? I think holding the aim button and connecting a shot takes more skill than moving around like a chicken with its head cut off, which is exactly what I did in my video.

[thisisme8]

rumination888 wrote...

You are under the impression that I am a good twitch player.
I am not. Unless you count ME1, I haven't played an FPS since Quake 2. Infact, i hate FPS games.
I am HORRIBLE at twitch games.

What I am good at that I will proudly admit, is that I understand the easier routes and better abilities to finish a mission/goal/fight/whatever. You think its easier using a sniper rifle and tossing a throw than what I did in the Reaper IFF? I think holding the aim button and connecting a shot takes more skill than moving around like a chicken with its head cut off, which is exactly what I did in my video.

I stand by my statement.  You've posted way too many vids to convince me otherwise.

I'm also not a twitch player, look at any of my videos and my aim is everywhere.  I still love me some ME though.

[Roxlimn]

rumination888:



I suppose it's a matter of perspective. I'm not that good at twitch shooting, but I have no problems lining up a shot with a Sniper Rifle to the body of a Husk at range. Throw is auto-aim, so no great skill there, either.



In your vid, you are most definitely NOT moving around like a chicken with its head cut off. You rushed past parts of the game in order to trigger turning off spawn points, and you knew where best to take on Husks without being overwhelmed and stunlocked when your Tech Armor was off (that actually happened to me once). You knew to save for Tech Armor rather than using your cool down with other powers, and you had no problems switching from AR to Pistol to SMG. You rarely got caught on a stun from a Scion attack and in all of those cases, you were not subsequently mobbed by Husks.



Your route may have been easy for you, but having done that exact same style of play with the exact same class, I can assure you that it's not easy for everyone, particularly me. I found Sniping with Throw better, and more to the point, doable - and that's really all you need to finish a mission, right? What's one got over the other? Speed? I suppose that's a good thing if you want a faster run for some reason.

[Average Gatsby]

I've been reading this thread for a bit, and I see there's a discussion on Cryo VS Armor on husks. I used my Assault Sentinel, when I was playing with it, very similarly to how rumination888 plays on the Reaper IFF mission.

I'd say that Assault Armor is without a doubt the prefered method of taking out husks, if (and its a big if) you have the chance to quickly re-engage the tech shield (not saying it has to be all the way cooled but at least close enough). The key word though is Assault, because as rumination888 points out, it does not insignificant damage, so targets can have a bit of armor left over and still be knocked out.

He's using Assault Armor exactly how it was designed; to be tactically destroyed to maximize further kills with guns/abilities.

Only thing different I would do in a guide video is carry out each fight in the intended place, but in the commentary let people know that it was possible to run past the areas and trigger spawns. 

Now with power armor, which isn't forgiving when your shields go down nor does it do much damage at all, would not be as effective as CB vs husks. Possible, yes, but not nearly as effective.

I pretty much agree with the OP 100% on CB: all or nothing. I actually agree with almost all of the OP.

Modifié par Average Gatsby, 02 mars 2010 - 09:33 .

[rumination888]

Roxlimn wrote...

rumination888:

I suppose it's a matter of perspective. I'm not that good at twitch shooting, but I have no problems lining up a shot with a Sniper Rifle to the body of a Husk at range. Throw is auto-aim, so no great skill there, either.

In your vid, you are most definitely NOT moving around like a chicken with its head cut off. You rushed past parts of the game in order to trigger turning off spawn points, and you knew where best to take on Husks without being overwhelmed and stunlocked when your Tech Armor was off (that actually happened to me once). You knew to save for Tech Armor rather than using your cool down with other powers, and you had no problems switching from AR to Pistol to SMG. You rarely got caught on a stun from a Scion attack and in all of those cases, you were not subsequently mobbed by Husks.

Your route may have been easy for you, but having done that exact same style of play with the exact same class, I can assure you that it's not easy for everyone, particularly me. I found Sniping with Throw better, and more to the point, doable - and that's really all you need to finish a mission, right? What's one got over the other? Speed? I suppose that's a good thing if you want a faster run for some reason.

Rushing past parts to turn off spawn points = me knowing an easier route. You can't tell me pressing forward is hard to emulate.
I've gotten stunlocked from husks plenty of times in that video. Escaping is possible because Tech Armor staggers them allowing you to escape. That shows I know how to use a better ability.
I didn't know when to save for Tech Armor. I basically only used Tech Armor throughout the entire thing. I only tossed a Warp when there was 1 scion up and no husks near me. Does that really take good twitch skills to emulate?
I switched from AR to Pistol to SMG because I ran out of ammo. Its kind of hard not to switch weapons when the game does it for you automatically.

Modifié par rumination888, 02 mars 2010 - 09:40 .

[Roxlimn]

rumination888:



As thisisme says, your video speaks for itself. There really is no need for me to add anything. You say you're not showcasing a skillful run of the IFF mission. Your video is saying otherwise. I'm not telling you what I think. I'm telling you which way the wind is blowing.



A player can finish that run of IFF with Throw. AverageGatsby shows how this might be done. Whichever is "better" depends on what you mean by "better." Easier? That's a matter of perspective. I found Throw easier. More fun? Eh.



It's a nice demo of the Assault Armor power. Let's just leave it at that, 'kay?

[rumination888]

If you think doing something different takes skill, then there really isnt much more to say.

[DragoonKain3]

For cryo vs assault armor against husks, assault armor all the way. It was built in mind to deal with melee enemies after all; it's the reason why I get it before Throw Field.

Now the only problem with this is that you should know who and what you're up against. Which for experienced players shouldn't be too hard to abuse, but those new to the game should stick to longer range fights and only use assault as a last resort. It would suck abusing assault on husks only to find out that they're reinforced by gun firing collectors, and now you're 10+ metres away from cover...

Arhka wrote...

Overload isn't useless on organics, it overheats weapons too.

It should be obvious that was a hyperbole.

In any case, the point still stands. Given the chance between overloading an organic to overheat their weapon, or reaving them to do damage them, disable ALL their movement, get bonus damage against them, and get health back, which would you choose?

Heck, even I'd rather shoot the guy with incendiary ammo than overload their weapon. Or set-up Warp Explosion with a teammate. Or heck, 2x throw the enemy.

Only reason to keep Overload is you're going to play New Game Insanity+, as you don't have access to retraining until past Horizon.

Modifié par DragoonKain3, 02 mars 2010 - 03:19 .