86 réponses à ce sujet

[SleeplessInSigil]

Enough is enough.



How many WRPGs are there that are NOT based off Tolkienesque and/or Medieval-European themes?

Are there ANY Fantasy-WRPGs that do NOT have Elves and Dwarves and Orcs and Dragons or some thinly-veiled variation thereof?

Is there ANY WRPG character-system that does not draw a substantial influence from Dungeons & Dragons?




Honestly, the hypocrisy shown here by some of the [recent] fans of BioWare or Dragon Age against JRPGs is just appalling.



JRPGs on the whole are more original and innovative, as Final Fantasy alone, just one JRPG series, has a different world and mythos in almost every installment, not counting the brand-icons such as chocobos or Moogles and other crap like that.

Moreover, most JRPGs have wildly-different Character-Statistics and Rules systems, sometimes within the same series, and those work well for the game in question, unlike WRPGs where even games with a clear intention of breaking apart from the D&D paradigm, only end up being a clone of it at best, such as in Dragon Age.






Disclaimer: I like WRPGs too and have practically never quite really played a single Final Fantasy game.

Modifié par SleeplessInSigil, 28 février 2010 - 10:45 .

[Baracuda6977]

wrpg games sell to the west, i could argue that its a thinly vieled story or white poeple, the lesser people that are sort of white and dwarfs going out to kill the green people or abominations against gods will



dragons are just awesome though



its a formula that works, like pokemon

[Armchairsquid]

all rpgs are the same west or east, good vs evil no matter how you play it you end up as a hero thats why we love them so much.

Modifié par Armchairsquid, 27 février 2010 - 11:35 .

[SleeplessInSigil]

[moved to original post]

Modifié par SleeplessInSigil, 28 février 2010 - 01:44 .

[Baracuda6977]

if any WRPG tried to break away from the "this army is invading us, cus of a super bad guy" plot line, it would blur into JRPG and limit player choices because they have to pick a motivator that any player would choose. in a JRPG, the main character can go after the one he loves because he is his own persona, not the one you made for him



imo, the labeling between WRPG and JRPG is polorizing the genre and they dont want to take ideas from each other for fear of being branded as the other since players only play one or the other mostly

[Loerwyn]

Fail troll is fail.

Had to be said...



P.S. Fallout.

[Busomjack]

Nothing in JRPGs is original, just random. People with huge swords jumping 30 feet in the air and plunging into giant mechs creating nuclear explosions doesn't make any sense. JRPG writers just pull whatever idea they can from their asses and think that so long as they polish it up with dazzling CGI cutscenes and scantily clad underage girls it will enamor the minds of 14 year olds and 35 year old virgins everywhere.

The whole Tolkien esque fantasy theme is not particularly original but it's all about execution and writing. So long as the characters are likable and the narrative is solid I don't mind seeing a story told in a familiar setting.

Also, Deus Ex.

Modifié par Busomjack, 28 février 2010 - 12:56 .

[Baracuda6977]

since when did Random != Original?



and since when did MAGIC make sense? dont complain about JRPG physics and cling to ridiculous WRPG crap because of 'execution and writing' , , , and since when did JRPGs have bad 'execution and writing'?



it's a different culture that delivers their stories in a less realistic, but more impressionistic fashion. that teenage boy with a permanent bad hairdo jumping 30 feet to kill a mech with a giant sword is supposed to be a teenage boy (too hard to explain that) with a radical personality that is holding the power of hope or truth or whatever to fight the 'machine' that is trying to destroy his world.



those kinds of arguments people make ****** me off

[Armchairsquid]

why does it matter so much which one east or west has the bigger penis i like them both for different reasons.

[drunken pyromaniac]

Fallout, Mass Effect, Jade Empire, Morrowind all have little to no references to Tolkien in them; WRPGs all.

[Godak]

Armchairsquid wrote...

why does it matter so much which one east or west has the bigger penis i like them both for different reasons.

Oh, boy...That sentence can be misconstrued in so many different ways!

[SleeplessInSigil]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

P.S. Fallout.

1.

Busomjack wrote...

Also, Deus Ex.

2.



KoTOR. 3.

Mass Effect. 4.

System Shock? 5. You need it.

1 hand. What else?

[SleeplessInSigil]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Fallout, Mass Effect, Jade Empire, Morrowind all have little to no references to Tolkien in them; WRPGs all.

Morrowind, The Elder Scrolls; heavily Medieval-European themes. with Elves. Tolkien.

Jade Empire; a WRPG based around stereotypical Western views of the "East."

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Fail troll is fail.

And that's about the best argument you could come up for in the defense of WRPGs.

Next.

Modifié par SleeplessInSigil, 28 février 2010 - 01:38 .

[Armchairsquid]

Godak wrote...

Armchairsquid wrote...

why does it matter so much which one east or west has the bigger penis i like them both for different reasons.

Oh, boy...That sentence can be misconstrued in so many different ways!

I dont know what you mean

[Armchairsquid]

SleeplessInSigil wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Fallout, Mass Effect, Jade Empire, Morrowind all have little to no references to Tolkien in them; WRPGs all.

Morrowind, The Elder Scrolls; heavily Medieval-European themes. with Elves. Tolkien.

Jade Empire; a WRPG based around stereotypical Western views of the "East."

Next.

Wow you really hate WRPGs do you work for Square by any chance:devil:

[SleeplessInSigil]

Armchairsquid wrote...

Wow you really hate WRPGs do you work for Square by any chance:devil:

I don't hate anything except double-standards.

I've never really played a single Final Fantasy either.

[Loerwyn]

SleeplessInSigil wrote...
And that's about the best argument you could come up for in the defense of WRPGs.
Next.

Woohoo, success!

[Godak]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

SleeplessInSigil wrote...
And that's about the best argument you could come up for in the defense of WRPGs.
Next.

Woohoo, success!

We win! Yippee!

[killergrapefruit]

Opinionated thread is opinionated.

[Ryzaki]

Okay this is a stupid thread. And 2. No one playing BioWare games should let the words "not original" be a reason for bashing a game. Seriously. 3 words: BioWare cliche chart. now all of you can STFU. Both sides are equally annoying and all groups have their originality and unoriginality.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 février 2010 - 01:45 .

[SleeplessInSigil]

killergrapefruit wrote...

Opinionated thread is opinionated.

On the contrary, it's pretty objective. Do prove it wrong, by all means. 

[Fexelea]

I think this thread has popped up because there were some people "hoping that FF XII fails in US" and "Jrpgs are immature" (In Wrpg music thread) etc.



I like both takes. I do not think that Jrpgs are random. There are cultural references and sub-culture jokes hidden behind what seems like random design choices. The amusingly cute enemies, the unweildy swords, even the spiky hair all reference aspects of the real Japan, just as the enchanted runic armor references aspects of real medieval times.



It is probably because the references are so engrained in our respective cultures that we cannot see sense in the other. Japanese gamers find Wrpgs monotonous. Western gamers find Jrpgs random. When in truth both are creative and imaginative takes on our societies and what makes a protagonist. There is no need for all the hate either way.

[Baracuda6977]

this is when being a redneck otaku pays off

[Arbiter Libera]

Busomjack wrote...

Nothing in JRPGs is original, just random. People with huge swords jumping 30 feet in the air and plunging into giant mechs creating nuclear explosions doesn't make any sense. JRPG writers just pull whatever idea they can from their asses and think that so long as they polish it up with dazzling CGI cutscenes and scantily clad underage girls it will enamor the minds of 14 year olds and 35 year old virgins everywhere.

This. JRPGs aren't original, they're just a hodge-podge of random elements mixed into the same pot with varying amounts of each element in every game. If I was asked, I'd say that main problem that plagues JRPG as a genre (besides it being archaic in almost every part) is that it's games really do not have a firm identity - always random, yet repeatable, ideas mixed in with some latest fashion to appeal to... I don't know, fashion conscious players? Seriously, what's with all the belts.

SleeplessInSigil wrote...

Morrowind, The Elder Scrolls; heavily Medieval-European themes. with Elves. Tolkien.

Oh no you didn't. Seriously, Morrowind? THE poster child that western RPG makers CAN create a non-generic setting?
You've shamed your hard working troll family. They have no son.

Modifié par Arbiter Libera, 28 février 2010 - 01:57 .

[odinn93]

Nobody really cares that WRPGs aren´t original. I sure as hell wouldn´t like to play a medieval fantasy game where I´m a fluffy rat trying to stop a six-legged pony by shooting cotton balls out of my mouth, or a futuristic RPG where I´m a balloon traveling across the galaxy in a shoebox and reaching FTL speeds by having a giant boot kick me in the right direction.