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[Arwyl]

On combat dynamics and tactics in ME and ME 2: (by a combat-impaired gamer)

Just so you know where I'm coming from: I've played quite a few RPGs and no proper shooters at all. The closest thing to a shooter I've ever played are the first 3 Tomb Raider games. I totally suck at real time combat: it's too fast paced for me and I just don't manage to walk/run, aim and shoot at the same time. That's why I'm infinitely grateful for the possibility to pause combat and choose my tactics, aim properly or just catch my breath for a moment while I decide on my next move. I've been abusing the space bar profusely through both ME and ME 2 (I play the PC version). I'm afraid that's why I never noticed the improved combat dynamics in ME 2: I keep breaking those dynamics all the time by pausing the combat so I can actually think.

That said, this playing style works fine for me: I've almost completed my second playthrough of ME on the hardcore difficulty setting playing as an engineer and I'm not finding it particularly challenging. I'm actually looking forward to my 3rd playthrough on insanity. The reason I'm doing so well despite my total lack of eye-hand coordination is because I use lots of tactics: I think carefully about what powers I use against what enemies and I choose, equip and position my squad mates thoughtfully according to each particular challenge. So I have to disagree with the people that say that combat in ME isn't tactical. To me, it was more tactical than in ME 2, as I got to fine-tune my squad's strengths better with customised equipment and at level-up, by choosing carefully which of my squaddie's skills I wanted to develop. If it weren't for tactics, I'd be dying/getting my squad mates killed all the time in ME, but thanks to my tactical decisions this doesn't happen very often.
 
I am fully aware that being real-time-combat-impaired is my handicap and that's it's preventing me from appreciating the better combat dynamics in ME 2. But here's a thought: maybe being very good at aiming and shooting fast moving enemies is preventing some from appreciating the subtler tactical aspects involved in ME combat?

[Lumikki]

Vena_86 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

People expected....

When people get disapointed, because they expected something different, they become bitter and hostile. How ever, it was they own fault to build expetitions what wasn't fullfilled. Interesting will be, does people make same mistake with ME3, expecting and making assumptions or just take the game as what it is and play it. I my self like both ME1 and ME2. Both has positive stuff and negative. How ever, it's more like everyones personal taste, do they like these ME serie games.

That would be true for Mass Effect 1 or Dragon Age:Origins or Baldurs Gate 1 or KotoR 1....
Mass Effect 2 is a S E Q U E L. Ofcourse people have expectations. The most common expectation is that it continues the same type of game, with more content and improvements. Ofcourse people are disappointed when so many core elements are removed and the whole focus of the game is directed elsewhere.
Hey, my favourite pizza place now only sells tofu. Thats sucks, but then again its my own fault to have expectations...

Yeah, but more like player expected it to go some direction, but insted it did go the other direction. Then got disapointed.

To Make this easyer to understand, I use invented examples:

ME1 = 60% RPG + 40% Shooter
ME2 = 40% RPG + 60% Shooter

Now everyone who likes more RPG side, is disapointed to ME2, because they own taste of game and they expection what next sequel of game should be. The balance got shifted, but that doesn't make game wost in general, just differently balaced and worst for RPG ONLY players.

Modifié par Lumikki, 23 mai 2010 - 02:04 .

[Ecael]

Grammarye wrote...

Ecael wrote...
Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2? I thought that was the whole point of combat. Unless you use armor mods to make you or your squad nearly invincible (which is kind of cheap) or disregard and abuse the cover mechanic and instead standing or crouching in places that let you fire back without retaliation (also cheap).

Whilst I'll try not to put words in Terror K's mouth, I think you're missing the point. It's not that cover is bad. It's that ME2 took a specific game mechanic and used it everywhere. Need to avoid that mech? Take cover! Need to regen? Take cover! Need to not get shot? Take cover! Want to know if combat is coming up? Take cover!

Cover is fine. Taking one cover mechanism and copy-pasting that across the entire game as the primary means of proceeding with combat, with few if any alternatives, is the bone of contention, I believe. People should be competent enough with shooters these days to find their own cover (or, in an ideal world, make their own) that we shouldn't be able to spot combat a mile away because of all these handy bits & pieces to hide behind. If you look at how ME1 handled cover, sure, you could take cover, but there were also plenty of wide open spaces where you just had to run and hope, or get caught in an open cross-fire. It felt more life-like that there were points where you could just do something stupid like run across an open room and die because you'd missed the two snipers lining up on you.

Except Mass Effect 1 also had rooms full of empty blocks and crates stacked up to the ceiling for you to take cover. In my case, I never used cover for the reason that certain abilities and squadmates make them become moving brick walls on Insanity after a few upgrades.

ME1:
-Combat? Spam Immunity, Barrier and Shield Boost.
-Don't have Immunity/Barrier? Have Ashley and Wrex spam it and send them in.
-Shoot stuff.

ME2:
-Combat? Take cover.
-Don't have cover? Find cover.
-Shoot stuff.

Of course, there's enemies in both games that will discourage staying in cover or just standing around, but in ME2 it's passed over as either a cheap or a boring mechanic.

ME1: Combat nullifying cover! Thorian Creepers in Feros, Geth Destroyers, Geth Sappers, charging krogan, rachni workers, varren and exploding Husks everywhere else? Brilliant opportunity to use strategy and abilities in a shooter-hybrid RPG.

ME2: Combat nullifying cover! Armored husks, enemy combat drones, flashbang grenades, Geth Destroyers, abominations, varren, FENRIS mechs, charging krogan, klixen, Harbinger flame nova, Scion shockwave, and Harbinger slow bolt spam? Stupid ubiquitous cover-system in a shooter-HYBRID RPG.

People seem to apply different standards to both games, yet most of the mechanics are still the same.

I wonder if anyone's posted on how Mass Effect 2's codex is inferior yet.

[KitsuneRommel]

Grammarye wrote...

[*]Lack of proper PC porting (compare Demiurge's effort with Bioware's) - just as one example, even Demiurge managed a J key for loading the Journal...
[*]Over-reliance on Paragon vs Renegade (ME1 had this too, but it got amplified dramatically in ME2). An incredibly large number of P vs R decisions aren't about hero vs jerk, and to extrapolate NPC behaviour on that one meter just doesn't work. I had responses from NPCs where I thought 'my character isn't like that at all' - particularly Samara. Neither does limiting key choices based on that counter work well. My character's past behaviour is not a measure of their ability to resolve a situation. You end up feeling like you're forced to be a jerk or hero to gain points, instead of playing the game your way.
[*]Loading screens, especially for moving from area to area that I can... actually walk to?! Surely we can do something better in a modern age of gaming? It really breaks immersion.

1. But the ME1 PC port is otherwise horrible.
2. True. But damn I'm glad I don't have to waste points on Charm/Intimidate in ME2. It's kind of strange how you can be a total a-hole to people in ME1 and still only rarely you get renegade points.
3. Can I have a seamless world please? A simple stroll from the galaxy map to Ashley
[*]

LOADING

LOADING (for some reason doesn't show on the picture though.

Modifié par KitsuneRommel, 23 mai 2010 - 01:52 .

[spacehamsterZH]

Arwyl wrote...

So I have to disagree with the people that say that combat in ME isn't tactical. To me, it was more tactical than in ME 2, as I got to fine-tune my squad's strengths better with customised equipment and at level-up, by choosing carefully which of my squaddie's skills I wanted to develop. If it weren't for tactics, I'd be dying/getting my squad mates killed all the time in ME, but thanks to my tactical decisions this doesn't happen very often.

Hearing this from an RPG fan who doesn't play shooters truly warms my black little heart. Thank you, and I think you're absolutely right. Unfortunately, the you-know-whos will completely ignore this and instead continue to argue about their hallucinations.

[KitsuneRommel]

Arwyl wrote...

To me, it was more tactical than in ME 2, as I got to fine-tune my squad's strengths better with customised equipment and at level-up, by choosing carefully which of my squaddie's skills I wanted to develop. If it weren't for tactics, I'd be dying/getting my squad mates killed all the time in ME, but thanks to my tactical decisions this doesn't happen very often.

Yup. Very tactical. I've equipped everyone with Spectre weapons and armor mods with health regen if they don't have it from class skill (ok enough with the sarcasm). I'm now at a point where I can pretty much rotate lift and singularity and enemies can't do anything. And this is on insanity. Ashley and Tali have maximised their most important skills and the only choice really was if I wanted Ashley to use pistols and shotguns or assault rifles and sniper rifles.

[Grammarye]

Ecael wrote...

Except Mass Effect 1 also had rooms full of empty blocks and crates stacked up to the ceiling for you to take cover. In my case, I never used cover for the reason that certain abilities and squadmates make them become moving brick walls on Insanity after a few upgrades.

ME1:
-Combat? Spam Immunity, Barrier and Shield Boost.
-Don't have Immunity/Barrier? Have Ashley and Wrex spam it and send them in.
-Shoot stuff.

ME2:
-Combat? Take cover.
-Don't have cover? Find cover.
-Shoot stuff.

Of course, there's enemies in both games that will discourage staying in cover or just standing around, but in ME2 it's passed over as either a cheap or a boring mechanic.

ME1: Combat nullifying cover! Thorian Creepers in Feros, Geth Destroyers, Geth Sappers, charging krogan, rachni workers, varren and exploding Husks everywhere else? Brilliant opportunity to use strategy and abilities in a shooter-hybrid RPG.

ME2: Combat nullifying cover! Armored husks, enemy combat drones, flashbang grenades, Geth Destroyers, abominations, varren, FENRIS mechs, charging krogan, klixen, Harbinger flame nova, Scion shockwave, and Harbinger slow bolt spam? Stupid ubiquitous cover-system in a shooter-HYBRID RPG.

People seem to apply different standards to both games, yet most of the mechanics are still the same.

You make a good case, but I'd argue the reasoning behind the focus on cover in ME2 vs the more flexible yet perhaps overpowered powers in ME1 is that the scale of ME1 gave a lot more to work with. In ME2 not once do you step outside into an area large enough that focusing on an enemy with a sniper rifle is difficult, or traverse an area under fire to get close enough to use a shotgun, where you have enough room to really exploit the area's tactical opportunities. Perhaps I'm unusual in that I fought in my suit in a lot of places where people could just use the Mako (in ME1 it granted greater XP to do so). Sure, ME1 had rooms full of cover, but it also didn't have rooms full of cover. ME2 only has the former.

Equally I'd argue I found very few cases in ME2 where the enemies really did make me work for cover, but perhaps my experience over two playthroughs has just been unlucky. A lot of your examples do throw Shepard out of cover briefly, but one keypress later and you're back into cover. Contrast that with, say, a firefight in the Cerberus labs in ME1, and standing still tended to have the effect of the enemies running right past you in cover to behind you. They just don't seem to do that in ME2, prefering themselves to take cover and get shot, giving you far more time to set up.

So with respect, I don't think it's about applying different standards, but perhaps applying different environments to the same mechanic. The cover system is essentially the same, yet in ME2 it seems to be far more heavily used & favoured, and I think to the detriment of alternatives. Equally, just because ME1 had flaws as well doesn't excuse ME2 - one would hope these games improve on themselves, rather than just do the same.

KitsuneRommel wrote...
Yup. Very tactical. I've equipped
everyone with Spectre weapons and armor mods with health regen if they
don't have it from class skill (ok enough with the sarcasm). I'm now at a
point where I can pretty much rotate lift and singularity and enemies
can't do anything. And this is on insanity. Ashley and Tali have
maximised their most important skills and the only choice really was if
I wanted Ashley to use pistols and shotguns or assault rifles and sniper
rifles.

That a concept turned out to be overpowered in its implementation doesn't change that it's a good concept. At the risk of continuing the above issue about cover, ME2 relies heavily on cover and that's about it. ME1 allowed you to more finely tune your combat experience by at least giving you options in how to approach your squad, tailor their equipment, and so on. That it went too far doesn't change that it offered more tactical opportunities. Focus on the early experiences where you didn't have all the great gear, rather than the point by which you definitely were overpowered.

Modifié par Grammarye, 23 mai 2010 - 02:15 .

[bjdbwea]

Terror_K wrote...

Sorry, but ME2's combat is generally tedious and repetitive. Run forward, take cover in obvious ambush zone filled with waist-high barriers, take out wave of enemies, move on, rise and repeat. What it needs to do is use combat for more than just simple, samey combat. If you're going to take a page out of Gears of War's book at least explore it fully instead of just repeating the first paragraph over and over.

This. The combat in ME 2 may look "cooler", and the controls on consoles may be better (on PC they are most certainly not). But I also quickly found it tedious and repetitive. Combat in ME 2 is quite two dimensional. You can sit behind cover forever and kill the enemies one at a time. The only dimensions you move are up and down, and maybe left or right. In fact that's pretty much the only strategy. Only with enemies who do advance, do you sometimes have to change your
point of cover.

Plus, ME 1 was more challenging. Shepard couldn't just shrug off a direct hit from a missile or a sniper, it meant reloading your game. And Krogans were the challenge they are supposed to be, in ME 2 they are just cannon fodder too.

The standard response to this is "b-but you were invincible in ME 1". No, you were not. Play the game on highest difficulty, and look how it plays at least in the beginning, when you don't have the skills maximized yet. Of course you're stronger later on, that's how an RPG should work.

[Arwyl]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Yup. Very tactical. I've equipped everyone with Spectre weapons and armor mods with health regen if they don't have it from class skill (ok enough with the sarcasm). I'm now at a point where I can pretty much rotate lift and singularity and enemies can't do anything. And this is on insanity. Ashley and Tali have maximised their most important skills and the only choice really was if I wanted Ashley to use pistols and shotguns or assault rifles and sniper rifles.

There's a whole lot of stuff to do before you get Spectre weapons. And even after that, unless you keep going to the Citadel just to shop at C-Sec, there aren't enough Spectre weapons to equip everyone. I've role-played ME to the point of deciding that Wrex would choose a more damaging weapon over a more accurate one, that Garrus would love an accurate Sniper Rifle with brilliant Combat Optics, not caring about overheating since his ability would allow him to take out enemies with just one shot, and that Kaidan would treasure his pistols as collectibles, to the point of stubbornly sticking to a rare Stiletto when there were better weapons available to choose from. Ok, admittedly, the latter has nothing to do with tactics (but a lot to do with RPGing). I deeply missed both of these aspects in ME 2.

[KitsuneRommel]

Grammarye wrote...

That a concept turned out to be overpowered in its implementation doesn't change that it's a good concept. At the risk of continuing the above issue about cover, ME2 relies heavily on cover and that's about it. ME1 allowed you to more finely tune your combat experience by at least giving you options in how to approach your squad, tailor their equipment, and so on. That it went too far doesn't change that it offered more tactical opportunities. Focus on the early experiences where you didn't have all the great gear, rather than the point by which you definitely were overpowered.

I'd say it's mostly because you CAN'T just stand in the open in ME2. In ME1 you can easily take on Geth Colossi by simply strafing around them. If the enemies were more lethal in ME1 you'd be forced to use cover more.

[KitsuneRommel]

bjdbwea wrote...

Plus, ME 1 was more challenging. Shepard couldn't just shrug off a direct hit from a missile or a sniper, it meant reloading your game. And Krogans were the challenge they are supposed to be, in ME 2 they are just cannon fodder too.

Seriously? You CAN shrug off a direct hit from a missle or a sniper even as an adept! Just use the Barrier. Krogans? Lift, Singlarity, Throw, Stasis.

[KitsuneRommel]

Arwyl wrote...

There's a whole lot of stuff to do before you get Spectre weapons. And even after that, unless you keep going to the Citadel just to shop at C-Sec, there aren't enough Spectre weapons to equip everyone.

I bought a sniper rifle for me at level 20-24 or so. Since that time I've bought 2 Spectre pistols, 1 Spectre assault rifle, 1 Spectre shotgun and 1 more Spectre sniper rifle.

I get what you say about roleplaying though Mass Effect doesn't really give you options with that. That's like playing a fighter who wears leather armor. Works in some game systems but not in most.

[A_y0ner_]

I absolutely agree with the poster who wrote that ME2 combat's relied too heavily on waist high square cover systems. It didn't feel real or authentic at all and got stale in a hurry.



Another thing that felt too forced was the whole loyalty missions premise. In ME1, when you help out Garrus and Wrex, it felt REAL. Like I was really helpin out a buddy. In ME2 it just became to forced down our throats. Yeah, they're *optional* but who the hell is'nt going to play them? They just get so blatant and so, "oh you need help? What a surprise"-ish.

[KitsuneRommel]

A_y0ner_ wrote...

Another thing that felt too forced was the whole loyalty missions premise. In ME1, when you help out Garrus and Wrex, it felt REAL. Like I was really helpin out a buddy. In ME2 it just became to forced down our throats. Yeah, they're *optional* but who the hell is'nt going to play them? They just get so blatant and so, "oh you need help? What a surprise"-ish.

You didn't feel anything when you rescued the Archangel?

[Arwyl]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

A_y0ner_ wrote...

Another thing that felt too forced was the whole loyalty missions premise. In ME1, when you help out Garrus and Wrex, it felt REAL. Like I was really helpin out a buddy. In ME2 it just became to forced down our throats. Yeah, they're *optional* but who the hell is'nt going to play them? They just get so blatant and so, "oh you need help? What a surprise"-ish.

You didn't feel anything when you rescued the Archangel?

That was a brilliant plot twist, but that was indeed his recruiting mission, not his forced "Okay, so what is it that you want from me?" - loyalty quest.

[A_y0ner_]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

A_y0ner_ wrote...

Another thing that felt too forced was the whole loyalty missions premise. In ME1, when you help out Garrus and Wrex, it felt REAL. Like I was really helpin out a buddy. In ME2 it just became to forced down our throats. Yeah, they're *optional* but who the hell is'nt going to play them? They just get so blatant and so, "oh you need help? What a surprise"-ish.

You didn't feel anything when you rescued the Archangel?

My problem was that the whole premise of the game, recruiting people and then doing a loyalty mission, became too predictable and unauthentic. So even if it was an interesting and meaningful mission, it just didn't reach its full potential by just becoming so expected and so contrived.

[A_y0ner_]

I wanted to feel stronger about Garrus and his personal missions but when your playing a game where 11+ people are all going through the same thing, it just looses its importance.

[A_y0ner_]

sorry. double post.

Modifié par A_y0ner_, 23 mai 2010 - 03:30 .

[bjdbwea]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Seriously? You CAN shrug off a direct hit from a missle or a sniper even as an adept! Just use the Barrier. Krogans? Lift, Singlarity, Throw, Stasis.

Read the whole post next time? As I said:

The standard response to this is "b-but you were invincible in ME 1". No, you were not. Play the game on highest difficulty, and look how it plays at least in the beginning, when you don't have the skills maximized yet. Of course you're stronger later on, that's how an RPG should work.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 23 mai 2010 - 03:39 .

[KitsuneRommel]

bjdbwea wrote...

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Seriously? You CAN shrug off a direct hit from a missle or a sniper even as an adept! Just use the Barrier. Krogans? Lift, Singlarity, Throw, Stasis.

Read the whole post next time? As I said:

The standard response to this is "b-but you were invincible in ME 1". No, you were not. Play the game on highest difficulty, and look how it plays at least in the beginning, when you don't have the skills maximized yet. Of course you're stronger later on, that's how an RPG should work.

Even a rank 1 barrier is enough for a sniper shot. I should know since I only leveled it past one just a while ago. I maxed sniper rifles, adept, singularity, throw and intimidate before leveling it.

Modifié par KitsuneRommel, 23 mai 2010 - 03:43 .

[DSKzZziX]

masterthehero wrote...

I posted in the wrong thread, here are some thoughts I had for this discussion.

From playing through the game a few times, I feel that one of it's big problems is flow. Ever since they ditched the elevators for loading screens the entire game and how it was segmented became more obvious. For instance, in ME 1 you knew that with every new planet you found there would be a civilian hub, a mako sequence, a mission in enemy territory, and a return to the hub. All of this flowed together and wasn't as OVERT in saying "Hey... combat is about to start over here." Driving in the Mako you felt like you were exploring to find this enemy base and when you did find the enemy base it felt more like trouble could catch you by surprise, rather than... oh look at all the crates must mean a battle sequence.

Etc...

You hit on many things that I picked up on when playing ME2, have a cookie!

[Arwyl]

Why ME 2 felt disappointing to me, Part 1.
 
I bought ME and ME 2 CE together. I started playing ME with a female soldier who later specialised as a shock-trooper. I chose to be a paragon because that's pretty much who I am: I'm pretty paragon-ish in real life too.

I had never ever gotten so immersed in a game before. I really lived in the ME universe. I was this soldier, this well-trained marine, proud to serve in the Alliance navy and committed to saving lives, human and alien alike. Everything felt right! The paragon dialogue choices were always satisfying and the voice acting was perfect. My background as a spacer and sole survivor of the tragedy in Akuze mattered and influenced the way other characters related to me. The Normandy felt like a real military ship, high tech but functional and devoid of unnecessary luxury. The vastness and sheer beauty of the Citadel filled me with awe every time I got there and I spent hours roaming and exploring all its locations and getting to know its very diverse citizens. I thought Kaidan was a cutie from the first moment I saw him sitting next to Joker during the opening scene, but I wasn't sure whether we'd hit it off, and I actually felt reluctant about getting involved with a man who fell directly under my chain of command. I was grateful for the slow pace of the romance, for the opportunity to get to know him better through conversation and on our missions together, before reaching the point where I didn't care about fraternization rules or the concerns of the rest of the crew enough to give up on Lt. Alenko anymore. I played through all of ME weighting each decision carefully. Sometimes I'd even save and stop playing for a while to think about the possible repercussions of my choices. What to do with the Rachni queen and whether or not to give the Cerberus data to the Shadow Broker kept me thinking and second-guessing for hours, even days after I'd made my decision, wondering if I'd made the right choice…
 
All the time I was playing ME, I couldn’t think of anything else. Going to work, sleeping and the rest of RL “chores” were painful, so badly I wanted to get back to the game and be Commander Shepard again. There were so many emotional moments that really touched me:
 
*SPOILERS*
I felt honoured and moved when I was made the first human Spectre. I felt the responsibility of command and the importance of my mission. I was amused by Ashley’s overt dislike of “what’s her name – Dr. T’Soni”. I was annoyed at times by Kaidan’s excessive care in choosing his words when speaking his mind. Captain Kirrahe’s speech sent actual chills down my spine on Virmire and I felt paralyzed when I realised I would have to leave Ashley behind, being painfully aware of the weight my feelings for Kaidan bore on that decision. I felt saddened by her death, even though she and I were very different women and hadn’t grown really close. I felt guilty for choosing Kaidan, even though I knew I couldn’t have made a different choice. I felt horror as the true nature of Cerberus’ experiments kept unfolding, especially after finding Toombes, whom I’d believed dead. I kept looking for Armistan Banes and wondering why Kahoku had to dye. I really wanted to help Tali return to the Migrant Fleet from her Pilgrimage with a gift worthy of her. I was deeply moved by Wrex’s loyalty and trust in me when I was forced to ask him to forego the cure for the genophage. I could go on and on, but I’ll skip to the end: having to sacrifice many lives to save the Council and the final battle, when it looked for a moment like I had died – Kaidan and Tali were with me, and I’ll never forget the looks on their faces – and then I emerged, limping but grinning… it brought very real tears to my eyes, which kept flowing as humanity was finally admitted into the Council.
*SPOILERS*
 
I don’t know what this game did to me and I’m not sure what it did to me was healthy, but it really gripped me and moved me to an extent like I had never experienced before in my whole RPGing life. That’s why my expectations were set so high when I installed and started playing ME 2.
 
Disappointment #1: technical issues. ME had handled fine on my PC, but I just couldn’t get the hang of the mouse control in ME 2. This was already noticeable while saving Joker in the prologue, but got really unbearable during the first few hostile encounters with the mechs at the Cerberus facility. I had to stop, go online and search through the forums to find the way to tweak the game so the whole world would stop spinning around me every time I slightly moved the mouse. I edited the Coalesced.ini file till my mouse felt normal again, only to find out that it still handled extremely awkward during the Bypass mini-game. I never got that completely right, but changing my mouse to a heavier, wireless one helped a little. After changing all the key bindings to what they had been in ME (why did they have to change that and why didn’t the tutorials acknowledge my changes???) I finally felt I could stop fumbling with the settings and just start enjoying the game.
 
To be continued…

[Iakus]

Lumikki wrote...

That's the hole problem here in forum, like you self say it so very well.

People expected....

When people get disapointed, because they expected something different, they become bitter and hostile. How ever, it was they own fault to build expetitions what wasn't fullfilled. Interesting will be, does people make same mistake with ME3, expecting and making assumptions or just take the game as what it is and play it. I my self like both ME1 and ME2. Both has positive stuff and negative. How ever, it's more like everyones personal taste, do they like these ME serie games.

In my opinion as feedback:

ME1 combat did not work well, the weapons where too same kind feeling, I used pistol like some machine gun in missions. Sometimes I just run trough enemies gun blazing, because my armor and weapons where so good. ME1 did great with story and npcs interactions. There was small random interaction to keep the spirit of the livign world alive.  Also I liked Mako gameplay even if some other here doesn't seem to. Vechile created variety in gameplay. Those beautiful landscapes in mako exploration where great, but the buildings design should need little more variety.

In ME2 combat was well done and weapons had different feeling. How ever, ME2 had way too many squad members and mission related to them. It leaved the main story weak and full of small plot holes. Also the character development got from personal to too generic and simplifyed. Like I could not anymore customize my squad members at all, what was possible in ME1. I like to customise and make choises.

If there was any hostility in that post, it was because it was like ! AM when I posted it and I was a little tired.  For that I apologize.

The point I was trying to make was that I, for one, did not expect "ME 1 with minor gameplay changes"  The most important phrase was: Not the same game, but an extention of what came before. I expected a sequel and got an entirely different game .  That is why I am disappointed.

[A_y0ner_]

Arwyl wrote...

Why ME 2 felt disappointing to me, Part 1.
 
I bought ME and ME 2 CE together. I started playing ME with a female soldier who later specialised as a shock-trooper. I chose to be a paragon because that's pretty much who I am: I'm pretty paragon-ish in real life too.

I had never ever gotten so immersed in a game before. I really lived in the ME universe. I was this soldier, this well-trained marine, proud to serve in the Alliance navy and committed to saving lives, human and alien alike. Everything felt right! The paragon dialogue choices were always satisfying and the voice acting was perfect. My background as a spacer and sole survivor of the tragedy in Akuze mattered and influenced the way other characters related to me. The Normandy felt like a real military ship, high tech but functional and devoid of unnecessary luxury. The vastness and sheer beauty of the Citadel filled me with awe every time I got there and I spent hours roaming and exploring all its locations and getting to know its very diverse citizens. I thought Kaidan was a cutie from the first moment I saw him sitting next to Joker during the opening scene, but I wasn't sure whether we'd hit it off, and I actually felt reluctant about getting involved with a man who fell directly under my chain of command. I was grateful for the slow pace of the romance, for the opportunity to get to know him better through conversation and on our missions together, before reaching the point where I didn't care about fraternization rules or the concerns of the rest of the crew enough to give up on Lt. Alenko anymore. I played through all of ME weighting each decision carefully. Sometimes I'd even save and stop playing for a while to think about the possible repercussions of my choices. What to do with the Rachni queen and whether or not to give the Cerberus data to the Shadow Broker kept me thinking and second-guessing for hours, even days after I'd made my decision, wondering if I'd made the right choice…
 
All the time I was playing ME, I couldn’t think of anything else. Going to work, sleeping and the rest of RL “chores” were painful, so badly I wanted to get back to the game and be Commander Shepard again. There were so many emotional moments that really touched me:
 
*SPOILERS*
I felt honoured and moved when I was made the first human Spectre. I felt the responsibility of command and the importance of my mission. I was amused by Ashley’s overt dislike of “what’s her name – Dr. T’Soni”. I was annoyed at times by Kaidan’s excessive care in choosing his words when speaking his mind. Captain Kirrahe’s speech sent actual chills down my spine on Virmire and I felt paralyzed when I realised I would have to leave Ashley behind, being painfully aware of the weight my feelings for Kaidan bore on that decision. I felt saddened by her death, even though she and I were very different women and hadn’t grown really close. I felt guilty for choosing Kaidan, even though I knew I couldn’t have made a different choice. I felt horror as the true nature of Cerberus’ experiments kept unfolding, especially after finding Toombes, whom I’d believed dead. I kept looking for Armistan Banes and wondering why Kahoku had to dye. I really wanted to help Tali return to the Migrant Fleet from her Pilgrimage with a gift worthy of her. I was deeply moved by Wrex’s loyalty and trust in me when I was forced to ask him to forego the cure for the genophage. I could go on and on, but I’ll skip to the end: having to sacrifice many lives to save the Council and the final battle, when it looked for a moment like I had died – Kaidan and Tali were with me, and I’ll never forget the looks on their faces – and then I emerged, limping but grinning… it brought very real tears to my eyes, which kept flowing as humanity was finally admitted into the Council.
*SPOILERS*
 
I don’t know what this game did to me and I’m not sure what it did to me was healthy, but it really gripped me and moved me to an extent like I had never experienced before in my whole RPGing life. That’s why my expectations were set so high when I installed and started playing ME 2.
 
Disappointment #1: technical issues. ME had handled fine on my PC, but I just couldn’t get the hang of the mouse control in ME 2. This was already noticeable while saving Joker in the prologue, but got really unbearable during the first few hostile encounters with the mechs at the Cerberus facility. I had to stop, go online and search through the forums to find the way to tweak the game so the whole world would stop spinning around me every time I slightly moved the mouse. I edited the Coalesced.ini file till my mouse felt normal again, only to find out that it still handled extremely awkward during the Bypass mini-game. I never got that completely right, but changing my mouse to a heavier, wireless one helped a little. After changing all the key bindings to what they had been in ME (why did they have to change that and why didn’t the tutorials acknowledge my changes???) I finally felt I could stop fumbling with the settings and just start enjoying the game.
 
To be continued…

I like where this is going and enjoyed reading your posts so far.

I can hear where your going however.

Mass Effect 1 really blew my mind in terms of one thing: it made me realize that video games actually have an incredible potential to really create an amazing and authentic world and plant players into the life of someone in the universe.

Mass Effect 2 did not advance this achievement. In fact, it kind of lost it. Figuring out why is the more difficult part.