10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Arwyl]

worm_burner wrote...

A_y0ner_ wrote...

Another thing that felt too forced was the whole loyalty missions premise. In ME1, when you help out Garrus and Wrex, it felt REAL. Like I was really helpin out a buddy. In ME2 it just became to forced down our throats. Yeah, they're *optional* but who the hell is'nt going to play them? They just get so blatant and so, "oh you need help? What a surprise"-ish.

I actually feel more connected to my squadmates from ME1 than ME2.  By being able to talk to them and not have them blatantly go "I need help"  kind of thing.  I've played through ME2 several times and keep going back to ME1.  The characters feel more genuine and I like that I don't feel forced to help them on there missions.  Even non squad members like Kohoku felt like actually characters.  And on another not why so little captain Anderson in ME2?

I agree. I think the characters in ME 2 were better fleshed out and I loved - and was moved by - many of their background stories. But all the time it was clear that those characters were just there to serve a purpose in-game. The characters in ME felt more alive and less "functional". Maybe it was the way they interacted with you and with each other during missions, speaking out their opinions and concerns on situations and difficult decisions, letting you know how they felt about what was happening or what you were just about to do. Or maybe it was the way their conversations not always centered on them and their issues, but also on you, your feelings, the weight of the mission on your shoulders... Or maybe it was the way they shouted "Shepard!" when you got badly hurt - or killed - during combat... Everything about how the ME characters interacted with you was immersive. In ME 2, there were just too many I'm-Just-An-NPC-In-A-Computer-Game moments.

[Lumikki]

How connected to someone feels to others, is also connected how many others there is. Meaning having 6 squad members is easyer than having 12. Second thing is how much time you spend with squad members and how much dialog you do with them.

I'm gonna make example here from my self.

In ME1, I did not connect to Kaidan at all, because never used him to any missions, just the few forced ones. Also I was not so connected to Tali, because could not find good armor for her for long time. I had pretty good connection with Liara and Asley on ME1. How ever, because Asley and Liara arent' part of ME2 in same ways, I can't connect same squad members again. Garrus and Vrex was okey characters for me in ME1, but not really close ones.

Now, in ME2 I'm much more connected to Tali because her first meeting and loyal mission. Also, Miranda did for some reason come more important to me. Garrus still exist, but because his actions, he never did come really good connected with me. As for others, they are there somewhere in mist.

So, basicly I just connected with two squad members in both games. It's not about game, it's the amount of squad members. It takes time to be connected them and if You use many of them all the time, you get alot of disconnected. When consenrate to few sqauad members, it makes deeper connections. Even if ME2 had those recruiting and loyalty missions.

Not sure if this make any sense.

Modifié par Lumikki, 23 mai 2010 - 06:04 .

[spacehamsterZH]

Arwyl wrote...

Maybe it was the way they interacted with you and with each other during missions, speaking out their opinions and concerns on situations and difficult decisions, letting you know how they felt about what was happening or what you were just about to do.

Uh... the ME2 squaddies do that too... remember Zaeed's angry reaction at the Cerberus facility on Jack's loyalty mission, for example?

I think the disconnect comes more from the fact that there's just too damn many characters in ME2, and they're given more or less equal weight. The two games are roughly the same length, so you likely spent twice as much time with each squadmate in ME1. I don't know that I'd want to criticize BW too much for this as the characters are really well developed and the loyalty missions are obviously the best part of the game, but the emotional attachment to the characters that they were meant to inspire probably would have been stronger with fewer characters, thus fewer recruitment and loyalty missions and meatier, longer main quest missions.

[Arwyl]

A_y0ner_ wrote...

I like where this is going and enjoyed reading your posts so far.

I can hear where your going however.

Mass Effect 1 really blew my mind in terms of one thing: it made me realize that video games actually have an incredible potential to really create an amazing and authentic world and plant players into the life of someone in the universe.

Mass Effect 2 did not advance this achievement. In fact, it kind of lost it. Figuring out why is the more difficult part.

Thank you . I was very worried about the amount of flaming my "walls of text" would bring about!

Yes, you're completely right about where this is going.

In Elcor speech: "Apologetically: the walls of text that will follow represent my honest attempt to figure out why ME 2 did not achieve the same immersive experience as the first game. Sincerely: I love Bioware and their games and it is not my intention to bash anything or anyone. Hopefully: my views will not offend anyone, thus I won't be flamed or insulted for expressing them. Firm determination: I'll try to explain clearly and constructively why I feel that ME 2 failed to recreate the immersion I experienced with ME, while at the same time giving credit to ME 2 for the things I believe it did better than ME. Hopefully unnecessary clarifying remarks: 1) I do not hate ME 2 nor think it is a bad game; 2) Though I'm "RPG-biased" because I enjoy a good story and I simply lack the skills to play fast-paced real-time shooter-style combat, I don't look down on shooter games nor do I think the people who enjoy and play them are morons or inferior to the RPG-crowd in any way."

[KitsuneRommel]

Lumikki wrote...

In ME1, I did not connect to Kaidan at all, because never used him to any missions, just the few forced ones. Also I was not so connected to Tali, because could not find good armor for her for long time. I had pretty good connection with Liara and Asley on ME1. How ever, because Asley and Liara arent' part of ME2 in same ways, I can't connect same squad members again. Garrus and Vrex was okey characters for me in ME1, but not really close ones.

Now, in ME2 I'm much more connected to Tali because her first meeting and loyal mission. Also, Miranda did for some reason come more important to me. Garrus still exist, but because his actions, he never did come really good connected with me. As for others, they are there somewhere in mist.

So, basicly I just connected with two squad members in both games. It's not about game, it's the amount of squad members. It takes time to be connected them and if You use many of them all the time, you get alot of disconnected. When consenrate to few sqauad members, it makes deeper connections. Even if ME2 had those recruiting and loyalty missions.

Not sure if this make any sense.

It did. The first time I played with Garrus and Liara so naturally both of them felt a lot closer to me than Ashley or Kaidan for example. I really started to appreciate Wrex after Virmiere and even fought with him on many Pinnacle Station missions where Liara was less useful. That's basically the reason I took Garrus with me on most ME2 missions too.

[Arwyl]

Lumikki wrote...

So, basicly I just connected with two squad members in both games. It's not about game, it's the amount of squad members. It takes time to be connected them and if You use many of them all the time, you get alot of disconnected. When consenrate to few sqauad members, it makes deeper connections. Even if ME2 had those recruiting and loyalty missions.

Not sure if this make any sense.

It does, at least to me, to a great extent. But there is more to it, I think. The characters' personalities really count.

In my first ME playthrough, I was a female paragon soldier. Most of the time, I took Kaidan and Tali with me. In part because their biotic/tech skills complemented my combat strength, but I could have chosen Garrus and Wrex/Liara too. I chose Kaidan and Tali because I liked them from the start, whereas I only started liking Garrus and Wrex as I got to know them better. I never liked Ashley or Liara much during my first playthrough. I felt really connected to Kaidan and Tali, though, and they were with me until the end.

I'm in my second ME playthrough now (just returned to the Citadel after Virmire) and I'm playing as a male engineer. (Started out as a renegade, in which I managed to get to 100% after much teeth grinding and visceral churning, but my paragon meter is rising suspiciously high of late, showing my true nature.) Anyways, my faithful squadmates this time around are... take a guess... Ashley and Liara! I still don't like Liara much, but Ash has most definitely grown on me. To the point that I'm really frustrated that I seem to have screwed up on her romance, as it was Liara who almost forced a kiss on me 2 days ago. I haven't touched the game again since.

So yes, spending quality time with your squaddies is important for the attachment, but it isn't the only factor. In ME 2, I only got attached to Thane. He was the only one who ever expressed interest in me as a person and actually asked how I was feeling. The others were just too preoccupied with their own issues or just plainly didn't seem to care. Except maybe for Legion, who really touched me in the way it couldn't explain why it had chosen that piece of my old N7 armour to fix that hole in its chest. I guess I need to feel that I'm special to somebody too.

[Arwyl]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Uh... the ME2 squaddies do that too... remember Zaeed's angry reaction at the Cerberus facility on Jack's loyalty mission, for example?

I think the disconnect comes more from the fact that there's just too damn many characters in ME2, and they're given more or less equal weight. The two games are roughly the same length, so you likely spent twice as much time with each squadmate in ME1. I don't know that I'd want to criticize BW too much for this as the characters are really well developed and the loyalty missions are obviously the best part of the game, but the emotional attachment to the characters that they were meant to inspire probably would have been stronger with fewer characters, thus fewer recruitment and loyalty missions and meatier, longer main quest missions.

I took Miranda to Jack's loyalty mission. Probably shouldn't have. She was pretty quiet on that one.

I agree that time spent with squaddies is a must in growing attached to them, but to me, their personalities and whether they seem to care about me at all matter a lot more.

[A_y0ner_]

If I could add one concern to the whole "squad members" debate: I feel that ME2 had one too many "extreme" people and not enough "normal" people like ME1 had.



Think of Ashley, Kaiden, Liara and Garrus. Totally NORMAL people. Liara may be a bit quirky in her choice of profession but all these people possess an absolute REGULAR life. These are Everyday Heroes. Regular people who get caught in something spectacularly important and, in turn, they themselves become spectacularly important.



Now think of ME2. I know that your collecting the best of the best and all that, but having too many extreme characters can be uncomfortable at times. There's no break in all the extremes and they all eventually blend in together. No one is unique. Jack, Grunt, Samara, Mordin, Miranda, Thane etc. Their all too over the top. There's no one to really relate to.



I think players had more of a deeper connection to ME1 characters because they were more real. More human (or alien) and not some suped up fancy superhero.



PS- Wrex was probably the only real "super" character, being the descendant of a great clan leader and all that. But even he is made really human in his rejection of his extreme past.

[Arwyl]

A_y0ner_ wrote...

If I could add one concern to the whole "squad members" debate: I feel that ME2 had one too many "extreme" people and not enough "normal" people like ME1 had.

Think of Ashley, Kaiden, Liara and Garrus. Totally NORMAL people. Liara may be a bit quirky in her choice of profession but all these people possess an absolute REGULAR life. These are Everyday Heroes. Regular people who get caught in something spectacularly important and, in turn, they themselves become spectacularly important.

Now think of ME2. I know that your collecting the best of the best and all that, but having too many extreme characters can be uncomfortable at times. There's no break in all the extremes and they all eventually blend in together. No one is unique. Jack, Grunt, Samara, Mordin, Miranda, Thane etc. Their all too over the top. There's no one to really relate to.

I think players had more of a deeper connection to ME1 characters because they were more real. More human (or alien) and not some suped up fancy superhero.

PS- Wrex was probably the only real "super" character, being the descendant of a great clan leader and all that. But even he is made really human in his rejection of his extreme past.

I think you're really onto something here! The most normal character in ME 2 was Jacob, and I actually liked him... till I started a more personal conversation with him - as a female Shepard - and realised how obnoxious he was! That didn't feel right either! It was almost a split personality: on one hand he was this good-hearted, sensible and sensitive, brave and respectful young man who wanted to do the right thing; but when talking to me, he brought up the subject "one-nighting the commander" in our first conversation when I was just trying to do some social talk. Man, that and his "Already? I'm not keen on forcing these talks." every time I tried to get to know him better, killed every chance I had of ever growing attached to him.

Tali was okay too, but she had so little to say to me after her loyalty mission! After all we had been through together, I'd expected her to be more of a friend and less of a tool for the final battle.

[finnithe]

A_y0ner_ wrote...

If I could add one concern to the whole "squad members" debate: I feel that ME2 had one too many "extreme" people and not enough "normal" people like ME1 had.

Think of Ashley, Kaiden, Liara and Garrus. Totally NORMAL people. Liara may be a bit quirky in her choice of profession but all these people possess an absolute REGULAR life. These are Everyday Heroes. Regular people who get caught in something spectacularly important and, in turn, they themselves become spectacularly important.

Now think of ME2. I know that your collecting the best of the best and all that, but having too many extreme characters can be uncomfortable at times. There's no break in all the extremes and they all eventually blend in together. No one is unique. Jack, Grunt, Samara, Mordin, Miranda, Thane etc. Their all too over the top. There's no one to really relate to.

I think players had more of a deeper connection to ME1 characters because they were more real. More human (or alien) and not some suped up fancy superhero.

PS- Wrex was probably the only real "super" character, being the descendant of a great clan leader and all that. But even he is made really human in his rejection of his extreme past.

I thought  that was purposeful on Bioware's part, The people you pick up in ME1, aside from Ash, Kaiden and Liara, are randoms who you pick up off the street.You have to admit that there are much better choices than taking a C-Sec investigator, or extremely young Quarian Engineer. I'll never understand why Shepard would trust Wrex either.

The people in ME2 all felt like people you want on your team, despite their volatility. Jacob has his time in the Corsairs and in ME: Galaxy, Miranda is one of Cerberus' top agents, Thane is a famous assassin, Samara is a one of the most gifted Asari biotics ever, Jack is a most gifted human biotic we know of, Mordin had his time with the genophage, Legion is the most advanced Geth we know of, Grunt is pure Krogan, and Garrus and Tali have grown into some of the best. When you hire specialists of this nature, especially ones from the Terminus, you will probably get some problems. I will say however that Jacob, Garrus and Tali are still pretty normal, despite what happened on Jacob's loyalty mission, it doesn't really make him any weirder. 

[uberdowzen]

bjdbwea wrote...

This. The combat in ME 2 may look "cooler", and the controls on consoles may be better (on PC they are most certainly not). But I also quickly found it tedious and repetitive. Combat in ME 2 is quite two dimensional. You can sit behind cover forever and kill the enemies one at a time. The only dimensions you move are up and down, and maybe left or right. In fact that's pretty much the only strategy. Only with enemies who do advance, do you sometimes have to change your
point of cover.

Plus, ME 1 was more challenging. Shepard couldn't just shrug off a direct hit from a missile or a sniper, it meant reloading your game. And Krogans were the challenge they are supposed to be, in ME 2 they are just cannon fodder too.

The standard response to this is "b-but you were invincible in ME 1". No, you were not. Play the game on highest difficulty, and look how it plays at least in the beginning, when you don't have the skills maximized yet. Of course you're stronger later on, that's how an RPG should work.

The controls on PC are almost exactly the same!!! You're absolutely correct, Shepherd couldn't just shrug off missiles and sniper shots. Of course, it was incredibly fun making one tiny mistake with a rocket, dying and losing about 10 minutes of progress either because you forgot to save or because the irritating save system hasn't let you save for the past 10 minutes because there are some enemies about 500m away who haven't even seen you.

ME2 combat is challenging, but in a good way. If you think about what you're doing, you do well. ME1 combat is challenging in the incredibly uneven way. Krogans are a challenge but that's only because they can take a ridiculous amount of damage and also because often when you were running backwards from them you accidently took cover and got slaughtered while trying to get out of it.

No you were not invincible in ME1, you went between very tough and incredibly weak. And having played a lot of RPGs, that whole weak early on and getting tougher later thing gets old after about an hour or 2, when you realise that you can kill anything without even thinking about it. Try playing Fable TLC, the final 5 hours of that are tedious as you just hammer the left mouse button while holding W. Tedious.

[uberdowzen]

A_y0ner_ wrote...

If I could add one concern to the whole "squad members" debate: I feel that ME2 had one too many "extreme" people and not enough "normal" people like ME1 had.

Because normal people make such interesting stories. And the only "didn't really do it for me" character in ME2 was Jack. Jeeze, by the end when the collectors didn't do it my character was willing to kill her himself...

[Onyx Jaguar]

In regards to normal characters, Jacob gets hammered much like Kaidan did. I agree that there should be more grounded characters and I could easily do without Samara and Thane. Mordin kind of fits the bill though.

[bjdbwea]

uberdowzen wrote...

The controls on PC are almost exactly the same!!!

Yes, and that's exactly the problem. The thing you're typing your replies on? It's called a "keyboard". Because it has many keys. There's no need to force several important functions on a single key. That may be necessary with your console controllers, but a proper PC adaption would make use of the additional keys.

uberdowzen wrote...

You're absolutely correct, Shepherd couldn't just shrug off missiles and sniper shots. Of course, it was incredibly fun making one tiny mistake with a rocket, dying and losing about 10 minutes of progress either because you forgot to save or because the irritating save system hasn't let you save for the past 10 minutes because there are some enemies about 500m away who haven't even seen you.

Yes, it was challenging, somewhat at least. And that's a good thing.

uberdowzen wrote...

ME2 combat is challenging, but in a good way. If you think about what you're doing, you do well. ME1 combat is challenging in the incredibly uneven way. Krogans are a challenge but that's only because they can take a ridiculous amount of damage and also because often when you were running backwards from them you accidently took cover and got slaughtered while trying to get out of it.

ME 2 combat is not very challenging. It's a shooting range most of the time, and you're invincible as long as you don't forget to get back to cover every few seconds. Yes, and when a rocket hits Shepard, he just ducks for a few seconds too. That's what I call dumbing down.

Of course my Shepard never accidently took cover in ME 1 either, but it happens regularly in ME 2, due to the bad controls, as described above.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 23 mai 2010 - 09:01 .

[finnithe]

Perhaps they can improve the cover controls in ME3 by adding gestures, like they had in GoW. If you press up on your thumbstick or press the w key while pressing the cover key you can jump over cover. I never finished. Aiming the crosshairs and pressing the w key towards another piece of cover might have you run/jump/dive towards it.

[Arwyl]

Why ME 2 felt disappointing to me, Part 2.
 
After getting the controls right, I relaxed and sat back to enjoy the beauty of the graphics in ME 2. My Shepard looked beautiful, even more than she had in ME. I missed the old scars and didn’t quite like the new, glowing ones, but I could understand how that could have happened given that I had just been brought back from the dead. I loved it that the avatar I controlled in-game was high-res and looked a lot like the even higher-res Shepard in the cutscenes, giving a better sense of continuity between the parts of the game that I controlled and the cinematic cutscenes than ME had ever achieved.
 
As I saw more of the cutscenes, I realised how amazing the facial expressions were. The teeth were the only thing that didn’t look quite right, and some animations were a bit awkward. But the facial expressions and, especially, the way you could tell what a character was feeling by just looking into their eyes, that I thought was amazing, and I fell in love with the graphical quality and the excellent modelling of ME 2.
 
So yes, there were things that I liked about ME 2 and that I consider improvements with respect to ME.
 
But somehow, the story failed to grip me from the very beginning. I never took the mech attacks on the Cerberus facility seriously. In all honesty, I thought it was a drill to check whether I had regained full use of all my faculties and skills and was ready to resume fighting, a mere evaluation run to test extensively whether the Lazarus project had been a success. Only towards the end of that opening level did it hit me that the attack had been real. Why hadn’t it felt real?
 
And speaking of skills… Why did I have so few? Where had all my old skills gone? And why couldn’t I access them by pressing “U” any more? Wait, the “J” key wasn’t working either, and neither were “I” or “M”… Wait a minute… Where was my inventory? And why didn’t I have a map to help me explore? But this was the opening level, with the tutorial stuff going on… Maybe the inventory and the map would be available later on, after they had been explained by the tutorial.
 
Speaking of which… had there ever been a tutorial in ME? Hmm… couldn’t remember, but if it had been there, it certainly hadn’t been as present and immersion-breaking as this stuff flashing on my screen and the constant reminders by Miranda and Jacob of what I was supposed to do next. After the opening scene of ME, I had been free to explore the Normandy at will, before and after talking to Captain Anderson. Only a discrete note in my journal reminded me that, sooner or later, I was supposed to meet the Captain in the comms room, and talk to Joker to set course to the Citadel after that. But nobody and nothing had been pushing me to do so. Back to ME 2: What was that deck of bright orange vignettes popping up on the right side of my screen and making distracting sounds? Oh, right… they had the same function as the pleasantly discrete HUD notifications in ME. But wait… what the heck…? Loading screens? And later… Mission Complete screens??? “Press F to end the mission”????? Right, I was playing a game, and I was to be reminded of that fact all the time. Good-bye immersion.
 
But all this has been discussed at length before by others. I’ve read through the first 60 pages of this thread before starting to post and I’ve seen these issues brought up by many over and over again. I agree with those who feel that elevator rides were vastly preferable to loading screens in that they didn’t violently pull you out of the world and the story the way that loading screens do. The same holds true for walking in and out of the Normandy while docked. The “decontamination in progress” or “equalizing pressure” messages, and the military-protocol-ish ones like: “Logged: the Commanding Officer is ashore, XO Presley has the deck” felt very realistic and kept you in character and in the world. It all felt right. My huge thanks to Bioware for their great attention to detail!
 
I eventually got over the loading and mission complete screens. I even accepted the lack of an inventory. By reading through many posts here I’ve realised that I belong to a minority of people who actually enjoy managing inventories and finding, equipping, buying and selling stuff. To me, it definitely added to the game. I was genuinely thrilled when I first saw that Stiletto (IV or V, I’ve forgotten) in the salarian vendor’s assortment on Feros. Feros was the first planet I visited and me and my party still had our Kesslers and other very mediocre weapons at the time. We had to leave Feros without the Stiletto for lack of credits, but I promised Kaidan I’d buy him that pistol as soon as I could afford it… and I kept my promise! (I was using mainly my assault rifle, so the fancy pistol had to be for him.) Kaidan stuck to that pistol for a long time, even long after we had found and bought better weapons. This is just one way in which the inventory helped me role-play and get immersed. I never felt the same thrill about the upgrades I found or bought in ME 2, but I eventually learned to live with the new system, and got over it. I even bought a few fish for my excessively luxurious cabin on the SR2.
 
But there were a few things I never got over, and those were the things that kept reminding me that ME 2 was just a game. I’ll start a new post for those, this one has gotten long enough!

Modifié par Arwyl, 23 mai 2010 - 10:02 .

[Icinix]

Arwyl wrote...
(snip)
And speaking of skills… Why did I have so few? Where had all my old skills gone? And why couldn’t I access them by pressing “U” any more? Wait, the “J” key wasn’t working either, and neither were “I” or “M”… Wait a minute… Where was my inventory? And why didn’t I have a map to help me explore? But this was the opening level, with the tutorial stuff going on… Maybe the inventory and the map would be available later on, after they had been explained by the tutorial.
 
Speaking of which… had there ever been a tutorial in ME? Hmm… couldn’t remember, but if it had been there, it certainly hadn’t been as present and immersion-breaking as this stuff flashing on my screen and the constant reminders by Miranda and Jacob of what I was supposed to do next. After the opening scene of ME, I had been free to explore the Normandy at will, before and after talking to Captain Anderson. Only a discrete note in my journal reminded me that, sooner or later, I was supposed to meet the Captain in the comms room, and talk to Joker to set course to the Citadel after that. But nobody and nothing had been pushing me to do so. Back to ME 2: What was that deck of bright orange vignettes popping up on the right side of my screen and making distracting sounds? Oh, right… they had the same function as the pleasantly discrete HUD notifications in ME. But wait… what the heck…? Loading screens? And later… Mission Complete screens??? “Press F to end the mission”????? Right, I was playing a game, and I was to be reminded of that fact all the time. Good-bye immersion.
(SNIP) 

I had a similar situation on my first playthrough in ME2.  Before completing the first mission, I spent a good few minutes running through the keybindings thinking something was broken.  Then realising the things I was trying to access were not in the actual game.

As for the second point, well, I think those particular things were aimed at a market that is not the traditional market for BioWare games.  Let's say a market that is more concerned with skipping cutscenes and story elements in place of faster access to 'levels' and shooting.  Which is fine if that is the way BioWare wants to go.  I can understand it because look at sales figures for shooting level based games, they're through the roof.  It's too big a pie to not get a piece of.  I don't like it, but if it gets BioWare more money now without burning existing players too bad, then BioWare can work on really adventurous projects down the track that are awesome.

[KitsuneRommel]

bjdbwea wrote...

Yes, and that's exactly the problem. The thing you're typing your replies on? It's called a "keyboard". Because it has many keys. There's no need to force several important functions on a single key. That may be necessary with your console controllers, but a proper PC adaption would make use of the additional keys.

Sorry but that's not going to happen. Mass Effect is mainly a console game and it will have a console control system. A real PC version would not have console style menus, console style conversation wheel, etc.

Yes, it was challenging, somewhat at least. And that's a good thing.

You know what was challenging? Operation Flashpoint. Missions could easily take an hour or more and in the end you could get killed by a single rifle shot. A little infuriating at times but at least it forced you to play carefully.

[tonnactus]

spacehamsterZH wrote...



Yeah, but come on now... that's really not a game-breaking change.

Its annoying as hell: After every fight i collect as much ammo i could get, just for case to have enough for the next fight.For me this is as gamebreaking as the new retarded "protection sytsem" that made enemies with shields and armor immune to most biotic and tech abilities.

[tonnactus]

Ecael wrote...


After all, being able to shoot almost non-stop makes the game a thinking gamer's RPG, but having to shoot and reload makes it a brainless shooter.

I repeat:
The player decide to mod his assault rifle this way.
Rpgs give the player such options.Shooters not.
In Oblivion,with the right drinks and fortiefied magig spells,it was also possible to spam devastating spells.

Modifié par tonnactus, 23 mai 2010 - 10:33 .

[tonnactus]

uberdowzen wrote...
 And how is ME2's combat system more simple than ME1's?

The answer is easy: This game has less options how to fight enemies.This game has less options to customize and upgrade weapons and "armor"(better called enchantements and shields,because damage migitation doesnt exist anymore/enviroment protections doesnt exists anymore)

Just imagine the mission with the three heavy mechs with the Mass Effect combat system:

A biotic could throw them,lift them,stasis them.A tech could sabotage their weapons from the start and dont have to wait until their shields and armor are down,at this point they are nearly dead anyways.
The player could use tungsten ammo without having it as a power and could give it the whole team,without reducing the damage output of the ammo.

A lot of option.

Now,what could the player do in MAss Effect 2? Just shoot them to death,increasing the speed of this with the ammo powers and some overload,warp,inferno blast and strafe around the shuttle at the end.Amazing,isnt it??

[KitsuneRommel]

Arwyl wrote...

And why didn’t I have a map to help me explore?

Am I the only one who thought that having a map was silly? "Hmm where to go now... I know. Just check the map!" It felt too much like those questhelpers in MMOs.
 

Loading screens? And later… Mission Complete screens??? “Press F to end the mission”????? Right, I was playing a game, and I was to be reminded of that fact all the time. Good-bye immersion.

Really. ME1 is FULL of loading screens too not to mention those annoying "loading" pauses every 50 meters in citadel. I agree that the mission complete screen was pretty stupid idea.

But all this has been discussed at length before by others. I’ve read through the first 60 pages of this thread before starting to post and I’ve seen these issues brought up by many over and over again. I agree with those who feel that elevator rides were vastly preferable to loading screens in that they didn’t violently pull you out of the world and the story the way that loading screens do. The same holds true for walking in and out of the Normandy while docked. The “decontamination in progress” or “equalizing pressure” messages, and the military-protocol-ish ones like: “Logged: the Commanding Officer is ashore, XO Presley has the deck” felt very realistic and kept you in character and in the world. It all felt right. My huge thanks to Bioware for their great attention to detail!

Elevator rides always come up in these discussions... Just visited the citadel again to buy some new liceses. Do you want to guess how many times I got squad banter this time? Zero. Every time it was a newscast that I had already heard or it was about something I just had done 1 hour earlier.  Besides unless you are a masochist and never use mass transit you will have loading screens and lots of them.
 

I belong to a minority of people who actually enjoy managing inventories and finding, equipping, buying and selling stuff. To me, it definitely added to the game. I was genuinely thrilled when I first saw that Stiletto (IV or V, I’ve forgotten) in the salarian vendor’s assortment on Feros.

It just becomes pointless really fast. Now after I've got my Spectre weapons I just sell all my weapon drops without a second though. I do the same with armor too since for some reason you can only compare them to your (or your group's) gear meaning you either write down all your squadmates gear or run back and forth between the lockers and the merchant. The only thing I check is if I have gotten better armor or weapon mods. That's it.

[KitsuneRommel]

tonnactus wrote...

Just imagine the mission with the three heavy mechs with the Mass Effect combat system:

A biotic could throw them,lift them,stasis them.A tech could sabotage their weapons from the start and dont have to wait until their shields and armor are down,at this point they are nearly dead anyways.
The player could use tungsten ammo without having it as a power and could give it the whole team,without reducing the damage output of the ammo.

A lot of option.

Now,what could the player do in MAss Effect 2? Just shoot them to death,increasing the speed of this with the ammo powers and some overload,warp,inferno blast and strafe around the shuttle at the end.Amazing,isnt it??

Yes adept could rotate lift, singularity and throw and they would never get a shot off.

But other than that... in ME1 you could use your and your squads powers to help you shoot the targets down.
In ME2 you could use your and your squads powers to help you shoot the targets down.

[tonnactus]

uberdowzen wrote...
And ME2 is not buggy, I can list all the bugs I've had on 1 hand: rearraging the quick bar causes the game to crash (PC specific), occasionally when you leave orbit the Normandy won't move (can be fixed by re-entering orbit and exiting again), can't leave Mordin's loyalty mission if I ask to stay after the conclusion. 3 bugs. That's very good.

"Cant reach the target"isnt a bug when biotic charge didnt work when the enemy in just 1,2 meters away from me?
Samara and other squadmembers sometimes run around freely and i have to look where they are(Reaper Iff).
No one that ever played a vanguard in Mass Effect 2 can say that this game isnt bugged terribly at least for this class.