10273 réponses à ce sujet

[tonnactus]

MassEffect762 wrote...

I think part of the reason they took away our/the ability to spam powers(not that ammo type B.S) was because of the introduction of heavy weapons, they are(imo) substitute "domination" in ME2 for ME1s power spam.(boy I miss that, hell imagine if we could have both!)

The only thing that works as domination is the cain and the arc projector.The other weapons just suck.I kill a thresher maw faster with incineration blast and a heavy pistol with inferno ammo then with heavy weapons.

[uberdowzen]

tonnactus wrote...

uberdowzen wrote...

That doesn't mean the combat is simpler,

Less options.More simpler.Plain and simple.A really boring scissors,paper, rock system that didnt require any thinking.

But firstly, I just pointed out that they aren't options, you can use all of them in one section of combat. Secondly, a boring rock paper scissors system is better than an even more boring spam powers point and shoot system.

No.Then the first power would become availbale again.And its funny that you mention of time a player has to spent in cover.Because there is little time to shoot a heavy mech.Only in the pauses when it didnt fire the machine gun you could actually shoot them.Or when he is busy to destroy a combat drone.(doesnt last very long too)

No it wouldn't. You said yourself that you have to use adrenaline rush to make powers recharge in a decent amount of time. And having to take cover when fighting YMIRs is kind of the point. It either makes you use tactics or forces you to use the improved cover system.  Spread out your companions (the mech can only shoot one at a time), use tacital cloak or take cover. There are probably other options.

[uberdowzen]

tonnactus wrote...

You are just lying or not far enough in the game.There isnt a mission without "cant rech the target" where is nothing in the way between you and your enemie.I mean the collector platforms.Its impossible to charge out of cover to another platform even when it is connected to yours.You have to sprint to another platform and take a lot of bullets before you could actually charge.Charge bugs: Enemy standing in the air or above boxes when you reach them.

Not a bug too i guess.Lol.

This is my third playthrough and I'm halfway through the game as a vanguard. No there isn't a mission without "can't reach target" (that's not actually what I said), but when that happens it makes sense. Usually it's either something in the way or the enemies are on a platform the player isn't meant to be able to reach. I will give you that it's a bug on the collector platforms when you can't use it, although bear in mind it still works you just don't move.

And I don't like being called a liar.

[tonnactus]

uberdowzen wrote...

No it wouldn't. You said yourself that you have to use adrenaline rush to make powers recharge in a decent amount of time.

No,i never wrote that.I said that vanguards never have issues with reload times even in the early game.An adept,with the bastion specialisation and two medical exoskleletons have really fast reload times too.

And having to take cover when fighting YMIRs is kind of the point. It either makes you use tactics or forces you to use the improved cover system.  Spread out your companions (the mech can only shoot one at a time), use tacital cloak or take cover. There are probably other options.

Yes,spamming the drone or using a dominated krogan berserker.At least the last option was really funny.
More option=more interesting.Why someone would like silly restriction like the "protection system" in MAss Effect  is beyond me.

And what was great to is that Mass Effect Squadmembers were nearly equal when it comes to the number of powers and their reload times.Even their dps wasnt as bad as now.(i mean,45 percent less damage with the vindicator)

[Arwyl]

A_y0ner_ wrote...

Arwyl,

I absolutely agree with you on the opening level. It has a  incomplete feenling to it. Who started the attack? Was it really that Cereberus employee Miranda killed? If so, why? Was it perhaps Miranda?

I thought it would have been a great idea for Miranda to have started the whole attack. Kill all the witnesses to the Lazarus project and destroy all the evidence. It sounds like some ruthless thing Cerberus would do. Perhaps they wanted to keep Shepard's survival as a secret weapon.

But instead, it has this whoel, "huh? what the hell is going on?" feeling that never gets explained or even considered somewhat satisfyingly.

So true! Interesting theory, btw. I know I cringed when I saw Miranda gun down that Cerberus employee in cold blood. But if they had wanted to keep Shepard's survival a secret, wouldn't they have altered his/her appearance instead of just sending the Commander out there where the whole Galaxy seemed to recognize him/her? Or do you mean that they wanted to keep the nature of the Lazarus project secret, like the methods and technology involved? That would make sense, in a ruthless kind of way.

And as for getting used to the layout of ME2, every game has that learning curve. It's been a factor of every video game in history. It's nothing to really complain about. So it's different from ME1. It's a new game; It should be.

Yeah, you're right. I just never understood the need to map what had been the E key to the Spacebar, and what had been the Spacebar to the Ctrl key. That just causes you to have the learning curve all over again every time you switch between the games.

As for the loading screens and mission complete screens, I think everyone agress with you. I personally didn't understand why everyone was complaining about the loading times in the elevator. I thought they were a great idea and I didn't think they were particularly long.

and the inventory of ME2 is an example of a great idea that wasn't executed so well. I liked the fact that you couldn't change weapons during a mission. After all, do soldiers bring with them plethoras of weapons and armors into battle? But there was a noticeable lack of variety. Which was dissapointing. Especially in the armor department. 

But the ME1 inventory system wasn't perfect. Omni gel was a useless concept. I hated having 20 of the same weapons and then having to throw out all the weapons I picked up because my inventory was full. It definitely got a little messy at times. ME2 is more clean but less exciting I would say.

I'm fine with not being able to switch weapons or armour during a mission, unless I found them/bought them right there and then, during the mission. In that case I'd like the option to equip the new stuff immediately - one or more, depending on how many I bought/found - as well as scanning the items to have them made on the Normandy, so they would be available to the whole squad later, after some acceptable R&D time. The old stuff would still be available on the Normandy, as it is now in ME 2. Only the old stuff is useless now once you have the new stuff, with the exception of heavy weapons.
 
I'd like to have more variety too, and stats that would allow me to make more informed decisions about what weapons/armour types are better suited to my very diverse companions and their different fighting styles. Because I'd like to see weapon training and skills back. And ammo types as mods. I don't care much for thermal clips btw. I agree with Darth Drago that they screw up the lore. To me, it doesn't make sense to arrive somewhere and find thermal clips just lying around, or have husks and abominations drop them. The overheating system worked fine for me.

Yeah, my inventory got messy too, basically because I could never decide what upgrades I wanted to keep and which ones I wanted to get rid of. There were so many possible combinations of upgrades that I used to keep around several copies of each of them, just in case I decided that I wanted to equip the whole squad with a certain mod at some point. Weapons and armour I didn't have trouble choosing from. But the upgrades...  Still, I enjoyed having an inventory.

I'd also like to have a "honest" way of earning some credits other than looting other peoples' safes, whether it's selling items or resources, or doing optional quests for some extra rewards. More like in ME. I've got my issues with the reward system in ME 2; in general, I think it's only fair that I get rewarded more if I bother to do more stuff than if I just rush through the game doing the bare minimum of quests and assignments. And then I'd like some sweet stuff to spend my credits on. I really miss the shopping, both buying and selling!

[uberdowzen]

[quote]tonnactus wrote...

[quote]uberdowzen wrote...

No it wouldn't. You said yourself that you have to use adrenaline rush to make powers recharge in a decent amount of time.
[/quote]
No,i never wrote that.I said that vanguards never have issues with reload times even in the early game.An adept,with the bastion specialisation and two medical exoskleletons have really fast reload times too.[/quote]

So to be an effective you have to use two late level armor upgrades and choose the right specialisation. Choice is only a good thing if the alternatives options are worth choosing.

[quote]
And having to take cover when fighting YMIRs is kind of the point. It either makes you use tactics or forces you to use the improved cover system.  Spread out your companions (the mech can only shoot one at a time), use tacital cloak or take cover. There are probably other options.

[/quote]

Yes,spamming the drone or using a dominated krogan berserker.At least the last option was really funny.
More option=more interesting.Why someone would like silly restriction like the "protection system" in MAss Effect  is beyond me.[/quote]

Because it makes the gameplay more interesting. It requires you to use more of your weapons and rely more on squad members.

[quote]
And what was great to is that Mass Effect Squadmembers were nearly equal when it comes to the number of powers and their reload times.Even their dps wasnt as bad as now.(i mean,45 percent less damage with the vindicator)

[/quote]

They're not meant to be as good as you. They're your support you shouldn't have to rely on them.

[StodgyFrost98]

My biggest disappointment for ME2 was the inventory system and that they dumbed it down so much making it an action shooter instead of an action rpg. If they can find a way to solve the inventory problem ME3 will be the bomb!

[brfritos]

Arwyl wrote...

Why ME 2 felt disappointing to me, Part 2.

But wait… what the heck…? Loading screens? And later… Mission Complete screens??? “Press F to end the mission”????? Right, I was playing a game, and I was to be reminded of that fact all the time. Good-bye immersion.

I really hate the help messages in ME2. In ME1 you have the option to turn them off, at least.

If anyone doubts what Arwyl is saying, try to scan a planet, but don't pick the minerals showed.
That's right, the help message saying "you have to pick them, what the hell you're thinking"! appears every time.
Goodbye, freedom of choice.

The worst of the worst is Tali loyalty mission, I'm starting to disgust the mission because of this (and is really a great mission, the first time I saw the quarian scientist pleading for her son in the monitors I became very touched by).

The problem is in the end, when after the trial you want to talk to people...you shouldn't!
Yes, every second that s*** "press F to end the mission" appears.

No, you don't need to talk to people and you shouldn't.
Let's shoot another thing in another place, go, go, fast.

But you are forgetting Eden Prime, it's the tutorial for ME1, but as I said, you have the option to turn off the messages, so the mission doesn't look like a tutorial.
And I like ME1 & ME2, I don't agree that ME2 is very, very bad.

There are some issues, but is a great game, only very diferent from the first.

[ ]'s

[Dudeman315]

uberdowzen wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

uberdowzen wrote...

No it wouldn't. You said yourself that you have to use adrenaline rush to make powers recharge in a decent amount of time.

No,i never wrote that.I said that vanguards never have issues with reload times even in the early game.An adept,with the bastion specialisation and two medical exoskleletons have really fast reload times too.

So to be an effective you have to use two late level armor upgrades and choose the right specialisation. Choice is only a good thing if the alternatives options are worth choosing.

And having to take cover when fighting YMIRs is kind of the point. It either makes you use tactics or forces you to use the improved cover system.  Spread out your companions (the mech can only shoot one at a time), use tacital cloak or take cover. There are probably other options.

Yes,spamming the drone or using a dominated krogan berserker.At least the last option was really funny.
More option=more interesting.Why someone would like silly restriction like the "protection system" in MAss Effect  is beyond me.

Because it makes the gameplay more interesting. It requires you to use more of your weapons and rely more on squad members.

And what was great to is that Mass Effect Squadmembers were nearly equal when it comes to the number of powers and their reload times.Even their dps wasnt as bad as now.(i mean,45 percent less damage with the vindicator)

They're not meant to be as good as you. They're your support you shouldn't have to rely on them.

So you prefer less choices?
(Sorry thought the bolded was funny)

And some people choose to play "gimped" characters in RPG instead of min/maxed. 

Modifié par Dudeman315, 24 mai 2010 - 05:20 .

[finnithe]

Could you guys remove that completely unfounded signature of yours? It's pretty obnoxious to just state that ME2 ignores story for action, especially in an area where no one can respond to you and you cannot provide any evidence.

In any case, I can assure you that very, very few people play "gimped" characters in RPG's. Games should not be broken as easily as ME1 is. The game-breaking items literally come out of every orifice in that game. I should not have to purposefully gimp my character to make the game challenging; it should be challenging regardless.

Regardless of what uberdowzen said squad members are very important, an I had no problem with how much damage they did with their guns or powers. I depended on Miranda for her Cerberus Leader and Warp powers, and I depended on my other squad mates for their powers too. Miranda and Thane were especially helpful because I was able to cap off Warp Explosion combos when I laid down a Singularity.

I don't understand why no one ever addresses the points I make. Are they bad? Are they too good? Are you guys just uninterested in what I have to say? I can certainly see ME3's cover system being improved by adding in cover gestures as seen in Gears of War.

EDIT: Also, now that I think of it, it seems very convenient that outside of TIM, Jacob, and Miranda, no one knew of Shepard's revival. I think TIM was cleaning house, though it's still unclear to me what he wanted to do.

Modifié par finnithe, 24 mai 2010 - 06:06 .

[KitsuneRommel]

tonnactus wrote...

Read the full the description.This couldnt be so difficult.There is something stated about damage reduction,that reduces the protection of armor.And all enemies is Mass Effect had armor.

Warp doesn't work against shields though. Anyone know if armor mitigation is calculated before or after shields anyway?

I don't even remember what this argument was all about.

[KitsuneRommel]

A_y0ner_ wrote...

As for the loading screens and mission complete screens, I think everyone agress with you. I personally didn't understand why everyone was complaining about the loading times in the elevator. I thought they were a great idea and I didn't think they were particularly long.

[KitsuneRommel]

finnithe wrote...

Regardless of what uberdowzen said squad members are very important, an I had no problem with how much damage they did with their guns or powers. I depended on Miranda for her Cerberus Leader and Warp powers, and I depended on my other squad mates for their powers too. Miranda and Thane were especially helpful because I was able to cap off Warp Explosion combos when I laid down a Singularity.

Me neither. I used Miranda and Garrus with my adept for 2 overloads and 2 warps.

[finnithe]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Read the full the description.This couldnt be so difficult.There is something stated about damage reduction,that reduces the protection of armor.And all enemies is Mass Effect had armor.

Warp doesn't work against shields though. Anyone know if armor mitigation is calculated before or after shields anyway?

I don't even remember what this argument was all about.

It's a bad mechanic if you have to ask about it. It was never really explained in the game how that worked, was it? Conversely, it's explained very well that the more rapid-firing a weapon is, the better it is against barriers and shields, while its stuff like shotguns and sniper rifles that are able to effectively punch through armor. 

[Arwyl]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Lol  I never even realised they were that long!

[uberdowzen]

Dudeman315 wrote...

So you prefer less choices?
(Sorry thought the bolded was funny)

And some people choose to play "gimped" characters in RPG instead of min/maxed. 

Lol. Oops, didn't really think that through...

In the second bolded part, rely is the wrong word. They're not meant to be as good as you, they're meant to provide support. They're not essential but you need them to be effective more than in ME1. You're still the main character and therefore I don't see any problem with you being more powerful (anyway it's always irritating when the AI steals your kills).

[KitsuneRommel]

finnithe wrote...

It's a bad mechanic if you have to ask about it. It was never really explained in the game how that worked, was it? Conversely, it's explained very well that the more rapid-firing a weapon is, the better it is against barriers and shields, while its stuff like shotguns and sniper rifles that are able to effectively punch through armor. 

It becomes fun when you actually try to figure out how much +14% Mobile Accuracy, +12% Damage Protection, +20% Hardening, +50% Physics Threshold, +21% Weapon Stability, +12% Weapon Accuracy, etc. actually help.

For example if your armor has 22 Damage protection does the +12% DP make it 24,64 or 34? Immunity also increases DP. Is it capped, does it have diminishing returns or can you be totally immune to damage with it? It's strange that it's really hard to find solid information about those.

[KitsuneRommel]

Dudeman315 wrote...

And some people choose to play "gimped" characters in RPG instead of min/maxed. 

I don't know how you can play gimped character in ME though unless you just don't spend your points. Perhaps "non-optimal" would be a better term.

But on the multiplayer scene I used to do that a lot. Dual pistols or throwing knives when others ran around with M4s, using sniper rifles unzoomed, etc.

[UltraBoy360]

Terror_K wrote...

uberdowzen wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

I fail to see how this proves anything. If one took Gears of War and simply added dialogue wheels that effected the outcome of things it would probably be closer to Mass Effect 2 than Mass Effect 2 is to Mass Effect 1.

My point is that the kind of people who love games like Gears of War and CoD aren't the same kind of people who love games like Mass Effect. ME2 was not made for those people (BW may have tried to expand their audience a little bit) on the whole the game was to appeal to the kind people who like BW RPGs.

Hah! That's a laugh. If that were the case, I and many others wouldn't be dissatisfied and keep saying that ME2 has been dumbed down.

Sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, BioWare made ME2 first and foremost for a mainstream audience, and simply hoped their old fans would be loyal enough to follow them based on their past work. The narrative, cinematic style and story may still be geared to the older, nerdier BioWare audience of old, but the gameplay is definitely for the average modern gamer. It's practically gotten "Rebranded for a younger, modern audience" all over it, much like J.J. Abrams Star Trek or pretty much any movie remake in the last decade.

Both ME1 and 2 kinda remind me of JJ's Star Trek (maybe it's all the lens flare), but I was thinking the other day - Star Trek 2009 reminds me more of ME1. They both have more straightforward 'hero's journey narratives' - y'know... young officer thrust into a new role must prove himself while a eeeevil villain threatens galactic destruction.

ME2 is more Deep Space Nine to me. A more sophisticated exploration of personal stories/motivations/choices as well as a really interesting look a the socio-economic structure of the various races. To me, ME2 offered so much more depth to the Krogan, Asari etc reminiscent of DS9's exploration of Bajoran, Cardassian, Klingon cultures. It was ME2 that made me really care about the galaxy after only thinking it was cool in ME1. It's make the stakes in ME3 so much more meaningful to me (in the way the first 5 season's of DS9 built up the stakes prior to the Dominion War).

Plus the great grey areas of DS9 are really similar to the uneasy feelings I had in ME2 when dealing with the Geth virus and particularly debating the Genophage with Mordin.

Just my opinion of course.  

[Ecael]

UltraBoy360 wrote...

Both ME1 and 2 kinda remind me of JJ's Star Trek (maybe it's all the lens flare), but I was thinking the other day - Star Trek 2009 reminds me more of ME1. They both have more straightforward 'hero's journey narratives' - y'know... young officer thrust into a new role must prove himself while a eeeevil villain threatens galactic destruction.

ME2 is more Deep Space Nine to me. A more sophisticated exploration of personal stories/motivations/choices as well as a really interesting look a the socio-economic structure of the various races. To me, ME2 offered so much more depth to the Krogan, Asari etc reminiscent of DS9's exploration of Bajoran, Cardassian, Klingon cultures. It was ME2 that made me really care about the galaxy after only thinking it was cool in ME1. It's make the stakes in ME3 so much more meaningful to me (in the way the first 5 season's of DS9 built up the stakes prior to the Dominion War).

Plus the great grey areas of DS9 are really similar to the uneasy feelings I had in ME2 when dealing with the Geth virus and particularly debating the Genophage with Mordin.

Just my opinion of course. 

This is exactly it. Mass Effect 2's story (and stories) were built upon the solid foundation laid out by Mass Effect 1. Legion and Mordin have tons of available dialogue about the geth, quarians and genophage, and all the races in general became much more personified - especially krogan.

http://social.biowar...5/index/1921334

As Onyx Jaguar mentioned before, many of the major plots - yes, plural - were expanded upon. People seem to be focusing just on the Reaper plot itself without realizing the other storylines set in motion by Mass Effect 1.

Those who think that the game's main story is just about the Reapers are being short-sighted. If Mass Effect 1/2 were 6 hour single player games like other shooters, then we could criticize for not focusing too much on the Collectors. However, because the story deals with the entire galaxy, to say that it's ONLY the Reapers and humans that matter in the plot is to stick to that same kind of thinking that people have when they play shooters - Good vs. Evil and nothing in-between.

Also, Sovereign in ME1 and Harbinger in ME2 have the same number of useful lines (if you listen to everything they have to say). Most of their dialogue consists of intimidating lines like "LOL HUMANS" and "ENDING GALAXY NAO".

[Dudeman315]

finnithe wrote...

1) Could you guys remove that completely unfounded signature of yours? It's pretty obnoxious to just state that ME2 ignores story for action, especially in an area where no one can respond to you and you cannot provide any evidence.

2) In any case, I can assure you that very, very few people play "gimped" characters in RPG's. Games should not be broken as easily as ME1 is. The game-breaking items literally come out of every orifice in that game. I should not have to purposefully gimp my character to make the game challenging; it should be challenging regardless.

Regardless of what uberdowzen said squad members are very important, an I had no problem with how much damage they did with their guns or powers. I depended on Miranda for her Cerberus Leader and Warp powers, and I depended on my other squad mates for their powers too. Miranda and Thane were especially helpful because I was able to cap off Warp Explosion combos when I laid down a Singularity.

I don't understand why no one ever addresses the points I make. Are they bad? Are they too good? Are you guys just uninterested in what I have to say? I can certainly see ME3's cover system being improved by adding in cover gestures as seen in Gears of War.

EDIT: Also, now that I think of it, it seems very convenient that outside of TIM, Jacob, and Miranda, no one knew of Shepard's revival. I think TIM was cleaning house, though it's still unclear to me what he wanted to do.

1)I'll remove it when all of the following occur in ME2: Removal of thermal clips, change to a Cohesive plot vs the piece meal plot, no infinite respawn enemies, and we have non-combat alterative ways to solve missions.

2)I and many of my gamer groups about 100 people total have played very much less than optimal characters.  I've also played serveral video games that I really like with new challenges(RE knife and boss runs).  No you should have the same difficulty all the way through.  At max level you should be significantly more powerful than at level 1.  This is how RPGs work.  When ever I hear this challeng should remain the same all I can think of is the gituar hero kiddies screaming that through the fire and the flames on expert is way too easy anf should be the default casual difficulty for the next game.  I for one like to that moment where I go from barely winning every fight to knowing I can take these guys every fight as it shows that I'm leveling up and not just multiplying nmber across the board.

[KitsuneRommel]

Dudeman315 wrote...
At max level you should be significantly more powerful than at level 1.  This is how RPGs work.

Also your enemies should be significantly more powerful at that point. Which doesn't happen in ME.

[SkullandBonesmember]

finnithe wrote...

Could you guys remove that completely unfounded signature of yours?

And I don't use a "gimp" Shepard.

Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 24 mai 2010 - 12:05 .

[Arwyl]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Dudeman315 wrote...
At max level you should be significantly more powerful than at level 1.  This is how RPGs work.

Also your enemies should be significantly more powerful at that point. Which doesn't happen in ME.

Not the same enemies, those should stay the same through the game and thus get easier and easier to beat as you get better, because that's the whole point of leveling up and gaining skill points. But I agree that, as you get more powerful, you should regularly have to face new enemies that do pose a challenge.