10273 réponses à ce sujet

[KitsuneRommel]

tonnactus wrote...

And in practice,it works as good as overload(even better because of no reload time),except that it doesnt detonate explosive containers.(only good for killing husks anyway)

No. That depends on what class you play really (and difficulty). I know I've mentioned it few times already but my "ideal" squad in ME2 was me as an adept, Garrus for overload and squad AP ammo and Miranda for overload and warp.

[tonnactus]

uberdowzen wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

And how is this different from the current system??

Um, how does this have any relevance to the current system? And if it's the same, how come ME2 is apparently so much worse than ME1?

In both games players became effective at late points anyway.What is worse?The tech/biotic system where a lot of powers didnt work when enemies have shields,barrier or armor.

But the combat drone is very useful, you have to think about whether to use it or not.

Do you really try to defend a 30 s cooldown for the combat drone of squadmates????
12 would be okay(like with all other powers),but not 30 s including the global cooldown.Its just complete retarded.
I have to set the powers of my squad to manual to avoid that tali use the drone when i dont want it.

Really?The best specialists in the galaxy shouldnt be nearly equal compared with shepardt.

I ask again.In the first game your squadmates were already equal.There didnt exist any good reason why they changed it.

[tonnactus]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

No. That depends on what class you play really (and difficulty). I know I've mentioned it few times already but my "ideal" squad in ME2 was me as an adept, Garrus for overload and squad AP ammo and Miranda for overload and warp.

For me it works for all classes.And i played all classes on insanity.Overload is pointless compared with disruptor.

[CroGamer002]

tonnactus wrote...

But the combat drone is very useful, you have to think about whether to use it or not.

Do you really try to defend a 30 s cooldown for the combat drone of squadmates????
12 would be okay(like with all other powers),but not 30 s including the global cooldown.Its just complete retarded.
I have to set the powers of my squad to manual to avoid that tali use the drone when i dont want it.

If you are engineer then is like 2-3 seconds.

Also drones are VERY usefull.
They flush out enemy from cover, damage sheilds( even health if level 4) and distracte charging enemy( like Krogans).

[CroGamer002]

tonnactus wrote...

KitsuneRommel wrote...

No. That depends on what class you play really (and difficulty). I know I've mentioned it few times already but my "ideal" squad in ME2 was me as an adept, Garrus for overload and squad AP ammo and Miranda for overload and warp.

For me it works for all classes.And i played all classes on insanity.Overload is pointless compared with disruptor.

Not all classes have disruptor ammo.

[tonnactus]

Mesina2 wrote...


If you are engineer then is like 2-3 seconds.
.

I wrote this about the drones of squadmates who have a absurd reload time of 30 s.10 times as high as shepards.

[tonnactus]

Mesina2 wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

KitsuneRommel wrote...

No. That depends on what class you play really (and difficulty). I know I've mentioned it few times already but my "ideal" squad in ME2 was me as an adept, Garrus for overload and squad AP ammo and Miranda for overload and warp.

For me it works for all classes.And i played all classes on insanity.Overload is pointless compared with disruptor.

Not all classes have disruptor ammo.

But zaeed have it and he and his mission was free.

[CroGamer002]

tonnactus wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

KitsuneRommel wrote...

No. That depends on what class you play really (and difficulty). I know I've mentioned it few times already but my "ideal" squad in ME2 was me as an adept, Garrus for overload and squad AP ammo and Miranda for overload and warp.

For me it works for all classes.And i played all classes on insanity.Overload is pointless compared with disruptor.

Not all classes have disruptor ammo.

But zaeed have it and he and his mission was free.

And how is overload useless compering to disruptor ammo?
Did you even upgrade overload for your squadmates?

[finnithe]

Mesina2 wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

KitsuneRommel wrote...

No. That depends on what class you play really (and difficulty). I know I've mentioned it few times already but my "ideal" squad in ME2 was me as an adept, Garrus for overload and squad AP ammo and Miranda for overload and warp.

For me it works for all classes.And i played all classes on insanity.Overload is pointless compared with disruptor.

Not all classes have disruptor ammo.

But zaeed have it and he and his mission was free.

And how is overload useless compering to disruptor ammo?
Did you even upgrade overload for your squadmates?

This discussion is tangential to the debate at large. It'd be nice if you guys could get back on topic.

[uberdowzen]

tonnactus wrote...

In both games players became effective at late points anyway.What is worse?The tech/biotic system where a lot of powers didnt work when enemies have shields,barrier or armor.

Hmm, let's see, which is better. I think I'm going for the one that actually requires you to use some tactics.

Do you really try to defend a 30 s cooldown for the combat drone of squadmates????
12 would be okay(like with all other powers),but not 30 s including the global cooldown.Its just complete retarded.
I have to set the powers of my squad to manual to avoid that tali use the drone when i dont want it.

"Retarded" isn't a nice word. I've never really had this problem, so, whatever.

I ask again.In the first game your squadmates were already equal.There didnt exist any good reason why they changed it.

You're just thinking of it in terms of "What if ME1 had this system?" You're totally right, if ME1 had squad members like in ME2 it wouldn't work. Good thing that they're not though, isn't it? I'd actually argue whether they're that much weaker, they have fewer powers and weapons and they get killed a bit too often because the AI isn't great (a problem that it shares with ME1) but otherwise they're not actually that weak.

[spacehamsterZH]

So I'm replaying ME1 for the first time in quite a bit, and something occurs to me... this complaint about how it seems like in ME2 you're going around running errands and helping your squadmates deal with their personal issues while the main plot isn't being advanced just seems even more silly now that I'm knee-deep in ME1 and able to draw a more immediate comparison.

I'll say this right off the bat - yes, the main quest missions in ME1 are better. But there's how many of these? Not counting Liara's rescue, which is really just a tunnel shooter mission, there's Feros, Noveria, Virmire and the endgame, and that's it. I'm half tempted to replay the game doing only these missions and clock myself, I'm guessing I'd come in at 12 hours at the most. The rest of the game's play time is spent doing things like listening to a Turian general whining about how the hooker he's in love with won't run away with him while the galaxy might be wiped out any second. Seriously, the side quests have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the Reaper threat, and they take up at least as much time as the main quests, the rest being inventory management and running around between vendors.

And then there's the complaint about the immersion breakers in ME2... apparently a mission complete screen completely ruins the experience for some people, but being told (as opposed to actually seeing it happen) my character has just inserted an Asari trinket into a Prothean artifact, followed by three full screens of text recounting a hallucination that apparently feels like it lasts months... that's somehow acceptable.

Modifié par spacehamsterZH, 24 mai 2010 - 10:27 .

[uberdowzen]

@ tonnactus, I'd also like to point out that considering the recharge time is so different between Shepherd's recharge time and companions that there's probably a very good reason it's like that.

[uberdowzen]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

So I'm replaying ME1 for the first time in quite a bit, and something occurs to me... this complaint about how it seems like in ME2 you're going around running errands and helping your squadmates deal with their personal issues while the main plot isn't being advanced just seems even more silly now that I'm knee-deep in ME1 and able to draw a more immediate comparison.

I'll say this right off the bat - yes, the main quest missions in ME1 are better. But there's how many of these? Not counting Liara's rescue, which is really just a tunnel shooter mission, there's Feros, Noveria, Virmire and the endgame, and that's it. I'm half tempted to replay the game doing only these missions and clock myself, I'm guessing I'd come in at 12 hours at the most. The rest of the game's play time is spent doing things like listening to a Turian general whining about how the hooker he's in love with won't run away with him while the galaxy might be wiped out any second. Seriously, the side quests have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the Reaper threat, and they take up at least as much time as the main quests, the rest being inventory management and running around between vendors.

And then there's the complaint about the immersion breakers in ME2... apparently a mission complete screen completely ruins the experience for some people, but being told (as opposed to actually seeing it happen) my character has just inserted an Asari trinket into a Prothean artifact, followed by three full screens of text recounting a hallucination that apparently feels like it lasts months... that's somehow acceptable.

You, sir, are the reason I don't completely give up on humanity. And for the record, I've done a minimalist playthrough and it took about 10 hours. I'll just load up ME1 and take a look...

[uberdowzen]

...I've got one at 11 hours and one at 14. The one at 14 isn't mine though so I don't know how many side quests were done (my guess would be a few), so just go with the 11 hour one.

[Sidney]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

I'll say this right off the bat - yes, the main quest missions in ME1 are better. But there's how many of these? Not counting Liara's rescue, which is really just a tunnel shooter mission, there's Feros, Noveria, Virmire and the endgame, and that's it. I'm half tempted to replay the game doing only these missions and clock myself, I'm guessing I'd come in at 12 hours at the most. The rest of the game's play time is spent doing things like listening to a Turian general whining about how the hooker he's in love with won't run away with him while the galaxy might be wiped out any second. Seriously, the side quests have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the Reaper threat, and they take up at least as much time as the main quests, the rest being inventory management and running around between vendors.

The timing of ME1 makes no sense. At least with ME2 there's a reason you have time to do minor stuff (waiting for intel, waiting for the next attack), with ME1 all that Moon Patrol stuff is 100% ridiculous. You are correct that a lot of the game is sucked up in non-content rich periods of driving back and forth on empty wastelands and trying to find your way around a cliff and tthen the "plot" element is invading that same warehouse building.

[KitsuneRommel]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

So I'm replaying ME1 for the first time in quite a bit, and something occurs to me... this complaint about how it seems like in ME2 you're going around running errands and helping your squadmates deal with their personal issues while the main plot isn't being advanced just seems even more silly now that I'm knee-deep in ME1 and able to draw a more immediate comparison.

I'll say this right off the bat - yes, the main quest missions in ME1 are better. But there's how many of these? Not counting Liara's rescue, which is really just a tunnel shooter mission, there's Feros, Noveria, Virmire and the endgame, and that's it. I'm half tempted to replay the game doing only these missions and clock myself, I'm guessing I'd come in at 12 hours at the most. The rest of the game's play time is spent doing things like listening to a Turian general whining about how the hooker he's in love with won't run away with him while the galaxy might be wiped out any second. Seriously, the side quests have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the Reaper threat, and they take up at least as much time as the main quests, the rest being inventory management and running around between vendors.

I'm not going to take sides in this particular debate since I love both games but I just reached level 45 and so far I've only done side missions and rescued Liara (Which was funny. The damn hard to kill Krogan died after I pushed Singularity, Warp and Assassination. 5 seconds for the last boss? Pathetic.

Edit: Ok I didn't mean to imply that the more vocal critics hate ME1. Sorry for that.

Modifié par KitsuneRommel, 24 mai 2010 - 10:44 .

[bjdbwea]

Sidney wrote...

The timing of ME1 makes no sense. At least with ME2 there's a reason you have time to do minor stuff (waiting for intel, waiting for the next attack), with ME1 all that Moon Patrol stuff is 100% ridiculous. You are correct that a lot of the game is sucked up in non-content rich periods of driving back and forth on empty wastelands and trying to find your way around a cliff and then the "plot" element is invading that same warehouse building.

Guess what. All that "Moon Patrol stuff" is 100% optional. You find the side quests that are part of any good RPG unrealistic, just ignore them. Your loss, but at least you played the game 100% realistically. Except for all the other unrealistic stuff that you happen to like and therefore don't complain about of course.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 24 mai 2010 - 11:11 .

[uberdowzen]

bjdbwea wrote...

Guess what. All that "Moon Patrol stuff" is 100% optional. You find the side quests that are part of any good RPG unrealistic, just ignore them. Your loss, but at least you played the game 100% realistically. Except for all the other unrealistic stuff that you happen to like and therefore don't complain about of course.

So, how is that any different from the apparently terrible, "go help a whole load of aliens fix their problems" story of  ME2?

[tonnactus]

[quote]uberdowzen wrote...

Hmm, let's see, which is better. I think I'm going for the one that actually requires you to use some tactics.

[/quote]

Lets made something clear.You played the first game only on veteran,right?
What difficulty did you choose in the second game? I hope you dont say that Mass Effect 2 on veteran requires any tactics....
But for sure Mass Effect requires tactics at least at the beginning of insanity.The 3 krogans in the ferros tunnels without at least one biotic?Just forget it. Just to point it out,tactics dont matter much in Mass Effect 2,even on insanity.
They just improves your killing speed.And there is always the cain for worst cases.

[quote]
"Retarded" isn't a nice word. I've never really had this problem, so, whatever.

[quote]

I ask again.In the first game your squadmates were already equal.There didnt exist any good reason why they changed it.

[/quote]

The combat drone is a completely useless ability for squadmebers with this cooldown.There is nothing to discuss about it.

[tonnactus]

uberdowzen wrote...



So, how is that any different from the apparently terrible, "go help a whole load of aliens fix their problems" story of  ME2?

They are not optional by any means.The collector ship mission will be only triggered after at least two loaylity missions.

[Dudeman315]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

finnithe wrote...

tonnactus wrote...
Overload is so pointless to have for squadmates.

On the other hand, I prefer using Squad A/P ammo because it also has bonuses against Health while using Miranda's Area Overload and my squad's submachine guns to take out shields.

Overload is NOT useless.

Wiki quotes following:
Overload:
It shuts down an enemy's shields, rendering them vulnerable to attack.
Overload is typically used to take down shields or synthetics, but will
also cause any unshielded enemies using flamethrowers to explode.
Starting at rank 3, Overload will cause enemy weapons to overheat,
making them unable to fire for a brief period. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/surprised.pngIt also does double
damage versus shields. It can also be used on explosive containers to
make them denonate more violently for added damage.


Disruptor Ammo:
When activated, the player's weapon is empowered and causes additional damage
to shields and synthetic enemies, and has a chance
of temporarily disabling synthetic enemies and overheating enemy
weapons.../../../images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png

Wait wouldn't that only delay them the time it takes to eject and replace a thermal clip?

"While organic arms manufacturers were initially doubtful this would
produce a net gain, a well-trained soldier can eject and swap thermal
clips in under a second."

Or are are enemies using ME1 weapons cause I would grab one off a dead merc and use it the rest of the game.../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png

Also for the record I never said anything negitive about shooters or their fans but if MW2 changed combat to character stat based shooting, I'd be equally unhappy with it.  Granted I've never touched anything except multiplayer in any CoD game but I wouldn't want such a drastic change in a game series especially if it's a trilogy.

Modifié par Dudeman315, 25 mai 2010 - 01:01 .

[uberdowzen]

tonnactus wrote...

Lets made something clear.You played the first game only on veteran,right?

Nope, played through at Insanity.

What difficulty did you choose in the second game? I hope you dont say that Mass Effect 2 on veteran requires any tactics....

Oh well. Yes it does require tactics.

But for sure Mass Effect requires tactics at least at the beginning of insanity.The 3 krogans in the ferros tunnels without at least one biotic?Just forget it.

How is that a tactic. That seems more like if you forget to take a biotic, you're screwed.

Just to point it out,tactics dont matter much in Mass Effect 2,even on insanity.
They just improves your killing speed.And there is always the cain for worst cases.

Tactics shouldn't be essential, but they should make you a lot more efficient. ME1 doesn't really even have that. I think there are tactics in ME1, they're just not as well realised.

I ask again.In the first game your squadmates were already equal.There didnt exist any good reason why they changed it.

The combat drone is a completely useless ability for squadmebers with this cooldown.There is nothing to discuss about it.

Oh, I'm very sorry. I didn't realise that you must obviously be right. Silly, silly me. I might as well give up now, there's nothing to argue over...

I often use the combat drone to distract Harbinger. Obviously this must be a bad tactic, but even so I do it. It's gotten me out of quite a few bad situations.

[uberdowzen]

worm_burner wrote...

In ME1 the quests aren't force onto you.  The way they are set up in  ME2 almost doesn't make them feel optional.  I'll be at the galaxy map and here for a seventh time "so and so would like to speak to you".  ME1 made you at least talk to the members first before they opened up and gave you a mission.

So? No one is forcing you to do them. Bioware is just trying to encourage you to do these quests (I actually managed to miss all the companion quests on my first playthrough of ME1). It also helps that they're a lot better than ME1's.

[Dudeman315]

uberdowzen wrote...


Tactics shouldn't be essential, but they should make you a lot more efficient. ME1 doesn't really even have that. I think there are tactics in ME1, they're just not as well realised.

I wholeheartedly disagree with your bolded opinion but it helps me to see why we are on diffrent sides of the fence.

"Every battle is won before it is ever fought"-Sun Tzu from the Art of War