10273 réponses à ce sujet

[uberdowzen]

tonnactus wrote...

Wrong.Stopping saren was the first goal.After some main missions shepardt then learn that he is only a puppet,used by a reaper.Find out,where/what the conduit is and how to get to the place.A lot of investigation.

But he/she has absolutely no idea what the conduit is of if it even exists, how they're going to catch Saren or for that matter where he even is.

We know exactly nothing.Is this really the only base?Is it on a planet?How strong are the defences?

That's why you're building the suicide team. How else are you meant to find out about it's defences without going through the Omega 4 relay?

But the team isnt diverse.Not in gameplay and they dont have any special roles that only they could do.Three people could do the biotic bubble.Three people could to the hacking.3 people could be good leaders.(2 of them could do it for unknown reasons except garrus)

In gameplay terms, they're fairly diverse. And why does it matter?

[Iakus]

uberdowzen wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Wrong.Stopping saren was the first goal.After some main missions shepardt then learn that he is only a puppet,used by a reaper.Find out,where/what the conduit is and how to get to the place.A lot of investigation.

But he/she has absolutely no idea what the conduit is of if it even exists, how they're going to catch Saren or for that matter where he even is.

Thus the investigation.  Seeking out the Prothean expert, checking out why geth are interested in Feros, etc.  Not just waiting for a benevolent billionaire with wierd eyes to drop the info into your lap.

We know exactly nothing.Is this really the only base?Is it on a planet?How strong are the defences?

That's why you're building the suicide team. How else are you meant to find out about it's defences without going through the Omega 4 relay?

Personally, I'd start with unmanned probes and work my way up. Seriously, does no one watch Stargate reruns in the future?

Of course, I've got a crazy theory that TIM secretly hoped everyone on the Suicide Mission would die anyway

But the team isnt diverse.Not in gameplay and they dont have any special roles that only they could do.Three people could do the biotic bubble.Three people could to the hacking.3 people could be good leaders.(2 of them could do it for unknown reasons except garrus)

In gameplay terms, they're fairly diverse. And why does it matter?

To me, they were pretty diverse, just...useless.  If you're going to recreuit 10-12 people for a big dangerous mission, strywise, each one should be given a moment to shine on the mission.  That doesn't happen here.

Modifié par iakus, 25 mai 2010 - 08:45 .

[SkullandBonesmember]

uberdowzen wrote...

Yes, I'd enjoy that. And why would my thumbs be getting twitchy, I use my thumb to take cover and interact.

Well..... if you say so I'll take your word for it.

And the thumb reference was just a figure of speech.

[uberdowzen]

iakus wrote...

Thus the investigation.  Seeking out the Prothean expert, checking out why geth are interested in Feros, etc.  Not just waiting for a benevolent billionaire with wierd eyes to drop the info into your lap.

But then ME2 would be exactly the same as ME1. I quite liked the fact that you had to rely on the Illusive Man, and it's only for one game.

Personally, I'd start with unmanned probes and work my way up. Seriously, does no one watch Stargate reruns in the future?

Of course, I've got a crazy theory that TIM secretly hoped everyone on the Suicide Mission would die anyway

Possibly, you never know.

To me, they were pretty diverse, just...useless.  If you're going to recreuit 10-12 people for a big dangerous mission, strywise, each one should be given a moment to shine on the mission.  That doesn't happen here.

Yeah, that was actually my main problem with the suicide mission, it was too dynamic. It didn't really seem to treat any of the deaths as anything particurly special. On the other hand, anyone can die which is pretty cool.

[uberdowzen]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Well..... if you say so I'll take your word for it.

And the thumb reference was just a figure of speech.

Gotcha.

[Lumikki]

uberdowzen wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Wrong.Stopping saren was the first goal.After some main missions shepardt then learn that he is only a puppet,used by a reaper.Find out,where/what the conduit is and how to get to the place.A lot of investigation.

But he/she has absolutely no idea what the conduit is of if it even exists, how they're going to catch Saren or for that matter where he even is.

Is anyone be able to answer, why was Saren looking the conduit?
Because I don't really know any reason why he would need it.

[Tempest]

Lumikki wrote...

uberdowzen wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Wrong.Stopping saren was the first goal.After some main missions shepardt then learn that he is only a puppet,used by a reaper.Find out,where/what the conduit is and how to get to the place.A lot of investigation.

But he/she has absolutely no idea what the conduit is of if it even exists, how they're going to catch Saren or for that matter where he even is.

Is anyone be able to answer, why was Saren looking the conduit?
Because I don't really know any reason why he would need it.

this is just my own thesis.   The conduit was plan B just in case plan A did not panout.  Which was to get a "drone" to use the conduit to (teleport) infiltrate into the citadel to activate a device that signals to the "sleeping" reapers that it is time to wake up and cause mass destruction again.  Plan A was for the Keepers to do it in a stealthy manner, but they were tampered with.

[Iakus]

[quote]uberdowzen wrote...

[quote]iakus wrote...

Thus the investigation.  Seeking out the Prothean expert, checking out why geth are interested in Feros, etc.  Not just waiting for a benevolent billionaire with wierd eyes to drop the info into your lap.[/quote]

But then ME2 would be exactly the same as ME1. I quite liked the fact that you had to rely on the Illusive Man, and it's only for one game.

[/quote]

I absolutely hated being dependant on him.  And one game=2 more years til payoff. 

And you can keep the feeling of exploring the deep dark secrets of the galaxy without without making it "exactly the same as ME1"  In fact, I'd go so far as to say that in ME 2, one mission was pretty much like another.  Kill a bunch of mercs, make job offer, go back to ship.  Repeat.  Loyalty missions mix it up a bit more, but overall, one mission is much like another.

The mere fact that much of ME2 takes place in more urban enviroments can change the feel of the game, rather than the more frontier feel of ME 1.  ME 2 could have had a more corporate espionage feel to it, breaking into mercenary bases and hacking their computers to get info on their dealings with the Collectors.  We could have busted up trade deals between batarian slavers and Collectors  (with paragon/renegade points if you rescued the slaves or not)  We could have gone on missions for Aria, Liara, or even Anderson/Udina to get information on the Collectors.  maybe all of them.  Maybe some of the info is useful, maybe some of the info will only be useful in ME3, maybe some is even bad, and could alter how the suicide mission goes.  Knowledge is power.  Shepard was pretty much powerless in this game.

[quote]
[quote]

Personally, I'd start with unmanned probes and work my way up. Seriously, does no one watch Stargate reruns in the future?

Of course, I've got a crazy theory that TIM secretly hoped everyone on the Suicide Mission would die anyway [/quote]

Possibly, you never know.
[/quote]

If it turns out to be true, i won't know whether to laugh or cry.

[quote]

To me, they were pretty diverse, just...useless.  If you're going to recreuit 10-12 people for a big dangerous mission, strywise, each one should be given a moment to shine on the mission.  That doesn't happen here.[/quote]

Yeah, that was actually my main problem with the suicide mission, it was too dynamic. It didn't really seem to treat any of the deaths as anything particurly special. On the other hand, anyone can die which is pretty cool.

[/quote]
That's why I think there's too many squad members in ME2.  If you cut the squad in half, we might have gotten what we both wanted.  Personal stories and information gathering quests.


I tried to do a game where I would recruit the absolute minimum number of people I thought  I'd need to get through alive (six, Miranda, Jacob, Garrus, Mordin, Jack, Tali.  Leave Grunt in tank, don't turn on Legion)  That way everyone I recruited had an actual role to play.  Couldn't get the Collector ship mission to pop.  looks like you need at least eight recruits.  Lame.

[spacehamsterZH]

tonnactus wrote...
Really?You dont need a minimum of them to trigger the collector ship trap?

Hmm... probably. I wonder if you can do N7 missions instead, though. I've never tried this, can anyone confirm? If not, good point.

There arent some important weapon and armor upgrades in them?Good to know.

Those aren't required to finish the game, they just help. Moot point.

[Lumikki]

Tempest wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Is anyone be able to answer, why was Saren looking the conduit?
Because I don't really know any reason why he would need it.

this is just my own thesis.   The conduit was plan B just in case plan A did not panout.  Which was to get a "drone" to use the conduit to (teleport) infiltrate into the citadel to activate a device that signals to the "sleeping" reapers that it is time to wake up and cause mass destruction again.  Plan A was for the Keepers to do it in a stealthy manner, but they were tampered with.

Then how did Saren fix the situation, what did conduit had to do with?
I mean access to Citidel Saren had allready before losing specter status.
Ability transfer troops inside also, because the powerfull ship.
Why did Saren need the conduit?
Conduit was basicly teleport and it had nothign to do with keepers.

Modifié par Lumikki, 25 mai 2010 - 09:36 .

[SkullandBonesmember]

iakus wrote...

And you can keep the feeling of exploring the deep dark secrets of the galaxy without without making it "exactly the same as ME1"

+1

[Iakus]

Lumikki wrote...

uberdowzen wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Wrong.Stopping saren was the first goal.After some main missions shepardt then learn that he is only a puppet,used by a reaper.Find out,where/what the conduit is and how to get to the place.A lot of investigation.

But he/she has absolutely no idea what the conduit is of if it even exists, how they're going to catch Saren or for that matter where he even is.

Is anyone be able to answer, why was Saren looking the conduit?
Because I don't really know any reason why he would need it.

Saren needed the Conduit so he could board the Citadel while Sovereign's fleet attacked and kept C-Sec and the Citadel fleet busy.  With the Council evacuated, Saren could then manually open the relay, since even as a Spectre, it's doubtful they'd let him play around with the equipment in the Council chamber otherwise.

[Iakus]

Lumikki wrote...

Tempest wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Is anyone be able to answer, why was Saren looking the conduit?
Because I don't really know any reason why he would need it.

this is just my own thesis.   The conduit was plan B just in case plan A did not panout.  Which was to get a "drone" to use the conduit to (teleport) infiltrate into the citadel to activate a device that signals to the "sleeping" reapers that it is time to wake up and cause mass destruction again.  Plan A was for the Keepers to do it in a stealthy manner, but they were tampered with.

Then how did Saren fix the situation, what did conduit had to do with?
I mean access to Citidel Saren had allready before losing specter status.
Ability transfer troops inside also, because the powerfull ship.
Why did Saren need the conduit?
Conduit was basicly teleport and it had nothign to do with keepers.

The old way was for Sovereign to send a signal to the Citadel, telling the Keepers to open the relay.  The last of the Protheans used to Conduit to board the Citadel after the Reapers left, and changed things so the Keepers would no longer respond to that signal.  Saren was kinda the new Keeper for Sovereign.  Sovereign kept people looking at the big bad geth fleet on the Citadel's front lawn while Saren and some geth sneak in the back way.

And like I said, the controls were in the Council chambers, even a Spectre is unlikely to have free access to the equipment there.

[Lumikki]

iakus wrote...

Saren needed the Conduit so he could board the Citadel while Sovereign's fleet attacked and kept C-Sec and the Citadel fleet busy.  With the Council evacuated, Saren could then manually open the relay, since even as a Spectre, it's doubtful they'd let him play around with the equipment in the Council chamber otherwise.

Why not, he was they most trusted and best Specter?
He could invent any reason to look it, even with council's permission. Remember council had no clue what it really was.

iakus wrote...

And like I said, the controls were in the Council chambers, even a Spectre is unlikely to have free access to the equipment there.

All Specters have access to concil tower and the place where the control where. I walked there multible times with Shepard.

Modifié par Lumikki, 25 mai 2010 - 09:49 .

[KitsuneRommel]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

tonnactus wrote...
Really?You dont need a minimum of them to trigger the collector ship trap?

Hmm... probably. I wonder if you can do N7 missions instead, though. I've never tried this, can anyone confirm? If not, good point.

At least Mass Effect Wiki says so.

This mission is automatically triggered when you complete at least five
new missions — either loyalty, recruitment or even anomaly missions.

[KitsuneRommel]

iakus wrote...

And like I said, the controls were in the Council chambers, even a Spectre is unlikely to have free access to the equipment there.

The teleport didn't even take you to council chambers...

[spacehamsterZH]

KitsuneRommel wrote...
At least Mass Effect Wiki says so.

This mission is automatically triggered when you complete at least five
new missions — either loyalty, recruitment or even anomaly missions.

Well, okay then. You have to do something, but it doesn't have to be the loyalty quests. Of course that also means it's not really possible to only do the main missions like in ME1.

Which means ME2 is actually less of a linear pew-pew game for dumb, dumb shooter fans. *cough*

[Iakus]

Lumikki wrote...

iakus wrote...

Saren needed the Conduit so he could board the Citadel while Sovereign's fleet attacked and kept C-Sec and the Citadel fleet busy.  With the Council evacuated, Saren could then manually open the relay, since even as a Spectre, it's doubtful they'd let him play around with the equipment in the Council chamber otherwise.

Why not, he was they most trusted and best Specter?
He could invent any reason to look it, even with council's permission. Remember council had no clue what it really was.

iakus wrote...

And like I said, the controls were in the
Council chambers, even a Spectre is unlikely to have free access to the
equipment there.

All Specters have access to concil tower and the place where the control where. I walked there multible times with Shepard.

Access to the chambers, yes, access to the equipment, whihc nobody but the keepers seem to know what it's for?  There's trust, then there's trust.  Even the Council isn't stupid enough to let  someone play with something so potentially dangerous Even a Spectre (I believe)

[Iakus]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

iakus wrote...

And like I said, the controls were in the Council chambers, even a Spectre is unlikely to have free access to the equipment there.

The teleport didn't even take you to council chambers...

No but it gets you as far as the Presidium.  And Sovereign knew where the controls were.  Saren was one (long) elevator ride away from it, with no Council to interfere.

[tonnactus]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Garrus and Zaeed would make sense.Hell,even legion.He has the experience of a whole war in his memories.

Yes, he did form the Blue Suns but after that he's been a simple bounty hunter and besides after witnessing his actions during his loyalty mission would you REALLY let him lead a squad?

With the paragon option you could convince him that the mission is more important then personal goals.And it was a extreme situation.That man that shoot him in the head...
He was blind because of his hate.He isnt such a bad guy.

And Legion? Leading?

Why not.He has the experience from the whole "Morning War".(geth share their memories)

[Lumikki]

iakus wrote...
Access to the chambers, yes, access to the equipment, whihc nobody but the keepers seem to know what it's for?  There's trust, then there's trust.  Even the Council isn't stupid enough to let  someone play with something so potentially dangerous Even a Spectre (I believe)

Sorry that I keep insisting, but you know that Saren had all possibilities he needed, because the reaper had build the place. So, he had all needed knowledge to fix situation, because the reaper could just told what to do. He had access to place where he needed to be. Saying that he did not is just stupid. I walked next to that console all the time as Specter and no-one was there watching. It's pretty quiet place when council isn't there.

When I look ME1 story, I see allmost all Shepards action very logical, but Saren did something what he had no need to do. So, hole story was just run around galaxy for nothing. Because why was Saren looking the conduit before losing specter status. There is no single reason for it. That's the most biggest plot hole in ME1 story.

Modifié par Lumikki, 25 mai 2010 - 10:01 .

[tonnactus]

uberdowzen wrote...

That just seems to me that the player is being punished for not being able to predict or forgetting that he/she has to fight Krogan. If you forget the Biotic, you're screwed and have to go back to an earlier save point. Using Biotics to take down Krogan is a tactic, remembering to take a biotic is more like strategy/ESP.

You remeber,after choose several squadmembers,there was a combat,biotic,tech bar at the bottom.The game already told you to use a balanced squad.

[Iakus]

Lumikki wrote...

iakus wrote...
Access to the chambers, yes, access to the equipment, whihc nobody but the keepers seem to know what it's for?  There's trust, then there's trust.  Even the Council isn't stupid enough to let  someone play with something so potentially dangerous Even a Spectre (I believe)

Sorry that I keep insisting, but you know that Saren had all possibilities he needed, because the reaper had build the place. So, he had all needed knowledge to fix situation, because the reaper could just told what to do. He had access to place where he needed to be. Saying that he did not is just stupid. I walked next to that console all the time as Specter and no-one was there watching. It's pretty quiet place when council isn't there.

When I look ME1 story, I see allmost all Shepards action very logical, but Saren did something what he had no need to do. So, hole story was just run around galaxy for nothing. Because why was Saren looking the conduit before losing specter status. There is no single reason for it. That's the most biggest plot hole in ME1 story.

The only hole I see is there should have been more obvious security in the Council chambers, C-Sec agents, security cameras, maybe some remote guns.  Something more than Ashley noting that the stairs looked like they were designed to be very defensible in case of an attack.

[tonnactus]

uberdowzen wrote...


That's why you're building the suicide team. How else are you meant to find out about it's defences without going through the Omega 4 relay?

Using some probes?? Shepardt make a stupid blind attack at the collector base not even knowing if thats the only one that exists or anything about their defenses.For example,if the collectors have more then one cruiser.

[uberdowzen]

iakus wrote...

I absolutely hated being dependant on him.  And one game=2 more years til payoff. 

And you can keep the feeling of exploring the deep dark secrets of the galaxy without without making it "exactly the same as ME1"  In fact, I'd go so far as to say that in ME 2, one mission was pretty much like another.  Kill a bunch of mercs, make job offer, go back to ship.  Repeat.  Loyalty missions mix it up a bit more, but overall, one mission is much like another.

The mere fact that much of ME2 takes place in more urban enviroments can change the feel of the game, rather than the more frontier feel of ME 1.  ME 2 could have had a more corporate espionage feel to it, breaking into mercenary bases and hacking their computers to get info on their dealings with the Collectors.  We could have busted up trade deals between batarian slavers and Collectors  (with paragon/renegade points if you rescued the slaves or not)  We could have gone on missions for Aria, Liara, or even Anderson/Udina to get information on the Collectors.  maybe all of them.  Maybe some of the info is useful, maybe some of the info will only be useful in ME3, maybe some is even bad, and could alter how the suicide mission goes.  Knowledge is power.  Shepard was pretty much powerless in this game.

I have to disagree. The majority of ME1's missions were go somewhere, kill some Geth, make some descions, return to Normandy. I personally enjoyed the change in focus, but I can understand how you could dislike it.

That's why I think there's too many squad members in ME2.  If you cut the squad in half, we might have gotten what we both wanted.  Personal stories and information gathering quests.

I tried to do a game where I would recruit the absolute minimum number of people I thought  I'd need to get through alive (six, Miranda, Jacob, Garrus, Mordin, Jack, Tali.  Leave Grunt in tank, don't turn on Legion)  That way everyone I recruited had an actual role to play.  Couldn't get the Collector ship mission to pop.  looks like you need at least eight recruits.  Lame.

I'd argue though that getting a new companion is a really cool feeling.