10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecael]

iakus wrote...

Actually, I think I'm one of the very few who didn't mind the planet scanning minigame....

But while launcing spy probes to enter some random system may not be necessary, going through the relay which no one has returned from to go after an advanced race which can penetrate Normandy's stealth systems with unknown defenses a single ship of which took apart the original Normandy like a chicken might warrant just a little bit of caution.  Just me though

I doubt the Collectors were expecting anyone to:

(Highlight for spoilers):

-<Run into a scientist who knows how to repel the swarms>
-<Weaken a Collector Vessel and survive, finding out where the actual location of the base is>
-<Find a 37 million year old Reaper to extract the IFF without getting indoctrinated>
-<Integrate the IFF into a ship that has the technology of another defeated Reaper in it>
-<Have tech specialists and biotics strong enough to hack and shield their way through the main base>

So Shepard did spend the whole game taking a lot of caution and figuring out how to accomplish their mission. In both games, Shepard has a ridiculous sense of serendipity that allows her/him to be at the right place at the right time, every single time. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a story at all.

Modifié par Ecael, 26 mai 2010 - 01:03 .

[uberdowzen]

So that shoots down the idea of blockading  the relay, huh? 

Same reason you can't send a fleet into the traverse in ME1.

[Ariella]

iakus wrote...

Ariella wrote...

iakus wrote...


Study the IFF, build a smaller one, put it on a probe, send it through before you attach 30 million year old Reaper tech onto your 2 billion credit, brand-spanking new stealth frigate and go on a road trip

Small problem of a timelimit, since the whole idea is to prevent more colonies from disappearing. There really isn't time to reverse engineer a smaller IFF.

plus how large are you willing to build this probe? To power both the IFF and an all up comiciation system plus a VI to know when to send the info...

First part:  If the main goal was to prevent colonies from disappearing, A blockade on the relay would have solved a lot of problems while we took apart the IFF and studied it. With a few proximity nukes and a decent sized thanix-cannoned warship they could pull a Black Star on the Collectors

How's a blockade of the relay supposed to work? A) Cerebus just doesn't have that kind of man power to affect an effective blockade the only people who have the manpower are the Alliance or the other races of the Council who don't believe Cereberus in the first place C) even if they did believe they'd be leary of sending all that power into the Terminus systems because it might spark a war. D) even if all they did was mine the area, the Terminus systems might respond badly.

Second part  We'll never know at this point

Actually, it's a bit of common sense if you think about it. You need a power supply that will produce enough power for proposive systems, communications system, enough computing power for a VI that could analyse the information and send it back. That's a lot to fit into the body of a probe. And you have to understand, even with the ME technology, mass is the major limiting factor in pretty much any space based endeavor. 

Modifié par Ariella, 26 mai 2010 - 01:44 .

[rwilli80]

My biggest beef with the game was all the load screens. I get you need them when going to different areas, most notably for the loyalty missions, but from going from the Normandy to Omega why not just walk out of the airlock like we did in the first one. That is my only problem.

[Anwarddyn]

rwilli80 wrote...

My biggest beef with the game was all the load screens. I get you need them when going to different areas, most notably for the loyalty missions, but from going from the Normandy to Omega why not just walk out of the airlock like we did in the first one. That is my only problem.

I wouldn't say it is my biggest but that really bothers me too. Also the fact that the Normandy takes off if you go back onboard.. why did they have to change that? 

[Icinix]

Anwarddyn wrote...

rwilli80 wrote...

My biggest beef with the game was all the load screens. I get you need them when going to different areas, most notably for the loyalty missions, but from going from the Normandy to Omega why not just walk out of the airlock like we did in the first one. That is my only problem.

I wouldn't say it is my biggest but that really bothers me too. Also the fact that the Normandy takes off if you go back onboard.. why did they have to change that? 

Joker feeling the need to take off from every dock whenever you step back on the ship really irrates me too. 

[Iakus]

Ecael wrote...

I doubt the Collectors were expecting anyone to:

(Highlight for spoilers):

-
-
-
-
-

So Shepard did spend the whole game taking a lot of caution and figuring out how to accomplish their mission. In both games, Shepard has a ridiculous sense of serendipity that allows her/him to be at the right place at the right time, every single time. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a story at all.

In the first game, I think the only time Shepard was really in "right place, right time" was the beacon at Eden Prime.  The rest of the time he was simply very lucky that every single lead he had was dead on accurate.  I admit a few red herrings or false leads would add a bit of flavor to the games.

ME 2, it seems like TIM has a remarkable amount of foresight.  Almost like he knows exactly what Shepard needs, and gives him just enough information and resources to keep going.  Almost like he knew exactly what was going on, no?

[Iakus]

[quote]Ariella wrote...

How's a blockade of the relay supposed to work? A) Cerebus just doesn't have that kind of man power to affect an effective blockade the only people who have the manpower are the Alliance or the other races of the Council who don't believe Cereberus in the first place C) even if they did believe they'd be leary of sending all that power into the Terminus systems because it might spark a war. D) even if all they did was mine the area, the Terminus systems might respond badly.
[/quote]

We don't know what kind of manpower Cerberus has.  Given the turnover due to the number of them that get killed in experiments gone haywire, I'd say it's sizable.  If nothing else, they could keep two or three ships in the area to watch the relay and report the comings and going of the Collectors.  Maybe catch a single ship that's all by it's lonesome and jump it.

And you said yourself, nobody likes or trusts Cerberus.  If they mine the relay, hey, they're a terrorist organization, right?

[quote]

Second part  We'll never know at this point [/quote]

Actually, it's a bit of common sense if you think about it. You need a power supply that will produce enough power for proposive systems, communications system, enough computing power for a VI that could analyse the information and send it back. That's a lot to fit into the body of a probe. And you have to understand, even with the ME technology, mass is the major limiting factor in pretty much any space based endeavor. 

[/quote]

The Alliance had already used something similar decades before.  The only real question would be ow much extra room the IFF would take up and power requirements.  The espionage probes used in the First Contact War had fusion warheads in them in case they were tampered with.  I'm sure that could be taken out to make room if necessary

Heck worse comes to worst, load up a shuttle with a VI pilot,  the IFF, and any extra scanning equipment they can squeeze in and send it through.  It would be better than nothing.

[Cerberus_Avenger]

I think the only complaint that i have with the game as a whole is how they crippled the vanguard
other htan that i solemly LOVE the game
and amazingly enough...if any or everyone who knows me, they could even tell everyone here
it's the only game i play ridiculously too much
and i don't mean alot
i mean, like every single day
i play the other games 5% out of the time
and i play mass effect 2 100% of the time

but about the Vanguard?

I miss the way the vanguard was in the first one
but just imagining the vanguard with this simple setlist

INFERNO AMMO
DEEP CRYO AMMO
WARP
THROW
-whatever soldier Strength-
CHARGE
-extra special-

Seriously, i would have swapped the vanguard's powers of shockwave and pull with WARP and THROW

i think the reason why they did it all is because the vanguard would have been the most deadliest class.

Hopefully ME3 will make the vanguard/sentinel classes deadlier

[hex23]

iakus wrote...

We don't know what kind of manpower Cerberus has.  Given the turnover due to the number of them that get killed in experiments gone haywire, I'd say it's sizable.  If nothing else, they could keep two or three ships in the area to watch the relay and report the comings and going of the Collectors.  Maybe catch a single ship that's all by it's lonesome and jump it.

And you said yourself, nobody likes or trusts Cerberus.  If they mine the relay, hey, they're a terrorist organization, right?

Actually we do know what kind of manpower they have. EDI tells you. Cerberus is an extremely small organization, and definitely doesn't have the resoruces to randomly "jump" a Collector ship.

[Ecael]

iakus wrote...

In the first game, I think the only time Shepard was really in "right place, right time" was the beacon at Eden Prime.  The rest of the time he was simply very lucky that every single lead he had was dead on accurate.  I admit a few red herrings or false leads would add a bit of flavor to the games.

ME 2, it seems like TIM has a remarkable amount of foresight.  Almost like he knows exactly what Shepard needs, and gives him just enough information and resources to keep going.  Almost like he knew exactly what was going on, no?

That wasn't the only time he had good fortune working very much in his favor, though:

Highlight for spoilers:

<Recruited Ashley by running into her right after Jenkins dies>
<Ran into the dockworker to get the lead on Saren, right after Nihlus dies>
<Got to the beacon in Eden Prime to destroy it right on time>
<Recruited Garrus by running into him at the Council and at the Med Clinic>
<Recruited Wrex by running into him at Chora's Den and C-Sec>
<Recruited Tali by getting to her right before she was killed>
<Got the rare geth sound clip and managed to get the Turian Councilor to believe him>
<Became the first Human Spectre as a result, something that is often unheard of>
<Had the best stealth ship handed to him right as Anderson decided to retire>
<Recruited Liara by getting to her right before the Krogan Battlemaster did>
<Liara later knew the exact planet they needed to go to>
<Anoleis, Parasini and Lorik Qui'nn all happen to have garage passes>
<Shepard happens to run into three different ways to obtain passes from any of the three>
<Matriarch Benezia tells Shepard the location of the Mu Relay right before she dies>
<Shepard lands at Feros right as they're running out of water, energy and food>
<Runs into Lizbeth who gives Shepard the security clearance to find out about the Thorian>
<Run into Shiala who was previously helping Saren but decides to help you anyway>
<Arrive at Virmire camp with just the right number of people to start an attack on Saren's base>
<Arrive at the beacon right before Sovereign makes a u-turn back to force them to hurry>
<Shepard's team plants the explosive right before the geth and Saren arrive>
<The base alarm goes off right as Saren picks Shepard up to throw off the AA tower/choke to death>
<Shepard lands at Ilos right on top of Saren as he closes the door>
<Runs into Vigil to hand him the key to preventing the Citadel invasion>
<Shepard still gets to the Conduit right before it closes (40 seconds)>
<Shepard gets to Saren right as he accesses the console>
<Joker calls Shepard telling him that he's already assembled the Fifth Fleet>
<Sovereign implants himself into Saren so that killing Saren deactivates Sovereign's shields>
<Shepard manages to dodge the giant Reaper tentacle that was about to kill him>

[uberdowzen]

Cerberus_Avenger wrote...

I think the only complaint that i have with the game as a whole is how they crippled the vanguard
other htan that i solemly LOVE the game
and amazingly enough...if any or everyone who knows me, they could even tell everyone here
it's the only game i play ridiculously too much
and i don't mean alot
i mean, like every single day
i play the other games 5% out of the time
and i play mass effect 2 100% of the time

but about the Vanguard?

I miss the way the vanguard was in the first one
but just imagining the vanguard with this simple setlist

INFERNO AMMO
DEEP CRYO AMMO
WARP
THROW
-whatever soldier Strength-
CHARGE
-extra special-

Seriously, i would have swapped the vanguard's powers of shockwave and pull with WARP and THROW

i think the reason why they did it all is because the vanguard would have been the most deadliest class.

Hopefully ME3 will make the vanguard/sentinel classes deadlier

The way the Vanguard is designed in ME2 is meant to encourage you to play it the way BW intended, e.g. you get in close to the enemies and decimate them before they have time to react. You're dead right, they'd be way OP if they had warp (essentially the biotic replacement for guns) and throw.

[Iakus]

Ecael wrote...

iakus wrote...

In the first game, I think the only time Shepard was really in "right place, right time" was the beacon at Eden Prime.  The rest of the time he was simply very lucky that every single lead he had was dead on accurate.  I admit a few red herrings or false leads would add a bit of flavor to the games.

ME 2, it seems like TIM has a remarkable amount of foresight.  Almost like he knows exactly what Shepard needs, and gives him just enough information and resources to keep going.  Almost like he knew exactly what was going on, no?

That wasn't the only time he had good fortune working very much in his favor, though:

Highlight for spoilers:

In the interest of not having an entirely invisible conversation on this thread, i will simply say that a couple of those do in fact required a bit of good fortune.  Others were simply logical conclusions to what was happening anyway.  And others are simply "plot armor"; events that happen simply because he's an action hero in an action/rpg.  Requiring no more suspecion of disbelief than any other decently made action movie.

okay that last bit may not really be an answer, but you get the idea

[Iakus]

hex23 wrote...

iakus wrote...

We don't know what kind of manpower Cerberus has.  Given the turnover due to the number of them that get killed in experiments gone haywire, I'd say it's sizable.  If nothing else, they could keep two or three ships in the area to watch the relay and report the comings and going of the Collectors.  Maybe catch a single ship that's all by it's lonesome and jump it.

And you said yourself, nobody likes or trusts Cerberus.  If they mine the relay, hey, they're a terrorist organization, right?

Actually we do know what kind of manpower they have. EDI tells you. Cerberus is an extremely small organization, and definitely doesn't have the resoruces to randomly "jump" a Collector ship.

I'm going to have to go back and check that, but I belive that EDI was referring to currently active cells.  Cells are only active for particular tasks.  If that's the case, I'm sure TIM could activate a couple of military-based cells for an operation if necessary

[Ecael]

iakus wrote...

In the interest of not having an entirely invisible conversation on this thread, i will simply say that a couple of those do in fact required a bit of good fortune.  Others were simply logical conclusions to what was happening anyway.  And others are simply "plot armor"; events that happen simply because he's an action hero in an action/rpg.  Requiring no more suspecion of disbelief than any other decently made action movie.

okay that last bit may not really be an answer, but you get the idea

But invisible conversations are fun!


But yes, ME1 requires just as much suspension of disbelief as ME2 does - almost everything Shepard does is affected by serendipity and extreme luck. There's a ton of them to point out in ME2 since the character missions are separate from each other.

[spacehamsterZH]

tonnactus wrote...

spacehamsterZH wrote...

KitsuneRommel wrote...
At least Mass Effect Wiki says so.

This mission is automatically triggered when you complete at least five
new missions — either loyalty, recruitment or even anomaly missions.

Well, okay then. You have to do something, but it doesn't have to be the loyalty quests. Of course that also means it's not really possible to only do the main missions like in ME1.

Which means ME2 is actually less of a linear pew-pew game for dumb, dumb shooter fans. *cough*

???
Less freedom is good?

What? No. Oh wait, I get it - you're one of those ME2 haters who will disagree with everything someone who doesn't hate ME2 as much as you says, even if it means twisting what I say into the exact opposite. Nevermind then. 

[SithLordExarKun]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

spacehamsterZH wrote...

KitsuneRommel wrote...
At least Mass Effect Wiki says so.

This mission is automatically triggered when you complete at least five
new missions — either loyalty, recruitment or even anomaly missions.

Well, okay then. You have to do something, but it doesn't have to be the loyalty quests. Of course that also means it's not really possible to only do the main missions like in ME1.

Which means ME2 is actually less of a linear pew-pew game for dumb, dumb shooter fans. *cough*

???
Less freedom is good?

What? No. Oh wait, I get it - you're one of those ME2 haters who will disagree with everything someone who doesn't hate ME2 as much as you says, even if it means twisting what I say into the exact opposite. Nevermind then. 

Why bother arguing with a monkey with retarded typing skills?

[Tempest]

Lumikki wrote...

iakus wrote...

The only hole I see is there should have been more obvious security in the Council chambers, C-Sec agents, security cameras, maybe some remote guns.  Something more than Ashley noting that the stairs looked like they were designed to be very defensible in case of an attack.

Not really, why would it be needed. Remember council had not clue how important the place really where. It was just used as place to council to gather and talk. Like some congress building, when it's empty you only need to limit access from those who should not be there. That's why only sertain people had access to council tower.

I don't see any hole in that place security.

Now I remember a little more about the situation.   The protheans that returned to the citadel using the conduit tweeked the Keepers from sending the signal again.  The protheans also hid the information on  how they tweeked the keepers on Illos, aka where the conduit was at.  If  Saren can find the location of the Conduit, he can get the information needed to untweek the keepers to start the signal for the Reapers or just how to bypass the Keepers altogether to start the signal.  The Conduit leading directly to the citadel to use as a hidden passage by Saren was just, I don't know....luck, skill, good timing?

Sorry if this was off topic a little, but I needed to reply.

[KitsuneRommel]

Tempest wrote...

Now I remember a little more about the situation.   The protheans that returned to the citadel using the conduit tweeked the Keepers from sending the signal again.  The protheans also hid the information on  how they tweeked the keepers on Illos, aka where the conduit was at.  If  Saren can find the location of the Conduit, he can get the information needed to untweek the keepers to start the signal for the Reapers or just how to bypass the Keepers altogether to start the signal.  The Conduit leading directly to the citadel to use as a hidden passage by Saren was just, I don't know....luck, skill, good timing?

I don't know why Vigil gave that information to Saren if it could sense that he was indoctrinated by the Reapers.

[Lumikki]

Tempest wrote...

Now I remember a little more about the situation.   The protheans that returned to the citadel using the conduit tweeked the Keepers from sending the signal again.  The protheans also hid the information on  how they tweeked the keepers on Illos, aka where the conduit was at.  If  Saren can find the location of the Conduit, he can get the information needed to untweek the keepers to start the signal for the Reapers or just how to bypass the Keepers altogether to start the signal.  The Conduit leading directly to the citadel to use as a hidden passage by Saren was just, I don't know....luck, skill, good timing?

Sorry if this was off topic a little, but I needed to reply.

Yes, that was also my assumption what would make sense. That the conduit wasn't the point of Saren search, but the information on the place where conduit was. How ever, how did Saren know that solution was there? My point in general is that people here complain alot of ME2 plot holes, this was one big one in ME1. Now we can invent the reason as we just did, but so we can we do in many of ME2's plot holes. This was only major thing in ME1 story what short of cause me think after we found conduit that why the hell Saren needed it. That's what plot holes are, something what we need to explain outside story what was told, so that it makes some sense.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Well to be honest I think the plot of both games just drive the story forward. I wouldn't honestly hold them up as benchmarks, I like the universe a whole lot, but to me the Plot would fail if it wasn't for the presentation, and the presentation in both games is excellent. Both games though are ultimately the same plot wise in a sense, in the first you are hunting down and tracking a rogue spectre, in the second you are hunting down and tracking the Collectors. While there is some difference in execution. ME 1 is a bit disjointed until the end which it really picks up (Mind you 95% of the ending is SPLOSHUN'S), while in ME 2 it is more disconnected.



I will say that both games open up with big plot holes for me (Shepard's death in 2, Shepard really really believed that Saren is behind the attack even though they only have testimony from a criminal). But that really doesn't bother me because the universe developed is interesting. And that is another difference, the universe was tied to the hub worlds and some of the plot missions in ME 1 while in ME 2 it was tied to the sidequests.

[Jebel Krong]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Tempest wrote...

Now I remember a little more about the situation.   The protheans that returned to the citadel using the conduit tweeked the Keepers from sending the signal again.  The protheans also hid the information on  how they tweeked the keepers on Illos, aka where the conduit was at.  If  Saren can find the location of the Conduit, he can get the information needed to untweek the keepers to start the signal for the Reapers or just how to bypass the Keepers altogether to start the signal.  The Conduit leading directly to the citadel to use as a hidden passage by Saren was just, I don't know....luck, skill, good timing?

I don't know why Vigil gave that information to Saren if it could sense that he was indoctrinated by the Reapers.

vigil didn't communicate with saren, he did however, watch him as he watched you. knowing he was tainted but powerless to stop him, saren knew where he was going already (let's face it a conduit would be easy to spot/trace based on power draw alone).

[KitsuneRommel]

Jebel Krong wrote...

vigil didn't communicate with saren, he did however, watch him as he watched you. knowing he was tainted but powerless to stop him, saren knew where he was going already (let's face it a conduit would be easy to spot/trace based on power draw alone).

Spoiler

Before you leave Vigil gives you a file that temporarily will give full
access to the Citadel and its resources. However you must find the
Master Control Terminal to get that access, however again Vigil says to
follow Saren as he knows where to go.

So what did Saren exactly get from there?

Modifié par KitsuneRommel, 26 mai 2010 - 10:50 .

[Jebel Krong]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Spoiler

Before you leave Vigil gives you a file that temporarily will give full
access to the Citadel and its resources. However you must find the
Master Control Terminal to get that access, however again Vigil says to
follow Saren as he knows where to go.

So what did Saren exactly get from there?

saren had to use the conduit to get back on the citadel and shut it down from the inisde - using the prothean's own "back-door" on themselves. that's it. one assumes the protheans knew where the master control terminal was, to use it against the reapers the first time, but vigil doesn't or he'd have given you the information straight away (i.e. it's in the council chambers), but he knew saren would know from sovereign.

[Vena_86]

Guys...this topic has gone from a game design discussion to a spoiler heavy story discussion.