10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecael]

Vena_86 wrote...

Guys...this topic has gone from a game design discussion to a spoiler heavy story discussion.

The spoilers I post need to be highlighted in order to see them, and they can't be quoted unless someone types them out manually.

[Iakus]

So...about ME 2, why couldn't we have a central villain again like Saren or the geth?

[Ecael]

iakus wrote...

So...about ME 2, why couldn't we have a central villain again like Saren or the geth?

Saren -> indoctrinated by Reapers -> uses geth to help him
Collector General -> indoctrinated by Reapers -> uses Collectors to help him

Of course, pointing that out, people will probably start complaining about how the main plot of ME2 is unoriginal because it copies off the last game.

And then when someone points out any differences again, they go back to saying how there wasn't a plot in ME2.

And then when someone points out any similarities again, they go back to saying how the plot was unoriginal because of ME1.

And then when someone points out any differences again, they go back to saying how there wasn't a plot in ME2.

And then when someone points out any similarities again, they go back to saying how the plot was unoriginal because of ME1.

And then when someone points out any differences again, they go back to saying how there wasn't a plot in ME2.

And then when someone points out any similarities again, they go back to saying how the plot was unoriginal because of ME1.

And then when someone points out any differences again, they go back to saying how there wasn't a plot in ME2.

And then when someone points out any similarities again, they go back to saying how the plot was unoriginal because of ME1.

And then when someone points out any differences again, they go back to saying how there wasn't a plot in ME2.

And then when someone points out any similarities again, they go back to saying how the plot was unoriginal because of ME1.

It never ends.

Modifié par Ecael, 26 mai 2010 - 01:47 .

[Lumikki]

iakus wrote...

So...about ME 2, why couldn't we have a central villain again like Saren or the geth?

Spoiler:

Actually we did have main villain and it's helpers, but we did not see them all in story. Remember who sayed, you failed, i'm gonna release the control. That was our main villain, the one was relased, was the helpers. We can only ques who was behind those words.

Modifié par Lumikki, 26 mai 2010 - 04:44 .

[spacehamsterZH]

Honestly, I like both games equally for different reason, but I don't think there's any denying that ME1's main plot had the more compelling villains (characters like Morinth are an entirely different story.) I can't go into specifics here in the non-spoiler area, but ultimately Harbinger is just kind of a disembodied voice spouting oneliners, and that's about it.



The problem is that once you get past the revelation of who the Reapers are and Sovereign's "fumbling in ignorance" monologue that's clearly at Darth Vader levels of awesomeness, the Reapers just aren't terribly interesting. ME1 got around that by inserting Saren as a middle man, but you can't just repeat that over and over, and all you're left with once you take Saren out of the equation is giant machine gods who talk a lot about how insignificant organic life is and how they'll wipe it all out. It's not a problem of ME2, it's a problem of the Mass Effect mythology in general. I wonder if and how ME3 will solve this. As retarded as the ending of ME2 was, at least it hinted at the fact that there's more to the Reapers than we know, so I guess we'll see.

[tonnactus]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Why bother arguing with a monkey with retarded typing skills?

The biggest idiots on forums are those who dont have anything other to do then to complain about other people typing skills.And you are just one of those.

[Iakus]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Honestly, I like both games equally for different reason, but I don't think there's any denying that ME1's main plot had the more compelling villains (characters like Morinth are an entirely different story.) I can't go into specifics here in the non-spoiler area, but ultimately Harbinger is just kind of a disembodied voice spouting oneliners, and that's about it.

The problem is that once you get past the revelation of who the Reapers are and Sovereign's "fumbling in ignorance" monologue that's clearly at Darth Vader levels of awesomeness, the Reapers just aren't terribly interesting. ME1 got around that by inserting Saren as a middle man, but you can't just repeat that over and over, and all you're left with once you take Saren out of the equation is giant machine gods who talk a lot about how insignificant organic life is and how they'll wipe it all out. It's not a problem of ME2, it's a problem of the Mass Effect mythology in general. I wonder if and how ME3 will solve this. As retarded as the ending of ME2 was, at least it hinted at the fact that there's more to the Reapers than we know, so I guess we'll see.

I agree about Harbringer, and yes some of the characters and loyalty missions potentially had enough material to them to be made into games in their own right.

As to the "middle man":  I don't see why you couldn't have more middle men with any number of reasons why they'd help the Reapers.  The geth had their reasons.  Saren had his reasons.  But others may have different reasons.  The balance between indocttrination and free will by itself can make for intriguing plot points  Wouldn't it have been cool if there was a group out there helping the Reapers without even realizing it?.  Remember that too much indoctination turns the brain to oatmeal, so some degree of free will is needed with the higher-up minions.

This is why I see the Collectors as a wasted opportunity.   If we could have seen more of them, given more personality, and more "screen time" more...uniqueness I guess is the term, they would have made a great face for the Reapers.  A new species, not the geth, yet serving the Reapers.  Why?  To what purpose?  Instead we get...what we got.  Too little screen time and a pretty simplistic reason.  Honestly, the suicide mission may have been better off as a raid on a pirate stronghold after learning that the Blue Suns, Eclipse, and Blood Pack have all been on the Reaper's payroll the whole time.

I figured there was more to the Reapers than we knew with the "fumbling in ignorance" line.  I mean, it would be pretty stupid to have the Big Bad of the series be a mindless bunch of kill-bots, right?  I for one am very curious as to why they think organic life is useless.  Why do they feel the need to wipe it out every few dozen millenia, What they do in them meantime, besides hanging out in dark space?  Who built them, or were they built at all?   How can they be stopped, wiout an entire fleet of ships, per Reaper at elast?  There's a story to tell there.  I'd hoped we'd get at least the first chapter in ME 2.  Instead we got...that...

[Ecael]

iakus wrote...

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Honestly, I like both games equally for different reason, but I don't think there's any denying that ME1's main plot had the more compelling villains (characters like Morinth are an entirely different story.) I can't go into specifics here in the non-spoiler area, but ultimately Harbinger is just kind of a disembodied voice spouting oneliners, and that's about it.

The problem is that once you get past the revelation of who the Reapers are and Sovereign's "fumbling in ignorance" monologue that's clearly at Darth Vader levels of awesomeness, the Reapers just aren't terribly interesting. ME1 got around that by inserting Saren as a middle man, but you can't just repeat that over and over, and all you're left with once you take Saren out of the equation is giant machine gods who talk a lot about how insignificant organic life is and how they'll wipe it all out. It's not a problem of ME2, it's a problem of the Mass Effect mythology in general. I wonder if and how ME3 will solve this. As retarded as the ending of ME2 was, at least it hinted at the fact that there's more to the Reapers than we know, so I guess we'll see.

I agree about Harbringer, and yes some of the characters and loyalty missions potentially had enough material to them to be made into games in their own right.

As to the "middle man":  I don't see why you couldn't have more middle men with any number of reasons why they'd help the Reapers.  The geth had their reasons.  Saren had his reasons.  But others may have different reasons.  The balance between indocttrination and free will by itself can make for intriguing plot points  Wouldn't it have been cool if there was a group out there helping the Reapers without even realizing it?.  Remember that too much indoctination turns the brain to oatmeal, so some degree of free will is needed with the higher-up minions.

This is why I see the Collectors as a wasted opportunity.   If we could have seen more of them, given more personality, and more "screen time" more...uniqueness I guess is the term, they would have made a great face for the Reapers.  A new species, not the geth, yet serving the Reapers.  Why?  To what purpose?  Instead we get...what we got.  Too little screen time and a pretty simplistic reason.  Honestly, the suicide mission may have been better off as a raid on a pirate stronghold after learning that the Blue Suns, Eclipse, and Blood Pack have all been on the Reaper's payroll the whole time.

I figured there was more to the Reapers than we knew with the "fumbling in ignorance" line.  I mean, it would be pretty stupid to have the Big Bad of the series be a mindless bunch of kill-bots, right?  I for one am very curious as to why they think organic life is useless.  Why do they feel the need to wipe it out every few dozen millenia, What they do in them meantime, besides hanging out in dark space?  Who built them, or were they built at all?   How can they be stopped, wiout an entire fleet of ships, per Reaper at elast?  There's a story to tell there.  I'd hoped we'd get at least the first chapter in ME 2.  Instead we got...that...

Talking Collector squadmate for ME3?

[tonnactus]

uberdowzen wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

The tell me why this bar then even existed.To give a hint to the player.

Maybe it was so you could see the combinations that different squads produced. Riddle me this, if it's such an important gameplay hint, why'd they remove it in ME2?

Because it doesnt make sense now.Mordin is a tech,but doesnt have overload,ai-hacking (against shields and synthetic health)  or a combat drone.

[tonnactus]

uberdowzen wrote...


Time is of the essence. Why waste time installing it on different ships etc.

Because its an unnessary risks to do that?With the result,that shepardt and his team could be killed,and humanity would be doomed?

[Iakus]

Ecael wrote...

Talking Collector squadmate for ME3?

Please don't give them ideas!

Though I wouldn't have minded more three dimensional Collector villains in ME 2

[tonnactus]

uberdowzen wrote...

The way the Vanguard is designed in ME2 is meant to encourage you to play it the way BW intended, e.g. you get in close to the enemies and decimate them before they have time to react. You're dead right, they'd be way OP if they had warp (essentially the biotic replacement for guns) and throw.

Not with global cooldown.Then the player decide if he charge again or use warp/throw.

[uberdowzen]

tonnactus wrote...

Because it doesnt make sense now.Mordin is a tech,but doesnt have overload,ai-hacking (against shields and synthetic health)  or a combat drone.

Still makes sense to keep it if balance is so important. ME2 has a load screen hint that suggests taking a balanced squad so you can deal with anything.

[uberdowzen]

tonnactus wrote...

Because its an unnessary risks to do that?With the result,that shepardt and his team could be killed,and humanity would be doomed?

Main issue, it's a short step from that to the plot of ME3 being Shepherd writing a risk assessment report. Fun.

[uberdowzen]

tonnactus wrote...

Not with global cooldown.Then the player decide if he charge again or use warp/throw.

No, I think you'd still be OP. Vanguard's are in essence a combat (shotgun specialist) class and the biotic powers are just there to assist them. Pull allows you to immobilize targets, which you then shotgun. Shockwave is the same. Biotic Charge allows you to get in close and take out the enemies before they have time to react. Cryo ammo allows you to freeze targets making them even weaker when you get in close. Incendiary ammo works well with the shotgun. The only power I think would be useful to them (with out OPing them) would be barrier, which I gave myself anyway. Useful for when you screw up a charge.

[tonnactus]

uberdowzen wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Because it doesnt make sense now.Mordin is a tech,but doesnt have overload,ai-hacking (against shields and synthetic health)  or a combat drone.

Still makes sense to keep it if balance is so important. ME2 has a load screen hint that suggests taking a balanced squad so you can deal with anything.

The advice of the load screen doesnt make any sense now. Mordin is a tech, but very different from Tali and Legion.He has no tools against geth like overload,hacking etc.Even Zaeed is more usefull.

[tonnactus]

uberdowzen wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Not with global cooldown.Then the player decide if he charge again or use warp/throw.

No, I think you'd still be OP. Vanguard's are in essence a combat (shotgun specialist) class and the biotic powers are just there to assist them. Pull allows you to immobilize targets, which you then shotgun. Shockwave is the same. Biotic Charge allows you to get in close and take out the enemies before they have time to react. Cryo ammo allows you to freeze targets making them even weaker when you get in close. Incendiary ammo works well with the shotgun. The only power I think would be useful to them (with out OPing them) would be barrier, which I gave myself anyway. Useful for when you screw up a charge.

Bioware still allows the player to take reave,what did what warp do except detonations.But it has an area version and heals the biotic user.But most enemies in this game have shields,so i never feel overpowered when i use it.

[1Parmenides]

Overall, I'm quite happy with the changes in ME2.

[SithLordExarKun]

tonnactus wrote...

The biggest idiots on forums are those who dont have anything other to do then to complain about other people typing skills.And you are just one of those.

No, the largest morons of this generation are people like you that don't know how to properly critisize a game but attack and disagree with anybody that doesn't hate ME2 as much as you do

. Funny how i supposedly didn't do anything other than "complaining" when i constantly tear your pathetic half assed arguments apart. 

But no really, you DO have the typing skills of a retarded monkey hence why almost nobody takes you seriously.

[uberdowzen]

1Parmenides wrote...

Overall, I'm quite happy with the changes in ME2.

Exactly.

[uberdowzen]

tonnactus wrote...

The advice of the load screen doesnt make any sense now. Mordin is a tech, but very different from Tali and Legion.He has no tools against geth like overload,hacking etc.Even Zaeed is more usefull.

This is getting off topic. This still doesn't deal with the issue that apparently parts of the game are impossible at insanity if you don't have a balanced squad.

[uberdowzen]

tonnactus wrote...

Bioware still allows the player to take reave,what did what warp do except detonations.But it has an area version and heals the biotic user.But most enemies in this game have shields,so i never feel overpowered when i use it.

But that's a bonus power, it doesn't count.

[foxstranger]

To exxxed

Sometimes in life you could not control your deeds and deeply regret where they could lead, sometimes it’s impossible to correct it, no matter how deeply you desire it, result of no harming message with desire a little improve game, could lead to huge amount of anger, hatred between peoples, the most painful part of it - that people could be so haughtiness, that they cannot admit their mistakes(it is not a strength, tis weekness), we exist not for supremacy and domination of others, but for support and helping each other in time of need, when people will learn to forget each other? Why they choose acting using their higher rank in hierarchy among the others in most cruel methods, why is that? When you share your problems with others, support them, you feel that wonderful amount of joy, you feel peace and serenity in your Soul, it’s like 12 years old child was born in you(no matter how old are you) and bringing enjoyment with inspiration around. My time is soon be over, I’m going back to home again, I just hope it will not be for nothing.

[Lopake]

All of you can go QQ in hell

[Lopake]

except foxstranger