10273 réponses à ce sujet

[foxstranger]

No, not that way, why that anger again, i wished i could remove that message, but i can't, i don't have power to turn time back neither save her, i beg you please forgive her and accept her back at least it could partially soft my suffering!

[Ecael]

foxstranger wrote...

To exxxed
Sometimes in life you could not control your deeds and deeply regret where they could lead, sometimes it’s impossible to correct it, no matter how deeply you desire it, result of no harming message with desire a little improve game, could lead to huge amount of anger, hatred between peoples, the most painful part of it - that people could be so haughtiness, that they cannot admit their mistakes(it is not a strength, tis weekness), we exist not for supremacy and domination of others, but for support and helping each other in time of need,

The desire to improve the game with criticism in the form of "BioWare doesn't know what they're doing" or "Make it just like ME1 again" doesn't help improve the game at all. If people can at least praise the good things about the game instead of saying that everything about it is bad, then BioWare might listen by keeping the good things and changing the ones that weren't mentioned. Otherwise, there's no reason for them to even look at this thread (and it seems that they haven't anyway).

The amount of negativity and pessimism toward Mass Effect 3 is also disturbing, and it also fosters a lot of arguments. I'm almost always going to take the side of BioWare and be optimistic about what they will produce. While others may have a different "opinion", these are the three options that can occur from this point on:

1. ME3 is released, is unanimously a great game to everyone, and I win this never-ending argument for being optimistic (and being correct).

2. ME3 is released, is "meh", the pessimists win, but the game is still bad with no ME4 in the works, so they actually lose.

3. ME3 is never released or is terrible - we all lose.

Understand that pessimism will always either lead to being wrong, or being extremely disappointed.

If people would just realize that, the Internet (and the world, actually) would be a better place.

Modifié par Ecael, 27 mai 2010 - 02:26 .

[foxstranger]

The amount of negativity and pessimism toward Mass Effect 3 is also disturbing, and it also fosters a lot of arguments. I'm almost always going to take the side of BioWare and be optimistic about what they will produce. While others may have a different "opinion", these are the three options that can occur from this point on:

1. ME3 is released, is unanimously a great game to everyone, and I win this never-ending argument for being optimistic (and being correct).

2. ME3 is released, is "meh", the pessimists win, but the game is still bad with no ME4 in the works, so they actually lose.

3. ME3 is never released or is terrible - we all lose.

Understand that pessimism will always either lead to being wrong, or being extremely disappointed.

If people would just realize that, the Internet (and the world, actually) would be a better place.[/quote]

I was fool and didn't realize that - Understand that pessimism will always either lead to being wrong, or being extremely disappointed. If people would just realize that, the Internet (and the world, actually) would be a better place.

I would like

4. She is come back to work and everyone forgive each other!

[Iakus]

Ecael wrote...

The amount of negativity and pessimism toward Mass Effect 3 is also disturbing, and it also fosters a lot of arguments. I'm almost always going to take the side of BioWare and be optimistic about what they will produce. While others may have a different "opinion", these are the three options that can occur from this point on:

1. ME3 is released, is unanimously a great game to everyone, and I win this never-ending argument for being optimistic (and being correct).

2. ME3 is released, is "meh", the pessimists win, but the game is still bad with no ME4 in the works, so they actually lose.

3. ME3 is never released or is terrible - we all lose.

Understand that pessimism will always either lead to being wrong, or being extremely disappointed.

If people would just realize that, the Internet (and the world, actually) would be a better place.

I think part of the problem is there is so much unquestioning fanatiacism over the game here that some of us that are less than satisfied are kinda forced to push at what we see as glaring flaws.  I for one genuinely hope ME 3 is a huge, fantastic hit.  I'd be overjoyed.  Really. But frankly ME 2 has shaken my confidence.

And remember: "A pessimist is what an optomist calls a realist"

Still, the point is well taken.  There ARE good things about ME2,  So I'm going to play some good idea/bad idea:

Note, the following are my opinions.  Get your own

Good idea:  Loyalty missons.  Excellent way to get to know your squadmates and learn about the various worlds.
Bad idea:  Making recruitment/loyalty missions the entire thrust of the game

Good idea:  Setting ME 2 in a different part of the galaxy and introducing a new threat.  Keeps the series fresh.
Bad idea:  Pretty much ignoring said new threat until the very end of the game

Good idea: Introducing new squadmates.  Travel the galaxy and meet new people.
Bad idea:  Really too much of a good thing.

Good idea:  Old choices carrying over
Bad Idea" You have new messages at your personal terminal"

Good idea:  Less inventory
Bad Idea:  No inventory

Good idea:  Unique looks for squadmates
Bad idea:  Miranda's perma-wedgie, Jacob's superhero outfit, Garrus' broken armor, Jack's no armor (or shirt), etc

Good idea: "Working for the bad guys"  Okay in concept
Bad idea: Turning the Council and most of your old friends into idiots so TIM is your only friend in the entire Galaxy
Bad idea2: Retconning Cerberus to be considerably warmer and fuzzier.

Good idea:  Updated graphic
Bad idea:  None.  Graphics are good

Good idea: the music
Bad idea:  None, music is excellent, and I normally turn music off on games.

[uberdowzen]

iakus wrote...

I think part of the problem is there is so much unquestioning fanatiacism over the game here that some of us that are less than satisfied are kinda forced to push at what we see as glaring flaws.  I for one genuinely hope ME 3 is a huge, fantastic hit.  I'd be overjoyed.  Really. But frankly ME 2 has shaken my confidence.

And remember: "A pessimist is what an optomist calls a realist"

Still, the point is well taken.  There ARE good things about ME2,  So I'm going to play some good idea/bad idea:

Note, the following are my opinions.  Get your own

Good idea:  Loyalty missons.  Excellent way to get to know your squadmates and learn about the various worlds.
Bad idea:  Making recruitment/loyalty missions the entire thrust of the game

Good idea:  Setting ME 2 in a different part of the galaxy and introducing a new threat.  Keeps the series fresh.
Bad idea:  Pretty much ignoring said new threat until the very end of the game

Good idea: Introducing new squadmates.  Travel the galaxy and meet new people.
Bad idea:  Really too much of a good thing.

Good idea:  Old choices carrying over
Bad Idea" You have new messages at your personal terminal"

Good idea:  Less inventory
Bad Idea:  No inventory

Good idea:  Unique looks for squadmates
Bad idea:  Miranda's perma-wedgie, Jacob's superhero outfit, Garrus' broken armor, Jack's no armor (or shirt), etc

Good idea: "Working for the bad guys"  Okay in concept
Bad idea: Turning the Council and most of your old friends into idiots so TIM is your only friend in the entire Galaxy
Bad idea2: Retconning Cerberus to be considerably warmer and fuzzier.

Good idea:  Updated graphic
Bad idea:  None.  Graphics are good

Good idea: the music
Bad idea:  None, music is excellent, and I normally turn music off on games.

There are always going to be fanatics who aren't willing to admit that the game isn't perfect, in the same way that there are people who aren't willing to admit it's a good game, possibly just not the game they wanted. Arguing with either of these groups doesn't really do anything except for getting threads closed. I do disagree with some of your points above (not going to point them out though to avoid an argument) but I will admit that the game does have problems. For example, I've reached the point in my 3rd playthrough of ME2 where I'd rather kill myself than scan another planet.

I guess my point is that the ME2 fanatics need to admit that the game has problems and the ME2 haters need to admit that it's actually a really good game.

[SithLordExarKun]

The game DOES have problems, many problems but that doesn't make it a horrible game as many manianical evangelical members with a vendetta proclaim it to be.

[foxstranger]

The only one idiot here is me, everyone are my friends and i would like to keep it that way.

I know sometimes it's hard to forgive especially for such highest person, but this decision are not idiotic, it's only show how strong you really are if you could arrange such deed after so much pain suffered by those who you going to forgive. Many of Souls found peace after that including your own.

[MassEffect762]

Either way the first 40-60 minutes into ME3 will tell how much Bioware/EA devoted to ME3.



ME2 is a good game no doubt, it's just not bioware at their full potential imo.

[Iakus]

uberdowzen wrote...

There are always going to be fanatics who aren't willing to admit that the game isn't perfect, in the same way that there are people who aren't willing to admit it's a good game, possibly just not the game they wanted. Arguing with either of these groups doesn't really do anything except for getting threads closed. I do disagree with some of your points above (not going to point them out though to avoid an argument) but I will admit that the game does have problems. For example, I've reached the point in my 3rd playthrough of ME2 where I'd rather kill myself than scan another planet.

I guess my point is that the ME2 fanatics need to admit that the game has problems and the ME2 haters need to admit that it's actually a really good game.

I'm afraid I can't call ME2 a "really good game"  Best I can do is "good start to a game"  And prior to this  I was as big a Bioware fanboy as you're ever likely to meet (and I can see from your sig we own many of the same games)

i'm in my third playthrough as well and i have no problem with planet scanning (I've got over 100k in irridium banked, at least 50k each of the rest , and all improvements I can afford made)  What's tearing my hair out is doing yet another recruitment/handholding misson.  Gah!  Collectors!  Lemme at em!  This is gonna be my last playtrough until ME 3 has a release date.

[uberdowzen]

iakus wrote...

I'm afraid I can't call ME2 a "really good game"  Best I can do is "good start to a game"  And prior to this  I was as big a Bioware fanboy as you're ever likely to meet (and I can see from your sig we own many of the same games)

i'm in my third playthrough as well and i have no problem with planet scanning (I've got over 100k in irridium banked, at least 50k each of the rest , and all improvements I can afford made)  What's tearing my hair out is doing yet another recruitment/handholding misson.  Gah!  Collectors!  Lemme at em!  This is gonna be my last playtrough until ME 3 has a release date.

ARHG!! I just can't stand the planet scanning. It's main problem is it doesn't take any skill, it's just a time sink.

[Ecael]

uberdowzen wrote...

There are always going to be fanatics who aren't willing to admit that the game isn't perfect, in the same way that there are people who aren't willing to admit it's a good game, possibly just not the game they wanted.

I guess my point is that the ME2 fanatics need to admit that the game has problems and the ME2 haters need to admit that it's actually a really good game.

My intention is to make Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 seem as similar as possible - because they are.

This forum is only a small representation of people who actually bought the game. EA, BioWare, almost all critics and even other game developers praise Mass Effect 2 and/or its current sales figures.

I'd say their opinion is slightly more valid than the ones who are dissatisfied here...

[uberdowzen]

Ecael wrote...

My intention is to make Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 seem as similar as possible - because they are.

This forum is only a small representation of people who actually bought the game. EA, BioWare, almost all critics and even other game developers praise Mass Effect 2 and/or its current sales figures.

I'd say their opinion is slightly more valid than the ones who are dissatisfied here...

Like I said, best thing that happened to this thread...

[Rheinguard]

Good Idea: Give us a Toolset.



On another note, I was disappointed that I never got the chance to kill "Hedonistic blue girl that runs Omega". I really felt and enjoyed the lawless ambiance on Omega, but was ultimately flabbergasted when Shepard was never given the chance to betray her and take over.

[Gemini1179]

Rheinguard wrote...

Good Idea: Give us a Toolset.

On another note, I was disappointed that I never got the chance to kill "Hedonistic blue girl that runs Omega". I really felt and enjoyed the lawless ambiance on Omega, but was ultimately flabbergasted when Shepard was never given the chance to betray her and take over.

While not my ambition, Omega felt compeltely unfinished when I played through the first time. I thought I'd be doing more for Aria to "get on her good side" and find out more about her history, but it is left quite abrupt and feels like poor game and story design. Same thing with Liara- I mean the journal even says to "check back with Liara later to see if she needs any more help". At least with Liara, we have a good indication that there is DLC coming.... of course I only know that because I come to the forums.

[Rheinguard]

I agree with what you have said about Liara. I think the Devs are trying to find a way to implement her in the game as a squadmate again. Because from the audio here, the stupidest excuse was made for her not being a squadmember.  "There is too much data for me to go with you"  What BS excuse is that for not coming with Shepard to save the galaxy?  I think it would be out already if it wasn't for obvious lack of immersion.  Liara was one of my favorite sqaudmembers in ME 1.  Im dissapointed in the direction the Novels took her though.  I liked her nice and sweet.  Now shes probably going to "flay me alive with her mind" in ME 3 once she finds out I banged Tali. 

Modifié par Rheinguard, 27 mai 2010 - 05:23 .

[KitsuneRommel]

iakus wrote...

Good idea: "Working for the bad guys"  Okay in concept
Bad idea: Turning the Council and most of your old friends into idiots so TIM is your only friend in the entire Galaxy
Bad idea2: Retconning Cerberus to be considerably warmer and fuzzier.

Pretty much agreed with all of them, but seriously when wasn't the Council acting like idiots? Playing a xenophobic renegade in ME1 is so easy since most of what you say is true.

[uberdowzen]

I'm actually just realising that your choices in ME2 have more impact than I thought. For example, in the quarians loyalty mission, choices you've made earlier allow you to perform the mission in different ways.

Modifié par uberdowzen, 27 mai 2010 - 09:29 .

[Pocketgb]

uberdowzen wrote...

I guess my point is that the ME2 fanatics need to admit that the game has problems and the ME2 haters need to admit that it's actually a really good game.

Damn, I'm away from these forums for like ever and this is one of the first things I read? Which just also happens to be the most true statement I've seen on the boards? Holy BALLS I need to start coming back here more often.

[Kaylord]

[quote]iakus wrote...

...
Note, the following are my opinions.  Get your own

Good idea:  Loyalty missons.  Excellent way to get to know your squadmates and learn about the various worlds.
Bad idea:  Making recruitment/loyalty missions the entire thrust of the game

Good idea:  Setting ME 2 in a different part of the galaxy and introducing a new threat.  Keeps the series fresh.
Bad idea:  Pretty much ignoring said new threat until the very end of the game

Good idea: Introducing new squadmates.  Travel the galaxy and meet new people.
Bad idea:  Really too much of a good thing.

Good idea:  Old choices carrying over
Bad Idea" You have new messages at your personal terminal"

Good idea:  Less inventory
Bad Idea:  No inventory

Good idea:  Unique looks for squadmates
Bad idea:  Miranda's perma-wedgie, Jacob's superhero outfit, Garrus' broken armor, Jack's no armor (or shirt), etc

Good idea: "Working for the bad guys"  Okay in concept
Bad idea: Turning the Council and most of your old friends into idiots so TIM is your only friend in the entire Galaxy
Bad idea2: Retconning Cerberus to be considerably warmer and fuzzier.

Good idea:  Updated graphic
Bad idea:  None.  Graphics are good

Good idea: the music
Bad idea:  None, music is excellent, and I normally turn music off on games.[/quote]

[/quote]

Very nice summary, could be expanded a bit, of course. But I am positively surprised how overall maturely  and serious this topic has been discussed past the last 100+ pages. Many things have already been discussed, but anyway... here my add-ins:

Good idea: New romance options.
Bad idea1: Handly the old ones very poorly.
Bad idea2: Kissing through helmets, bed scenes in uniforms.

Good idea: New loot system.
Bad idea: Heat sink searching remains by fact the same loot system, but even more boring.

Good idea: Free exploration
Bad idea: Mining reticule, scanning.

Good idea: Remove stupid Mako behaviour and boring exploration maps
Bad idea: Remove vehicular exploration/combat altogether
(Good idea: Reintroduce vehicular exploration/combat with DCL)
(Bad idea: Transform it into jump&run game)

Good idea: Improve minigames
Bad idea: Remove choice to bypass minigames with omnigel

Good idea: Streamline skill system
Bad idea1: Oversimplify.
Bad idea2: couple persuasion ability with quantity of good/evil decisionmaking

...and so on....

[Orchomene]

Just finished ME2 for the first and probably last time three days ago.
I can understand that people can like this game. I did not, for personal reasons I can briefly explain but that remain personal reasons.
Also, since it seems that some people here are very sensible to spelling, be kind to excuse my level in english, it's a foreigner language for me.

1. Replayability.
This is like ME1. There is no real replayability (besides for gameplay reasons like testing another class). First game allowsd you to see the whole game with very few exceptions. Even the choices between paragon and renegades don't matter a lot.

2. Combat gameplay.
I don't like at all the way combat is handled in ME2 even more than ME1 which I didn't like much more. The controls are designed for console players, pause doesn't allow to stack actions. In ME2, they also add some "difficulties" in battle with just adding more hit points to enemies and removing more or less all your protections. It's easy to make tough combat, just make so one shot taken kill you when you need to shot thousand times to kill an enemy. Strategic and tactical aspect are really lacking with few exceptions (like Haestrom and... perhaps another one ?)

3. Character customization.
A class offer no real development choice, you have to take the skills given to you, that is very few. Also, each level of a skill just adds numbers (damage, radius ...). Not many choices in weapons, no choice at all in armors but just minor effects. The same goes for the NPCs. This is just a step backward from ME1 that was already bad in this since with dozens of points, you just have only too few skills with levels that do really change nothing but small numbers. A big question is why, after having dumped the d20 system, keeping a class system ? I mean, why a soldier can't at all learn technologic engeneering ? Why a biotic can't learn to use a sniper weapon ? I know that skill "bonuses" have been added to allow a very small customization, but why as a bonus and why only one skill ?

4. Leveled enemies.
Is that normal that among the first enemies you fight mercenaries, even leaders of mercenaries and then at the end of the game, just before going through the Omega 4, you are still fighting against the same mercenary groups ? That just gives the impression of stagnation of Shepard : your PC managed to kill enemies he already managed to kill in the begining of the game. Talk about sense of evolution and accomplishement. Simple, the game offers more or less two kind of enemies : mercenaries and collectors. At least, in DAO, they refused a complete leveling of enemies saying that it's non sense to have rats level 20 and dragons level 5.

5. Poor story.
This story would have been in a SF book or movie, I wouldn't have read the end of the book or seen the end of the movie since there is almost no originality and a very poor storytelling. At least, in ME1, you have to discover the cosmogony. In ME2, you already know the majority of it, that's why the story seems so empty. Well, if you add that the nature of the "end boss" and the family issues of your followers, the story(ies) feel(s) like a strange oedipian transfer from a psychanalytic point of view. From all the BW games I've played, that is more than 80%, I think that's it's the one with the worst storytelling skill and originality. The ME1 story being middle. The level is the one of the OC in NWN, that is saying a lot.

6. And next ?
Well, at this point, natural evolution is to remove completely levels (after all, enemies levels at the same speed, a level adds almost nothing and there is no real skill customization). Just give three or four powers to each class and a free power as a bonus.
Story can also be sent out since there is just the necessity to add one guy, called Tim or Tom, as you wish, that just sends you to your next target without leting you know the reasons behind. You can even remove completely the Normandy and the breaks between missions since when someone called Tam (or Tum) says "go there" you have no choice but to do it.
Followers will keep appearing, still. They just won't say things by themselves, won't react to what you are doing or saying, they will just repeat you time after time to do their specific quest. Because if you don't allow them to clean a bit their past, they will be killed and perhaps, you too.

Now, of course, I won't buy ME3 whatever the "Huge-Mega-Hyper" critic level of "best game of the millenium".
I will now be more careful before buying a BW game. Before the ME serie, I never had any hesitation knowing that BW was a quality label. That's not anymore true for me. I will first check if it's a RPG which is played like a RPG or a RPG which is played like a TPS.

[tonnactus]

iakus wrote...

Good idea:  Loyalty missons.  Excellent way to get to know your squadmates and learn about the various worlds.
Bad idea:  Making recruitment/loyalty missions the entire thrust of the game

It would be better if you get your party by doing them some favor,like the loyality missions.

Like:"You want me to be a part of your team, then do this for me."


But instead:Slain mercs until you reach the person you want in your team.

Loaylity mission:Slain mercs mercs again.Two exeptions without combat.

Awful. And some connetion to the main story,and a explanation why shepardt need a teammember,and the game would be dozen of times better then now.

Modifié par tonnactus, 27 mai 2010 - 06:46 .

[WilliamShatner]

Here's a review that puts forth many of the flaws in an abrasive, comedic way. www.youtube.com/watch

Warning includes very strong language.

[CroGamer002]

God this forum is getting really boring.

[Gundar3]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Here's a review that puts forth many of the flaws in an abrasive, comedic way. www.youtube.com/watch

Warning includes very strong language.

A little harsh but suprisingly accurate when it came to choices having benefits in ME2

[Rejoy Skinler]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Here's a review that puts forth many of the flaws in an abrasive, comedic way. www.youtube.com/watch

Warning includes very strong language.

This is spot on.