10273 réponses à ce sujet

[instantdeath999]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

uberdowzen wrote...

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Say uberdowzen, why the change of avatar?

Um, at risk of falling into some kind of hidden trap, I'm going to say because I felt like, I was getting a little sick of the other one. *Nervously awaits trap...*

*resists Admiral Ackbar meme*

I luld. Just wondering. Had to do a double take since I'm used to the geth underneath your username.

instantdeath999 wrote...

From what I've seen, the majority of the fans of ME were pleased with ME2.  Of course, sometime the minority is a lot louder than the majority.

instantdeath999 wrote...

I'm not a fan of critics myself.  Books critics and film critics I usually give some basic level of respect, since they tend to at least know what they are talking about.  Music and video game critics, however, are an entirely different subject. 

I won't get into music critics, considering just how subjective music is at its core and how so many modern critics are guilty of not listening to anything but the most mainstream, but video game critics are almost as bad.  It's very difficult to pin down exactly what makes a good game; in fact, by most game critics standards, completely rehashing a great game with improved graphics and a few new game modes is a perfect 10, and like music critics, are guilty of favoring more popular games for the sake of publicity.  I remember reading one case where a game was given a better than usual review because the particular website had ads for it.

I agree with you on the latter quote but not the former. The same was said for Tali's fanbase.

Just for the record, I totally think ME3 should bring back some RPG elements from ME1.  I love RPG's.  I still think ME2 was a fantastic game though.  Fantastic RPG?  In a way, though I consider it more of an action-rpg, where ME I'd lean slightly towards roleplaying action game... lol, if that makes any sense at all.

[instantdeath999]

Ecael wrote...

MassEffect762 wrote...

(Not that I'm trying to look for excuses)

Darth needs to add(imo) one more poll.

Age group involved, should help determine the "X" factor.(mindset/target audience)

Would be interesting to see what turns up.

People below a certain age would have quit playing the game after the second mission because of all the dialogue.

Well, I'm 17, but dialogue is actually my favorite part about Bioware games.  In fact, I spend times in KOTOR games switching out party members just to hear their opinions on different situations. 

EDIT: Agh, sorry for all the double posts.

Modifié par instantdeath999, 28 mai 2010 - 03:45 .

[Ecael]

instantdeath999 wrote...

Well, I'm 17, but dialogue is actually my favorite part about Bioware games.  In fact, I spend times in KOTOR games switching out party members just to hear their opinions on different situations. 

EDIT: Agh, sorry for all the double posts.

I didn't say 17 though.

[SkullandBonesmember]

instantdeath999 wrote...

Just for the record, I totally think ME3 should bring back some RPG elements from ME1.  I love RPG's.  I still think ME2 was a fantastic game though.  Fantastic RPG?  In a way, though I consider it more of an action-rpg, where ME I'd lean slightly towards roleplaying action game... lol, if that makes any sense at all.

Very well put. I'm tired of people saying both were "action RPGs".

[instantdeath999]

Ecael wrote...

instantdeath999 wrote...

Well, I'm 17, but dialogue is actually my favorite part about Bioware games.  In fact, I spend times in KOTOR games switching out party members just to hear their opinions on different situations. 

EDIT: Agh, sorry for all the double posts.

I didn't say 17 though.

Well, most teenagers do tend to have the attention spans of dead rats.

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

instantdeath999
wrote...

Just for the record, I totally think ME3 should bring
back some RPG elements from ME1.  I love RPG's.  I still think ME2 was a
fantastic game though.  Fantastic RPG?  In a way, though I consider
it more of an action-rpg, where ME I'd lean slightly towards roleplaying
action game... lol, if that makes any sense at all.

Very
well put. I'm tired of people saying both were "action RPGs".

It might actually be the other way around, now that I think about it... ME2 leans more towards action, ME1 towards RPG

[MassEffect762]

Ecael wrote...

MassEffect762 wrote...

(Not that I'm trying to look for excuses)

Darth needs to add(imo) one more poll.

Age group involved, should help determine the "X" factor.(mindset/target audience)

Would be interesting to see what turns up.

People below a certain age would have quit playing the game after the second mission because of all the dialogue.

I might just be suprised, didn't think so many old folks(30+) played Dragon Age.(Im 26)

You're more likely to take the word of a peer than that of some one younger than yourself.(not error proof)

I know plenty of kiddies(my cousins) who love dialogue so I don't think it encompases everyone.(though I get your point)

[Ecael]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

instantdeath999 wrote...

Just for the record, I totally think ME3 should bring back some RPG elements from ME1.  I love RPG's.  I still think ME2 was a fantastic game though.  Fantastic RPG?  In a way, though I consider it more of an action-rpg, where ME I'd lean slightly towards roleplaying action game... lol, if that makes any sense at all.

Very well put. I'm tired of people saying both were "action RPGs".

I define action on the amount of shooting and 'splosions in the game rather than the gameplay elements themselves.

And playing through both ME1 and ME2 while skipping dialogue to get another character ready (just a random Sentinel), there's nothing but shooting and 'splosions.

[uberdowzen]

instantdeath999 wrote...

Oh yeah.  No one is ever unbiased, though critics at least give effort.  Go to a mainstream game website, like gamespot, gamefaqs, ign or whatever, and look at some of the player reviews.  Yeah, most of them aren't very good.  Critics can be total idiots, but at least they have some level of writing skills and at least try to look at a game with an open mind... even if they don't always succeed.  

I think the same can be said in reverse, too, when critics give a game a really bad score.  I've personally had a lot of fun with games that get terrible reviews.  A lot of critics are paid to play tons and tons of games, so it's only natural that they may get tired of playing video games for a little while, or want to play a good game while they're stuck playing a bad game.  I think some of that frustration occasionally comes out when reviewing average games. 

I think sometimes this is an issue with critics being misunderstood. I do think that sometimes critic reviews are a bit too harsh on some games (probably from playing so many games) and have a tendency to focus on bad points and then explicably come out with a good score.

[uberdowzen]

Ecael wrote...

instantdeath999 wrote...

Well, I'm 17, but dialogue is actually my favorite part about Bioware games.  In fact, I spend times in KOTOR games switching out party members just to hear their opinions on different situations. 

EDIT: Agh, sorry for all the double posts.

I didn't say 17 though.

Yeah, but isn't the game rated Mature in the USA so you'd have to be at least 17 to play it? The lowest age you could say (as far as I know) would be 13 as that's the minimum age to play ME1 and ME2 here in NZ and I'm pretty sure that we have the lowest rating for the game in the world..

[Terror_K]

Ecael wrote...

They're critics, but they know a good game when they see one.

A good game doesn't necessarily mean a good sequel or a good RPG though.

uberdowzen wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Exactly. Which just proved that while BioWare claims to listen to its fans, it listens to professional generic critics much, much more. Which is why they seemed to have missed the points entirely about the real issues regarding elevators and The Mako in the original game. The loading screens and Hammerhead just prove this even moreso.

This seems to assume that none of the fans were happy with ME2. I'm a massive Mass Effect/Bioware fan and I was pleased with ME2.

Not at all. What I was saying was that when fans complained about aspects like the elevators and The Mako in the original game there were very few who wanted these elements gone, and the problems with these factors were quite clearly stated by the fans and solutions obvious. But instead of actually looking at the problem as a whole BioWare seemed to just look at the main words associated with the problem (i.e. elevators, and The Mako) and just binned them entirely, replacing them with things (i.e. loading screens and The Hammerhead) that seem to miss the point entirely as to what actually made the originals work where they did. Its as if they thought the words commonly associated with the problem were the problem, so they just axed them, when this was not the case. It's like saying "there's a problem with my dog. My dog has a broken leg, and my dog cannot walk" and the solution being "kill the dog" because that is the thing that has the problem, yet it is not the problem at all. But then, this is a common problem with ME2 overall: rather than solve the problem, eliminate the issue entirely.

uberdowzen wrote...

I think critics get far too much flak. Fans of games are always saying how stupid they are and how they couldn't review their way out of a paper bag, but the issue is that these are the fans who have far too much emotional attachment to a particular game and so their opinion is going to be swayed by their feelings more than anything. Critics very rarely get involved to the same degree and, if they are working for a magazine etc, they probably won't be the one who ends up reviewing that game.

Critics get flak from me personally because I've been reading computer game magazines since the late 80's, and I've found that game critics these days hand out scores of 9 or 10 far too readily and easily. It used to be that 5 really was the average score for a game, but now its rare to see a game get anything less than a 6. You flip through the average magazine these days and the scores are generally along the lines of 9, 9, 10, 8, 7, 8, 8 ,8 , 9, 9, 8, 8 and I play a lot of these games and usually find them to be very overrated. You even get sites like CVG reporting it as a news story when a big name game gets rated as a 7 or a 6 by somebody as if it were blasphemy, and that's not even a terrible score. Its as if critics these days are still judging modern games against Rise of The Robots, Shaq Fu, Superman 64 and E.T. or something. I mean, there was that huge controversy when that guy got fired for giving Kane and Lynch a 6 for crying out loud! Last time I checked a 6 is still above average. Except that no... today's average score is closer to an 8... 7 at the least. It's almost as if all games automatically get a 10 these days and then points are dropped as things annoy, rather than having to work their way up to a 10.

[Ecael]

Terror_K wrote...

Ecael wrote...

They're critics, but they know a good game when they see one.

A good game doesn't necessarily mean a good sequel or a good RPG though.

You'd have to compare the reviews to that of its predecessor, and then to other RPGs.

Critics get flak from me personally because I've been reading computer game magazines since the late 80's, and I've found that game critics these days hand out scores of 9 or 10 far too readily and easily. It used to be that 5 really was the average score for a game, but now its rare to see a game get anything less than a 6. You flip through the average magazine these days and the scores are generally along the lines of 9, 9, 10, 8, 7, 8, 8 ,8 , 9, 9, 8, 8 and I play a lot of these games and usually find them to be very overrated. You even get sites like CVG reporting it as a news story when a big name game gets rated as a 7 or a 6 by somebody as if it were blasphemy, and that's not even a terrible score. Its as if critics these days are still judging modern games against Rise of The Robots, Shaq Fu, Superman 64 and E.T. or something. I mean, there was that huge controversy when that guy got fired for giving Kane and Lynch a 6 for crying out loud! Last time I checked a 6 is still above average. Except that no... today's average score is closer to an 8... 7 at the least. It's almost as if all games automatically get a 10 these days and then points are dropped as things annoy, rather than having to work their way up to a 10.

That's why sites like GameRankings and MetaCritic exists. If certain reviewers start lowering their standards, then you have the right to be stingy about review scores. Different games are still judged based on their single-player OR their multi-player, though.

I don't start taking reviews seriously unless the GameRankings/MetaCritic score is above 90 (most like it), and if it's above 95 (almost everyone likes it), then it almost has to be good.

[instantdeath999]

uberdowzen wrote...

Ecael wrote...

instantdeath999 wrote...

Well, I'm 17, but dialogue is actually my favorite part about Bioware games.  In fact, I spend times in KOTOR games switching out party members just to hear their opinions on different situations. 

EDIT: Agh, sorry for all the double posts.

I didn't say 17 though.

Yeah, but isn't the game rated Mature in the USA so you'd have to be at least 17 to play it? The lowest age you could say (as far as I know) would be 13 as that's the minimum age to play ME1 and ME2 here in NZ and I'm pretty sure that we have the lowest rating for the game in the world..

Yeah, it's 17, though that's not to say the rules are never bent.  I remember playing some GTA game when I was 12.  Video games tend to get much harsher ratings than movies do, because of the totally illogical argument (that I've only heard from technophobes) that in a video game, "you're doing it".  You're actually killing the people on screen because you're pressing a button.  I've never bought this, because not only is pressing a button worlds apart from pulling a trigger on a gun, let alone shooting a person with it, but I actually think watching the extremely realistic looking deaths on giant movies screens is every bit as bad as killing someone in a game. 

[MassEffect762]

uberdowzen wrote...

Ecael wrote...

instantdeath999 wrote...

Well, I'm 17, but dialogue is actually my favorite part about Bioware games.  In fact, I spend times in KOTOR games switching out party members just to hear their opinions on different situations. 

EDIT: Agh, sorry for all the double posts.

I didn't say 17 though.

Yeah, but isn't the game rated Mature in the USA so you'd have to be at least 17 to play it? The lowest age you could say (as far as I know) would be 13 as that's the minimum age to play ME1 and ME2 here in NZ and I'm pretty sure that we have the lowest rating for the game in the world..

I'd bring up parenting but that's a can I really don't want to open.

I remember playing wolfenstien/doom/duke nukem 3D as a kid in my uncles room.(care free)

Modifié par MassEffect762, 28 mai 2010 - 04:25 .

[SkullandBonesmember]

Ecael-

http://reviews.teamx...s-and-Bolts/p1/





http://www.gamespot....ss&subj=6201534

http://www.eurogamer...s-review?page=1

http://gamestyle.com...nuts-and-bolts/

http://xbox.about.co.../fr/bknbrev.htm

http://www.giantbomb...-20586/reviews/

http://www.computera...e.php?id=201512

http://www.denofgeek...360_review.html

http://darkzero.co.u...bolts-xbox-360/

http://palgn.com.au/...s-bolts-review/

http://www.gamesxtre...lts/review.html

http://www.game-over..._and_Bolts.html

http://www.greenpixe...ts-Bolts-Review

http://www.reviewbus...ew.aspx?id=1710

http://www.atomicgam...nd-bolts-review

http://www.1up.com/d...cId=3171140&p=4

http://xbox360.ign.c...7/927126p1.html  _UK review_

http://xbox360.ign.c...9/929672p1.html _Australia review_ 

http://www.gamepro.c...oie-nuts-bolts/

http://gamecinemahd....ts-bolts-review

http://www.gamesrada...927172414578031

http://www.cheatcc.c...oltsreview.html

http://archive.video...nd-bolts-p1.asp

http://g4tv.com/game...s--bolts/index/

http://worthplaying..../reviews/56613/

http://gameinformer..../22/review.aspx

http://www.gamefaqs....-nuts-and-bolts

Alrighty. After 31 mainstream reviews, including my original 2, that comes to an average of at least 8 out of 10. Should I cite more reviews?

Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 28 mai 2010 - 04:28 .

[uberdowzen]

instantdeath999 wrote...

Yeah, it's 17, though that's not to say the rules are never bent.  I remember playing some GTA game when I was 12.  Video games tend to get much harsher ratings than movies do, because of the totally illogical argument (that I've only heard from technophobes) that in a video game, "you're doing it".  You're actually killing the people on screen because you're pressing a button.  I've never bought this, because not only is pressing a button worlds apart from pulling a trigger on a gun, let alone shooting a person with it, but I actually think watching the extremely realistic looking deaths on giant movies screens is every bit as bad as killing someone in a game. 

Yeah, it pisses me off too. I seem to remember reading somewhere though that half those studies that say it's different because it's, like, you're actually killing someone are for the most part studies that show that different parts of your brain activate when you're playing a video game than when you're watching a movie. And then the other half a correlation studies, which then have to be backed up by a cause and effect study, of which their seem to be very few to none.

[uberdowzen]

MassEffect762 wrote...

I'd bring up parenting but that's a can I really don't want to open.

I remember playing wolfenstien/doom/duke nukem 3D as a kid in my uncles room.(care free)

It's utter crap anyway, half the arguments against violent video games are that people who commit violent crimes often own an 360. That's like saying if you own a dishwasher and commit a violent crime it must be related to the dishwasher.

[Ecael]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Alrighty. After 31 mainstream reviews, including my original 2, that comes to an average of at least 8 out of 10. Should I cite more reviews?

You could have just used GameRankings, you know.



And Banjo-Kazooie on the X-Box got a B (80%) average. That's to be expected.

Banjo-Kazooie 1 and 2 on the N64 were much better back in the days of Nintendo and Rare working together. Both of those games scored 90-92%.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Ecael wrote...

You could have just used GameRankings, you know.

Well, half of those are and aren't from GameRankings, but figured I'd cite all of them individually.

[SkullandBonesmember]

As for BK1 and 2, they deserved their ratings, but BK3 didn't, and the established fanbase almost universally agrees with that.

[Ecael]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

As for BK1 and 2, they deserved their ratings, but BK3 didn't, and the established fanbase almost universally agrees with that.

Any rating well under 90% is already suspect, as it suggests that there's not much agreement among the critics.

Around 60% is where everyone starts to agree that it's universally bad.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Nuts and Bolts was actually interesting while the old Banjo Kazooie games were just Super Mario 64 rehashes. Banjo Kazooie fanbase?

[MassEffect762]

uberdowzen wrote...

MassEffect762 wrote...

I'd bring up parenting but that's a can I really don't want to open.

I remember playing wolfenstien/doom/duke nukem 3D as a kid in my uncles room.(care free)

It's utter crap anyway, half the arguments against violent video games are that people who commit violent crimes often own an 360. That's like saying if you own a dishwasher and commit a violent crime it must be related to the dishwasher.

Or that inanimate tools kill people.

[cachx]

Ecael wrote...

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

As for BK1 and 2, they deserved their ratings, but BK3 didn't, and the established fanbase almost universally agrees with that.

Any rating well under 90% is already suspect, as it suggests that there's not much agreement among the critics.

Around 60% is where everyone starts to agree that it's universally bad.

It has been said a lot of times that games are rated on a 7 to 10 scale. Bad and average games get a 70-something score, specially if that specific bad/average game has advertsing all over the reviewer's site.

Well, at least they used to, I don't really listen to scores anymore.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Nuts and Bolts was actually interesting while the old Banjo Kazooie games were just Super Mario 64 rehashes. Banjo Kazooie fanbase?

http://forums.banjo-...ms/default.aspx

http://www.rare-extreme.com/forums/

You made my point.

Banjo Kazooie has a cult following with those who preferred the N64 over the more popular Playstation growing up.

BK3 went the route Bioware would eventually end up going. Trying to "reach out" to a wider audience at the expense of their already established fanbase. TerrorK put it perfectly a few pages back.

Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 28 mai 2010 - 04:51 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Nuts and Bolts was actually interesting while the old Banjo Kazooie games were just Super Mario 64 rehashes. Banjo Kazooie fanbase?

http://forums.banjo-...ms/default.aspx

http://www.rare-extreme.com/forums/

Banjo Kazooie has a cult following with those who preferred the N64 over the more popular Playstation growing up.

BK3 went the route Bioware would eventually end up going. Trying to "reach out" to a wider audience at the expense of their already established fanbase. TerrorK put it perfectly a few pages back.

I'm sorry, but BK3's failing was that it was just too damn complex for the target audience. 

EDIT:  Also I would like to point out that bland fanboyism for N64 is detrimental because Rare while htey made intersting games at the time, were vastly overrated as a developer because they did stupid design decisions when making these games.

Jet Force Gemini damn near ruined by collection
Conker's Bad Fur Day from a gameplay standpoint was another uninspiring platformer
Killer Instinct, frankly took all the bad parst of Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter 2 and amplified them.

Viva Pinata on they are a much more intersting developer than they ever were under Nintendo

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 28 mai 2010 - 04:53 .