Disappointment With Mass Effect 2? An Open Discussion.
#3501
Guest_justinnstuff_*
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 05:55
Guest_justinnstuff_*
Back on topic, I still have hopes that ME3 will be decent, and I don't think the multiplayer will be for ME3, but for a spinoff title.
I'm worried about the movie though.
#3502
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 06:00
Yeah, I think it'll be great. We'll actually be dealing with the reapers, and everything will tie back together.
It was like, ME1 = awesome > expectations are raised > EA stigma > ME2 is ok, not as awesome > much grumbling from the community > BioWare pulls out all the stops and ME3 melts our brains, we cry tears of joy to see our actions come to fruition, and I'm sure something sad will happen that will tug at our heartstrings.
The movie, will probably suck just because that seems to be the general rule of games-turned-movies. But I'll still see it because OMG MASS EFFECT, and I want to see aliens on the big screen.
#3503
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 06:08
Yeah, that's true, but I think that tests out your loyalty even more, because it makes you a little angry with the character. It's like your first fight:PCrimmsonwind wrote...
They will for sure, they've already said there will be consequences if you don't stay loyal. But it could be anything from a slap on the wrist to them leaving you. They promised bigger consequences in ME2 first, but all we got was an email, or stonewalled. Leaves a bit of a bad taste in your mouth.
I know just about every one started with ME1, I was just saying people are going to like whatever they start with the majority of the time.I didn't want the game to be exactly the same, I judst wanted a more continued story line. I like some of the changes they made, but like you said, they were exaggerated. As for the whole "simply because they started with ME1 instead of ME2," that's because ME1 came out, you know, first. So yeah, we're a little miffed that some of the stuff we did in ME1 was kind of glossed over. Which led to ME2 feeling lke a different game.
I've always seen ME1 and ME2 as almost completly different games, that were made that way so that when ME3 comes out it could have the best of both games. And I also believe ME2 wasn't exactly a sequel as much as an exansion of the ME universe. I mean that Shepard is learning more about the reapers before he goes out to face them.The story was good, but it didn't feel like a sequel. It just felt like a different game with cameos from the old characters. The exceptions being Garrus and Tali.
#3504
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 06:10
It's almost as fabulous as you:wizard:justinnstuff wrote...
@AZ Rush - I love that sig XD
#3505
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 06:12
“Q: Mass Effect 3 was announced some time ago. But your work on ME2 showed that while the decision structure carried over, the story itself is fairly separate from the first game. Why is that?Gundar3 wrote...
Darth Drago wrote...
Yea and don’t forget that they already mentioned that ME3 will also be a stand alone game.
Can anyone verify this? I mean, its getting to the point that if each of the games are so completely stand alone that the plots have a hard time linking, why bother calling it a trilogy?
A: All of the the Mass Effect titles standalone. The beginning of Mass Effect 2 is really meant to let players experience Mass Effect for the first time. We really want to look at Mass Effect 3 as a standalone title where the ending is going to feel satisfying.”
That’s from The Gamer Access and an interview with Casey Hudson at:
http://www.thegameraccess.com/interviews/360/bioware-mass-effect-3-will-track-1000-decisions
The topic that this came up in:
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/2311762
Modifié par Darth Drago, 31 mai 2010 - 06:14 .
#3506
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 06:29
On a lesser note I've got to agree with those who felt like rats in a maze throughout ME2. The game seemed to move faster but the sense of freedom with exploration was severly limited.
#3507
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 06:36
P3G4SU5 wrote...
Mesina2 wrote...
P3G4SU5 wrote...
Mesina2 wrote...
LiquidGrape wrote...
Just wanted to chip in with a graphic I found, which granted me a chuckle.
It does somewhat cover my issues with the narrative of ME2 as well.
I can get tutorial( plothole with Wilson) but rest?
Probably referring to the events on Horizon. You find out from TIM that the Collectors went there because they knew Willams/Alenko was there (courtesy of TIM). Yet despite this they don't pick up this person of great interest first, instead they collect a bunch of other colonists. Great prioritising don't you think by such a highly intelligent race...? And this isn't even mentioning the fact that you have a ship in orbit. Why doesn't it bomb the Collector ship? What the heck is it doing up there? Sure, EDI is busy calibrating the turrets, but I don't think Joker needs to have his hand held whilst piloting/shooting. But hang on - we're told the SR-2 has twice the mass of the SR-1 and it's too big to enter low orbit so that makes sense... Oh wait, it's not if you need a pickup at the end of each Firewalker mission...
Then there's blatant trap in the form of the 'disabled Collector ship' and the complete failure of Sheperd's team of blowing it away on sight. I can understand maybe wanting to gather intel on the poorly understood enemy but wouldn't it be a good idea to be placing explosives as you travel through the ship using your specialists (since its obviously a trap and the objective of the entire game is to STOP THE COLLECTORS). Sheperd is meant to be trained at the highest level of the Alliance military, he's an N7 after all, yet he has no grasp of tactics or contingency whe it comes to venturing into an enemy ship. Right.
At the same time the player could be using your tech experts to record everything you see for the Alliance/Council. Wouldn't these occassions (along with Veetor's footage of Collectors collecting humans on Freedom's Progress) have been ideal oppotunites, gathering proof to get the Alliance mobilised, even if the Council are too blind to help? At least an Alliance evacuation order of the outer colonies could have been made since they are reluctant to commit militarily to the Terminus Systems.
As for the endgame, well it makes absolutely no sense for the Collector's to be making a new Reaper under Harbinger's orders. What can it even do once built? It can't survive a confrontation with the Citadel/Earth fleets so why bother even building it? To save time and have it ready for when the Reapers arrive? The Reapers are ageless, why would the draw attention and risk discovery by building a Reaper when they could just wait until they arrive in force and then take all the humans they want without having to worry about reprisals. Even if they do believe themselves to be safe from attacks beyond the O4 Relay, their ship is at risk every time it ventures out.
1st OK
2nd what explosives?
3rd Alliance controls Council if you don't sav them so I don't think they would move a finger.
4th Maybe they planned to do that once they took control of Citadel but Sovereing failure wasn't in they plan?
2nd: Explosives such as the one used at the game end if you recall (they resemble the grenades from ME1). I'm assuming a ship outfitted for war against the Collectors has explosives somehwere in the armory.
3rd: I'll just copy paste a comment I made elsewhere to explain why the Alliance would be forced to act:
I seem to remeber that you befriend a reporter in ME1 and basically make her career (Emily Wong if memory serves). It would have been nice if the developers had allowed the player to use
one of the news reporters to expose the Collectors through recorded vids
(use your damn omni-tool Shepard) of them and what they are doing to
humans from the colonie (from Veetor's footage on Freedom's Progress, Horizon or even the
interior of the Collector ship/base). The shock and outcry of the
remaining human colonies and Earth would have pressured the Alliance to
act, if not with military presence then with evacuation efforts."
4th: The human Reaper began construction after Soverign's failure in the 2 year period after the intro of ME2. I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. Please explain
2nd they just overload the system and put ONE granade
3rd then why did you mention Alliance?!
4th I said planned not started
#3508
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 06:47
#3509
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 06:56
#3510
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 07:00
#3511
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 07:11
WARNING: Some nit-picking will occur.
The whole universe just feels small. I think I know why. In ME1, when you were using the Galaxy Map, you controlled a Cursor. In ME2, you control the ship itself. There's the problem. When I'm able to physically drive the ship from one end of the galaxy to another in a minute, the universe just feels small.
*Baseline*- Leave the ship flying to Joker.
In ME1, the Mako was one of my favorite things, mainly because I actually mastered driving it. I enjoyed the large barren planets, they were huge!
And one more thing on the size of the universe, read this: www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/7198-Extra-Punctuation-Connectivity
Characters:
I really enjoyed the work that was put into your teammates in ME2, but what I hated was how the ones you got at the end of the game felt like I didn't really know them when the last mission came around. And having their personal missions be optional made them seem like a waste of time.
Let me gain the team from the start, and build the relationships through the story's natural progression.
And one more thing.
PLEASE STOP TRYING TO BE LIKE GEARS OF WAR
Mass Effect was fun as an RPG with great characters and a great story. The combat was just something to mull over time until the next conversation. Now, everywhere I go is just a battlefield filled with Chest-High Walls.
And why am I hearing rumors of Mass Effect Multiplayer. I would be just fine if you made a completely separate game in the Mass Effect universe that was multiplayer or co-op centric, but please, Bioware, I'm begging you. Don't water down Mass Effect 3 just so you can add multiplayer to it.
#3512
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 07:12
#3513
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 07:45
uberdowzen wrote...
iakus wrote...
This is most definitely NOT a more personal story. Not for Shepard anyway. Shepard has been cut off from everything that could be called personal: rank in the Alliance military, friends, family, the Council, ship and crew. Even the memry of Shepard's accomplishments is being swept away. But do you get the chance to reconnect with any of that? No, or at best to a very limited degree, mainly though coincidence.
Instead Shepard spends most of the game solving the personal problems of the squad. Not a bad thing in principle, but it gets really really boring to do that a dozen times, then realize that this is, in fact, the entire game.
Plot threads being continued? Well, sort of. The geth and genophage get expanded on, and we see a little bit of quarian life. But they were secondary plotlines before and remain so now. The main thrust of the game, we were led to believe, was the Collectors. I think I spent more time in the game fighting and investigating the geth.
I got more excitement about a confrontation in ME 3 from the ending of ME 1 than ME 2. in essence, you're in exactly the same position at the end of each game. Only in ME 1 you're fresh from a Reaper kill. A real reaper too, not...that...
Personal was possibly not the word I was looking for. I probably meant more emotional. ME2 gave me a feeling that I though only really good novels and movies could give you. I actually care about these companions, there feelings, their drive and (except for Jack who they can retcon for all I care) there weren't any irritating characters (*cough*Liara*cough*Ashley*cough*). I do agree that they probably should have stopped at 8 and maybe do something about the collectors for those final missions instead. I have a tendency to ignore the conversations for Thane and Samara as I kind of just want to get on with it at that point.
You don't sense the plots about the Quarian-Geth war and the Krogan Genophage wrapping up? I personal theory is that ME3 is going to be about gathering the races of the galaxy to fight the Reapers and how these conflicts are resolved is going to be an important factor.
My other theory is that ME3 is going to have some kind of Cerberus vs Alliance mechanic. I'm guessing the pro-cerberus and pro-alliance choices you made in ME2 are going to determine you allegiance in ME3.
See, I got that more emotional feeling from ME 1 than ME 2. the Eden Prime beacon was creepy yet facinating. The Spectre induction gave me that majestic, heroic feeling, which carried over with Shepard's speech to the crew. Benezia's final speech (especially if Liara is there), the conundrum with the rachni, all of it made me feel like I had a part in a major story, a novel or a movie like you said. The characters in ME 2 were okay, just too many of them and not well connected to the overall story. (And Ashley happens to be my favorite character in ME 1. Her and Wrex.)
The Quarian-Geth war and the genophage stories were advanced, but certainly not resolved. Gathering the races wil probably be a big factor in ME 3, though given 1 Reaper = 1 fleet (more or less), I think there's going to be more to it than gathering a ginormous armada.
I can only hope the Cerberus vs Alliance choices play a factor. I really, really didn't like how ME 2 railroaded you into working for Cerberus with nary a word of complaint. At least they could have let Shepard twist a little trying to find other allies to work with instead. A chance to really make a choice between them would be long overdue.
uberdowzen wrote...
My point is that I think there's more wrong with that inventory than just a bad interface. It could be mostly fixed on PC just by adding stacking, the issue is that the game is console lead, so whatever works best for 360 is what will happen. There are far too many junk items. The ammo system was screwed. The upgrade system made little to no difference. And as Bioware pointed out, it didn't really make much sense in lore terms. Also remember that on console, Bioware has never done a good inventory. It was such a relief that the inventory in JE was so basic because (after the mess that was the KOTOR inventory) it was a relief just to be able to focus on the plot.
Still don't see how reducing/refining the inventory system isn't a better option than scrapping it completely.
And I never had a problem with KOTOR's inventory.
They get the job done, not particurly well or in any kind of style, but they get it done. Honestly, ME1's character development system was pathetic compared DAO, NWN, JE, Oblivion...it just wasn't that great. ME2's was great either. They were both acceptable. They didn't hamper the experience, they improved it a bit. They were acceptable.
DAO and NWN I agree were better with character customization. JE was about on par with ME 1. Oblivion's was much much worse. I quit playing that game twice because of it. ME 2's is "acceptable" because it doesn't hamper the experience. But it doesn't add anything to it either. I'ts bland and boring. Kinda like N7 missions.
Question: you design a really cool vehicle which (even more cooly) is governed by a real time physics engine. Great. One issue, it goes a bit nuts on mountains. Doesn't matter, let's force the player to drive over kilometres of jaggy, low polygon mountains to reach randomly placed bases.
Rule Number 1 of game design: If there are flaws in your engine, don't spend a third of your game shoving them in the player's face
If mountains are kiling the enjoyment of vehicle travel, fix the mountains. Then people might like vehicle travel more. Baby. Bathwater.
{/quote}
And, yes, it is a break from corridor shooting, which is fine. The only issue is that it's incredibly boring. Driving across all that dull landscape...
Rule Number 2 of game design: If the player starts listening to podcasts while playing your game, something is very, very wrong.
Depends. How entertaining are the podcasts?
Again, this could be changed by altering the landscape a bit. Maybe adding hidden missions that don't show up on the map right away. You have to look for them on the ground. Perhaps enemy ambushes. Heck, maybe if the landscapes got prettied up people would liek them more. I dunno, like I said I actually liked the Mako.
I actually quite enjoyed some of the N7 missions, much in the same way I enjoyed most of the UNC quests, once I reached them. The only fantastic thing about the UCWs was the shifty space cow. That was actually awesome (not sarcasm).
To each his own, I guess.
Perhaps more interesting persons, creatures, and landmarks should have been added. I'm not saying planetary exploration was perfect, but it did add an extra layer of interest to the game. Instead, of improving on it, howerver, out came the chainsaw.
Modifié par iakus, 31 mai 2010 - 07:50 .
#3514
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 07:46
Modifié par iakus, 31 mai 2010 - 07:47 .
#3515
Guest_worm_burner_*
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 07:54
Guest_worm_burner_*
Alex_SM wrote...
Mass Effect 3 main quest is probably going to be like Dragon Age's one.
Please NO. I don't want to end up playing Dragon Age 2190 or something. Hopefully they can come up with something different for ME
#3516
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 08:04
There was something kind of fun about finding the tallest, sheerest mountain on a planet and climbing it in the Mako just to give the proverbial middle finger to near-right angles.
#3517
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 08:20
That just doesn't make sense. Universe felt big because you didn't have to fly yourself but planets felt big because you had to drive through them? Few square miles of land is big enough for a planet for you?Fuhjem24 wrote...
The whole universe just feels small. I think I know why. In ME1, when you were using the Galaxy Map, you controlled a Cursor. In ME2, you control the ship itself. There's the problem. When I'm able to physically drive the ship from one end of the galaxy to another in a minute, the universe just feels small.
*Baseline*- Leave the ship flying to Joker.
In ME1, the Mako was one of my favorite things, mainly because I actually mastered driving it. I enjoyed the large barren planets, they were huge!
DAO and NWN I agree were better with character customization. JE
was about on par with ME 1. Oblivion's was much much worse. I quit
playing that game twice because of it. ME 2's is "acceptable" because
it doesn't hamper the experience. But it doesn't add anything to it
either. I'ts bland and boring. Kinda like N7 missions.
Oblivion was basically a classless system. How the heck can it have less customization?
#3518
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 08:20
uberdowzen wrote...
iakus wrote...
Big twist developed from what Luke learned in ANH ie: is father being betrayed and murdered.
That bounty Han had put on him really came back to bite him, huh?
But most importantly:
Luke learned the ways of the Force: a continuation from the previous episode where he learned his father was a Jedi and he could become one as well.
Empire did not dump virtually the entire cast, heroes,sidekicks, and villains, for newer, souped-up versions. Nor did it completely forget about the Empire for the majority of the movie. ME 2, if they changed some names, could be a seperate game altogether.
And the twist about the collectors doesn't count at all...
Were you honestly expecting ME2 to have the same companions as ME1? And it's not like they were retconned or anything, they still appeared in the game. In Empire, Luke is split up from the others how is this any different from Shepherd losing his team?
ME2 is a continuation of Shepherd's struggle against the Reapers. The whole game is about fighting them.
And saying you could just change some names and ME2 could be an entirely seperate game is ridiculous, that basically applies to anything. If you just change the names of the characters in any Bond movie, it becomes a completely new film.
The twist is practically the only link the game had to ME 1. Leave that line out, and the villains might have well been the Blue Suns with some new tech. Actually, given the number of Blue Suns you end up fighting in the game, that might have made more sense...
No I wasn't expecting the same companions. Bioware made that clear long before ME 2 came out (I'm actually a little suprised Garrus and Tali are recruitable) I was also fine with that, because I expected a logical reason Shepard would be alone in this. Shepard was on a deep cover assignment. Or maybe on detatched duty when something big goes down (Another Skyllian Blitz?). Maybe he's given a super-secret mission by the Council that literally no one else could be trusted with. But what happens? He's dead and everyone hates him for it!
Luke may have been separated from his companions, but it was voluntary, and they still fit into the story. Honestly, if we could have switched perspectives to the Virmire Survivor, Liara, or Wrex at certain points to follow their adventures, it might have made for a better game. It certainly would have linked better to ME 1.
And ME 2 is about everything but fighting the Reapers. It's about fighting Blue Suns, Eclipse, Blood Pack, even the geth. It's about solving family problems, friendships lost, being railroaded into working for Cerberus, and somewhere in there they managed to fit three Collector missions and a couple of Reaper mentions.
If you change the names in a James Bond movie, you still have a British secret agent who likes martinis, women and plays with high-tech gadgets wile foiling the plots of international criminal organizations.
Change the names in ME 2. Is Cerberus recognizable? Shepard sure seems to not recognize them. Why is the Citadel allowing a ship with a Cerberus logo on the side of it to dock there? People already don't know what you're talking about when you mention Reapers (including the Council!). Is Ashley/Kaiden's reaction at all what you'd expect given their friendship (or more) in the past? How is Liara at all the same? From nerdy archaeologist to "I CAN KILL YOU WITH MY BRAIN!" information broker in two years? People move on, yes, but the cast seems to have had entire brain transplants. Either this is a different game, or else Kaiden should have had an "evil Spock" goatee when you met him.
Modifié par iakus, 31 mai 2010 - 08:47 .
#3519
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 08:38
KitsuneRommel wrote...
DAO and NWN I agree were better with character customization. JE
was about on par with ME 1. Oblivion's was much much worse. I quit
playing that game twice because of it. ME 2's is "acceptable" because
it doesn't hamper the experience. But it doesn't add anything to it
either. I'ts bland and boring. Kinda like N7 missions.
Oblivion was basically a classless system. How the heck can it have less customization?
It didn't have less customization. It had broken customization. Oblivion essentially rewarded you for keeping your primary skills low. Everything in the game leveled with you. but you only gained levels when you got 10 (I think) skillups in the ones you marked as your primary skills. Thus if you took, say, alchemy and really worked on it, you'll soon find enemies hitting a lot harder, even if you were no better at combat or magic. So a cheap way to get through the game is to pick skills you'll never use as your "primary" abilities and raise all your combat skills until you were a virtual killing machine.
Personally, I liked the Fallout 2 system (also a classless one) Skillpoints per level, spend them as you wish. Past a certain point, you get diminishing returns. Every few levels, you qualify for a perk. Probably wouldn't work too well in a ME setting, but oh well.
#3520
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 08:41
#3521
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 08:48
iakus wrote...
It didn't have less customization. It had broken customization.
Well that's an entirely different argument and I agree with you somewhat.
#3522
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 08:49
THE EASINESS OF THE GAME(ORIGINAL ONE HAD THIS ONE TOO). I FOUND THE GAME ABIT TOO EASY, EVEN ON INSANITY. THERE SHOULD BE...AN EVEN INSANER DIFFICULTY THAT TIMES THE ALREADY HARD MISSIONS AND MAKES MISSLES DEVASTATING.
LACK OF VEHICLE FIGHTS OUTSIDE THE FIREWALKER PACK. WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO
TL;DR
MOAR EXPLORATION AND HARDER DIFFICULTY.
#3523
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 08:51
I think insanity is pretty tough. Soldier class supposedly makes it a breeze, but I'm still trying to beat it, and I hate playing soldier. But MOAR EXPLORATION indeed.Sago_mulch wrote...
PROBLEMS WITH ME2?
THE EASINESS OF THE GAME(ORIGINAL ONE HAD THIS ONE TOO). I FOUND THE GAME ABIT TOO EASY, EVEN ON INSANITY. THERE SHOULD BE...AN EVEN INSANER DIFFICULTY THAT TIMES THE ALREADY HARD MISSIONS AND MAKES MISSLES DEVASTATING.
LACK OF VEHICLE FIGHTS OUTSIDE THE FIREWALKER PACK. WITHOUT BEING ABLE TOBEAM DOWNFLY DOWN TO THE SURFACE WITH MY SUPER-SPACE TANK AND WHIRL AROUND ON THE SURFACE REMOVES THE FEELING OF TANGIBLE BIGNESS OF THE ME UNIVERSE. NOW IT JUST FEELS LIKE I'M AT AN AMUSEMENT PARK MOVING BETWEEN THE VARIOUS AMUSEMENTS OF THE PARK, THOUGH FUN IT GETS ABIT REPETITIVE.
TL;DR
MOAR EXPLORATION AND HARDER DIFFICULTY.
#3524
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 09:29
chzr wrote...
so you call standing in front of almost violent red laser and then dying a tiny mistake? jumping into easily avoidable rocket is tiny mistake too? lolwut, what's a "big mistake" then?
What if you're being flanked and have to come out of cover to return fire? There's a moment on this in Therum, on the parts just before you fight the armature. If you run down into the centre of the pit and take cover there (before taking out the snipers) the Geth have a tendency to flank you. You can't shoot at them from in cover, but if you come out your head sticks out just above the rock. Dead.
#3525
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 09:35
tonnactus wrote...
Like you wrote,high level enemies should have resistences that for example reduce the duration/power of biotics.Right,resistences,not basicly Immunies.
More diverse enemy groups where enemy biotics could do the same to the player or techs that damp their ablities.
Problem solved,nothing is overpowered.
Wait, you enjoyed flopping around on the floor, unable to give orders while being shot at?
When talking about some things are overpowered, what about Adrenaline Rush that double the weapon damage of the soldier and gives him a damage reduction at level 4???
This might just be me, but I never found Adrenaline Rush unbalanced.
Or i try just an other example to show you how dumb the "protection system" in this game is.Just imagine enemies like harbinger, geth primes and heavy mechs have some anti cloak devices or could prevent the use of adrenaline rush.. The rage on this forums would be enormous and it would be right so.
But that doesn't make any sense. It does make sense for powerful enemies to be able to resist biotics. Biotics would be way OP if they always worked. Say there's a YMIR mech standing near an edge. Just use throw and fling it off. How is that balanced. Biotics also reduce armor (this is the main purpose of warp) the only issue is shields and even on a YMIR a few quick blasts from a submachine gun will bring down.
They are in the same league as a harbinger drone or a scion. Good gameplay has to make sense.That singularity stop harbinger drones and scions, but not geth primes, heavy mechs,varren and fenris mechs doesnt make any sense.
Good gameplay has to make sense, basically equates to bad gameplay is fine as long as it makes sense.
I give you another example. The sentinel as the "jack of all trades" getting better cooldown or power damage then the adept or engineer could get.
An allrounder is better then specialists???
I call this huge bull****. Nothing against this class.
You seem to be judging balance mostly on stats rather than how it actually plays. Have you played a soldier? Does it seem unbalanced?




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