10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Lumikki wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

HOW SHEPARD SURVIVED THE CRASH

Hehe, funny story. I think I will keep my assumption that trajectory of Shepards body was not directed to planet, but pass it. You know same ways that if satelites are on sertain distance from planets gravity, it's can with very slow speed to stay there in orbit. Planets gravity gets very low very fast when there is enough distance.

My story also explains how Cerberus was able to revive Shepard: he stayed alive for a prolonged period of time, and "died" of freezing only minutes before the Blue Suns recovered him and put in suspended animation capsule. Therefore Shepard's brain did not suffer any significant damage, (although obviously some split personality and cognition impairment issues have place after Project Lazarus).

[Fuhjem24]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Fuhjem24 wrote...

The whole universe just feels small. I think I know why. In ME1, when you were using the Galaxy Map, you controlled a Cursor. In ME2, you control the ship itself. There's the problem. When I'm able to physically drive the ship from one end of the galaxy to another in a minute, the universe just feels small. 
*Baseline*- Leave the ship flying to Joker. 

In ME1, the Mako was one of my favorite things, mainly because I actually mastered driving it. I enjoyed the large barren planets, they were huge!

That just doesn't make sense. Universe felt big because you didn't have to fly yourself but planets felt big because you had to drive through them? Few square miles of land is big enough for a planet for you?

Let me clear that up. The land you can drive on is about a a square mile. Going from one end to another takes a few minutes, just like in real life. You're this big truck on this small piece of land, and it just seems realistic that you can traverse it in a small amount of time.

Then you have the Normandy in space. Here you are, this 100-something meter long ship, and you're floating in a very large solar system. Even at speeds greater than light speeds, it should take roughly 5 minutes to go from one end to another. It takes 5 seconds. What's more is when you're in the Galaxy view and you're moving this comparatively tiny ship across a 100,000 light year long galaxy in a few seconds. Even with the assistance of Mass Relays, the time it takes to move from one end to another in the ME universe can take DAYS.

What I was talking about with the Cursor from ME1 was that the Galaxy Map seemed like it was just a map when you had a cursor instead of the ship. It made sense that you could move a holograph over a small map in such little time.

That's what I was saying.

Also, Yahtzee's point on Connectivity makes sense, too. Landing or docking on a planet, then manually leaving the ship felt like you really were travelling somewhere.

Just think of Half-Life 2. Everywhere you went, you manually went there yourself. No cut-aways, no cinematics. The only things that came close were the teleporters, but you still walked IN and OUT of them yourself. And the world felt connected; big. 

[Zulu_DFA]

Fuhjem24 wrote...

Just think of Half-Life 2. Everywhere you went, you manually went there yourself. No cut-aways, no cinematics. The only things that came close were the teleporters, but you still walked IN and OUT of them yourself. And the world felt connected; big. 

Portal > ME2

[SkullandBonesmember]

Crimmsonwind wrote...

@ Iakus- Even Liara's voice actor was a bit taken aback by the change in the character. That says something. Also awesome post, well broken down.

Cool! It wouldn't surprise me but do you have a source?

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Completing levels by trial and error is not tactics. At all.

But it's a challenge to the 500th power! Therefore fun by default.

Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 01 juin 2010 - 02:52 .

[Sharn01]

Fuhjem24 wrote...

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Fuhjem24 wrote...

The whole universe just feels small. I think I know why. In ME1, when you were using the Galaxy Map, you controlled a Cursor. In ME2, you control the ship itself. There's the problem. When I'm able to physically drive the ship from one end of the galaxy to another in a minute, the universe just feels small. 
*Baseline*- Leave the ship flying to Joker. 

In ME1, the Mako was one of my favorite things, mainly because I actually mastered driving it. I enjoyed the large barren planets, they were huge!

That just doesn't make sense. Universe felt big because you didn't have to fly yourself but planets felt big because you had to drive through them? Few square miles of land is big enough for a planet for you?

Let me clear that up. The land you can drive on is about a a square mile. Going from one end to another takes a few minutes, just like in real life. You're this big truck on this small piece of land, and it just seems realistic that you can traverse it in a small amount of time.

Then you have the Normandy in space. Here you are, this 100-something meter long ship, and you're floating in a very large solar system. Even at speeds greater than light speeds, it should take roughly 5 minutes to go from one end to another. It takes 5 seconds. What's more is when you're in the Galaxy view and you're moving this comparatively tiny ship across a 100,000 light year long galaxy in a few seconds. Even with the assistance of Mass Relays, the time it takes to move from one end to another in the ME universe can take DAYS.

What I was talking about with the Cursor from ME1 was that the Galaxy Map seemed like it was just a map when you had a cursor instead of the ship. It made sense that you could move a holograph over a small map in such little time.

That's what I was saying.

Also, Yahtzee's point on Connectivity makes sense, too. Landing or docking on a planet, then manually leaving the ship felt like you really were travelling somewhere.

Just think of Half-Life 2. Everywhere you went, you manually went there yourself. No cut-aways, no cinematics. The only things that came close were the teleporters, but you still walked IN and OUT of them yourself. And the world felt connected; big. 

While ME did a better job of making the galaxy seem large, they both did a poor job of making players realize how much time was actually lapsing in the game, ME2 was even worse then ME about this.  When you travel from one star system to another nearby star system that has no mass relay, the trip would take days, and possibly weeks.  Shepard is not standing at the galaxy map during the entire trip, s/he would be exercizing, eating, sleeping bathing and mingling with the crew among numerous other things.

Even at the maximum speed available with the technology in Mass Effect it would take 23 years to travel across the galaxy without the aid of the mass relays, this is why its such an important plan for the reapers to shut them down.  I only bring this up because a lot of people seem to think that much of what happened in ME is a race against time but really it was not.  The origonal ME would have probably spanned over a month in time even if you skipped all the side quests completely, and I still think of many of the sidequests in ME as opprotunistic, because whats the big deal if you take half a day to do a favor for Hacket when its already going to take you over a week to get to your destination, if 6 to 12 hours is going to make or break your success on a galactic scale endeavor you have already failed before you began.

[uberdowzen]

IoCaster wrote...

He actually said "one of the worst plots in the history of gaming sequels". It was the very first sentence in the video. Don't misrepresent what was said. That's a slimey and generally despicable tactic.

I do actually apologise for that comment. I wrote the post about an hour after watching the video so had forgotten that he said sequels. I still disagree with the point though.

What's the problem? Does it truly bother you so much that some people think that the ME2 plot was idiotic, contrived and didn't function very well as a sequel?

If you have such a problem with the plot in ME, then by all means, make your own video analysis of it. Upload it to youtube and post a link.

Personally, I enjoy playing ME2, but I also think that the plot is a bunch of cobbled together nonsense. I can acknowledge that there are some contrived elements in the plot of ME as well, but not near the same level of incomprehensible "wtf?!?" as ME2.

I think it's idiotic that people say the plot is appalling when, though it isn't as good as ME1's, it's not bad. In fact, I think it's very good.

Way to miss my point completely. Why should I have to go out of my way to make a youtube video to prove my point when I've just posted all my thoughts here?

Some contrived elements? My post points out how the entire plot is essentially superfluous.

Modifié par uberdowzen, 01 juin 2010 - 03:34 .

[SkullandBonesmember]

uberdowzen wrote...

I think it's idiotic that people say the plot is appalling when, though it isn't as good as ME1's, it's not bad. In fact, I think it's very good.

Way to miss my point completely. Why should I have to go out of my way to make a youtube video to prove my point when I've just posted all my thoughts here?

Some contrived elements? My post points out how the entire plot is essentially superfluous.

Uh huh. 'Cause writers having Shepard and his entire crew leave the Normandy without any explanation is perfectly fine.

[Zulu_DFA]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Uh huh. 'Cause writers having Shepard and his entire crew leave the Normandy without any explanation is perfectly fine.

No, this is the worst plot device of the series so far. But possibly a result of pushing the product early to the release phase. Or producers' demand to make the plot more dramatic, by liquifying Kelly. Actually, the best way to make the crew suffer was to make them defend the perimiter around the Normandy during the "suicide mission", but not dramatic enough. These explanations do not excuse the whole thing, though.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 juin 2010 - 04:25 .

[Christmas Ape]

Sharn01 said...

...they both did a poor job of making players realize how much time was actually lapsing in the game, ME2 was even worse then ME about this.

As Lt. Stirling put it so eloquently, "horsecrap".

1. Stop off down in the cargo hold, have a drink to mark Armistice Day.

2. Cross the length of the galaxy by relay network, stomp Armstrong Nebula.

3. Skip back across the galaxy, cover 4 systems in Hades Gamma.

4. Return to Citadel.

5. Encounter a protest marking Armistice Day.



The SR-1 Normandy was a goddamn time machine compared to the SR-2.

[uberdowzen]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Uh huh. 'Cause writers having Shepard and his entire crew leave the Normandy without any explanation is perfectly fine.

*sigh* No, if you actually read my post you would have seen that that is not what I said. I said that the ME2 plot analysis video had double standards. Right off the bat he says the ME1 had a great plot and leaves it at that, then goes and rips apart ME2's plot saying how ridiculous it is. I'm not saying the plot holes in ME2 are great but, if you read my post on the last page, you'll see that ME1 also has quite a few major plot holes.

[SkullandBonesmember]

uberdowzen wrote...

*sigh* No, if you actually read my post you would have seen that that is not what I said. I said that the ME2 plot analysis video had double standards. Right off the bat he says the ME1 had a great plot and leaves it at that, then goes and rips apart ME2's plot saying how ridiculous it is. I'm not saying the plot holes in ME2 are great but, if you read my post on the last page, you'll see that ME1 also has quite a few major plot holes.

Read it. Because as we've established I hate when others don't read MY posts. Wasn't saying you "said" it, just one of my biggest pet peeves of ME2, and I've got a lot of 'em.

[uberdowzen]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Read it. Because as we've established I hate when others don't read MY posts. Wasn't saying you "said" it, just one of my biggest pet peeves of ME2, and I've got a lot of 'em.

Sorry, I assumed you meant I had said it as you were quoting my post.

[Iakus]

uberdowzen wrote...

I completely agree. ME2 is barely connected to ME1 at all. If you remove all the recurring characters, the continued plot threads, locations and continued struggle against the Reapers they're basically just two games with shooting.

Well the recurring characters were reduced to cameo and walkon roles, we've established exactly two plot threads get advanced.  Locations, well very restricted Citadel access is all that's left in ME 2, and the struggle against the Reapers took up three missions when each squad member got two apiece (recruitment and loyalty). 

Dang, why didn't I see it before?  It's like ME 1 redux

uberdowzen wrote...

Ashley and Kaidan are Alliance soldier's, of course they'll hate Cerberus. Shepherd's been dead, who says he's the same guy underneath? Suddenly changing sides and working for Cerberus seems to back that up. Wrex has more important things to do (either being dead or being a clan leader). Garrus and Tali come. Liara might be coming in DLC (but I admit that doesn't make up for her not coming in the main game) but shes got stuff to do.

Wrex I could see.  His reasons are  ones I would actually have expected from the others to not join you.  Other duties, other missions.  But it's the attitudes,more than the reasons that really bug me.   Liara and the Virmire Survivor's personalities are completely off the wall. 

Who says Shep's the same person?  Well everyone else in the whole frakking galaxy seems convinced he's Shepard, if his email's inbox is any indicatioon.  Even the C-Sec captain whose machines say he's dead. is convinced.  Yet Ashley/Kaiden can't take a few moments to so much as ask some questions.

Liara...there better be a really good explanation for Liara. I'll leave it at that.

uberdowzen wrote...

I think we've taken the Empire Strikes Back analogy a bit too far. I only brought it up to point out that not much actually happens in the movie. There's one revelation, Luke learns some Force stuff and it sets up vaguely what's going to happen in Return of the Jedi.

You can only take movie/game references so far.  My point was that te story from Empire flowed from ANH.  No reset button needed.

uberdowzen wrote...

And ME 2 is about everything but fighting the Reapers.  It's about fighting Blue Suns, Eclipse, Blood Pack, even the geth.  It's about solving family problems, friendships lost, being railroaded into working for Cerberus, and somewhere in there they managed to fit three Collector missions and a couple of Reaper mentions.

But you're building the team to fight the Collectors who are analogous to the Reapers.

Building the team should have ended with Act One.  Act Two and further should have been learning about the Collectors. Who they are, what they're capabilitiees are and how they're connected to the Reapers.  Know your enemy, right?  Instead it gets squashed into a single mission about 2/3 of the way through the game.

uberdowzen wrote...

The option for Shepherd to ask who Cerberus are is just there in case you forgot (or didn't do) the 2 or three side quests in the game that the majority of player probably haven't played for 2 years. Why wouldn't the Citadel let a Cerberus vessel dock? The council are the only people you ask about the Reapers and they're just deluded. They're trying to cover it up and if you tell enough lies, you start to believe them.

If an old friend had just come back from the dead and was now working for an organisation that had performed dispicable experiments, that's pretty much how I would react. Like I said before, you've been dead! Who says your friend is that same person now.

Liara has been changed by her experience. People grow up fast in bad situations. And vaguely knowing the plot of Redemption (no spoilers haven't gotten around to buying it yet) Liara has definetly been is situations which require a lot of growing up.

The comment about Shepard not recognizing Cerberus is in response to the fact that Shepard seems to have conveniently forgotten about all the horrific experiments they have performed.  Even the most defiant responses are halfhearted at best.  You never have an option to even try to find another route.

According to the Council,Cerberus is a terrorist group and  working with Cerberus is treason and a capital offense.  Forgetting the fact that a secret black ops organization has their logo on their ships, I would think they'd keep a bit lower a profile at the Citadel.

But then, they also said "Hey guys, we're Cerberus!" to the Quarian Fleeet as well...

My reaction would be:

"How?" (How is this person alive when I pretty much witnessed this person's death)
"Why?" (Why is this person working for the organization?  Particularly since this person has worked against them in the past.  Maybe, just maybe, there's a logical explanation for this.  Well, no in this game there wasn't  But there could have been)

Is your dead friend the same person?  Well the fact that he just saved half a colony including you is sure a point in said friend's favor.  At least enough to ask a few questons!  Maybe Shepard's not the same person, but the Survivor didn't even try to find out. 

Garrus and Mordin are there.  The fact that Cerberus does not normally recruit turians or salarians indicates something's not normal too. 

The Council is beyond deluded.  Two freelance scientists with a medical scanner figured out what they couldn't.  I wish I could have gotten into the Council Tower and see if any railroad track had been laid down.

If the explanation to Liara's bizzare behavior can only be found in a comic book, I'll be royally angry at both Bioware and EA.  I'm an NOT going to spend extra money to get plot points for a game from a seperate media.  Put it in the game or it didn't happen!

Yes, there are hints that something happened during those two years if you choose the right coonversation path and don't accidentally lock yourself out of it permanently.   But only hints.  And she was an achaeologist, not an information broker, for crying out loud!

Modifié par iakus, 01 juin 2010 - 06:00 .

[Iakus]

[quote]uberdowzen wrote...

It's pretty easy to do epic. Play dramatic music, queue speech about morals, everyone stand heroically. ME2 is such an accomplishment IMO because it manages to convey emotions about characters that even really good films and book have trouble doing. Think of it like this, ME1 is the BSG mini series which is the epic start to the story and ME2 is the subsequent series, dealing with issues on a more personal level.
[/quote]

Easy to do epic, maybe, but ME 1 managed to sustain it.  ME 2 only had bits and pieces of emotion.  half the missions I found myself going "why am I bothering with this?"



[quote]uberdowzen wrote...
[quote]
The Quarian-Geth war and the genophage stories were advanced, but certainly not resolved.  Gathering the races wil probably be a big factor in ME 3, though given 1 Reaper = 1 fleet (more or less), I think there's going to be more to it than gathering a ginormous armada.[/quote]

Definetly. Also, I wasn't expecting any of those plot threads to be resolved, but they're a step closer to completion.
[/quote]

Visiting the quarian fleet was one of the things I was positive would be in this game.  And I was 50/50 on Tuchanka.  I wasn't expecting them to be in what amounted to optional content, though.

[quote]uberdowzen wrote...
[quote]
I can only hope the Cerberus vs Alliance choices play a factor.  I really, really didn't like how ME 2 railroaded you into working for Cerberus with nary a word of complaint.  At least they could have let Shepard twist a little trying to find other allies to work with instead.  A chance to really make a choice between them would be long overdue.[/quote]

All my sources are telling me that this is what the plan is. The main reason I'm OK with the whole Cerberus thing is there's no way they'll force you to "work for the bad guys" in ME3.
[/quote]

"Working for the bad guys" I could be okay with.  Shepard being so okay with it is what I have a problem with.  Honestly, they did not give the players enough options to be confrontational with Cerberus about its past,

[quote]uberdowzen wrote...
[quote]
Still don't see how reducing/refining the inventory system isn't a better option than scrapping it completely. 

And I never had a problem with KOTOR's inventory.  [/quote]

I never had much of a problem with is, as I could just ignore it.
[/quote]

Umm, okay...

[quote]uberdowzen wrote...

I can create much more diverse characters in JE than in ME1. My first character was a brawler, my second was a staff expert, my third was a dual sword wielder with magical abilities. I like JE's system as it allowed you to create diverse sets of characters without being overly complicated. Oblivions system allowed you to create various heroes (my only problem with it was that characters were a bit too jack of all trades). I was fine with the ME2 system as it didn't not offer any of the features of ME1's system.
[/quote]

But in the end, all soldiers end up looking pretty much the same, all infiltrators, adepts, etc.

[quote]uberdowzen wrote...
[quote]

If mountains are kiling the enjoyment of vehicle travel, fix the mountains.  Then people might like vehicle travel more.  Baby.  Bathwater.[/quote]

So what, you drive over endless flat plains to reach objectives?
[/quote]

There's a middle ground between "insurmountable mountain peaks" and "flat plains"    If nothing else, maybe make paths through mountains a little clearer (they did exist)

[quote]uberdowzen wrote...

NOO!!!! The hidden stuff was the worst part. If it just told you where to go at the beginning that would have been fine. As it is, you have to do a sort of zig zag pattern across the planets to find minerals. This is also not mentioning the fact that they don't point out that there are unmarked minerals on UCWs. I was on my 2nd playthrough before I realised.
[/quote]

So, exploring featureless planets is boring, but putting stuff in them is worse?  It doesn't have to be minerals, you kow, just someting to rewqard exploring.



[quote]uberdowzen wrote...[quote]

To each his own, I guess.

Perhaps more interesting persons, creatures, and landmarks should have been added.  I'm not saying planetary exploration was perfect, but it did add an extra layer of interest to the game.  Instead, of improving on it, howerver, out came the chainsaw.[/quote]

They didn't remove it, it just evolved into planet scanning. If they had restricted planet scanning to the worlds with N7 missions (like I assumed they were going to) so that it was just replacing the Mako bits, I would have been fine with that.

[/quote]

If I can't explore the surface of a planet, I'd say they removed it.  Planet scanning is not even close to the same thing.  If planet scanning did in fact replace the Mako, I'd say the people who complained about it got what they deserved, given how "popular" scanning seems to be.  Hello, monkey's paw!

Modifié par iakus, 01 juin 2010 - 05:56 .

[IoCaster]

uberdowzen wrote...

I think it's idiotic that people say the plot is appalling when, though it isn't as good as ME1's, it's not bad. In fact, I think it's very good.

I disagree and reject your contention that "it's very good". Of course, my opinion is much more valid than yours. What don't you understand about that?

uberdowzen wrote...

Way to miss my point completely. Why should I have to go out of my way to make a youtube video to prove my point when I've just posted all my thoughts here?

Obviously, you don't need to do anything. It was merely a suggestion.

uberdowzen wrote...

Some contrived elements? My post points out how the entire plot is essentially superfluous.

Are you referring to this?

uberdowzen wrote...

Why does he not simply go to the Citadel, call the attack and in the ensuing chaos activate the citadel relay?

I'd agree that the question did cross my mind when I played the game. It's certainly possible that Saren could've succeeded without any assistance. It would have been a really short game if BioWare had done that.

Just like ME2 could have ended with the death of Shepard in the first five minutes. They wouldn't have needed to pull that whole ridiculous resurrection nonsense out of their collective ass. A cool opening cinematic with 'splosions and dramatic music. Cue the closing credits and there you go. No muss, no fuss. Truly brilliant and breathtaking game design in the purest sense.

In any case, I guess we can agree that BioWare really sucks at writing a plausible story and/or plot.

Modifié par IoCaster, 01 juin 2010 - 05:59 .

[KitsuneRommel]

P3G4SU5 wrote...

To summarise Shepherd from each of the games:

ME1 - Commander Shepherd: Survived against all odds after... (insert player history here), First human Spectre, Instrumental role in the defense of Eden Prime, Liberator of the colonists of Feros, Defeated Saren and Sovereign, Saviour of the Galaxy.

ME2 - Commander Shepherd: A brick, Lapdog of TIM, subject of much [sexual] innuendo from Harbinger.

SW: ANH - Jedi Skywalker blah blah blah blows up the death star.

SW: ESB - Jedi Skywalker: A trainee, lapdog of Yoda, ends up losing the final battle.

ME3? I hope it doesn't involve 'cute' furry humanoids.

[CroGamer002]

Crimmsonwind wrote...

@ Mesina, also, the SR2 is only too big to enter the lower atmosphere of SOME planets if I remember correctly, not all. It's still a gaping hole that needs fixing, but they could make a weak argument that all the Firewalker missions take place on suitable planets.

EDI says that Normandy can't be landed on high gravity worlds.
Hom much is consider to be high gravity world in G.

[CroGamer002]

P3G4SU5 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

P3G4SU5 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

P3G4SU5 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

Just wanted to chip in with a graphic I found, which granted me a chuckle.
It does somewhat cover my issues with the narrative of ME2 as well.

I can get tutorial( plothole with Wilson) but rest?

Probably referring to the events on Horizon. You find out from TIM that the Collectors went there because they knew Willams/Alenko was there (courtesy of TIM). Yet despite this they don't pick up this person of great interest first, instead they collect a bunch of other colonists. Great prioritising don't you think by such a highly intelligent race...? And this isn't even mentioning the fact that you have a ship in orbit. Why doesn't it bomb the Collector ship? What the heck is it doing up there? Sure, EDI is busy calibrating the turrets, but I don't think Joker needs to have his hand held whilst piloting/shooting. But hang on - we're told the SR-2 has twice the mass of the SR-1 and it's too big to enter low orbit so that makes sense... Oh wait, it's not if you need a pickup at the end of each Firewalker mission...

Then there's blatant trap in the form of the 'disabled Collector ship' and the complete failure of Sheperd's team of blowing it away on sight. I can understand maybe wanting to gather intel on the poorly understood enemy but wouldn't it be  a good idea to be placing explosives as you travel through the ship using your specialists (since its obviously a trap and the objective of the entire game is to STOP THE COLLECTORS). Sheperd is meant to be trained at the highest level of the Alliance military, he's an N7 after all, yet he has no grasp of tactics or contingency whe it comes to venturing into an enemy ship. Right.

At the same time the player could be using your tech experts to record everything you see for the Alliance/Council. Wouldn't these occassions (along with Veetor's footage of Collectors collecting humans on Freedom's Progress) have been ideal oppotunites, gathering proof to get the Alliance mobilised, even if the Council are too blind to help? At least an Alliance evacuation order of the outer colonies could have been made since they are reluctant to commit militarily to the Terminus Systems.

As for the endgame, well it makes absolutely no sense for the Collector's to be making a new Reaper under Harbinger's orders. What can it even do once built? It can't survive a confrontation with the Citadel/Earth fleets so why bother even building it? To save time and have it ready for when the Reapers arrive? The Reapers are ageless, why would the draw attention and risk discovery by building a Reaper when they could just wait until they arrive in force and then take all the humans they want without having to worry about reprisals. Even if they do believe themselves to be safe from attacks beyond the O4 Relay, their ship is at risk every time it ventures out.

1st OK
2nd what explosives?
3rd Alliance controls Council if you don't sav them so I don't think they would move a finger.
4th Maybe they planned to do that once they took control of Citadel but Sovereing failure wasn't in they plan?

2nd: Explosives such as the one used at the game end if you recall (they resemble the grenades from ME1). I'm assuming a ship outfitted for war against the Collectors has explosives somehwere in the armory.
3rd: I'll just copy paste a comment I made elsewhere to explain why the Alliance would be forced to act:
I seem to remeber that you befriend a reporter in ME1 and basically make her career (Emily Wong if memory serves). It would have been nice if the developers had allowed the player to use
one of the news reporters to expose the Collectors through recorded vids
(use your damn omni-tool Shepard) of them and what they are doing to
humans from the colonie (from Veetor's footage on Freedom's Progress, Horizon or even the
interior of the Collector ship/base). The shock and outcry of the
remaining human colonies and Earth would have pressured the Alliance to
act, if not with military presence then with evacuation efforts."
4th: The human Reaper began construction after Soverign's failure in the 2 year period after the intro of ME2. I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. Please explain

2nd they just overload the system and put ONE granade
3rd then why did you mention Alliance?!
4th I said planned not started

This is becoming a ridiculously long explanation...

2- I know they only use one grenade at the end. Why are you even mentioning it? My point was that the same explosives could have been used earlier in game when inside the "disabled" Collector ship (2nd paragraph of my original quote). Instead of this, Shepherd unfortunately forgets all of his N7 tactics training and his mission objective and has a thought process that goes something like this:

"Hey, this seems like an ideal opportunity to stop the collectors, but I'm not going to try this time and commit the entire team to finish the job. I'll just take 2 people and leave the rest in the Normandy, just in case there's ANOTHER place where I can use them later for a grand showdown."
No thoughts were even voiced about destroying the ship by characters in the game at this point, instead the Collector ship was little more than an excuse to go for a stroll with the [anti]climax being the revelation about Prothean-Collector connection.

3- I talked about the Alliance because you said "I don't think they would move a finger" and I disproved that as being unlikely in the circumstances above.

4- You're just highlighting the problem with the building of a Reaper. If you plan something which relies on a stage A being successful (Sovereign's attack according to you) in order for stage B to be successful (the bulding of a Reaper), why would you continue onto stage B if stage A fails?

2nd I don't think they have nuke in Normandy to destroy Collector ship from inside
3rd keep talking yourself that
4th I dunno, maybe plan B was while Reapers fight with joint fleet of all/most species on one side of galaxy Human Reaper goes in back and destroy undefended populated planets that will weaken morale and weaken them

[Darth Drago]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Uh huh. 'Cause writers having Shepard and his entire crew leave the Normandy without any explanation is perfectly fine.

No, this is the worst plot device of the series so far. But possibly a result of pushing the product early to the release phase. Or producers' demand to make the plot more dramatic, by liquifying Kelly. Actually, the best way to make the crew suffer was to make them defend the perimiter around the Normandy during the "suicide mission", but not dramatic enough. These explanations do not excuse the whole thing, though.

-I hated that “lets all go for a shuttle ride” bit. When it happened I knew what was going to happen on my first play through. Its pure laziness on BioWare’s part, nothing more.

I guess it would have taken to much creativity to actually have a mission to go on. I’ve stated this before that it would have been so much better if you actually did get a mission, perhaps from The Illusive Man.

My short version of it:
-TIM tells you he has another lead. You have to rake the shuttle to get to the mission location. You start the mission with your selected squad. About halfway through the mission you jump back to the Normandy for the encounter there doing Jokers little quest. After its done you go back to your mission now getting a message from one of your squad mates at the shuttle about the incident on the Normandy. You now have a choice, to finish the mission (resulting in Renegade points) or leave for the Normandy (resulting in Paragon points) but if you leave you will miss out on some key information and an upgrade.

Of course as an Easter egg I would have “Kilroy was here” painted on the wall in the final room with a large empty safe with the door blown off it. (guess the movie this came from)

iakus wrote...
Wrex I could see. His reasons are ones I would actually have expected from the others to not join you. Other duties, other missions. But it's the attitudes,more than the reasons that really bug me. Liara and the Virmire Survivor's personalities are completely off the wall.

Liara...there better be a really good explanation for Liara. I'll leave it at that.

-Exactly with Wrex. From what I gather he left your little group after you beat the snot out of Sovereign, oops sorry, Saren and his Geth army as the official word claims. Funny how he is the only one really glad to see your alive.

With Liara you get the sense that she changed a lot after Shepard got spaced. I personally don’t mind her character changes that much. At least she has a reason for her choice. She feels she needs to go after the Shadow Broker to rescue a friend and settle a score. Not to mention it is connected to Shepard with the bit about how she got your body. From archaeologist to one of the best info brokers on Illium in less than 2 years however seems a stretch. But hey if they can have thermal clips on a planet with shipwreck survivors that have been lost for 10 or so years… Yea, I’m not buying it either.

But Ashley and Kaiden? I hated that whole conversation. These 2 have been with you since Eden Prime and all of a sudden they cant trust you because you apparently work for the greatest threat to the galaxy, Cerberus. Here I thought the Reapers were the big bad in the games. Funny how a lot of the recruited people you get more or less say they are working for Shepard or to take the fight to the Reapers since the Alliance isn’t doing squat and not working for Cerberus.

[CroGamer002]

Darth Drago wrote...

But Ashley and Kaiden? I hated that whole conversation. These 2 have been with you since Eden Prime and all of a sudden they cant trust you because you apparently work for the greatest threat to the galaxy, Cerberus. Here I thought the Reapers were the big bad in the games. Funny how a lot of the recruited people you get more or less say they are working for Shepard or to take the fight to the Reapers since the Alliance isn’t doing squat and not working for Cerberus.

Not saying thatr I enjoy that conversation( I really wanted Renegade interput with punching them) they do send apology email later( if I'm not only loser who reads emails in ME2) and I can kinda understand them.
I mean they tough you died and 2 years later you show up and "working" for Cerberous. Think about it.

[finnithe]

Mesina2 wrote...


2nd I don't think they have nuke in Normandy to destroy Collector ship from inside
3rd keep talking yourself that
4th I dunno, maybe plan B was while Reapers fight with joint fleet of all/most species on one side of galaxy Human Reaper goes in back and destroy undefended populated planets that will weaken morale and weaken them

Or maybe the Human Reaper was just a proof of concept. We don't really know because unlike ME1, there is no evil overlord cackling as he tells us his plans for humanity. They are merely hinted at during fights with Harbinger. 

The name Harbinger itself has a bit of thinly veiled significance. It means a "sign of things to come". The Human Reaper can be seen as a sign of things to come as well. Shepard's mission is stopping that.

I kind of like how there's no evil mastermind explaining his plans. That concept has always been a bit cliche. They could have easily put it in during the Collector Ship mission though. 

[Darth Drago]

Mesina2 wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

But Ashley and Kaiden? I hated that whole conversation. These 2 have been with you since Eden Prime and all of a sudden they cant trust you because you apparently work for the greatest threat to the galaxy, Cerberus. Here I thought the Reapers were the big bad in the games. Funny how a lot of the recruited people you get more or less say they are working for Shepard or to take the fight to the Reapers since the Alliance isn’t doing squat and not working for Cerberus.

Not saying thatr I enjoy that conversation( I really wanted Renegade interput with punching them) they do send apology email later( if I'm not only loser who reads emails in ME2) and I can kinda understand them.
I mean they tough you died and 2 years later you show up and "working" for Cerberous. Think about it.

-I cant remember if I paid attention to any of those email letters after the first game. But Yea if I recall correctly they rip into you about not contacting them but after trying to explain that you were kind of dead and that Cerberus is the ones who brought you back to continue the mission they still didn’t care. Even with Garrus in your group nothing even changes because obviously Garrus is brainwashed or something apparently.

All I get out of this is that BioWare want you to take a gamble at having an affair with your ME1 love interest since they all but leave you wondering if its over between you and them. The other option is a poorly written brick in the face to sever all your past relations to focus on the mission before your even told that everyone in your group needs to be clear minded and focused.

Like in my above post with my example idea for the “lets go for a shuttle ride” moment I had a better idea for this dialog resolution. Its quite simple and short actually. Instead of them saying after you ask them to join you “your with Cerberus, I’ll never work for them” crap line it could have been replaced with “I cant go with you, as much as I would like to. I have orders of my own to follow and unlike you I‘m still in the Alliance and have a new superior officer to report to. Sorry.” Problem solved.  

[SkullandBonesmember]

Mesina2 wrote...

Not saying thatr I enjoy that conversation( I really wanted Renegade interput with punching them) they do send apology email later( if I'm not only loser who reads emails in ME2) and I can kinda understand them.
I mean they tough you died and 2 years later you show up and "working" for Cerberous. Think about it.

Only if you romanced them. And even still, it's an email. 

[CroGamer002]

Darth Drago wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

But Ashley and Kaiden? I hated that whole conversation. These 2 have been with you since Eden Prime and all of a sudden they cant trust you because you apparently work for the greatest threat to the galaxy, Cerberus. Here I thought the Reapers were the big bad in the games. Funny how a lot of the recruited people you get more or less say they are working for Shepard or to take the fight to the Reapers since the Alliance isn’t doing squat and not working for Cerberus.

Not saying thatr I enjoy that conversation( I really wanted Renegade interput with punching them) they do send apology email later( if I'm not only loser who reads emails in ME2) and I can kinda understand them.
I mean they tough you died and 2 years later you show up and "working" for Cerberous. Think about it.

-I cant remember if I paid attention to any of those email letters after the first game. But Yea if I recall correctly they rip into you about not contacting them but after trying to explain that you were kind of dead and that Cerberus is the ones who brought you back to continue the mission they still didn’t care. Even with Garrus in your group nothing even changes because obviously Garrus is brainwashed or something apparently.

All I get out of this is that BioWare want you to take a gamble at having an affair with your ME1 love interest since they all but leave you wondering if its over between you and them. The other option is a poorly written brick in the face to sever all your past relations to focus on the mission before your even told that everyone in your group needs to be clear minded and focused.

Like in my above post with my example idea for the “lets go for a shuttle ride” moment I had a better idea for this dialog resolution. Its quite simple and short actually. Instead of them saying after you ask them to join you “your with Cerberus, I’ll never work for them” crap line it could have been replaced with “I cant go with you, as much as I would like to. I have orders of my own to follow and unlike you I‘m still in the Alliance and have a new superior officer to report to. Sorry.” Problem solved.  

I can see your point.

[Zulu_DFA]

Darth Drago wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Uh huh. 'Cause writers having Shepard and his entire crew leave the Normandy without any explanation is perfectly fine.

No, this is the worst plot device of the series so far. But possibly a result of pushing the product early to the release phase. Or producers' demand to make the plot more dramatic, by liquifying Kelly. Actually, the best way to make the crew suffer was to make them defend the perimiter around the Normandy during the "suicide mission", but not dramatic enough. These explanations do not excuse the whole thing, though.

-I hated that “lets all go for a shuttle ride” bit. When it happened I knew what was going to happen on my first play through. Its pure laziness on BioWare’s part, nothing more.

I guess it would have taken to much creativity to actually have a mission to go on. I’ve stated this before that it would have been so much better if you actually did get a mission, perhaps from The Illusive Man.

My short version of it:
-TIM tells you he has another lead. You have to rake the shuttle to get to the mission location. You start the mission with your selected squad. About halfway through the mission you jump back to the Normandy for the encounter there doing Jokers little quest. After its done you go back to your mission now getting a message from one of your squad mates at the shuttle about the incident on the Normandy. You now have a choice, to finish the mission (resulting in Renegade points) or leave for the Normandy (resulting in Paragon points) but if you leave you will miss out on some key information and an upgrade.

Of course as an Easter egg I would have “Kilroy was here” painted on the wall in the final room with a large empty safe with the door blown off it. (guess the movie this came from)

I give up.


BTW, nice idea about accomplish the mission / save the crew choice. I'll think about how to incorporate it into my own perfect ME3 plot!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 juin 2010 - 07:47 .