10273 réponses à ce sujet

[tonnactus]

[quote]Mesina2 wrote...

[quote]Darth D

Not saying thatr I enjoy that conversation( I really wanted Renegade interput with punching them) they do send apology email later( if I'm not only loser who reads emails in ME2) and I can kinda understand them.
I mean they tough you died and 2 years later you show up and "working" for Cerberous. Think about it.
[/quote]
You could have garrus with you.Cerberus attack the flotilla and killed a lot of quarians and tali still decide to work for shepardt.But kaidan and ashley not?? Huge crap,like the whole story.

[MEisthebestgameiveeverplayed]

Would anyone here mind extra wait time for ME3 if you could basically choose different plots? Like choosing to work for Cerberus, or working for the Alliance, or becoming a Spectre again?

Modifié par MEisthebestgameiveeverplayed, 01 juin 2010 - 11:04 .

[tonnactus]

Custodire wrote...

I have to agree in some respects. To me, much of Mass Effect 2 felt like episodic content with very little relation to the storyline, I didn't quite understand the human reaper and I wish Shepherd had thought a little more on his Prothean visions and return from the grave.

That said, I did like coming back from the grave- even if I'm not sure why they needed Shepherd, since they didn't even make use of her/ his Prothean powerz or Spectre status.

Like smudboy pointed out and he was right: Shepardt was not needed for the plot. Its idiotic but true in the sequel.

[tonnactus]

Alex_SM wrote...

Actually the thermal clip system allows better fire rate, so it is an advance. 

For low level mercs and their cheap weapons,sure.Not for spectres and cerberus elites.

Modifié par tonnactus, 01 juin 2010 - 11:20 .

[Dudeman315]

Darth Drago wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

P3G4SU5 wrote...

Plot holes/lack of explanations aside, what did people think about the switch to thermal clip weaponry? Apparently the switch to a clip system is thanks to an advancement in weaponry from studying Geth weaponry, but it means you have a limited number of shots and your rate of fire is interrupted with constant reloading. Originally a good heat sink could allow infinite firing. How is the thermal clip system an advancement in technology?

I can appreciate the need to include some kind of ammo system because the concept in ME1 meant that guns should have eventually run out of ammo. Couldn't this have been tacked onto the existing ME1 thermal system so that overheating is still the main factor in combat, but in additon to this the metal clip from which bullets are shaved off has to be replaced occasionally with a new one?

Actually the thermal clip system allows better fire rate, so it is an advance. 

From the ME1 Codex
“The ammo magazine is a simple block of metal. The gun's internal computer calculates the mass needed to reach the target based on distance, gravity, and atmospheric pressure, then shears off an appropriate sized slug from the block. A single block can supply thousands of rounds, making ammo a non-issue during any engagement.”

Thermal Clip Codex
“It was long thought that personal weapons had plateaued in performance, but the geth proved all theories wrong. Mathematically reviewing their combat logs, the geth found that in an age of kinetic barriers, the weapon with the most rounds down-range the fastest wins. Combatants were forced to deliberately shoot slower to manage waste heat or pause as their weapons vented.

To eliminate this inefficiency, the geth adopted detachable heat sinks known as thermal clips. While organic arms manufacturers were initially doubtful this would produce a net gain, a well-trained soldier can eject and swap thermal clips in under a second. Faced with superior enemy firepower, organic armies soon followed the geth's lead and today's battlefields are littered with these thermal clips.”

So lets see what would you choose..

-That I can choose a weapon that with a single ammo block can shoot thousands of rounds regardless of weapon type I choose.
-That this weapon will only overheat to an unusable point under normal usage if I shoot it like an untrained soldier or action movie style by holding the trigger down instead of controlled bursts.
-That when it does overheat that it will only take a few seconds (about 10) for it to be usable again and that any secondary back up weapon can still be used and swapped out as fast as changing a thermal clip.
-I can also if needed, carry at least 8 of these ammo blocks on me with ease to be used in any weapon that may need reloading.
-That with a simple mod to the weapon I can change ammo types for effective use against any enemy I may encounter. I can also use simple mods to change the performance of each of my weapons I may carry to suit my own needs.

Or:

-I choose a weapon that has very limited ammo capacity and that the new thermal clip system really has no effect on overheating. (that element has been removed from the game)
-That if I run out of ammo in a firefight that I’ll be forced to put myself at risk to rummage the area to find new clips.
-These “thermal clips” also have a 1 to 1 ratio when fired so in such they are just fancy named ammo. They are not interchangeable between all my weapons I may carry since they apparently automatically modify themselves to fill the ammo capacity of each weapon.
-I can not carry more thermal clips than what my weapons maximum capacity can hold and even if I could, that would require me to carry dozens of these “D” battery sized clips on me.
-That even though I, as a well trained soldier can swap out a clip in seconds it doesn’t change the fact that I now have to conserve ammo and make sure every shot counts defeating the whole idea of increased rate of fire.
-That as I use this new technology my enemies do not, they will not run out of ammo even in the longest of firefights.
-That I have to rely on squad mate “powers” to use different ammo mods to effectively fight against any enemies I may encounter.

Actually it said under a (1) second to reload so there shouldn't have been a reload animation in the game!

2. Shepard is a symbol. Tell me, do we know of anyone as important as
Shepard in the humanity's short history in the galactic community? No,
and the point of recruiting Shepard was being able to recruit all these
specialists in the first place.

Right but Shepard almost never gets to use this symbol status with HUMANITY.  It's like every race gives shepard respect for her/his accomplishments except humanity and the galactic council.  It's kinda wierd actually now that I think about it.

Modifié par Dudeman315, 01 juin 2010 - 11:31 .

[Darth Drago]

Mesina2 wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

P3G4SU5 wrote...

Plot holes/lack of explanations aside, what did people think about the switch to thermal clip weaponry? Apparently the switch to a clip system is thanks to an advancement in weaponry from studying Geth weaponry, but it means you have a limited number of shots and your rate of fire is interrupted with constant reloading. Originally a good heat sink could allow infinite firing. How is the thermal clip system an advancement in technology?

I can appreciate the need to include some kind of ammo system because the concept in ME1 meant that guns should have eventually run out of ammo. Couldn't this have been tacked onto the existing ME1 thermal system so that overheating is still the main factor in combat, but in additon to this the metal clip from which bullets are shaved off has to be replaced occasionally with a new one?

Actually the thermal clip system allows better fire rate, so it is an advance. 

From the ME1 Codex
“The ammo magazine is a simple block of metal. The gun's internal computer calculates the mass needed to reach the target based on distance, gravity, and atmospheric pressure, then shears off an appropriate sized slug from the block. A single block can supply thousands of rounds, making ammo a non-issue during any engagement.”

Thermal Clip Codex
“It was long thought that personal weapons had plateaued in performance, but the geth proved all theories wrong. Mathematically reviewing their combat logs, the geth found that in an age of kinetic barriers, the weapon with the most rounds down-range the fastest wins. Combatants were forced to deliberately shoot slower to manage waste heat or pause as their weapons vented.

To eliminate this inefficiency, the geth adopted detachable heat sinks known as thermal clips. While organic arms manufacturers were initially doubtful this would produce a net gain, a well-trained soldier can eject and swap thermal clips in under a second. Faced with superior enemy firepower, organic armies soon followed the geth's lead and today's battlefields are littered with these thermal clips.”

So lets see what would you choose..

-That I can choose a weapon that with a single ammo block can shoot thousands of rounds regardless of weapon type I choose.
-That this weapon will only overheat to an unusable point under normal usage if I shoot it like an untrained soldier or action movie style by holding the trigger down instead of controlled bursts.
-That when it does overheat that it will only take a few seconds (about 10) for it to be usable again and that any secondary back up weapon can still be used and swapped out as fast as changing a thermal clip.
-I can also if needed, carry at least 8 of these ammo blocks on me with ease to be used in any weapon that may need reloading.
-That with a simple mod to the weapon I can change ammo types for effective use against any enemy I may encounter. I can also use simple mods to change the performance of each of my weapons I may carry to suit my own needs.

Or:

-I choose a weapon that has very limited ammo capacity and that the new thermal clip system really has no effect on overheating. (that element has been removed from the game)
-That if I run out of ammo in a firefight that I’ll be forced to put myself at risk to rummage the area to find new clips.
-These “thermal clips” also have a 1 to 1 ratio when fired so in such they are just fancy named ammo. They are not interchangeable between all my weapons I may carry since they apparently automatically modify themselves to fill the ammo capacity of each weapon.
-I can not carry more thermal clips than what my weapons maximum capacity can hold and even if I could, that would require me to carry dozens of these “D” battery sized clips on me.
-That even though I, as a well trained soldier can swap out a clip in seconds it doesn’t change the fact that I now have to conserve ammo and make sure every shot counts defeating the whole idea of increased rate of fire.
-That as I use this new technology my enemies do not, they will not run out of ammo even in the longest of firefights.
-That I have to rely on squad mate “powers” to use different ammo mods to effectively fight against any enemies I may encounter.

Or just say screw Codex and say it's just diffrent game mechanic.

-You mean I should accept that as an explanation that it’s just a game mechanic? That the basic lore of the game can be changed just to suit the developers need to add some lame ammo system. Not a chance.

Its just like the way George Lucas screwed up the Force from going “as an energy field created by all living things, that surrounds and penetrates living beings and binds the galaxy together.” to midi-chlorians. Or if Peter Parker gets injected with a some genetic goo instead of getting bit by a radioactive spider to become Spider Man in the reboot of the film or a new comic series.

[moochiphur]

ME2 proves...in my opinion that...unlike the matrix it was written as a trilogy, and i think as the middle one they've done really well. I agree with you though, it isn't perfect, but, other than the little side missions (more please) i think they've done really really well...its very shiney! Thank GOODNESS there's no MAKO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i can't tell you how much that MADE MY CHRISTMAS!!!!

[tonnactus]

Mesina2 wrote...

Except for story, do you guys have any problem with gameplay? You know most importing thing in video games?!

Problems with gameplay?
Yes,but not with the difficulty.

There was a lot of talk about it actually.Its boring.

A paper,scissors,rock system to remove "protections".

The system itself doesnt make sense.Armor and shields stop biotics?

Just imagine a mage has to damage the armor of an opponent with an dagger(smg) before he/she could actually use some spells.
Sounds silly.Yes,it is, but is part of the gameplay in higher difficulties in Mass Effect 2.

I dont even know why they introduce this junk in like it seems short time.The E3 videos dont even have the "protection system".

[tonnactus]

[quote]Lumikki wrote...

[quote]chzr wrote...


tbh one outcome is only because me2 made every "choice that matters in me2" totally irrelevant (or they didnt bother at all and just sent u mail) and gave you that railroad story.

[/quote]

Yes,its not railroading.After becoming a spectre shepardt oviously could do what he want and as many sidemission he want.That is freedom.

[AlanC9]

Even when you don't get the mods right away, finally getting them right feels rewarding. And what better reward can there be after beating the game numerous times?

If you like playing the game, that's the reward. And if you don't, you're a fool.

[finnithe]

Darth Drago wrote...

-You mean I should accept that as an explanation that it’s just a game mechanic? That the basic lore of the game can be changed just to suit the developers need to add some lame ammo system. Not a chance.

Its just like the way George Lucas screwed up the Force from going “as an energy field created by all living things, that surrounds and penetrates living beings and binds the galaxy together.” to midi-chlorians. Or if Peter Parker gets injected with a some genetic goo instead of getting bit by a radioactive spider to become Spider Man in the reboot of the film or a new comic series.

You don't think that analogy is kind of a stretch? Bioware didn't not exactly change the concept on which the series was based on. Changing how guns work in the universe is hardly comparable to the origin story of the main character, or the Force for that matter. It was a small liberty that they took with the universe that ended up improving the gameplay. And it's not like it closes of the chance of a hybrid system being developed for ME3 either. 

Modifié par finnithe, 02 juin 2010 - 01:10 .

[Lumikki]

tonnactus wrote...

Custodire wrote...

I have to agree in some respects. To me, much of Mass Effect 2 felt like episodic content with very little relation to the storyline, I didn't quite understand the human reaper and I wish Shepherd had thought a little more on his Prothean visions and return from the grave.

That said, I did like coming back from the grave- even if I'm not sure why they needed Shepherd, since they didn't even make use of her/ his Prothean powerz or Spectre status.

Like smudboy pointed out and he was right: Shepardt was not needed for the plot. Its idiotic but true in the sequel.

If You don't know why Shepard was choosen, maybe you should play the game intro again, it was told first, when TIM and Miranda talked.

[SithLordExarKun]

IoCaster wrote...



Are you seriously so narcissistic and impressed with your own powers of persuasion that you believe that you can convince people to see things as you do?

^ This is a question i would love to ask every single one of the constant whiners in this thread.

[smudboy]

Lumikki wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Custodire wrote...

I have to agree in some respects. To me, much of Mass Effect 2 felt like episodic content with very little relation to the storyline, I didn't quite understand the human reaper and I wish Shepherd had thought a little more on his Prothean visions and return from the grave.

That said, I did like coming back from the grave- even if I'm not sure why they needed Shepherd, since they didn't even make use of her/ his Prothean powerz or Spectre status.

Like smudboy pointed out and he was right: Shepardt was not needed for the plot. Its idiotic but true in the sequel.

If You don't know why Shepard was choosen, maybe you should play the game intro again, it was told first, when TIM and Miranda talked.

While beating a dead horse, the various reasons why Shepard was chosen do not make Shepard integral to the plot, unless those reasons are proven in the plot.  The reasons (within relative and limited scope, are fine, all before Shepard becomes a corpse, and only before 2 years go by), grant Shepard's existence within the story.  I've argued this ad nauseum in comparison to ME1 (regarding Chosen Status and Plot Integrity.)

Take Shepard out after they wake up from their resurrection/coma and the plot would've been satisfied.

The fact that none of Shepard's qualities/reasons why Cerberus brought Shepard back are even used in the story is what makes it tellingly absurd.  It's as if some other writer was asked to write a story about a hero's resurrection, a whole slew of writers for the side characters, and yet another for the last ten minutes.

In reality, it's because marketing thought it'd be great to have some E3 teasers video about Shepard dying, and the poor writing/development staff had to shimmy a resurrection/tutorial level in.  Not to say it's impossible to write a good story about hero resurrection and working for the enemy.  It's rather difficult.  Putting it diplomatically, ME2's is not a good example of one.

[AlanC9]

IoCaster wrote...
Being killed and resurrected in some ridiculously contrived and stupid plot so that I can be forced to bend over for TIM/Cerberus is a monumental crapfest. 

If you enjoyed that obnoxiously idiotic story progression then I'm truly happy for you. Although it begs the question, what the hell are you doing in a thread dedicated to discussing player disappointment with ME2?

Are you seriously so narcissistic and impressed with your own powers of persuasion that you believe that you can convince people to see things as you do? Is it actually possible that you believe we're all too stupid to recognize what a wonderful story and plot ME2 have and that you'll set us straight?

I gotta give you props for the "narcissistic" line. You're right; trying to convince someone that he should like something that he doesn't like is the height of arrogance.

But at the same time, having do deal with situations you don't like at all is kind of standard in the hero business. Traditionally, heroes don't get that many choices. That they can live with, anyway.

[IoCaster]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

IoCaster wrote...



Are you seriously so narcissistic and impressed with your own powers of persuasion that you believe that you can convince people to see things as you do?

^ This is a question i would love to ask every single one of the constant whiners in this thread.

Well, in the first place this is a forum for fans to discuss what they like or don't like about ME and DA:O. It's a very simple concept. People that dislike various aspects of the game are just as entitled to post here as anyone else. If you're perfectly satisfied with the game then what purpose does it serve to come into a thread like this and whine about the so-called whiners? Are you personally offended that someone else doesn't care for the game to the same extent that you do? What's the point?

[bjdbwea]

smudboy wrote...

The fact that none of Shepard's qualities/reasons why Cerberus brought Shepard back are even used in the story is what makes it tellingly absurd.  It's as if some other writer was asked to write a story about a hero's resurrection, a whole slew of writers for the side characters, and yet another for the last ten minutes.

Right, and that would explain a few things. For example, apart from most loyalty missions, in my opinion the writing for the companions is mediocre and shallow. The big exception though is Mordin. First, it is a fact that he has more to say than anyone else. Second, he's the only one where I feel that the quality of the writing is up to the standards I would have expected from BioWare and the successor to ME 1. Why is he so different, I still wonder. Do we actually know who wrote his part?

smudboy wrote...

In reality, it's because marketing thought it'd be great to have some E3 teasers video about Shepard dying, and the poor writing/development staff had to shimmy a resurrection/tutorial level in.  Not to say it's impossible to write a good story about hero resurrection and working for the enemy.

It would be very possible, and it could be a very interesting topic, not in the least from Shepard's perspective. But like I said before, he doesn't seem to care about anything. Not even his own death and resurrection. So it goes nowhere and is just a simple plot device, an explanation why he forgot everything and can start again at level 1 (and be forced to work for Cerberus now). And that's just lame.

To me it's obvious that the whole development team was forced to work under serious time constraints. Which makes some decisions even less understandable. For example, if you need to save time, you don't introduce such complicated topics, or so many new characters, or new enemies in the first place. The game would have been much better if they relied more on the foundations they had from ME 1. And it would have sped up development too.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 02 juin 2010 - 04:05 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

smudboy wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Custodire wrote...

I have to agree in some respects. To me, much of Mass Effect 2 felt like episodic content with very little relation to the storyline, I didn't quite understand the human reaper and I wish Shepherd had thought a little more on his Prothean visions and return from the grave.

That said, I did like coming back from the grave- even if I'm not sure why they needed Shepherd, since they didn't even make use of her/ his Prothean powerz or Spectre status.

Like smudboy pointed out and he was right: Shepardt was not needed for the plot. Its idiotic but true in the sequel.

If You don't know why Shepard was choosen, maybe you should play the game intro again, it was told first, when TIM and Miranda talked.

While beating a dead horse, the various reasons why Shepard was chosen do not make Shepard integral to the plot, unless those reasons are proven in the plot.  The reasons (within relative and limited scope, are fine, all before Shepard becomes a corpse, and only before 2 years go by), grant Shepard's existence within the story.  I've argued this ad nauseum in comparison to ME1 (regarding Chosen Status and Plot Integrity.)

Take Shepard out after they wake up from their resurrection/coma and the plot would've been satisfied.

The fact that none of Shepard's qualities/reasons why Cerberus brought Shepard back are even used in the story is what makes it tellingly absurd.  It's as if some other writer was asked to write a story about a hero's resurrection, a whole slew of writers for the side characters, and yet another for the last ten minutes.

In reality, it's because marketing thought it'd be great to have some E3 teasers video about Shepard dying, and the poor writing/development staff had to shimmy a resurrection/tutorial level in.  Not to say it's impossible to write a good story about hero resurrection and working for the enemy.  It's rather difficult.  Putting it diplomatically, ME2's is not a good example of one.

In short: The fight against the Collectors would not happen if Shepard wasn't awakened. Before Shepard was brought back, Cerberus didn't make an actual move. Shepard together with Miranda and Jacob recover proof of the abductions being done by the Collectors, what triggers the Suicide Mission:
Two years after Commander Shepard repelled invading Reapers bent on the destruction of organic life, a mysterious new enemy has emerged. On the fringes of known space, something is silently abducting entire human colonies. Now Shepard must work with Cerberus, a ruthless organization devoted to human survival at any cost, to stop the most terrifying threat mankind has ever faced.
To even attempt this perilous mission, Shepard must assemble the galaxy's most elite team and command the most powerful ship ever built. Even then, they say it would be suicide. Commander Shepard intends to
prove them wrong.

— Official
Plot Summary
"The fact that none of Shepard's qualities/reasons why Cerberus brought Shepard back are even used in the story is what makes it tellingly absurd." One of his qualities told by Illusive Man is his charisma. That is shown in the game at even gathering effed'up people like Jack, Samara or Grunt, the player as Shepard can manage to gather their trust.

k thx bai.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 02 juin 2010 - 04:06 .

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

But at the same time, having do deal with situations you don't like at all is kind of standard in the hero business. Traditionally, heroes don't get that many choices. That they can live with, anyway.

That's just it, there's little to show that Shepard is in an unlikable situation.  Shep's is way too accepting of is or her predicament.

Shepard:  "Why should I work for your evil terrorist organization?"

TIM:  "The plot says so"

Shepard:  "Oh, okay then.  Where do we go next"."

No not those exact words, but that's what it amounts to.  Blind acceptance. People playing ME  2 for the first time would probably think Cerberus was simply a "morally grey"  vigilante organization.  Shep makes no agonizing decisions.  No  looking for other allies.  Not even a  "We're on the same side, for now.  But when this is over..." 

Are we absolutely certain Miranda didn't put a chip in Shep's brain?

[Iakus]

bjdbwea wrote...

smudboy wrote...

The fact that none of Shepard's qualities/reasons why Cerberus brought Shepard back are even used in the story is what makes it tellingly absurd.  It's as if some other writer was asked to write a story about a hero's resurrection, a whole slew of writers for the side characters, and yet another for the last ten minutes.

Right, and that would explain a few things. For example, apart from most loyalty missions, in my opinion the writing for the companions is mediocre and shallow. The big exception though is Mordin. First, it is a fact that he has more to say than anyone else. Second, he's the only one where I feel that the quality of the writing is up to the standards I would have expected from BioWare and the successor to ME 1. Why is he so different, I still wonder. Do we actually know who wrote his part?

I do not know who wrote his charcter, but interestingly, Mordin is the one crewmate you absolutely, positively, no excuses, have to recruit.  I suspect he was created very early in the ME 2 process. 

[IoCaster]

bjdbwea wrote...

smudboy wrote...

The fact that none of Shepard's qualities/reasons why Cerberus brought Shepard back are even used in the story is what makes it tellingly absurd.  It's as if some other writer was asked to write a story about a hero's resurrection, a whole slew of writers for the side characters, and yet another for the last ten minutes.

Right, and that would explain a few things. For example, apart from most loyalty missions, in my opinion the writing for the companions is mediocre and shallow. The big exception though is Mordin. First, it is a fact that he has more to say than anyone else. Second, he's the only one where I feel that the quality of the writing is up to the standards I would have expected from BioWare and the successor to ME 1. Why is he so different, I still wonder. Do we actually know who wrote his part?

I have always assumed that it would be the responsibility of the 'Lead Writer' to ensure that all of the various component parts of the story would meld into a seamless and cohesive whole. From the moment I finished my first run through the game the impression had formed that it was like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle that didn't fit together properly. The plot holes and logical inconsistencies throughout the game made me wonder what the hell had happened.

Why was it so important to have Shepard work for Cerberus? An important enough reason to kill Shepard and then immediately resurrect him/her. I can't wait to find out the answer to this question. If it was something as simple as a gimmick to enable them to give new players a blank slate to work with that would really suck.

[smudboy]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...
"The fact that none of Shepard's qualities/reasons why Cerberus brought Shepard back are even used in the story is what makes it tellingly absurd." One of his qualities told by Illusive Man is his charisma. That is shown in the game at even gathering effed'up people like Jack, Samara or Grunt, the player as Shepard can manage to gather their trust.

k thx bai.

"Sheaprd charisma", or Shepard'scommunication skills, isn't plot vital.  Side characters are collected because TIM says so, and they join Shepard because Shepard asks them to.

Anyone could've talked to those eff'ed up characters and gotten them to: 1) join, 2) be managed, 3) gathered their trust.  The Shepard persona isn't exactly a Human Resource/Used Car Salesman guru.  It's purposely really flat.

If all they needed was someone with charisma...

[javierabegazo]

@smudboy



Just watched all 6 parts of your Plot analysis, I really enjoyed it, just wanted to say Thank you



Was reminiscent of the hour long Review of the Phantom Menace videos that are on youtube. Props for your editing

[IoCaster]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...


"The fact that none of Shepard's qualities/reasons why Cerberus brought Shepard back are even used in the story is what makes it tellingly absurd." One of his qualities told by Illusive Man is his charisma. That is shown in the game at even gathering effed'up people like Jack, Samara or Grunt, the player as Shepard can manage to gather their trust.

k thx bai.

How is this evident in the game?

Tali and Garrus are colleagues from ME and it makes sense that they're willing to join the team.

1. Jacob - Worked for Cerberus before Shepard is brought on the scene. Don't need to recruit.

2. Miranda - Career Cerberus operative and doesn't really trust Shepard initially. Don't need to recruit.

3. Grunt - Tank bred and recently hatched. How would he have any idea who Shepard is?

4. Jack - Doesn't care about Shepard and only joins the team to get access to Cerberus files.

5. Mordin - A retired Salarian operative that joins the team because Shepard makes a deal to kill some Vorcha and cure the plague.

6. Samara - Joins the team because Shepard gets her the information about Morinth.

7. Thane - He's the only one that I can recall, other than Miranda or Jacob, that makes any reference to Shepards history and reputation.

8. Zaeed - A hired mercenary.

9. Kasumi - A hired mercenary. She refers to herself as a fan, so a case can be made that she was personally influenced by Shepards 'charisma'.

10. Legion - Not sure what to make of a creepy Geth stalker and what might possibly motivate it.

I'm not sure how 'charisma' and 'natural leadership ability' actually plays such a large role in recruiting the majority of these characters. If you don't do their loyalty missions, all of that 'charisma' and 'leadership ability' doesn't seem to matter anyway.