10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecael]

Arwyl wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Yes, ME1 had 2 mission more in main plot. Wow, that's huge difference. 5 vs 7.

Well, that is actually "pretty huge difference". It amounts to 30%.

The amount of time spent in main plot missions and recruiting (no loyalties) in Mass Effect 2 is more than the amount of time spent in main plot missions and recruiting in Mass Effect 1.

[Orchomene]

ME1 had 7 main mission and 1 important recruit related missions.

ME2 had 5 main mission and 1 important recruit related missions.

Well, this is not only the number of missions but also the length and the quality. Horizon, Collector Ship and IFF are more or less the same mission with very few elements that are not fights. On the other end, Noveria, Feros and Virmire have a lot more elements.

[Lumikki]

Arwyl wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Yes, ME1 had 2 mission more in main plot. Wow, that's huge difference. 5 vs 7.

Well, that is actually "pretty huge difference". It amounts to 30%.

I agree, but compare it to total about 70 missions, then mm..

I hope they make ME3 so that main missions has bigger part of total missions.

Orchomene wrote...

ME1 had 7 main mission and 1 important recruit related missions.
ME2 had 5 main mission and 1 important recruit related missions.

Well, this is not only the number of missions but also the length and the quality. Horizon, Collector Ship and IFF are more or less the same mission with very few elements that are not fights. On the other end, Noveria, Feros and Virmire have a lot more elements.

Now if we compare main missions. As my opionion.

Horizons was good mission, because you did actually fight agaist main enemy, collectors.
Collector ship, it was nice, but it was more about fighting, but the trap part was fun.
IFF was different, it wasn't really about collectors so much, more like husks and getting info.
End mission was excelent, maybe even better than ME1's end mission, but end boss was dumm.

Feros was really good mission, but only the end was main story related.
Noveria was long mission and had to wonder how it was even main story related?
Virmine was excelent mission, I liked it alot and very story related.
Ilos was also story related and excelent work, some intersting knowledge come from there.
ME1 end mission was good, but the end boss fight was dumm.

That's just my opinion.

Modifié par Lumikki, 03 juin 2010 - 01:58 .

[CroGamer002]

Arwyl wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Yes, ME1 had 2 mission more in main plot. Wow, that's huge difference. 5 vs 7.

Well, that is actually "pretty huge difference". It amounts to 30%.

And for some reason ME2 takes much longer to pass then ME1.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Mesina2 wrote...

And for some reason ME2 takes much longer to pass then ME1.

Like I said. Combat missions are longer in ME2. More emphasis on it. But that's not a bad thing.

[Jebel Krong]

tonnactus wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...


1. it's called pacing.

I dont need pacing.A reason why I play rpgs because they are the games that gives you a lot of freedom how you play them.True with ovlivion and the first Mass Effect game.
I dont need a smoking idiot that commands me to go somewhere.The story could be always written in a way that pacing isnt needed. Colonies could be big.Enemies need some time to organize their attacks so the player doesnt come to late.
If this isnt written in the game, players could use their imagination.

If i want pacing i play shooters.

pacing helps with a strong narrative - something you also claim me2 lacks. so which is it that you want? btw you can still play most of me2 like that - you can wander the hub-worlds as much as you like...

[Ecael]

Orchomene wrote...

ME1 had 7 main mission and 1 important recruit related missions.
ME2 had 5 main mission and 1 important recruit related missions.

Well, this is not only the number of missions but also the length and the quality. Horizon, Collector Ship and IFF are more or less the same mission with very few elements that are not fights. On the other end, Noveria, Feros and Virmire have a lot more elements.

That's because Noveria, Feros and Virmire are the other three hub worlds. All three also have liberal use of the Mako, which is nothing but 'splosions, just like everything else in both games.

The recruitment and loyalty missions are connected to each of the four hub worlds in Mass Effect 2. As I posted before:

Using equivalent minutes worth of goodyatheart's and padawanmage71's crossover ME1 and ME2 playthrough videos...

http://www.youtube.c...er/goodyatheart
http://www.youtube.c...r/padawanmage71

49 - Eden Prime
44 - Therum (Liara)
60.5 - Virmire
40 - Ilos
31 - Final Mission (Cit-Saren)

Total: 224.5 minutes

28 - Lazarus
24.5 - Freedom's Progress
44 - Horizon
38 - Derelict Ship
42 - IFF/Normandy
66.5 - Final Mission

Total: 243 minutes

Those missions combined are approximately the same amount of minutes. With the leftover main missions we have:

Feros (without side missions), Noveria (without side missions)

vs.

8 recruitment missions and 12 loyalty missions (without side missions at hub worlds)

Feros/Noveria vs. 20 recruitment/loyalty missions.

Modifié par Ecael, 03 juin 2010 - 01:35 .

[Jebel Krong]

Orchomene wrote...

ME1 had 7 main mission and 1 important recruit related missions.
ME2 had 5 main mission and 1 important recruit related missions.

Well, this is not only the number of missions but also the length and the quality. Horizon, Collector Ship and IFF are more or less the same mission with very few elements that are not fights. On the other end, Noveria, Feros and Virmire have a lot more elements.

really? 'cause i could have sworn i spent most of noveria fighting geth and then rachni, feros and virmire fighting geth...

arguments like yours are ridiculous because structurally the games are very similar.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 03 juin 2010 - 01:37 .

[Orchomene]

The amount of time spent in main plot missions and recruiting (no loyalties) in Mass Effect 2 is more than the amount of time spent in main plot missions and recruiting in Mass Effect 1.

Recruiting missions are all boring and consist all in some mercenary fights with a few exceptions. All in all, I've had at least the double amount of time of game that I have appreciated in ME versus ME2.
Just look at the loyalty missions :

• Archangel, just fight three waves of mercenaries and a big boss with a small introduction for looting in buildings and discussing with mercenaries that just say "f*** off".
• Tali : kill some geths, then kill some geths, then in the end, kill a geth boss.
• Assassin : kill some eclipse then smal discussion.
• Convict : kill some blue suns.
• Justicar : some investigation (waoh !) then some killing of eclipse.
• Professor : kill some blood pack
• Warlord : kill some blue suns

As you can see, there is not much of interest if you find most of the fights boring.

[Ecael]

Orchomene wrote...

The amount of time spent in main plot missions and recruiting (no loyalties) in Mass Effect 2 is more than the amount of time spent in main plot missions and recruiting in Mass Effect 1.

Recruiting missions are all boring and consist all in some mercenary fights with a few exceptions. All in all, I've had at least the double amount of time of game that I have appreciated in ME versus ME2.
Just look at the loyalty missions :

• Archangel, just fight three waves of mercenaries and a big boss with a small introduction for looting in buildings and discussing with mercenaries that just say "f*** off".
• Tali : kill some geths, then kill some geths, then in the end, kill a geth boss.
• Assassin : kill some eclipse then smal discussion.
• Convict : kill some blue suns.
• Justicar : some investigation (waoh !) then some killing of eclipse.
• Professor : kill some blood pack
• Warlord : kill some blue suns

As you can see, there is not much of interest if you find most of the fights boring.

Mass Effect 1: Kill some stuff
Mass Effect 2: Kill some stuff

Saying you "appreciated" more of the time in Mass Effect 1 is subjective, at best.

The numbers I posted above your post are objective.

[Iakus]

Orchomene wrote...

The amount of time spent in main plot missions and recruiting (no loyalties) in Mass Effect 2 is more than the amount of time spent in main plot missions and recruiting in Mass Effect 1.

Recruiting missions are all boring and consist all in some mercenary fights with a few exceptions. All in all, I've had at least the double amount of time of game that I have appreciated in ME versus ME2.
Just look at the loyalty missions :

• Archangel, just fight three waves of mercenaries and a big boss with a small introduction for looting in buildings and discussing with mercenaries that just say "f*** off".
• Tali : kill some geths, then kill some geths, then in the end, kill a geth boss.
• Assassin : kill some eclipse then smal discussion.
• Convict : kill some blue suns.
• Justicar : some investigation (waoh !) then some killing of eclipse.
• Professor : kill some blood pack
  
• Warlord : kill some blue suns

As you can see, there is not much of interest if you find most of the fights boring.

[*]And in all that, not a COllector to be found

[bjdbwea]

Agreed. Those numbers are a bit of a straw man argument. What matters is not the amount of missions in which you can pew-pew. For example, while it may be true that ME 1 and ME 2 have almost the same amount of main story missions, the missions in ME 1 are much more interesting, diverse, better introduced and presented, and less linear. With cutscenes involving many different actors, interaction with NPCs during the missions, as well as small and large decicions. Whereas in ME 2, several missions begin with a bland chat between just TIM and Shepard, and then all you have to do is fight your way through waves of enemies, and that's it.

[Arwyl]

Jebel Krong wrote...

kold213 wrote...
The Citadel is incredibly dissappointing, the Wards are tiny and cramped and don't even get me stared on the Presidium (ONE ROOM!)

smaller maybe but no loading pauses and a much higher level of detail throughout, i can certainly live with that. you only go to the presidium for one reason/conversation, so yeah whilst it's maybe disappointing not to traipse round there again, it really would serve no purpose other than reminiscing.

Yeah, reminiscing and perhaps, you know, role-playing.

[Jebel Krong]

Orchomene wrote...

The amount of time spent in main plot missions and recruiting (no loyalties) in Mass Effect 2 is more than the amount of time spent in main plot missions and recruiting in Mass Effect 1.

Recruiting missions are all boring and consist all in some mercenary fights with a few exceptions. All in all, I've had at least the double amount of time of game that I have appreciated in ME versus ME2.
Just look at the loyalty missions :

• Archangel, just fight three waves of mercenaries and a big boss with a small introduction for looting in buildings and discussing with mercenaries that just say "f*** off".
• Tali : kill some geths, then kill some geths, then in the end, kill a geth boss.
• Assassin : kill some eclipse then smal discussion.
• Convict : kill some blue suns.
• Justicar : some investigation (waoh !) then some killing of eclipse.
• Professor : kill some blood pack
• Warlord : kill some blue suns

As you can see, there is not much of interest if you find most of the fights boring.

you can break down me1 in the same way. and you may find the recruitment missions boring, but many other people don't so that is not "proof" of anything other than your own bias.

[Ecael]

bjdbwea wrote...

Agreed. Those numbers are a bit of a straw man argument. What matters is not the amount of missions in which you can pew-pew. For example, while it may be true that ME 1 and ME 2 have almost the same amount of main story missions, the missions in ME 1 are much more interesting, diverse, better introduced and presented, and less linear. With cutscenes involving many different actors, interaction with NPCs during the missions, as well as small and large decicions. Whereas in ME 2, several missions begin with a bland chat between just TIM and Shepard, and then all you have to do is fight your way through waves of enemies, and that's it.

That's very opinionated, especially since the missions in ME1 start at hub worlds rather than use them as intermediates.

Mass Effect 2 also has approximately 13,000 more lines than Mass Effect 1, and clearly many more actors and interactions before, during and after each mission.

[Ecael]

Arwyl wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

kold213 wrote...
The Citadel is incredibly dissappointing, the Wards are tiny and cramped and don't even get me stared on the Presidium (ONE ROOM!)

smaller maybe but no loading pauses and a much higher level of detail throughout, i can certainly live with that. you only go to the presidium for one reason/conversation, so yeah whilst it's maybe disappointing not to traipse round there again, it really would serve no purpose other than reminiscing.

Yeah, reminiscing and perhaps, you know, role-playing.

You roleplay as the Citadel?

[Jebel Krong]

Arwyl wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

kold213 wrote...
The Citadel is incredibly dissappointing, the Wards are tiny and cramped and don't even get me stared on the Presidium (ONE ROOM!)

smaller maybe but no loading pauses and a much higher level of detail throughout, i can certainly live with that. you only go to the presidium for one reason/conversation, so yeah whilst it's maybe disappointing not to traipse round there again, it really would serve no purpose other than reminiscing.

Yeah, reminiscing and perhaps, you know, role-playing.

role-playing what? if there's no reason to be on the presidium, why would you go there? especially when that disc-space can be used for other, more exciting locations where you can actually, y'know "role-play".

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 03 juin 2010 - 01:50 .

[Arwyl]

@ SkullandBonesmember

Do I sense a subtle tinge of cynicism in your posts of late?

[Jebel Krong]

bjdbwea wrote...

Agreed. Those numbers are a bit of a straw man argument. What matters is not the amount of missions in which you can pew-pew. For example, while it may be true that ME 1 and ME 2 have almost the same amount of main story missions, the missions in ME 1 are much more interesting, diverse, better introduced and presented, and less linear. With cutscenes involving many different actors, interaction with NPCs during the missions, as well as small and large decicions. Whereas in ME 2, several missions begin with a bland chat between just TIM and Shepard, and then all you have to do is fight your way through waves of enemies, and that's it.

oh, so now it's proven that mass effect 2 has more content, that's not important anymore? i see... and then your personal opinions/bias are presented as yet more evidence of me1's "superiority." because, actually, me2's missions are much more interesting, diverse, better introduced and presented, similarly linear and the rest. the refinements to mo-cap and characterisation are quite clear to see, as well as the obvious graphical and lighting ones, too.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 03 juin 2010 - 01:54 .

[CroGamer002]

Orchomene wrote...

The amount of time spent in main plot missions and recruiting (no loyalties) in Mass Effect 2 is more than the amount of time spent in main plot missions and recruiting in Mass Effect 1.

Recruiting missions are all boring and consist all in some mercenary fights with a few exceptions. All in all, I've had at least the double amount of time of game that I have appreciated in ME versus ME2.
Just look at the loyalty missions :

• Archangel, just fight three waves of mercenaries and a big boss with a small introduction for looting in buildings and discussing with mercenaries that just say "f*** off".
• Tali : kill some geths, then kill some geths, then in the end, kill a geth boss.
• Assassin : kill some eclipse then smal discussion.
• Convict : kill some blue suns.
• Justicar : some investigation (waoh !) then some killing of eclipse.
• Professor : kill some blood pack
• Warlord : kill some blue suns

As you can see, there is not much of interest if you find most of the fights boring.

Recruting in ME1:
[*]Ashley: kill some flying drones and few Geth
[*]Wrex: Talk to him( optional)
[*]Garrus: Kill some dudes and talk to him( optional)
[*]Tali: Kill a lot of dudes, talk to fist, kill more dudes
[*]Liara: Kill platoon of Geth with Mako, then on foot more Geth and Geth Armeture

[SkullandBonesmember]

Arwyl wrote...

@ SkullandBonesmember

Do I sense a subtle tinge of cynicism in your posts of late?

Cynical? Not me. :innocent:

[Arwyl]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Arwyl wrote...

Yeah, reminiscing and perhaps, you know, role-playing.

role-playing what? if there's no reason to be on the presidium, why would you go there? especially when that disc-space can be used for other, more exciting locations where you can actually, y'know "role-play".

My Shepard had more than enough reasons to want to take a stroll in the presidium. Role-playing as I understand it goes beyond the functional: it is an emotional involvement.

[bjdbwea]

Ecael wrote...

That's very opinionated, especially since the missions in ME1 start at hub worlds rather than use them as intermediates.

It's not opinionated, it's the truth. You can't deny that in the ME 1 main story missions you have lots of interaction between the shooting. And you have lots of different actors during the cutscenes before and after the missions. You do not have that in ME 2. You can argue all day how you like that better, but facts are facts.

Ecael wrote...

Mass Effect 2 also has approximately 13,000 more lines than Mass Effect 1, and clearly many more actors and interactions before, during and after each mission.

Apart from the number, which may or may not be true: Nonsense. Not even if you count the companions, who don't have much to say about the missions, if at all.

[Ecael]

bjdbwea wrote...

It's not opinionated, it's the truth. You can't deny that in the ME 1 main story missions you have lots of interaction between the shooting. And you have lots of different actors during the cutscenes before and after the missions. You do not have that in ME 2. You can argue all day how you like that better, but facts are facts.

Apart from the number, which may or may not be true: Nonsense. Not even if you count the companions, who don't have much to say about the missions, if at all.

The squadmates do talk about practically everything else when you talk to them on the Normandy yourself.

And before you start saying your opinion is fact, I counted the number of personal dialogue/romance lines (and listened to them) myself.

Normandy Personal Dialogue (1-on-1) Rankings:
Ashley* - 458
Kaidan* - 420
Tali** - 387
Garrus** - 316
Thane - 298
Jacob - 286
Jack - 250
Mordin - 245
Legion - 220
Miranda - 218
Liara - 208
Samara - 203
Wrex - 155
Grunt - 132
Kasumi - 117
Zaeed - 83
Morinth - 43

(*Includes same-sex romance dialogue)
(**ME1/ME2 personal dialogue combined - Tali (ME2) - 233, Tali (ME1) - 154, Garrus (ME2) - 146, Garrus - 170 (ME1))

[Orchomene]

Of course it's subjective. I mean, this topic is about disappointment, that is a feeling and not a rational and mechanical study of behaviours of ME2 versus ME1. I don't like the "hub world" concept of ME2 since it's unconnected to the main missions. In Noveria and Feros, there is a specific reason linked to the main plot to go to those worlds. Whereas is ME2 you go to the Citadel, Omega and Ilium for what reason ? Recruitment auditions after having received a CV. Sorry, but I've done that during my project leader job for several years and don't need a game where the main topic is recruitment.

In the main missions of ME2, you go to places with more or less only fights : Freedom's progress, Horizon, Collector ship, IFF and the final one (but with some originality in this one).