10273 réponses à ce sujet

[haberman13]

ME2 was the first Bioware game I was disappointed in ... pretty darn good track record considering.

[AlanC9]

How come so many folks botch nested quotes on this board? I don't see that in other places.

Darth Drago wrote...
-You should be punished at the expense of loosing out on experience points for not doing side quests. Otherwise whats the point in even having side quests in any game. We don’t need them for anything so lets just get rid of them.

Like inventory, eh? Works for me.

That's the thing about this thread. We get a lot of posts about feature X, Y, or Z being removed or reduced in ME2, but we don't often get posts about why the game should have had X, Y, or Z in the first place. You didn't, for instance ... you went off about a balance between fast stuff and slow stuff, which has nothing at all to do with main plot/sidequest design.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Darth Drago wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

…btw you can still play most of me2 like that - you can wander the hub-worlds as much as you like...

-To what end? There is nothing to do on these so called hub worlds anymore. Even looking at the sites are boring after your first play through when the levels are so small and uninspiring.

It's statements like that that are found all over this place. The hell is their logic at? OF COURSE we can stay in the hub worlds as long as we like, but what's the point when there's nothing to do? <_<

Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 03 juin 2010 - 10:37 .

[bjdbwea]

haberman13 wrote...

ME2 just seemed like a corridor shooter with cutscenes, and my god the "end of level" loading screen was shockingly stupid, it made the whole experience feel like just a game.. which of course this is, but I think us Bioware fans like their games for the immersion... ME2 being the least immersive of all their games.

Agreed.

haberman13 wrote...

I think Bioware will effectively become two different companies, the one who designs games for console (ME2) and the one who designs games for PC (DA:O).

If only! The truth is, even DA suffered from having to be released on consoles as well. And I'm not talking about the delay of the PC release, that was a minor thing in comparison. The details are not for this thread though.

Matter of the fact is though, at least DA still managed to provide a good story, great involvement of the companions, a (somewhat) living world, RPG elements, customization, an inventory. Oblivion and Fallout 3 also proved that these things can work on consoles too - and that they can be commercially successful. So actually, consoles and their inferior hardware and controls are no excuse to dumb ME 2 down so much, nor is the console audience. The games I mentioned are prove enough that there are enough console players who enjoy proper RPGs.

The main problem, I think, is that BioWare/EA figure the BioWare fans and the RPG fans will always buy their games no matter what, so they can do what they want to draw in as many new players as possible. Well, if anyone reads this: I for one won't (buy everything no matter what).

Modifié par bjdbwea, 03 juin 2010 - 11:42 .

[Darth Drago]

AlanC9 wrote...

How come so many folks botch nested quotes on this board? I don't see that in other places.

Darth Drago wrote...
-You should be punished at the expense of loosing out on experience points for not doing side quests. Otherwise whats the point in even having side quests in any game. We don’t need them for anything so lets just get rid of them.

Like inventory, eh? Works for me.

That's the thing about this thread. We get a lot of posts about feature X, Y, or Z being removed or reduced in ME2, but we don't often get posts about why the game should have had X, Y, or Z in the first place. You didn't, for instance ... you went off about a balance between fast stuff and slow stuff, which has nothing at all to do with main plot/sidequest design.

-Do you work for Fox News? Way to take only part of a quote to twist into something else. Here, lets look at the full part of what you quoted:

Darth Drago wrote...
-You should be punished at the expense of loosing out on experience points for not doing side quests. Otherwise whats the point in even having side quests in any game. We don’t need them for anything so lets just get rid of them. I bet that’s what your after for a perfect game, right? They just slow the game with little trivial things that have nothing to do with the main story even though they add a level of depth to the game overall.

That was a direct reply to:

Jebel Krong wrote...
2. not punishing players who don't want to explore every side-quest/nook and cranny for maximum xp is fine by me - it drives you into the story more, increasing immersion, rather than worrying about how much xp you will get for doing things. (i'd like to point out that i am of the obsessive type that would explore everywhere and do everything anyway).

It has nothing in it that states I want to remove side quests bu ****** seems you and Jebel Krong would like thm even more streamlined or just removed. 

As for the fast/slow stuff and the with main plot side quest design. It has everything to do with it when almost all of the missions you do get are centered only around shooting and there are not enough non shooting missions of any kind to even think about doing to balance the game.

They are nothing but shooter levels aimed at fast gameplay style solely catered to shooter fans.

Recruiting missions:
-Jacob and Miranda. Right from the start you wake up to combat.
-Mordin. Fight your way to get to him, fight your way to help him so you can finish it.
-Garrus. Fight your way out once you get in.
-Jack. Fight your way through the mission to get to her.
-Grunt. Fight your way through idiotically written level to find Okeer then fight some more to get Grunt.
-Thane. Fight your way up to meet him.
-Samara. Fight your way through a mission get some info she needs to get her. Another poorly written mission.
-Tali. Fight your way through to get her.
-Legion. About the only one that makes sense really, since its part of a actual main mission, but still shooting is involved.
-Zaeed and Kasumi. Just walk up and say “hi” to get them. Weak at the very least but at least you don’t need a gun to get them.
-Morinth. Requires you do get Samara so more combat.

Loyalty missions:
-Jacob. Shooting.
-Miranda. Shooting.
-Mordin. Shooting.
-Garrus. Shooting.
-Jack. Shooting.
-Grunt. Shooting but at least it makes sense here.
-Thane. No shooting.
-Samara. No shooting.
-Tali. Shooting.
-Legion. Shooting.
-Zaeed. Shooting.
-Kasumi. Shooting.

Wow, imagine that. Only 4 of all of those do not require any shooting at all.

Its sad really when you think on it how the writers couldn’t come up with anything other than combat heavy resolutions for most of them.

Even worse is how the N7 missions that don’t have combat (N7: MSV Estevanico and N7: Endangered Research Station) or very little combat (N7: Quarrian Crash Site, N7: Mining the Canyon and N7: Eclipse Smuggling Depot) are designed to be as short as possible with a poorly written story behind them. Actually story is a very long stretch, more like failed ideas scribbled on a used napkin while eating at a restaurant.

Modifié par Darth Drago, 03 juin 2010 - 11:17 .

[Pocketgb]

^ Has not been following Ecael's posts.

Unless, of course, you're referring to ME1 as well?

Modifié par Pocketgb, 03 juin 2010 - 11:43 .

[SkullandBonesmember]

haberman13 wrote...

ME2 just seemed like a corridor shooter with cutscenes, and my god the "end of level" loading screen was shockingly stupid, it made the whole experience feel like just a game.. which of course this is, but I think us Bioware fans like their games for the immersion... ME2 being the least immersive of all their games.

This is a video game! Here is your score.

[Pocketgb]

So I take it we've answered these questions, yes?

HINT: They were already given in this thread!

[finnithe]

Darth Drago wrote...

Recruiting missions:
-Jacob and Miranda. Right from the start you wake up to combat.
-Mordin. Fight your way to get to him, fight your way to help him so you can finish it.
-Garrus. Fight your way out once you get in.
-Jack. Fight your way through the mission to get to her.
-Grunt. Fight your way through idiotically written level to find Okeer then fight some more to get Grunt.
-Thane. Fight your way up to meet him.
-Samara. Fight your way through a mission get some info she needs to get her. Another poorly written mission.
-Tali. Fight your way through to get her.
-Legion. About the only one that makes sense really, since its part of a actual main mission, but still shooting is involved.
-Zaeed and Kasumi. Just walk up and say “hi” to get them. Weak at the very least but at least you don’t need a gun to get them.
-Morinth. Requires you do get Samara so more combat.

Loyalty missions:
-Jacob. Shooting.
-Miranda. Shooting.
-Mordin. Shooting.
-Garrus. Shooting.
-Jack. Shooting.
-Grunt. Shooting but at least it makes sense here.
-Thane. No shooting.
-Samara. No shooting.
-Tali. Shooting.
-Legion. Shooting.
-Zaeed. Shooting.
-Kasumi. Shooting.

Wow, imagine that. Only 4 of all of those do not require any shooting at all.

Its sad really when you think on it how the writers couldn’t come up with anything other than combat heavy resolutions for most of them.

Even worse is how the N7 missions that don’t have combat (N7: MSV Estevanico and N7: Endangered Research Station) or very little combat (N7: Quarrian Crash Site, N7: Mining the Canyon and N7: Eclipse Smuggling Depot) are designed to be as short as possible with a poorly written story behind them. Actually story is a very long stretch, more like failed ideas scribbled on a used napkin while eating at a restaurant.

You see this comparison does not work because ME2 presented the hub worlds in a different structure. In Mass Effect 2, the hub worlds were The Normandy SR-2, Citadel, Tuchanka, Illium and Omega. The Normandy, Omega and Illium you encountered during the main story, but the Citadel and Tuchanka were hub worlds set in loyalty missions. Unlike Mass Effect 1, the main drive of Mass Effect 2 occurred in the recruitment missions, which because of the increased number of companions, could not all occur on hub worlds, which is why they are combat based. Besides, the core of the game is set in the Terminus Systems, which is a particularly dangerous area in the Milky Way. Given the types of people you are recruiting, I can see why there was a lot of combat.

Also getting Samara to fight Morinth doesn't really count as combat, since you never really pull out your gun or have to use biotic powers. You're just talking. 

You are right though, it would be nice if one of the recruitment missions was some sort of extended puzzle sequence (or something of that nature) to recruit one of them. Tali being in a space station filled with traps would have been a nice concept. 

Also, one of you guys said that you didn't trust game critics, immediately after posting an article written by Tom Chick. Guess what, the guy's a game critic (as well as an actor). Why are you imposing this double standard? The piece itself is pretty bad. One of the reasons that he didn't like Mass Effect 2 was because it was too much of a sequel. It's sort of silly to sight the 2nd game in a series as having too many callbacks to the first. 

Also, for the proponents of weapon cooldown, why would I use my pistol if waiting with my Sniper RIfle will make it regenerate bullets. Why would I use powers if my Sniper Rifle could just cooldown? Why are you so bothered by looting of thermal clips when you have to loot bodies in other RPGs like Dragon Age?

Modifié par finnithe, 04 juin 2010 - 01:25 .

[AlanC9]

Darth Drago wrote...

-Do you work for Fox News? Way to take only part of a quote to twist into something else. Here, lets look at the full part of what you quoted:

Ooh... I guess it's go time.

Darth Drago wrote...

 I bet that’s what your after for a perfect game, right? They just slow the game with little trivial things that have nothing to do with the main story even though they add a level of depth to the game overall.

I don't have any problem with this except that it's meaningless.  What is "depth," and how do the ME1 sidequests add "depth"?

It has nothing in it that states I want to remove side quests bu ****** seems you and Jebel Krong would like thm even more streamlined or just removed.

Yeah, I knew you didn't want to remove sidequests. You were obviously being sarcastic, and I was playing along. I suppose I should have made that explicit.

Edit: Speaking of being explicit, I guess I should take a position here. I don't care about "sidequests" at all. I care about whether what my character is doing makes sense given what he knows about the current situation. A lot of RPG sidequests don't make the cut. This depends on the main plot, obviously.

As for the fast/slow stuff and the with main plot side quest design. It has everything to do with it when almost all of the missions you do get are centered only around shooting and there are not enough non shooting missions of any kind to even think about doing to balance the game.

Don't be silly. Whether or not a mission involves shooting is not dependent on whether or not it's part of the main plot. It's whatever the level designer decided to do. Period.

As for ME2 needing a larger proportion of  non-shoot missions, maybe it does. Care to do a similar chart of ME1 missions?

Modifié par AlanC9, 04 juin 2010 - 02:32 .

[IoCaster]

finnithe wrote...
You see this comparison does not work because ME2 presented the hub worlds in a different structure. In Mass Effect 2, the hub worlds were The Normandy SR-2, Citadel, Tuchanka, Illium and Omega. The Normandy, Omega and Illium you encountered during the main story, but the Citadel and Tuchanka were hub worlds set in loyalty missions. Unlike Mass Effect 1, the main drive of Mass Effect 2 occurred in the recruitment missions, which because of the increased number of companions, could not all occur on hub worlds, which is why they are combat based. Besides, the core of the game is set in the Terminus Systems, which is a particularly dangerous area in the Milky Way. Given the types of people you are recruiting, I can see why there was a lot of combat.

I'm kind of interested in this concept of the Normandy in ME2 serving the function of a hub world. What's the reasoning behind that claim? I would also be interested to know if you consider the Normandy in ME to be a hub world as well?

As far as Illium is concerned, you don't ever have to go there. You don't have to recruit Thane or Samara and you can certainly tell Miranda to stuff her loyalty mission. There's no need to go there at all. It's the same with Tuchanka. Neither one of those hub worlds are essential to the plot or the mission. I would advise going to each of them anyway, if only to visit the vendors for some upgrades.

[Darth Drago]

finnithe wrote...
You see this comparison does not work because ME2 presented the hub worlds in a different structure. In Mass Effect 2, the hub worlds were The Normandy SR-2, Citadel, Tuchanka, Illium and Omega. The Normandy, Omega and Illium you encountered during the main story, but the Citadel and Tuchanka were hub worlds set in loyalty missions. Unlike Mass Effect 1, the main drive of Mass Effect 2 occurred in the recruitment missions, which because of the increased number of companions, could not all occur on hub worlds, which is why they are combat based. Besides, the core of the game is set in the Terminus Systems, which is a particularly dangerous area in the Milky Way. Given the types of people you are recruiting, I can see why there was a lot of combat.

-In comparison, in ME1 everywhere you went was just as dangerous no matter where you went (main or UNC quests) in it. In recruiting in ME1 Garrus and Talli had short combat encounters. Wrex had just a talk to get and Liara was a nice long one to get full of combat.

Also, to many recruiting or loyalty missions did take place on these hub worlds. Illium you recruit Thane and Samra and do Miranda’s loyalty mission on it. Omega you get Garrus and Mordin (Zaeed if you have the download) and Samara has a loyalty mission here. Citadel you have Garrus’s and Thane’s loyalty missions (and pick up Kasumi if you have the download). Grunt and Mordin both have loyalty missions on Tuchunka. Everything is to conveniently located.

finnithe wrote...
Also getting Samara to fight Morinth doesn't really count as combat, since you never really pull out your gun or have to use biotic powers. You're just talking.

-You have to still recruit Samara to get to Morinth.

finnithe wrote...
Also, for the proponents of weapon cooldown, why would I use my pistol if waiting with my Sniper RIfle will make it regenerate bullets. Why would I use powers if my Sniper Rifle could just cooldown? Why are you so bothered by looting of thermal clips when you have to loot bodies in other RPGs like Dragon Age?

-Consider if Dragon Age had no ammo system for its bows and crossbows and in Dragon Age 2 they suddenly added them in the game. Not only do they add them but now your total carrying capacity is limited depending on the bow type, 40 for a cross bow, 65 for a short bow and 99 for long bow. To top things off they decorate every location you will have a fight in with little dropping of ammo.

The thermal clips in ME2 are not even doing what they should do, add extended firing without overheating as fast. They are nothing but an ammo system. Toss in the fact that you also find them in places where they shouldn’t be even found like in the Collector ship and base or on a planet that’s been isolated from anyone for about 10 years (Jacob’s loyalty mission).
 

Modifié par Darth Drago, 04 juin 2010 - 02:52 .

[Darth Drago]

AlanC9 wrote...
Don't be silly. Whether or not a mission involves shooting is not dependent on whether or not it's part of the main plot. It's whatever the level designer decided to do. Period.

-True but ME2 relies to heavily on shooter missions.

AlanC9 wrote...
As for ME2 needing a larger proportion of non-shoot missions, maybe it does. Care to do a similar chart of ME1 missions?

-Fair enough. All of these are non combat quests. Some do offer a shootout option if you want to go that way, something ME2 doesn’t even give you an option on.

-Citadel: Old, Unhappy, Far-Off Things
-Citadel: Old Friends
-Citadel: I Remember Me
-Citadel: Asari Consort
-Citadel: Doctor Michel
-Citadel: Homecoming
-Citadel: Jahleed's Fears
-Citadel: Presidium Prophet
-Citadel: Reporter's Request
-Citadel: Rita's Sister
-Citadel: Scan the Keepers
-Citadel: Schells the Gambler
-Citadel: Signal Tracking
-Citadel: The Fan
-Citadel: Xeltan's Complaint
-Citadel: Family Matter
-Citadel: Planting a Bug
-Citadel: The Fourth Estate
-Citadel: Negotiator's Request
-Noveria: Smuggling
-Noveria: Espionage
-UNC: Major Kyle (can be done without firing a single shot)
-UNC: The Negotiation (can be done without firing a single shot)
-UNC: Lost Freighter (has only one person to shoot)

Granted, main quest wise they all have combat involved. However recruiting Garrus didn’t involve that much combat at all. Getting Wrex all you did have to do was talk to him. Taking him to get Tali was optional.

*edited to fix an error.　

Modifié par Darth Drago, 04 juin 2010 - 04:04 .

[Kalfear]

Darth Drago wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Don't be silly. Whether or not a mission involves shooting is not dependent on whether or not it's part of the main plot. It's whatever the level designer decided to do. Period.

-True but ME2 relies to heavily on shooter missions.

AlanC9 wrote...
As for ME2 needing a larger proportion of non-shoot missions, maybe it does. Care to do a similar chart of ME1 missions?

-Fair enough. All of these are non combat quests. Some do offer a shootout option if you want to go that way, something ME2 doesn’t even give you an option on.

-Citadel: Old, Unhappy, Far-Off Things
-Citadel: Old Friends
-Citadel: I Remember Me
-Citadel: Asari Consort
-Citadel: Doctor Michel
-Citadel: Homecoming
-Citadel: Jahleed's Fears
-Citadel: Presidium Prophet
-Citadel: Reporter's Request
-Citadel: Rita's Sister
-Citadel: Scan the Keepers
-Citadel: Schells the Gambler
-Citadel: Signal Tracking
-Citadel: The Fan
-Citadel: Xeltan's Complaint
-Citadel: Family Matter
-Citadel: Planting a Bug
-Citadel: The Fourth Estate
-Citadel: Negotiator's Request
-Noveria: Smuggling
-Noveria: Espionage
-UNC: Major Kyle (can be done without firing a single shot)
-UNC: The Negotiation (can be done without firing a single shot)
-UNC: Lost Freighter (has only one person to shoot)

Granted, main quest wise they all have combat involved. However recruiting Tali, Garrus and Wrex either didn’t involve that much combat or none at all.
　

great list Drago but hate to correctyou, getting Wrex and Tali involved killing the gangster and then the bad guys about to kidnap Tali, so you had to fight there!

But in those fights you had a reason to be fighting, in ME2, many times you fighting because you feel Bioware wanted to, the situation didnt demand it, thats just how it was designed.

[Darth Drago]

Ooops, forgot about that fight... fixing it now... A Homer moment, "D'oh!"

Getting Wrex, all you did have to do was talk to him. Taking him to the the fight to get Tali was optional.

Modifié par Darth Drago, 04 juin 2010 - 04:22 .

[Kalfear]

Darth Drago wrote...

Ooops, forgot about that fight... fixing it now... A Homer moment, "D'oh!"

Getting Wrex, all you did have to do was talk to him. Taking him to the the fight to get Tali was optional.

No, Wrex agrees to come along only if he gets to face the gangster, at which point the timer hits and you have to take him to get Tali!

you have the whole bar brawl and back room stuff where Wrex kills the gangster (sorryy forget character name) and then you go save Tali

[Darth Drago]

Kalfear wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

Ooops, forgot about that fight... fixing it now... A Homer moment, "D'oh!"

Getting Wrex, all you did have to do was talk to him. Taking him to the the fight to get Tali was optional.

No, Wrex agrees to come along only if he gets to face the gangster, at which point the timer hits and you have to take him to get Tali!

you have the whole bar brawl and back room stuff where Wrex kills the gangster (sorryy forget character name) and then you go save Tali

He isn’t needed. I’ve done the quest with Ashley and Kaiden in my group to go after Fist just to see their reaction when I kill him.

[Hadark]

I always killed or let Fist go before talking to Wrex. I never hired Wrex till i was ready to leave the Citadel.

[Kalfear]

Darth Drago wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

Ooops, forgot about that fight... fixing it now... A Homer moment, "D'oh!"

Getting Wrex, all you did have to do was talk to him. Taking him to the the fight to get Tali was optional.

No, Wrex agrees to come along only if he gets to face the gangster, at which point the timer hits and you have to take him to get Tali!

you have the whole bar brawl and back room stuff where Wrex kills the gangster (sorryy forget character name) and then you go save Tali

He isn’t needed. I’ve done the quest with Ashley and Kaiden in my group to go after Fist just to see their reaction when I kill him.

hmmmm weird, granted its been a while, I might be misremembering now

[Darth Drago]

Kalfear wrote...

hmmmm weird, granted its been a while, I might be misremembering now

Maybe you just chose him because he’s one of the best for the job?

In my 6 run throughs and 1 that I just left the Citadel, I took Wrex in 6 of them because I liked him better than Kaiden. It was during my 7th game that I decided to leave him behind for once and on a higher difficulty no less.

Going by the Mass Effect Wiki (and the post above yours by Hadark) you can go after Fist without even talking ot Wrex and he’ll meet you at your ship to join up and I guess to pay you the bounty he would have gotten for Fist.

Modifié par Darth Drago, 04 juin 2010 - 06:00 .

[SkullandBonesmember]

Darth Drago wrote...

Going by the Mass Effect Wiki (and the post above yours by Hadark) you can go after Fist without even talking ot Wrex and he’ll meet you at your ship to join up and I guess to pay you the bounty he would have gotten for Fist.

Yeah, that's usually what I do. Kill Fist myself to get paid some credits.

[Pocketgb]

Darth Drago wrote...
-Fair enough. All of these are non combat quests. Some do offer a shootout option if you want to go that way, something ME2 doesn’t even give you an option on.

-Citadel: Old, Unhappy, Far-Off Things
-Citadel: Old Friends
-Citadel: I Remember Me
-Citadel: Asari Consort
-Citadel: Doctor Michel
-Citadel: Homecoming
-Citadel: Jahleed's Fears
-Citadel: Presidium Prophet
-Citadel: Reporter's Request
-Citadel: Rita's Sister
-Citadel: Scan the Keepers
-Citadel: Schells the Gambler
-Citadel: Signal Tracking
-Citadel: The Fan
-Citadel: Xeltan's Complaint
-Citadel: Family Matter
-Citadel: Planting a Bug
-Citadel: The Fourth Estate
-Citadel: Negotiator's Request
-Noveria: Smuggling
-Noveria: Espionage
-UNC: Major Kyle (can be done without firing a single shot)
-UNC: The Negotiation (can be done without firing a single shot)
-UNC: Lost Freighter (has only one person to shoot)

Granted, main quest wise they all have combat involved. However recruiting Garrus didn’t involve that much combat at all. Getting Wrex all you did have to do was talk to him. Taking him to get Tali was optional.

*edited to fix an error.　

What about all the assignments across Illium, Omega, and the Citadel  in ME2? How much further do we need to split hairs here?

Modifié par Pocketgb, 04 juin 2010 - 07:58 .

[CroGamer002]

Darth Drago wrote...



Recruiting missions:
-Jacob and Miranda. Right from the start you wake up to combat.
-Mordin. Fight your way to get to him, fight your way to help him so you can finish it.
-Garrus. Fight your way out once you get in.
-Jack. Fight your way through the mission to get to her.
-Grunt. Fight your way through idiotically written level to find Okeer then fight some more to get Grunt.
-Thane. Fight your way up to meet him.
-Samara. Fight your way through a mission get some info she needs to get her. Another poorly written mission.
-Tali. Fight your way through to get her.
-Legion. About the only one that makes sense really, since its part of a actual main mission, but still shooting is involved.
-Zaeed and Kasumi. Just walk up and say “hi” to get them. Weak at the very least but at least you don’t need a gun to get them.
-Morinth. Requires you do get Samara so more combat.

Loyalty missions:
-Jacob. Shooting.
-Miranda. Shooting.
-Mordin. Shooting.
-Garrus. Shooting.
-Jack. Shooting.
-Grunt. Shooting but at least it makes sense here.
-Thane. No shooting.
-Samara. No shooting.
-Tali. Shooting.
-Legion. Shooting.
-Zaeed. Shooting.
-Kasumi. Shooting.

Wow, imagine that. Only 4 of all of those do not require any shooting at all.

Its sad really when you think on it how the writers couldn’t come up with anything other than combat heavy resolutions for most of them.

Didn't Ecael proved that both ME1 and ME2 are about shooting 50 pages ago?!
Recruting in ME1
Ashley: kill few flying drones and two Geths
Garrus: kill some dudes
Wrex: talk to him
Tali: kill some bunch of dudes
Liara: kill platoon of Geth in Mako, then on foot kill more Geth and Geth Armeture, then in cave kill more Geth and a Krogan

"Loyalty" missions in ME1:
Garrus: kill some zombies and kill doctor
Wrex: kill bunch of dudes and get his armor
Tali: kill platoon of Geth in 4-5 planets with Mako and get some Geth data

Darth Drago wrote...
Even worse is how the N7 missions that don’t have combat (N7: MSV
Estevanico and N7: Endangered Research Station) or very little combat
(N7: Quarrian Crash Site, N7: Mining the Canyon and N7: Eclipse
Smuggling Depot) are designed to be as short as possible with a poorly
written story behind them. Actually story is a very long stretch, more
like failed ideas scribbled on a used napkin while eating at a
restaurant.

Now you are complaining for no combat?<_<

Modifié par Mesina2, 04 juin 2010 - 08:11 .

[Jebel Krong]

Darth Drago wrote...

It has nothing in it that states I want to remove side quests bu ****** seems you and Jebel Krong would like thm even more streamlined or just removed. 

*snip*

Even worse is how the N7 missions that don’t have combat (N7: MSV Estevanico and N7: Endangered Research Station) or very little combat (N7: Quarrian Crash Site, N7: Mining the Canyon and N7: Eclipse Smuggling Depot) are designed to be as short as possible with a poorly written story behind them. Actually story is a very long stretch, more like failed ideas scribbled on a used napkin while eating at a restaurant.

absolutely not - as i specifically pointed out i am obsessive-compulsive about doing everything everywhere (even mining all the planets on my first playthrough...), i have nothing against the sidequests at all, i do not, however, accept that players must be punished for not doing non-critical elements - in the case of me2 that was solved by xp being awarded on the mission completion, not individual actions - a better and more immersive system.

as for your point about the N7 missions, what a lot of you don't seem to get is that they were designed as brief diversions as rewards for exploring - all the main missions/sidequests etc are linked to the main worlds and are far more numerous than in me1, therefore these missions don't need to be linked anymore than a lot of the UNC ones in me1 were, they also don't need to be bigger (though, of course more content/depth is alsways appreciated).

Darth Drago wrote...

-True but ME2 relies to heavily on
shooter missions.

hate to point out the obvious, but me1 does, as well. only the combat isn't nearly as well-executed.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 04 juin 2010 - 08:44 .

[Jebel Krong]

bjdbwea wrote...

If only! The truth is, even DA suffered from having to be released on consoles as well. And I'm not talking about the delay of the PC release, that was a minor thing in comparison. The details are not for this thread though.

Matter of the fact is though, at least DA still managed to provide a good story, great involvement of the companions, a (somewhat) living world, RPG elements, customization, an inventory. Oblivion and Fallout 3 also proved that these things can work on consoles too - and that they can be commercially successful. So actually, consoles and their inferior hardware and controls are no excuse to dumb ME 2 down so much, nor is the console audience. The games I mentioned are prove enough that there are enough console players who enjoy proper RPGs.

The main problem, I think, is that BioWare/EA figure the BioWare fans and the RPG fans will always buy their games no matter what, so they can do what they want to draw in as many new players as possible. Well, if anyone reads this: I for one won't (buy everything no matter what).

DA:O was never designed as a 3rd person action-RPG either, it is purposely more of a traditional RPG, so your comparisons are invalid.

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

Jebel
Krong wrote...

…btw you can still play most of me2 like that -
you can wander the hub-worlds as much as you like...

-To
what end? There is nothing to do on these so called hub worlds anymore.
Even looking at the sites are boring after your first play through when
the levels are so small and uninspiring.

It's statements
like that that are found all over this place. The hell is their logic
at? OF COURSE we can stay in the hub worlds as long as we like, but
what's the point when there's nothing to do? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

you, sir are a real prize.... my comment was in direct response to another comment about the citadel being this huge, replayable hub that you could wander around for ages, i merely stated that you could do the same in me2's hubs if you wished, as well. there's nothing to do but appreciate the art design in any after completing the missions there, in either game. if you want to quote-mine to make some flippant "point" make sure the original poster isn't going to come back and make you look stupid, eh?

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 04 juin 2010 - 08:43 .