10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

I would not call ME1 and ME2 shooter. I my opinion they reminds me more like adventure action game, like Tomb Raider. How ever, how the game is design is totally different, with voice dialogs and cinematic gameplay. How ever, if I compare this game to some shooter like couter strike, I don't think so. Mostly because ME1's and ME2's main weight is on storytelling. Sure, both games has alot of combat, but they also have alot of cinematic dialogs with story.

Modifié par Lumikki, 05 juin 2010 - 01:32 .

[SkullandBonesmember]

ShepardWrex wrote...

Damn straight. ME1/ME2 are not RPGs unless RPG means Romance Playa' Game. Then it deserves that name

They're substandard shooters in comparison to Gears of War.

Horrible AI = Horrible immersion

Don't get me started on being able to stand around for 10 minutes while paused and ""picking"" your dialog or spells. That's just lazy design for a shooter trilogy like Mass Effect.

Was that sarcasm or do you really think multiple, OPTIONAL romances isn't the direction RPGs should evolve?

[ShepardWrex]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

ShepardWrex wrote...

Damn straight. ME1/ME2 are not RPGs unless RPG means Romance Playa' Game. Then it deserves that name

They're substandard shooters in comparison to Gears of War.

Horrible AI = Horrible immersion

Don't get me started on being able to stand around for 10 minutes while paused and ""picking"" your dialog or spells. That's just lazy design for a shooter trilogy like Mass Effect.

Was that sarcasm or do you really think multiple, OPTIONAL romances isn't the direction RPGs should evolve?

Romance Playa Games target the same age range of teenagers as Halo and Call of Duty.

Don't deny it.

[cachx]

WilliamShatner wrote...There is an interview on gametrailers with Muzyka and the other guy, following ME2's release where they blatantly call the game a "shooter".  Not an RPG. Not an action-RPG (which was what they called ME1).  But a "shooter". Their focus has changed.  Deal with it.

"an incredible, new Shooter RPG", C. Norman.


"Is as much a shooter as is an RPG", said by the Dr. himself...

D-E-A-L

Modifié par cachx, 05 juin 2010 - 01:22 .

[Pocketgb]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...


MMOs are a poor man's RPG. Most agree with that. As pointed out,
The Old Republic was already planned. The fact EA didn't get their
hands on Bioware until after Mass Effect was complete really is
irrelevant because at the end of the day, yeah, EA saw the bigger
potential in the shooter market over RPG market.

:I You just kind of flat out just pushed aside everything Ecael just said.

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Was that sarcasm or do you really think multiple, OPTIONAL romances isn't the direction RPGs should evolve?

His point was that the romances are possibly the only outstanding and noteworthy RPG feature in ME1 and ME2. Even though I adore both games, he's not really too far off.

Requesting Shepard's 'DEAL WITH IT' image!

Darth Drago wrote...

4. Please, no pictures in your posting unless it pertains to the topic.

I could have simply said "haters gonna hate" or even go as far to imply "hatersgonnahate.jpg", but I'd much rather deliver it in an interesting image to truly display my view - that being "I ain't gonna give a sheeit!"

I'd rather follow the forums' rules in this regard, but I'll do my best to spare you since it's your thread overall and I want to respect that.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 05 juin 2010 - 01:22 .

[ShepardWrex]

cachx wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...There is an interview on gametrailers with Muzyka and the other guy, following ME2's release where they blatantly call the game a "shooter".  Not an RPG. Not an action-RPG (which was what they called ME1).  But a "shooter". Their focus has changed.  Deal with it.

"an incredible, new Shooter RPG", C. Norman.


"Is as much a shooter as is an RPG", said by the Dr. himself...

D-E-A-L

Hell yes. Except for the incredible part. ME1 and ME2 have yet to meet my standards of a true shooter.

[WilliamShatner]

cachx wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...There is an interview on gametrailers with Muzyka and the other guy, following ME2's release where they blatantly call the game a "shooter".  Not an RPG. Not an action-RPG (which was what they called ME1).  But a "shooter". Their focus has changed.  Deal with it.

"an incredible, new Shooter RPG", C. Norman.


"Is as much a shooter as is an RPG", said by the Dr. himself...

D-E-A-L

Neither of them are the interivew I was refering to.

And both of them are part of pre-release PR hypetrain trying to "reassure ME1 fans" and sell the game.

The interview I was talking about was AFTER ME2 was released (I think it was around the time Firewalker was announced) when they had already sold the games to RPG and ME1 fans. 

[ShepardWrex]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Neither of them are the interivew I was refering to.

And both of them are part of pre-release PR hypetrain trying to "reassure ME1 fans" and sell the game.

The interview I was talking about was AFTER ME2 was released (I think it was around the time Firewalker was announced) when they had already sold the games to RPG and ME1 fans. 

BioWare hypetrain lasts from prerelease all the way to the last DLC. They don't want to say how average it is.

Shooter game it is!

[SkullandBonesmember]

Uhh, most here that appreciates story driven games aren't the teenage demographic. If you take away the dialogue wheel and romances, it's no longer an RPG.

[ShepardWrex]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Uhh, most here that appreciates story driven games aren't the teenage demographic. If you take away the dialogue wheel and romances, it's no longer an RPG.

"Story driven" games? All demographics.

Romance Playa Games? Teenagers.

Unless you think ME2 is twice the RP than ME1 is for having x2 the LIs.

[ShepardWrex]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Cuddling scenes? 13yr olds

Sideboob? 15-16 years at best.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Some people post like they work on Bioware or EA, seriously wtf. This new guy on the thread, geez.



God...Muzyka has said the game is AS MUCH AS A SHOOTER AS IT IS AN RPG. He didn't say the game IS a freakin' SHOOTER.



I remembered that's why I usually avoid this thread.

[AlanC9]

ShepardWrex wrote...Everyone else seems to follow Shepard because they're in love with him or some extraordinary circumstance where Shepard saves their butt.

That's idiotic. Kaidan and Ashley follow Shepard because they're, you know, Alliance soldiers; Shepard did save Ashley, but that's incidental. Garrus is in because he was trying  to stop Saren before he even heard of Shepard.

[AlanC9]

And since I'm feeling particularly contemptuous tonight...

ShepardWrex wrote...
Ashley -> Saved on Eden Prime -> Romanceable
Kaidan -> Romanceable

You do know that they're not bisexual in the game as released, right? So being romanceable simply can't be an explanation for their joining the mission.

[ShepardWrex]

AlanC9 wrote...

ShepardWrex wrote...Everyone else seems to follow Shepard because they're in love with him or some extraordinary circumstance where Shepard saves their butt.

That's idiotic. Kaidan and Ashley follow Shepard because they're, you know, Alliance soldiers; Shepard did save Ashley, but that's incidental. Garrus is in because he was trying  to stop Saren before he even heard of Shepard.

Garrus got saved in ME2.

All 3 you listed can fall in love with Shepard, one way or the other.

RPS == Romance Playa' Shooter

[AlanC9]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Neither of them are the interivew I was refering to.

You referred to it. You look it up.

[ShepardWrex]

ShepardWrex wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Cuddling scenes? 13yr olds

Sideboob? 15-16 years at best.

Changed my mind.

Cuddling scenes & Sideboob - 13 year olds at best. People are hitting puberty earlier these days.

BW needs to stop catering to the teenage crowd with all this pointless shooter and "romance" garbage that teenagers flock to like their "literary erotica" and bad action movies.

ME2 already disappointed me with 6 freakin' LIs. Just Have all the LIs return and give them grenade launchers. That way they can kill stuff much easier too while you romance 'em

[searanox]

I'll sum up my thoughts on Mass Effect 1 and 2 here, if only as a way of centering my opinions.

Mass Effect is a decent role-playing game with an interesting science fiction universe, and likable, if generic characters who are all archetypes when you discount their alien appearances. The story is simple, predictable and for the most part doesn't have many plot holes; it has good pacing, and feels self-contained while still hinting at greater things to come. Moral decision making feels forced, and the paragon/renegade system streams players into making decisions not based on outcomes, but on whether it will give them points in one stat or another, which is a downside. Combat is stat-based and fairly satisfying considering the problems with implementing RPG mechanics with shooter gameplay, and there are a fair number of options for building your character, though these options don't really have any effect outside of combat. Level design is bland and mediocre, except a few places like the Citadel, which were obviously given far more effort. In all, a solid game hampered by what feels like some half-ideas that never came together due to a lack of development time or budget.

Mass Effect 2 is a quality third-person shooter which maintains small role-playing elements such as character interaction and side-missions. The story is mostly inconsequential and does little to advance Mass Effect as a series, but the individual characters and scenarios are mostly well-written and enjoyable. Plot holes and poor motivations for heroes and villains, plus railroading, ultimately lead to a lack of satisfaction. Moral decision ranking is still arbitrary and doesn't reward making decisions based on outcomes, but at least renegade options feel less like "raving jackass" and more like "crude but effective". Combat is enjoyable, responsive and tactile, with player skill having more effect on outcomes than character development, but also doesn't quite reach the same level of contemporary shooters.  Character building and inventory is streamlined and allows for less customisation, but the differences between options feel more substantial, even if class determines nothing outside of combat.  Level design is vastly improved over the first game, mostly due to better art direction, but environments can also feel too linear and gameplay-driven. Once again, non-combat areas like the Citadel, Omega and Illium are more interesting than the places the majority of the action takes place in. Overall, Mass Effect 2 is a weaker game than the first in terms of writing and role-playing, but also improves when it comes to minute-to-minute gameplay and in realising the series' universe.

Modifié par searanox, 05 juin 2010 - 02:21 .

[SkullandBonesmember]

So you're OPPOSED to OPTIONAL romances? And ANYBODY who thinks romance is BENEFICIAL to a story driven game is either a horny teenager or a ComicCon anime lovin virgin loser? If memory serves correctly, the only thing related to romances shown in any character reveal/trailer for ME2 was for Jack and Tali. THAT'S IT.

 http://meforums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=717725&forum=144

^Some wonderful points in that thread.

[searanox]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

So you're OPPOSED to OPTIONAL romances? And ANYBODY who thinks romance is BENEFICIAL to a story driven game is either a horny teenager or a ComicCon anime lovin virgin loser? If memory serves correctly, the only thing related to romances shown in any character reveal/trailer for ME2 was for Jack and Tali. THAT'S IT.

 http://meforums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=717725&forum=144

^Some wonderful points in that thread.

Personally I think the inclusion of optional romances in Mass Effect is pure fan service, much like the paragon/renegade system and other character customisation options.  BioWare seem intent on building Shepard as a very specific character, and yet they continue to include player decision-making in order to pretend their game is still an RPG.  While Mass Effect could at least back this up with gameplay, Mass Effect 2 headed down a far more linear road, and it seems odd to think that there's any reason for player choice other than "hey, our fans might want to see these people naked, but we have so many that picking one love interest as canon might upset some of them."

Modifié par searanox, 05 juin 2010 - 02:27 .

[ShepardWrex]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

So you're OPPOSED to OPTIONAL romances? And ANYBODY who thinks romance is BENEFICIAL to a story driven game is either a horny teenager or a ComicCon anime lovin virgin loser? If memory serves correctly, the only thing related to romances shown in any character reveal/trailer for ME2 was for Jack and Tali. THAT'S IT.

 http://meforums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=717725&forum=144

^Some wonderful points in that thread.

Your memory is fuzzy. Do you not remember the big hoopla Foxnews made about the sex scenes in ME1?

http://www.1up.com/d...ory?cId=3165591

I wouldn't be surprised if EA intentionally paid some FOX reporter to get publicity for their game. That's exactly the kind of thing that EA would do to attract teenagers to this Romance Playas' Game.

Modifié par ShepardWrex, 05 juin 2010 - 02:30 .

[SkullandBonesmember]

searanox wrote...

Personally I think the inclusion of optional romances in Mass Effect is pure fan service, much like the paragon/renegade system and other character customisation options.  BioWare seem intent on building Shepard as a very specific character, and yet they continue to include player decision-making in order to pretend their game is still an RPG.  While Mass Effect could at least back this up with gameplay, Mass Effect 2 headed down a far more linear road, and it seems odd to think that there's any reason for player choice other than "hey, our fans might want to see these people naked, but we have so many that picking one love interest as canon might upset some of them."

Yeah, because forever and ever video games should never evolve.

[ShepardWrex]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

searanox wrote...

Personally I think the inclusion of optional romances in Mass Effect is pure fan service, much like the paragon/renegade system and other character customisation options.  BioWare seem intent on building Shepard as a very specific character, and yet they continue to include player decision-making in order to pretend their game is still an RPG.  While Mass Effect could at least back this up with gameplay, Mass Effect 2 headed down a far more linear road, and it seems odd to think that there's any reason for player choice other than "hey, our fans might want to see these people naked, but we have so many that picking one love interest as canon might upset some of them."

Yeah, because forever and ever video games should never evolve.

Evolve into what? Short dirty romance stories? Substandard shooters?

If by evolve you mean "target the lowest common denominator", then sure. Electronic Arts is king at catering to them.

[SkullandBonesmember]

ShepardWrex wrote...

Your memory is fuzzy. Do you not remember the big hoopla Foxnews made about the sex scenes in ME1?

http://www.1up.com/d...ory?cId=3165591

I wouldn't be surprised if EA intentionally paid some FOX reporter to get publicity for their game. That's exactly the kind of thing that EA would do to attract teenagers to this Romance Playas' Game.

Of course I remember. What does conservative Fox have to do with marketing? If they did nothing but say "HAY LOOK U CAN **** THIS ONE AND THAT ONE AND THAT ONE AND THIS ONE!" you'd have a case, but they don't market it like that.

ShepardWrex wrote...

Evolve into what? Short dirty romance stories? Substandard shooters?

If by evolve you mean "target the lowest common denominator", then sure. Electronic Arts is king at catering to them.

Now kindly answer this please-
And ANYBODY who thinks romance is BENEFICIAL to a story driven game is either a horny teenager or a ComicCon anime lovin virgin loser?