10273 réponses à ce sujet

[ShepardWrex]

Calculatrice wrote...

ShepardWrex wrote...

It's against the rules to say the truth?

Why do people get so uptight when I say that romances, sex n' shooters are for the horny teenager crowd? That's exactly who EA is marketing the game for!

So obvious yet people are so blind.

LIsten, you can rant all you want, but that won't change anything. If you dislike Bioware's game, then don't play it, and go play such games as gears of war, or Dragon age, or whatever such games you have preference to. Just don't go badmouthing a game on a support and discussion forum full of people who have played and liked the game. This may be a discussion of opinions on what Mass Effect 2 did wrong, but nobody said it was for ranting about how romance and mechanics have destroyed the entire experience. Calm down, this isn't a highschool tech club, or 4Chan, and we are not at the level of yelling about things on an internet forum like children.

Romance and shooter mechanics are EXACTLY what ruined Mass Effect in order to cater to the younger generation and generate sales.

It's what people BUY the game for.

[SkullandBonesmember]

ShepardWrex wrote...

51x34http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/jacksmedula/f8caa47b435c1fe14d849a44fd6eb3091.gif[/img]Current generation of gamers.

51x34http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg206/Reisyukaku/FatKid.gif[/img]Current generation of American sex-crazed teenage gamers.

Both like headshots and splody (sticky?) stuff. For the second one, it's headshots of a different kind!

Sad.

From Goat_Shepard:

I'm so confused by all this. You're saying someone is going to spend 60 dollars on a game, and painfully play through it for 20 hours so they can watch 10 seconds of cartoon characters lying in bed? When they can go on Google and type in "boobies" and actually get something explicit? This is why Fox News and people like-minded make me laugh. You can see dirtier things on Animal Planet.

On the other hand, I found the conversational part of your squad-mates to be the most intruiging. Talking with Kaidan and everyone else about their past was total nonessential but interesting nonetheless. Instead of giving you a bunch of thugs that you don't care about, Bioware gives you these life-like people that you can not only learn about but interact with.

No single aspect of Bioware's games takes away from the other aspects. The HUGE amount of dialogue doesn't take away from the gameplay. The RPG doesn't rule out the shooter, and vice-versa.

I'd play these games with ZERO romance options. I didn't know anything about the ME1 LI's because I borrowed it from a friend, and I loved the game before I realized you could do more than just give your squadmate a gun.

[searanox]

ShepardWrex wrote...

It's against the rules to say the truth?

Why do people get so uptight when I say that romances, sex n' shooters are for the horny teenager crowd? That's exactly who EA is marketing the game for!

So obvious yet people are so blind.

I think you're making a mistake here.

Sex and action are usually used to market to a core male audience, since they are both things that have a broad appeal.

Romance, on the other hand is different.  Not everyone is interested in romance, because it requires time and investment, and is at odds with the instant gratification sex and action provide gamers.  While I do think that the romance is there to appeal to a particular type of player, I don't think that romance is included in order to increase the game's appeal to the same demographic that would be taken in by raw gunplay, explosions and boobs.

I do definitely agree that the motivations of the characters in Mass Effect are a bit suspect, though at the same time the point about characters being with Shepard either due to romance or butt-saving oversimplifies things a bit.  Consider: several characters partner with Shepard in Mass Effect 2 because they have nothing to lose, are being paid a lot, or are old friends.  In Mass Effect, about half the squadmates are military and thus obligated to follow Shepard.  The other members all have interests in either stopping the Reapers or studying the Protheans, and in fact, Wrex has the weakest justification for teaming up with Shepard (basically, he just wants action - he only develops other reasons until well into the game, around Virmire).

[bjdbwea]

fortunesque wrote...

I don't know if I ought to start a new thread about it, though. I'll just get trolled and gifed to death by the "YOU CAN LIKE IT OR YOU CAN GET OUT" people that seem to be rampant on these forums.

Of course, but so what? Some people will also agree with you. Voicing your opinion is the only thing you can do in the hopes of getting a better ME 3. If not, I agree that we have to vote with the wallet. I will also not buy ME 3 if it doesn't improve.

But the chances that the developers read this thread - and find your post within - are really small. I'm not saying everyone should start a new thread just to say "I liked it" or "I didn't", but your post is well worth of its own thread, I think. And I want to encourage everyone else who might be just reading this thread, to make your own voice heard too. Don't be discouraged by the predictable responses from people who somehow can't accept different opinions about a game they happened to enjoy.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 05 juin 2010 - 03:57 .

[Calculatrice]

ShepardWrex wrote...

Calculatrice wrote...

ShepardWrex wrote...

It's against the rules to say the truth?

Why do people get so uptight when I say that romances, sex n' shooters are for the horny teenager crowd? That's exactly who EA is marketing the game for!

So obvious yet people are so blind.

LIsten, you can rant all you want, but that won't change anything. If you dislike Bioware's game, then don't play it, and go play such games as gears of war, or Dragon age, or whatever such games you have preference to. Just don't go badmouthing a game on a support and discussion forum full of people who have played and liked the game. This may be a discussion of opinions on what Mass Effect 2 did wrong, but nobody said it was for ranting about how romance and mechanics have destroyed the entire experience. Calm down, this isn't a highschool tech club, or 4Chan, and we are not at the level of yelling about things on an internet forum like children.

Romance and shooter mechanics are EXACTLY what ruined Mass Effect in order to cater to the younger generation and generate sales.

It's what people BUY the game for.

And you're entitled to your opinion. But that doesn't mean it's okay to rant on about these things. Calm down, man.

[SkullandBonesmember]

searanox wrote...

Sex and action are usually used to market to a core male audience, since they are both things that have a broad appeal.

Romance, on the other hand is different.  Not everyone is interested in romance, because it requires time and investment, and is at odds with the instant gratification sex and action provide gamers.  While I do think that the romance is there to appeal to a particular type of player, I don't think that romance is included in order to increase the game's appeal to the same demographic that would be taken in by raw gunplay, explosions and boobs.

I do definitely agree that the motivations of the characters in Mass Effect are a bit suspect, though at the same time the point about characters being with Shepard either due to romance or butt-saving oversimplifies things a bit.  Consider: several characters partner with Shepard in Mass Effect 2 because they have nothing to lose, are being paid a lot, or are old friends.  In Mass Effect, about half the squadmates are military and thus obligated to follow Shepard.  The other members all have interests in either stopping the Reapers or studying the Protheans, and in fact, Wrex has the weakest justification for teaming up with Shepard (basically, he just wants action - he only develops other reasons until well into the game, around Virmire).

Exactly what I was saying. +1

Also, since you refuse to read the thread SW, one more quote from Snake Eyes-Joe NInja-

No. Take the poll of what interests people the most about DA:O, and the HUGE winner is the interactions and romance.

Bioware games are amazing, not for their gameplay, which is always good. Not for their visuals, which are always great. They are amazing for the experience they create. Like no other company, I feel that Bioware can create an experience the likes of which was FANTASY years ago.

For many of us, gaming is an escape from our real lives, to something better and adventurous, even if it is only for a few hours, and even if it is only a game. This experience gives you another outlet, another life that is completely your own; Your Shepard, saving the galaxy your way. The love interests are part of that experience.

Many people, myself included, wish they, for just a brief moment, could live the life of adventure, action, humor and romanticism that heroes often lead, having unique allies AND love interests. It is all part of the experience.

Do I prefer ME to real life? Of course not. I know, just like everyone else here (hopefully/probably) does, that it is JUST A GAME. I'm a teacher, beginning his own website, with a loving family, a roof over his head, a car, a beautiful, fun, understanding girlfriend, great friends and a loyal and fun dog. I have a great life. Do I still like to kick back with some beer, hang out with friends and play a video game? Yes.

Love interests are part of the experience we get when we play a Mass Effect game, let alone a Bioware game. The LIs do not add animosity or conflict to the game, or even to these forums, but the crazed fanatics, so to speak, do. However, this in and of itself is just a demonstration of just how connected people are to the characters, and the characters who they find themselves attracted to on a role-playing level. This is the extension of all the D&D games out there, with just so much more presentation, that it is completely understandable to get worked up, but admittedly, some people take it too far.

Is that the games fault? Is it a case of self-sabotage on the part of the developers for creating the LIs in the game? Of course not. As I have stated, Mass Effect is first and foremost a ROLE PLAYING GAME, and LIs are part of that role, to help you feel connected. Sadly, some people take that connection too far, but it is not a case of games being ruined. If anything, it just goes to show just how into the game people are, which can hardly be considered a fault.

[fortunesque]

bjdbwea wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

I don't know if I ought to start a new thread about it, though. I'll just get trolled and gifed to death by the "YOU CAN LIKE IT OR YOU CAN GET OUT" people that seem to be rampant on these forums.

Of course, but so what? Some people will also agree with you. Voicing your opinion is the only thing you can do in the hopes of getting a better ME 3. If not, I agree that we have to vote with the wallet. I will also not buy ME 3 if it doesn't improve.

But the chances that the developers read this thread - and find your post within - are really small. I'm not saying everyone should start a new thread to just say "I liked it" or "I didn't", but your post is well worth of its own thread, I think. And I want to encourage everyone else who might be just reading this thread, to make your own voice heard too. Don't be discouraged by the predictable posts from people who somehow can't accept different opinions about a game they happened to enjoy.

Maybe I'll do it; I'll save it in a document for another day.

But I rarely go out into the forums to post. I find them incredibly hostile toward anyone that has a differing opinion.

[searanox]

fortunesque wrote...

Maybe I'll do it; I'll save it in a document for another day.

But I rarely go out into the forums to post. I find them incredibly hostile toward anyone that has a differing opinion.

Man, you should stay away from comment threads on sites like Joystiq and Kotaku.  Post an opinion that isn't pandering to the majority, isn't a stupid meme reference, or is in any way lengthy and well thought-out?  You just got downvoted!

What's even funnier is when you point this out to them and continue to get flamed and downvoted.  It's like they don't even care that they're as stupid as they are.  Why haven't we nuked the world, again?

Modifié par searanox, 05 juin 2010 - 04:04 .

[ShepardWrex]

searanox wrote...

I think you're making a mistake here.

Sex and action are usually used to market to a core male audience, since they are both things that have a broad appeal.

Romance, on the other hand is different.  Not everyone is interested in romance, because it requires time and investment, and is at odds with the instant gratification sex and action provide gamers.  While I do think that the romance is there to appeal to a particular type of player, I don't think that romance is included in order to increase the game's appeal to the same demographic that would be taken in by raw gunplay, explosions and boobs.

I do definitely agree that the motivations of the characters in Mass Effect are a bit suspect, though at the same time the point about characters being with Shepard either due to romance or butt-saving oversimplifies things a bit.  Consider: several characters partner with Shepard in Mass Effect 2 because they have nothing to lose, are being paid a lot, or are old friends.  In Mass Effect, about half the squadmates are military and thus obligated to follow Shepard.  The other members all have interests in either stopping the Reapers or studying the Protheans, and in fact, Wrex has the weakest justification for teaming up with Shepard (basically, he just wants action - he only develops other reasons until well into the game, around Virmire).

And how much time does someone "invest" in this "romance"? Last I checked you can get most characters to say almost everything without having to seduce them like Female Shepard on Jacob.

Fanfiction and fanart does not make up for all the empty dialog between Shepard and their squadies.

[fortunesque]

searanox wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

Maybe I'll do it; I'll save it in a document for another day.

But I rarely go out into the forums to post. I find them incredibly hostile toward anyone that has a differing opinion.

Man, you should stay away from comment threads on sites like Joystiq and Kotaku.  Post an opinion that isn't pandering to the majority, isn't a stupid meme reference, or is in any way lengthy and well thought-out?  You just got downvoted!

I don't bother with many sites outside of here...

Then again, I was an open Kaidan fan on the old ME forums. That was... an experience... <_<

[ShepardWrex]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

[u][i][b]No. Take the poll of what interests people the most about DA:O, and the HUGE winner is the interactions and romance.

And how many people spend WAAAAAAAAAY too much time ogling a single character?

But sure, invest all the time you want drooling over your beloved characters. Just like people who don't close their mouths to stop drooling while they "omgz SHOOT" stuff.

What a bunch of EA/BW apologists.

[fortunesque]

ShepardWrex wrote...

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

[u][i][b]No. Take the poll of what interests people the most about DA:O, and the HUGE winner is the interactions and romance.

And how many people spend WAAAAAAAAAY too much time ogling a single character?

But sure, invest all the time you want drooling over your beloved characters. Just like people who don't close their mouths to stop drooling while they "omgz SHOOT" stuff.

What a bunch of EA/BW apologists.

So why do you play Bioware games at all, then? Haven't they always had some degree of "romance" in them?

[Pocketgb]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

"No. Take the poll of what interests people the most about DA:O, and the HUGE winner is the interactions and romance."

Now I may be taking this out of context since I'm a bit busy, but I feel that the reasons for that is because DA:O had crap for a storyline.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 05 juin 2010 - 04:12 .

[Kalfear]

ShepardWrex wrote...

Calculatrice wrote...

ShepardWrex wrote...

It's against the rules to say the truth?

Why do people get so uptight when I say that romances, sex n' shooters are for the horny teenager crowd? That's exactly who EA is marketing the game for!

So obvious yet people are so blind.

LIsten, you can rant all you want, but that won't change anything. If you dislike Bioware's game, then don't play it, and go play such games as gears of war, or Dragon age, or whatever such games you have preference to. Just don't go badmouthing a game on a support and discussion forum full of people who have played and liked the game. This may be a discussion of opinions on what Mass Effect 2 did wrong, but nobody said it was for ranting about how romance and mechanics have destroyed the entire experience. Calm down, this isn't a highschool tech club, or 4Chan, and we are not at the level of yelling about things on an internet forum like children.

Romance and shooter mechanics are EXACTLY what ruined Mass Effect in order to cater to the younger generation and generate sales.

It's what people BUY the game for.

Im confused, Romance and shooter mechanics ruined the game? 

Let handle Shooter mechanics: They didnt actually ruin the game, what ruined the game was the cuting of RPG elements, not the addition of shooter mechanics.
If the crew that did ME2 had treate ME1 with some much deserved respect and kept the RPG elements that worked so well in ME1 while ADDING the new combat system, Bioware wouldnt of had to buy reveiws early on, this game would have kicked arse for everyone involved.
So saying shooter mechanics addition is wrong, just wrong!

now for romance. Romance is a staple of traditional RPGs and a needed aspect for the game. And before you say its for kids, im pushing 45 years old, thank you very much.
Romances in game add to the immersiveness and emotion of the game and deliver even more backstory for the main plot!
Romances, done right, are a fantastic thing in a RPG and I pray no one ever listens to someone saying they not needed.

Now the problem with ME2 are the romances are flat and uninteresting. The EASIEST (but maybe not best) way to fix this was to make the visual scene more adult orientated and yes nudity acheives that goal!
A better way however is to develop full characters you can explore and uncover and develop REAL relationships with.
ME1 for example had a bit of romance story arch in every Ashley encounter when you spoke to her, so by the time you romanced here in a FANTASTIC love scene you felt a connection to her. With Liara you watched Liara stumble around trying to express her feelings but never really succeeding until you finaly came togather in anouther FANTASTIC love scene!

The problem with ME2 is you really didnt learn a hell of alot about the LI characters beyond a single storyline (Imprisoned and escape for Jack, father and sister for Miranda). You didnt learn what they beleived in, what they liked, the important stuff and in the end when you picked one you were offered up a very bland and generic Love scene (can it be called that???) so there was no emotional connection found (except for those so intent on liking a character they project their real life feelings on the situation, thats a totally different issue and problem however).

Romance and Shooter mechanics didnt kill ME2, lack of romances and to few RPG elements killed ME2. 

[ShepardWrex]

fortunesque wrote...

ShepardWrex wrote...

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

[u][i][b]No. Take the poll of what interests people the most about DA:O, and the HUGE winner is the interactions and romance.

And how many people spend WAAAAAAAAAY too much time ogling a single character?

But sure, invest all the time you want drooling over your beloved characters. Just like people who don't close their mouths to stop drooling while they "omgz SHOOT" stuff.

What a bunch of EA/BW apologists.

So why do you play Bioware games at all, then? Haven't they always had some degree of "romance" in them?

Because someone told me that ME1 and ME2 was better than GoW2.

They fail.

[fortunesque]

ShepardWrex wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

ShepardWrex wrote...

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

[u][i][b]No. Take the poll of what interests people the most about DA:O, and the HUGE winner is the interactions and romance.

And how many people spend WAAAAAAAAAY too much time ogling a single character?

But sure, invest all the time you want drooling over your beloved characters. Just like people who don't close their mouths to stop drooling while they "omgz SHOOT" stuff.

What a bunch of EA/BW apologists.

So why do you play Bioware games at all, then? Haven't they always had some degree of "romance" in them?

Because someone told me that ME1 and ME2 was better than GoW2.

They fail.

And there's the disconnect.

If you don't like the Mass Effect series, they why are you here?

[ShepardWrex]

Kalfear wrote...

Im confused, Romance and shooter mechanics ruined the game? 

Let handle Shooter mechanics: They didnt actually ruin the game, what ruined the game was the cuting of RPG elements, not the addition of shooter mechanics.
If the crew that did ME2 had treate ME1 with some much deserved respect and kept the RPG elements that worked so well in ME1 while ADDING the new combat system, Bioware wouldnt of had to buy reveiws early on, this game would have kicked arse for everyone involved.
So saying shooter mechanics addition is wrong, just wrong!

now for romance. Romance is a staple of traditional RPGs and a needed aspect for the game. And before you say its for kids, im pushing 45 years old, thank you very much.
Romances in game add to the immersiveness and emotion of the game and deliver even more backstory for the main plot!
Romances, done right, are a fantastic thing in a RPG and I pray no one ever listens to someone saying they not needed.

They are NOT necessary whatsoever. They take away from the main plot just as much as your "no RPG elements" takes away from the gameplay. Being able to romance anyone you want is far from immersive - it's just pure fan service.

EA not only bought reviews to hype up ME1 and ME2, but they also bought whoever reported that ME sex scandal story. Brilliant marketing on their part! Any random gamer falls for sex scenes, no matter how short they are.

Now the problem with ME2 are the romances are flat and uninteresting. The EASIEST (but maybe not best) way to fix this was to make the visual scene more adult orientated and yes nudity acheives that goal!

This is EXACTLY my point. You're making real gamers look worse.

A better way however is to develop full characters you can explore and uncover and develop REAL relationships with.
ME1 for example had a bit of romance story arch in every Ashley encounter when you spoke to her, so by the time you romanced here in a FANTASTIC love scene you felt a connection to her. With Liara you watched Liara stumble around trying to express her feelings but never really succeeding until you finaly came togather in anouther FANTASTIC love scene!

10 second love scene, woooooooooo

Not.

The problem with ME2 is you really didnt learn a hell of alot about the LI characters beyond a single storyline (Imprisoned and escape for Jack, father and sister for Miranda). You didnt learn what they beleived in, what they liked, the important stuff and in the end when you picked one you were offered up a very bland and generic Love scene (can it be called that???) so there was no emotional connection found (except for those so intent on liking a character they project their real life feelings on the situation, thats a totally different issue and problem however).

Really now? Didn't little Ms. Dialogue Line Counter point out that BS already?

EA only gives a crap about romances because they help SELL games.

Money.

Money.

Money.

How many people here would NOT buy ME3 if their favorite character was thrown aside in ME3?

EXACTLY.

I win.

[ShepardWrex]

fortunesque wrote...

ShepardWrex wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

ShepardWrex wrote...

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

[u][i][b]No. Take the poll of what interests people the most about DA:O, and the HUGE winner is the interactions and romance.

And how many people spend WAAAAAAAAAY too much time ogling a single character?

But sure, invest all the time you want drooling over your beloved characters. Just like people who don't close their mouths to stop drooling while they "omgz SHOOT" stuff.

What a bunch of EA/BW apologists.

So why do you play Bioware games at all, then? Haven't they always had some degree of "romance" in them?

Because someone told me that ME1 and ME2 was better than GoW2.

They fail.

And there's the disconnect.

If you don't like the Mass Effect series, they why are you here?

Read the title of this thread?

[searanox]

ShepardWrex wrote...

And how much time does someone "invest" in this "romance"? Last I checked you can get most characters to say almost everything without having to seduce them like Female Shepard on Jacob.

Fanfiction and fanart does not make up for all the empty dialog between Shepard and their squadies.

I can get blatant sex appeal and action within about ten minutes of playing Mass Effect 2.  Judging by completion statistics, over 50% of gamers never get far enough to even see romances, and that's assuming that they actually bother to talk to their squadmates outside of the main missions, which is also something most players don't do.  This may surprise you, but the majority of people enjoying games don't obsessively canvas them for every last detail.  The people who all the action and boobs will appeal to are the players who make up the most sales, and who will also play the game the least on average.

[ShepardWrex]

searanox wrote...

This may surprise you, but the majority of people enjoying games don't obsessively canvas them for every last detail.  The people who all the action and boobs will appeal to are the players who make up the most sales, and who will also play the game the least on average.

Then how the hell could a thread like this go on for a hundred pages if people other than me weren't canvassing for every last detail?

I never said ME2 was any good, either. Double the romances, half the fun.

[fortunesque]

ShepardWrex wrote...



How many people here would NOT buy ME3 if their favorite character was thrown aside in ME3?

EXACTLY.

I win.

You lose.

Part of the game is about the characters. My favorite character being thrown aside would result in me not buying ME3 because it would be the culmination of a long list of things that were changed that I didn't like about ME2.

Like I said on the last page, there are things that I didn't care about in ME2.

I didn't buy ME1 for the romances, nor did I know about them when I did. I bought it because I heard it was a good game. Having a favorite character doesn't make someone ridiculous; it's similar to having a favorite player on your favorite team.

Besides, many people in this thread have purchased and enjoyed many different games that didn't even have a romance or an option to have a one night stand.

[David Knight]

fortunesque wrote...

ShepardWrex wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

ShepardWrex wrote...

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

[u][i][b]No. Take the poll of what interests people the most about DA:O, and the HUGE winner is the interactions and romance.

And how many people spend WAAAAAAAAAY too much time ogling a single character?

But sure, invest all the time you want drooling over your beloved characters. Just like people who don't close their mouths to stop drooling while they "omgz SHOOT" stuff.

What a bunch of EA/BW apologists.

So why do you play Bioware games at all, then? Haven't they always had some degree of "romance" in them?

Because someone told me that ME1 and ME2 was better than GoW2.

They fail.

And there's the disconnect.

If you don't like the Mass Effect series, they why are you here?

You know, ShepardWrex, I have to agree. Why ARE you here?... I mean, if you dislike the game so much, why waste your time worrying about it? Doesn't seem very healthy... Bah. I should stay away from these threads. I don't understand some of the people in them...

HATERS GONNA HATE!

[ShepardWrex]

fortunesque wrote...

ShepardWrex wrote...



How many people here would NOT buy ME3 if their favorite character was thrown aside in ME3?

EXACTLY.

I win.

You lose.

Part of the game is about the characters. My favorite character being thrown aside would result in me not buying ME3 because it would be the culmination of a long list of things that were changed that I didn't like about ME2.

Like I said on the last page, there are things that I didn't care about in ME2.

I didn't buy ME1 for the romances, nor did I know about them when I did. I bought it because I heard it was a good game. Having a favorite character doesn't make someone ridiculous; it's similar to having a favorite player on your favorite team.

Besides, many people in this thread have purchased and enjoyed many different games that didn't even have a romance or an option to have a one night stand.

You're telling me the romances aren't about the money after publicly announcing - like many people on THIS FORUM - that you won't buy the game if your romance doesn't get justice in the next game?

There's no need to worry, Electronic Arts can make tons of money off people like you wagging your tail to the sight of your favorite romances.

How about they pay BW to make a ME4 and save the LIs for that game? And then the next?

EA is freaking brilliant.