Ce sujet est fermé
ShepWrex, I'm kind of scared by you...
...Last I checked, the romances made up MAYBE 7-8 percent (guesstimate). The rest of the game has nothing to do with the romances, which are only added to increase immersion. If you don't like them, don't play them.
Disappointment With Mass Effect 2? An Open Discussion.
Débuté par
Darth Drago
, févr. 27 2010 11:26
Retour en haut
#4277
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:34
ShepardWrex
-
- Members
- 149 messages
Want to explain why ME2 got such endearing praise then?JohnnyDollar wrote...
You have sources to back these claims up? Or is this opinion?ShepardWrex wrote...
EA not only bought reviews to hype up ME1 and ME2, but they also bought whoever reported that ME sex scandal story. Brilliant marketing on their part! Any random gamer falls for sex scenes, no matter how short they are.
Actually I know it is your opinion, but your stating it as if it is a proven fact, when it is not.
That's the only reason I can think of.
#4278
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:35
ShepardWrex
-
- Members
- 149 messages
7-8 percent that could be used on another mission.David Knight wrote...
ShepWrex, I'm kind of scared by you...
...Last I checked, the romances made up MAYBE 7-8 percent (guesstimate). The rest of the game has nothing to do with the romances, which are only added to increase immersion. If you don't like them, don't play them.
How about the mission where Sheppy gets materials for Mordin to test? Where did the collector bug come from?
PLOT HOLE.
But who cares if you can romance your heart out in the meantime.
#4279
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:36
David Knight
-
- Members
- 96 messages
ShepardWrex wrote...
Want to explain why ME2 got such endearing praise then?JohnnyDollar wrote...
You have sources to back these claims up? Or is this opinion?ShepardWrex wrote...
EA not only bought reviews to hype up ME1 and ME2, but they also bought whoever reported that ME sex scandal story. Brilliant marketing on their part! Any random gamer falls for sex scenes, no matter how short they are.
Actually I know it is your opinion, but your stating it as if it is a proven fact, when it is not.
That's the only reason I can think of.
Um... maybe because most people liked ME2? I'm sorry to say it, but the game got good reviews, and the majority of people who played the game liked it. You know, when things are done well and are entertaining, they generally receive praise. Odd, isn't it?
#4280
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:37
David Knight
-
- Members
- 96 messages
ShepardWrex wrote...
7-8 percent that could be used on another mission.David Knight wrote...
ShepWrex, I'm kind of scared by you...
...Last I checked, the romances made up MAYBE 7-8 percent (guesstimate). The rest of the game has nothing to do with the romances, which are only added to increase immersion. If you don't like them, don't play them.
How about the mission where Sheppy gets materials for Mordin to test? Where did the collector bug come from?
PLOT HOLE.
But who cares if you can romance your heart out in the meantime.
Oh, sweet Jesus, here I go...
Plot Hole? Really? Are you honestly going to pick fights about where they got the damn materials or the BUG?
Quick, give me a favorite movie of yours. No, I'm serious. Name it. It'll make sense in a sec.
#4281
Guest_worm_burner_*
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:38
Guest_worm_burner_*
Guest_worm_burner_*
-
- Guests
fortunesque wrote...
Well, I'll post here in the spirit of the OP.
I liked ME1 but I didn't like ME2.
Things that I liked ME1:
1. Character builds- I had to think and plan out how I would build my character and my team. There were many skills to choose from and I found great pleasure in killing my enemies in a multitude of different ways. Biotics were extremely fun to play with; seeing enemies flying all over the place was super fun. I also had the opportunity to have an okay selection of different kinds of armor, weapons and upgrades for both.
2. The team- Shepard's team was diverse yet it was manageable. I felt like I got to personally know every one of them through the conversations. The romance that I played built up very nicely as well. I felt like it was a mutual coming together rather than one side hitting on the other to initiate something. Non-romance characters had interesting dialogue as well.
3. The story- You can play the missions in a variety of different orders. With each mission, you unravel another part of Saren's plan and find out how deep the mess is that you're getting into.
4. The world- The hub worlds for the missions had fluid transitions from one area to
the next; there was always an elevator/doorway or a hallway/path or a
set of stairs that led you to your destination. Most loading screens were disguised as something that was in the world itself.
Interestingly enough, the things that I liked in ME1 were the very things in ME2 that I didn't like:
1. Character builds- I didn't have to put much planning into my build at all, since I had a very limited list of skills to choose from. Ammo upgrades were turned into skills, which made no sense to me. I want to know how having freezing rounds constitutes a skill such as being able to hack an AI or being able to throw something biotically. Shouldn't ammo be relegated to an inventory?
Biotics were made into a pale shade of what they used to be. Instead, a "mage" sort of class has to rely on a weapon during a shared cooldown time between all of their skills. Also, their skills cannot work in some instances, forcing the player to rely on a gun for combat. Yes, I know they made the guns and cover system more like mainstream TPS games. Some folks find this to be an improvement, but I find it to be an annoyance that a mage/rogue class has been turned into a class that has a weapons reliance.
Instead of improving the inventory and keeping it organized, it was done away with entirely. Other than being able to repaint about 2-3 similar looking armors with a shade of color that would look better on a car, the customization options are very minimal.
2. The team- The devs have stated in multiple interviews that there's 30% more dialogue in this game. What isn't mentioned is that there are double the amount of squadmates. Then there's the multitude of cameos, npcs, and clickables that can be factored into the equation as well. Simply put, this does not mean that the squadmates have more dialogue with Shepard in ME2.
Picking up a bunch of squadmates and doing a special quest for all of them seemed like a chore. There were 12 of them and every last one of them had a dire problem, most likely associated with daddy issues. Then when you get to the romance dialogue and turn them down, they completely shut off. Just because I did a quest for the character does not mean that I will feel closer to them. Indeed, quite a few of the character loyalty quests were filled with shooting and a few dialogue choices here and there.
This isn't to say that I didn't like the characters. I liked a few of them, but I didn't feel half as close to them as I did to the ME1 squad. I believe this is because I didn't have the chance to interact with them as much as the ME1 crew.
3. The story- The story of ME2 is based on recruiting a bunch of characters and gaining their trust. It feels like the Collector stuff is a sub-plot. When you learn about the Collectors, you get information in three key points: Freedom's Progress, Horizon, and the Collector Ship. That's out of 22 character missions. There's a major plot imbalance in this game. Instead of discovering what's going on with the Collectors in small chunks, it's dumped on you in a huge mission breakthrough.
ME1 had consistent missions with consistent discoveries throughout. ME2 has 3/25 missions devoted to what is supposed to be the plot. When I find that I don't care too much about the team, it's much less motivating for me to play the game since the game's main thrust is supposed to be the characters.
4. The world- Exploration was cut, as were elevators, walking out of the Normandy's airlock to a docking bay, etc. Loading screens weren't disguised. Instead of riding in an elevator, we get the treat of watching a loading screen with an elevator on it. On top of it all, there is a gigantic "Mission Complete" screen after each mission, rather than having some form of transport pick the crew up or having a summary/debrief meeting with the whole team. Everything seemed choppy and disconnected.
Summary:
With how ME2 turned out and from the way it was marketed, I wouldn't have gotten it if it didn't have the Mass Effect label on it. Everything I loved about the first game was entirely scrapped or turned into a pale imitation of what it once was. Instead of the game that I loved, I find a lot of TPS shooter combat with a multitude of characters that I feel no connection to.
I've lost count of the number of times I've played through ME1; I've gotten every single achievement in it. With ME2, I've played through twice and haven't cared to pick it up again.
Great post that I completely agree 100%. Just bringing it to the next page.:happy:
#4282
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:38
Darth Drago
-
- Members
- 1 136 messages
Good question.fortunesque wrote...
ShepardWrex wrote...
And how many people spend WAAAAAAAAAY too much time ogling a single character?SkullandBonesmember wrote...
[u][i][b]No. Take the poll of what interests people the most about DA:O, and the HUGE winner is the interactions and romance.
But sure, invest all the time you want drooling over your beloved characters. Just like people who don't close their mouths to stop drooling while they "omgz SHOOT" stuff.
What a bunch of EA/BW apologists.
So why do you play Bioware games at all, then? Haven't they always had some degree of "romance" in them?
KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2 certainly had a romance subplots. I’m not sure about the PC games though.
They are completely optional so why is there such a fuss?
#4283
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:40
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
-
- Guests
I don't put hardly anything past hardly anybody. I am just a stickler for when I see assumptions or possibilites stated as if they are facts.ShepardWrex wrote...
Want to explain why ME2 got such endearing praise then?JohnnyDollar wrote...
You have sources to back these claims up? Or is this opinion?ShepardWrex wrote...
EA not only bought reviews to hype up ME1 and ME2, but they also bought whoever reported that ME sex scandal story. Brilliant marketing on their part! Any random gamer falls for sex scenes, no matter how short they are.
Actually I know it is your opinion, but your stating it as if it is a proven fact, when it is not.
That's the only reason I can think of.
#4284
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:40
SkullandBonesmember
-
- Members
- 1 009 messages
fortunesque wrote...
Then again, I was an open Kaidan fan on the old ME forums. That was... an experience... <_<
Just LMAO. Not at you but I can relate for both here and the original boards. The Kaidan hate is just surreal.
#4285
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:41
ShepardWrex
-
- Members
- 149 messages
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1482455/David Knight wrote...
ShepardWrex wrote...
7-8 percent that could be used on another mission.David Knight wrote...
ShepWrex, I'm kind of scared by you...
...Last I checked, the romances made up MAYBE 7-8 percent (guesstimate). The rest of the game has nothing to do with the romances, which are only added to increase immersion. If you don't like them, don't play them.
How about the mission where Sheppy gets materials for Mordin to test? Where did the collector bug come from?
PLOT HOLE.
But who cares if you can romance your heart out in the meantime.
Oh, sweet Jesus, here I go...
Plot Hole? Really? Are you honestly going to pick fights about where they got the damn materials or the BUG?
Quick, give me a favorite movie of yours. No, I'm serious. Name it. It'll make sense in a sec.
See what I did there?
#4286
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:41
fortunesque
-
- Members
- 7 538 messages
ShepardWrex wrote...
You're telling me the romances aren't about the money after publicly announcing - like many people on THIS FORUM - that you won't buy the game if your romance doesn't get justice in the next game?fortunesque wrote...
ShepardWrex wrote...
How many people here would NOT buy ME3 if their favorite character was thrown aside in ME3?
EXACTLY.
I win.
You lose.
Part of the game is about the characters. My favorite character being thrown aside would result in me not buying ME3 because it would be the culmination of a long list of things that were changed that I didn't like about ME2.
Like I said on the last page, there are things that I didn't care about in ME2.
I didn't buy ME1 for the romances, nor did I know about them when I did. I bought it because I heard it was a good game. Having a favorite character doesn't make someone ridiculous; it's similar to having a favorite player on your favorite team.
Besides, many people in this thread have purchased and enjoyed many different games that didn't even have a romance or an option to have a one night stand.
There's no need to worry, Electronic Arts can make tons of money off people like you wagging your tail to the sight of your favorite romances.
How about they pay BW to make a ME4 and save the LIs for that game? And then the next?
EA is freaking brilliant.
With the original ME1 romances it is a different matter altogether. If they aren't done justice in ME3, many ME1 LI fans won't get it because the devs made promises about the characters.
In my case, it's much more of a matter of principle as it is with a large portion of ME1 LI fans.
The devs have also repeatedly stated that Mass Effect is a single player game and will always be a single player game multiple times in multiple threads. Then we see small cookie crumbs of dlc that they charge everyone a small amount of money for.
It's all about money to them, and if a promise is broken, then I withold my money. But people like you can't seem to grasp this concept. You feel like you have to demean people because they don't share the same opinion as you.
#4287
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:42
FsDxRAGE
-
- Members
- 8 190 messages
*raises arms*
What is going on in here?
What is going on in here?
#4288
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:42
searanox
-
- Members
- 714 messages
It's also a logical fallacy to assume that resources spent making a game are somehow universally applicable; that is, that the 7-8 percent of content directly translates to 7-8 percent of resources. The codex entries are very important for some players because of how much they add to the credibility of the game's universe, yet they also represent an extremely small amount of work in terms of time/money spent. The plot hole isn't necessarily there because there are romances in the game, and frankly Mass Effect 2 has structural issues and plot holes that go far beyond what could have been addressed by cutting romances.ShepardWrex wrote...
7-8 percent that could be used on another mission.
How about the mission where Sheppy gets materials for Mordin to test? Where did the collector bug come from?
PLOT HOLE.
But who cares if you can romance your heart out in the meantime.
Ultimately, the romance accounts for... oh I don't know, maybe 25 hours of writing, plus the voice acting, plus the programming, plus the creation of dialogue scenes, and perhaps some unique animations. While that's a substantial amount of work, it's also not nearly as much as, say, creating an entire new mission to fill in a gap in the story. That something as small as "where did Mordin get the bug from" got through, despite the fact that it could be fixed with literally one line of dialogue, suggests that it was likely just a small slip-up left over as an artifact of a much larger piece of cut content.
Modifié par searanox, 05 juin 2010 - 04:44 .
#4289
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:42
JeanLuc761
-
- Members
- 6 480 messages
I bought the game for neither the shooter mechanics or the romance subplot. I bought it because I love the story, I love the characters, and I love the universe.ShepardWrex wrote...
Romance and shooter mechanics are EXACTLY what ruined Mass Effect in order to cater to the younger generation and generate sales.
It's what people BUY the game for.
What does that make me?
#4290
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:43
ShepardWrex
-
- Members
- 149 messages
So if EA's calling the shots and marketing the game they desparately want to make money off of, why WOULDN'T they cleverly advertise sex scenes in their games?JohnnyDollar wrote...
I don't put hardly anything past hardly anybody. I am just a stickler for when I see assumptions or possibilites stated as if they are facts.ShepardWrex wrote...
Want to explain why ME2 got such endearing praise then?JohnnyDollar wrote...
You have sources to back these claims up? Or is this opinion?ShepardWrex wrote...
EA not only bought reviews to hype up ME1 and ME2, but they also bought whoever reported that ME sex scandal story. Brilliant marketing on their part! Any random gamer falls for sex scenes, no matter how short they are.
Actually I know it is your opinion, but your stating it as if it is a proven fact, when it is not.
That's the only reason I can think of.
Why would any publisher NOT want to do that while they're showcasing their simplistic gameplay elements?
#4291
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:44
ShepardWrex
-
- Members
- 149 messages
A TALImancer.JeanLuc761 wrote...
I bought the game for neither the shooter mechanics or the romance subplot. I bought it because I love the story, I love the characters, and I love the universe.ShepardWrex wrote...
Romance and shooter mechanics are EXACTLY what ruined Mass Effect in order to cater to the younger generation and generate sales.
It's what people BUY the game for.
What does that make me?
#4292
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:44
FsDxRAGE
-
- Members
- 8 190 messages
*headdesk*ShepardWrex wrote...
A TALImancer.JeanLuc761 wrote...
I bought the game for neither the shooter mechanics or the romance subplot. I bought it because I love the story, I love the characters, and I love the universe.ShepardWrex wrote...
Romance and shooter mechanics are EXACTLY what ruined Mass Effect in order to cater to the younger generation and generate sales.
It's what people BUY the game for.
What does that make me?
What?
#4293
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:45
ShepardWrex
-
- Members
- 149 messages
You are the one not grasping this concept. You're playing right into their hands.fortunesque wrote...
With the original ME1 romances it is a different matter altogether. If they aren't done justice in ME3, many ME1 LI fans won't get it because the devs made promises about the characters.
In my case, it's much more of a matter of principle as it is with a large portion of ME1 LI fans.
The devs have also repeatedly stated that Mass Effect is a single player game and will always be a single player game multiple times in multiple threads. Then we see small cookie crumbs of dlc that they charge everyone a small amount of money for.
It's all about money to them, and if a promise is broken, then I withold my money. But people like you can't seem to grasp this concept. You feel like you have to demean people because they don't share the same opinion as you.
Who's to say that they didn't whip the devs into making all those promises as part of their hype hype hype machine?
#4294
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:45
JeanLuc761
-
- Members
- 6 480 messages
Point being? The romance adds considerable depth to the characters and I appreciate its inclusion, but it's not why I bought the game.ShepardWrex wrote...
A TALImancer.JeanLuc761 wrote...
I bought the game for neither the shooter mechanics or the romance subplot. I bought it because I love the story, I love the characters, and I love the universe.ShepardWrex wrote...
Romance and shooter mechanics are EXACTLY what ruined Mass Effect in order to cater to the younger generation and generate sales.
It's what people BUY the game for.
What does that make me?
#4296
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:47
searanox
-
- Members
- 714 messages
I'd like to say that I have something valuable to contribute to the discussion in this thread, but I think I realised a few posts back that there is absolutely nothing productive going on here, and that anything I post will be ignored by the people that it is directed towards.
#4297
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:47
ShepardWrex
-
- Members
- 149 messages
So the "RPG elements" efforts weren't streamlined into making ME2 a more mediocre shooter? News to me.searanox wrote...
It's also a logical fallacy to assume that resources spent making a game are somehow universally applicable; that is, that the 7-8 percent of content directly translates to 7-8 percent of resources. The codex entries are very important for some players because of how much they add to the credibility of the game's universe, yet they also represent an extremely small amount of work in terms of time/money spent. The plot hole isn't necessarily there because there are romances in the game, and frankly Mass Effect 2 has structural issues and plot holes that go far beyond what could have been addressed by cutting romances.ShepardWrex wrote...
7-8 percent that could be used on another mission.
How about the mission where Sheppy gets materials for Mordin to test? Where did the collector bug come from?
PLOT HOLE.
But who cares if you can romance your heart out in the meantime.
Tell me then, why are there so many plot holes? Was that part of their marketing campaign too? The romances sure don't seem to have plot holes.
So you're suggesting that the missions in ME2 are too COMPLEX to create an entire new mission instead of more romance?Ultimately, the romance accounts for... oh I don't know, maybe 25 hours of writing, plus the voice acting, plus the programming, plus the creation of dialogue scenes, and perhaps some unique animations. While that's a substantial amount of work, it's also not nearly as much as, say, creating an entire new mission to fill in a gap in the story. That something as small as "where did Mordin get the bug from" got through, despite the fact that it could be fixed with literally one line of dialogue, suggests that it was likely just a small slip-up left over as an artifact of a much larger piece of cut content.
Don't make me laugh.
No wait, already am.
#4298
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:48
David Knight
-
- Members
- 96 messages
ShepardWrex wrote...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1482455/David Knight wrote...
ShepardWrex wrote...
7-8 percent that could be used on another mission.David Knight wrote...
ShepWrex, I'm kind of scared by you...
...Last I checked, the romances made up MAYBE 7-8 percent (guesstimate). The rest of the game has nothing to do with the romances, which are only added to increase immersion. If you don't like them, don't play them.
How about the mission where Sheppy gets materials for Mordin to test? Where did the collector bug come from?
PLOT HOLE.
But who cares if you can romance your heart out in the meantime.
Oh, sweet Jesus, here I go...
Plot Hole? Really? Are you honestly going to pick fights about where they got the damn materials or the BUG?
Quick, give me a favorite movie of yours. No, I'm serious. Name it. It'll make sense in a sec.
See what I did there?
Um... clever?
Alright, I'll just pick one then since you're being uncooperative. Look at, er... Avatar (I thought it was kind of lame, but a lot of people liked it). You want a plot hole? Explain to me how Jake Sully goes to a coastline, a plain, and other types of generalized terrain to gather and army and makes it back in time to be ready to defend against the bad guys.
Hell, that type of error is easy to make. Happens all the time. In the new Star Trek movie, the Enterprise gets from Earth to Vulcan in about a few hours or even minutes. Then it takes them a hell of a long time to get back to Earth for the final battle.
My point is that these types of plot holes are just there and no big deal. In ME2, is it even a plot hole? I'm pretty sure Cerb could supply the materials, and do you really want to see where he got the bug? It's not that important, which was why it wasn't shown.
#4299
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:48
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
-
- Guests
Your missing my point. I am not arguing with you about EA's marketing strategy. I am only saying that if you state an assumption or a possibility as if it is fact, then you have to prove it, or you have no credibilty. Otherwise state it correctly.ShepardWrex wrote...
So if EA's calling the shots and marketing the game they desparately want to make money off of, why WOULDN'T they cleverly advertise sex scenes in their games?JohnnyDollar wrote...
I don't put hardly anything past hardly anybody. I am just a stickler for when I see assumptions or possibilites stated as if they are facts.ShepardWrex wrote...
Want to explain why ME2 got such endearing praise then?JohnnyDollar wrote...
You have sources to back these claims up? Or is this opinion?ShepardWrex wrote...
EA not only bought reviews to hype up ME1 and ME2, but they also bought whoever reported that ME sex scandal story. Brilliant marketing on their part! Any random gamer falls for sex scenes, no matter how short they are.
Actually I know it is your opinion, but your stating it as if it is a proven fact, when it is not.
That's the only reason I can think of.
Why would any publisher NOT want to do that while they're showcasing their simplistic gameplay elements?
#4300
Posté 05 juin 2010 - 04:48
ShepardWrex
-
- Members
- 149 messages
Say that AFTER tali gets cameo status in ME3.JeanLuc761 wrote...
Point being? The romance adds considerable depth to the characters and I appreciate its inclusion, but it's not why I bought the game.ShepardWrex wrote...
A TALImancer.JeanLuc761 wrote...
I bought the game for neither the shooter mechanics or the romance subplot. I bought it because I love the story, I love the characters, and I love the universe.ShepardWrex wrote...
Romance and shooter mechanics are EXACTLY what ruined Mass Effect in order to cater to the younger generation and generate sales.
It's what people BUY the game for.
What does that make me?
