10273 réponses à ce sujet

[finnithe]

tonnactus wrote...

finnithe wrote...

I don't think they handled the resistance as well as they could have either. I would rather have biotics have lessened affects on enemies (much like Singularity does). I would have been fine with some knockdown effects for protected enemies. Still, that's a pretty bad analogy, especially since there aren't really any mages in this game.

Biotics are essentially mages. Adept are pure,vanguards are battle mages. And in fantasy games,mages,player or enemies nor only use staffs but also always at least some daggers.(in oblivion). I addition to their spells,not as a requirement to destroy the armor of an enemy first,what is just incredible stupid. In the first game,the purpose of biotic powers were crowd control,not to be just some fancy finishers. Biotics worked on all enemies(stasis works on drones).
A biotic was a biotic on all difficulties and against all enemies. Now ,on hardcore and insanity and against enemies like the heavy mech and the geth prime, they are just gimped soldiers. Nothing more. This is not balance. Otherwise such enemies should also have attacks that blocks adrenaline rush or cloak...

The rage on this forums would be enourmos.(and it would be right so)

Adepts and engineers not even get something special on the collector ship that improve their core abilities like a special omnitool or a bioamp. Only some lame additional weapon training.

I think you're discounting the SMG and Heavy Pistol as weapons. They're both pretty powerful, especially with the Locust from the Kasumi DLC. Even then, the difference in power between these weapons and the AR/Sniper Rifle/Shotgun that the gun-orientated classes use is not so great especially since the Adept and Engineer have shutdown abilities like Singularity and Combat Drone. You realize that mages staff attacks did much less damage when compared to the guns that the Adept and Engineer use. 

You guys still haven't addressed the balancing issue a weapon cooldown system creates. Specifically that most people will end up using just one weapon, which doesn't really make for challenging gameplay. 

What do you mean with that?? Its challenging to switch to the heavy pistol and inferno ammo if an enemy has armor??? Maybee you mean strategic( in the very limited way of paper,rock,scissors).

Most people use one weapon anyway.(most people play as an soldier and use the revenant/widow)

My fear is that if there was only a cooldown system, people wouldn't have to use their powers, because using weapons like Sniper Rifles, shotguns and AR's would be much more expedient, especially since these weapons are available to anyone once people have accessed the Collector Ship mission. 

The only way to fix this would be to really slow down how fast the weapons cool down, but this would itself be a retcon. It would be even worse than the thermal clip retcon because there would be no upside to the tech development. At best, they could employ a hybrid system, but even this wouldn't make sense as the thermal clip system already works.

[Lumikki]

tonnactus wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

In ME1 my infiltrator use only one weapon that's pistol, because that's all what I need in hole game.

So you play basicly an engineer with immunity.Fine.Whats the point? There were a lot of mission where you could really snipe and it make sense, because enemies couldnt get you. Like the ferros skyway and some merc bases. Situation benefits even there. Good reasons, not mostly artificial ones ,like that snipers are effective against armor but weak against shields and barriers. I still doesnt use heavy weapons a lot, because a pistol with inferno ammo seems to be at least as effective as most other heavy weapons against enemies like thresher maws.

Okey remember that Liara mission where you come out from Mako last time and start walking, After few enemies, you are narrow situation where there is some long range sniper enemies doing shooting really far from behind big open area. I shooted them down with PISTOL from really far. I could hardy even see those enemies. Yeah, that would been really good for sniper rifle, but it wasn't required. Pistol is ALL what you need in ME1. So, why put point to something what you don't need. You have your submachine gun (pistol) what what allows you to kill everyting from any distance. Charging Krogan, no problem at all, just hit marksman skill and shoot that down with you submachine gun (pistol)..

Modifié par Lumikki, 05 juin 2010 - 03:54 .

[tonnactus]

finnithe wrote...


I think you're discounting the SMG and Heavy Pistol as weapons.

Absolutly not.But i dont forget the other powers the soldier and infiltrator have.Ammo powers and adrenaline rush/cloak.
The last one even allowed it to make a point blank shot with your weapons at enemies like the heavy mech and get the weapon damage doubled without a big risk of getting killed. And they have weapon damage increases in their class talents.

They're both pretty powerful, especially with the Locust from the Kasumi DLC. Even then, the difference in power between these weapons and the AR/Sniper Rifle/Shotgun that the gun-orientated classes use is not so great especially since the Adept and Engineer have shutdown abilities like Singularity and Combat Drone.

Singularity doesnt work on heavy mechs and geth primes. The combat drone dont affect geth hunters.

You realize that mages staff attacks did much less damage when compared to the guns that the Adept and Engineer use. 

What game? Dragon age? In oblivion,staffs are the strongest weapons together with weapons enchanted with magic effect.


You guys still haven't addressed the balancing issue a weapon cooldown system creates. Specifically that most people will end up using just one weapon, which doesn't really make for challenging gameplay. 

My fear is that if there was only a cooldown system, people wouldn't have to use their powers, because using weapons like Sniper Rifles, shotguns and AR's would be much more expedient, especially since these weapons are available to anyone once people have accessed the Collector Ship mission. 

If biotics/tech went back to the role of crowd control and get the old range back (not 3 m,but 6-8) im sure people would use them too. Especially if enemies could do the same to the player/squad, so weapons alone wouldnt be fast enough to kill them to prevent an attack. Diverse enemy groups are the answer,biotic and techs in everyone of them. And biotics and techs that really deserve to be called so.

[tonnactus]

Lumikki wrote...

Okey remember that Liara mission where you come out from Mako last time and start walking, After few enemies, you are narrow situation where there is some long range sniper enemies doing shooting really far from behind big open area. I shooted them down with PISTOL from really far. I could hardy even see those enemies. .

And you could do it far safer when using crouch and a sniper rifle to kill the sniper and the rocket trooper.Your decision if you did it with the stinger.

[Lumikki]

tonnactus wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Okey remember that Liara mission where you come out from Mako last time and start walking, After few enemies, you are narrow situation where there is some long range sniper enemies doing shooting really far from behind big open area. I shooted them down with PISTOL from really far. I could hardy even see those enemies. .

And you could do it far safer when using crouch and a sniper rifle to kill the sniper and the rocket trooper.Your decision if you did it with the stinger.

Yeah, it was my choise, but you can't do same with ME2. Because you would run out of ammos from one weapon use. Player is actually using multible weapons. In ME1 it's not needed. Also the marksman skill made pistol most heavy damage weapon there is in ME1. Also when You have specter pistol with moded by reduse overheat. The pistol never overheat even how much you use it. The coold down is bigger than heating.

This is not good combat system design. So, when You talk about how skills affected in ME1 combat system, it was not all good. Actually some of skills even destroyed the combat system, like marksman on pistol.

Now ME2 combat system has it's own problem, like looting clips from ground, but two thing they did right. One is that weapons feels like they should be. Pistol feels like pistol and so on. Second is that player is actually using different weapons based different situations. Not just using one weapon to everyting.

Modifié par Lumikki, 05 juin 2010 - 04:16 .

[Dudeman315]

finnithe wrote...

You guys still haven't addressed the balancing issue a weapon cooldown system creates. Specifically that most people will end up using just one weapon, which doesn't really make for challenging gameplay. 

Also I'm pretty sure ShepardWrex is just trolling this thread so could you guys please, please just ignore him or her. It's not hard, just don't press the reply button.

How does this make for more challenging gameplay? (Runout of ammo; Pause: switch to any other weapon; Un-Pause; Fire)
I truly don't understand this argument

[KitsuneRommel]

Terror_K wrote...

Anybody else remember Liberation or Hired Guns? Two RPG's that were sci-fi and shootery and yet still fully-fledged RPGs, predating even Deus Ex.

I never played Liberation but since Hired Guns had multiplayer I think half the people on this forum would not have bought it.

[Lumikki]

Dudeman315 wrote...

finnithe wrote...

You guys still haven't addressed the balancing issue a weapon cooldown system creates. Specifically that most people will end up using just one weapon, which doesn't really make for challenging gameplay. 

Also I'm pretty sure ShepardWrex is just trolling this thread so could you guys please, please just ignore him or her. It's not hard, just don't press the reply button.

How does this make for more challenging gameplay? (Runout of ammo; Pause: switch to any other weapon; Un-Pause; Fire)
I truly don't understand this argument

Maybe challenging isn't the best word. I would use my self more "tactical use of weapons". If player can solve every problem in every situation with one and same weapon, that isn't really good. Better would be that player use different weapons based situations. I don't think it's affecting challenge anyway, but it does make gameplay more monotonic (simplifyed as less variety).

Modifié par Lumikki, 05 juin 2010 - 05:06 .

[KennyRogers]

Orchomene wrote...

KennyRogers wrote...

Pocketgb wrote...

KennyRogers wrote...

3. If you're so much more educated than he is, why can't you spell "Sense" right?

Regardless of what was presented, that was an incredibly douche move.
To the rest of what Kalfear said: Really don't know what to say, since I honestly find much of it too ridiculous to comment on. But I will say that ME1 was also very, very far from perfect, yet still it retained very positive reviews. Maybe Bioware just makes good games...?

Hey, when someone calls someone uneducated, they deserve some degree of douchebaggery. :-P

This is blantantly pityful. For someone like me speaking english as a foreign language, I feel insulted by such argument. Yet I can't really be called uneducated by many, having a PhD, even if I can do some semantic mistakes in english. Try to speak german, french or spanish perfectly before using such arguments.

I'm a Russian-American immigrant.

[Iakus]

Darth Drago wrote...

-How true.

The Mission Complete screen kills it for me right next to those “Press B to end mission” pop ups, especially at the end of Tali‘s loyalty mission. (360 version here)

ME1 played more like a movie you went from one mission to the next seamlessly. In ME2, the entire game is broken up into little missions.

Lets not forget how it also forces you to equip the new weapon you pick up on a level even if you don’t want to use it or how touching a weapons locker will reset all your equipped weapons with whatever ammo you had on them.

What i hate a lot is how everything is practically handed to you as well. Look how conveniently the Normandy 2 is docked at Illium, Omega and the Citadel where you’re a very short walk to who you need to talk to or all of the mission on those hub locations. Look at where all your cameo appearances on Illium are. In ME1 Therum, Ferros, Noveria, Vermire and Ilos you had a long way to go to get to your main quest location.

This.

Sometimes I felt like I was playing Mass Effect for Beginners, or maybe the entire game was one long tutorial (might explain where the story went, actually.)

The  movie analogy is excellent, that's exactly how I thought of ME 1.

About being spoon-fed stuff:  haven't you heard?  exploring is bad 

[tonnactus]

[quote]Lumikki wrote...

Yeah, it was my choise, but you can't do same with ME2. Because you would run out of ammos from one weapon use. Player is actually using multible weapons. In ME1 it's not needed.
[quote]
Then i played a different game, because there some possibilities why the player would need an other weapon:
The first weapon overheat. Even with marksmen and overkill, low level weapons still overheat.

An enemy sabotage your weapon.Tech enemies exists in every main mission Mass Effect had.

[quote]
Now ME2 combat system has it's own problem, like looting clips from ground, but two thing they did right. One is that weapons feels like they should be. Pistol feels like pistol and so on. Second is that player is actually using different weapons based different situations. Not just using one weapon to everyting.
[/quote]

When i get the revenant as a soldier, i didnt use any other weapon at that time.Its the same with the viper(infiltrator) that has enough ammo for whole missions and is even effective against shields.

[KennyRogers]

Are you trying to say Mass Effect 1 never spoon-fed you, or took the easy way out to cover up plot holes?



-Why in the holy mother of god does Shepard carry weapons he has no use for? What's the logic?

-Why do only 4 types of weapons exist in the entire universe?

-Why don't the most powerful, secretive, and well trained warriors on all the citadel get their gear for free?

-How does Shepard manage to suddenly switch the pull of gravity in his location, and walk down the side of the citadel? (Even Wrex, or Tali,two aliens of very different species and technologies are able to come along.)

-How in the holy mother of god do weapons shoot forever? It's not possible.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

KennyRogers wrote...

-How does Shepard manage to suddenly switch the pull of gravity in his location, and walk down the side of the citadel? (Even Wrex, or Tali,two aliens of very different species and technologies are able to come along.)

He doesnt, thats just your incorrect assumption.

There is a reason why if you punch geth or hit enemies with biotics like throw they will float away.

Maybe you should think through it again and come to a more intelligent conclusion than "Shepard changed gravity when scaling the citadel tower".

[finnithe]

Dudeman315 wrote...

finnithe wrote...

You guys still haven't addressed the balancing issue a weapon cooldown system creates. Specifically that most people will end up using just one weapon, which doesn't really make for challenging gameplay. 

Also I'm pretty sure ShepardWrex is just trolling this thread so could you guys please, please just ignore him or her. It's not hard, just don't press the reply button.

How does this make for more challenging gameplay? (Runout of ammo; Pause: switch to any other weapon; Un-Pause; Fire)
I truly don't understand this argument

Like I said a bit later, people wouldn't use my powers or their other weapons if they could just wait for my AR/Sniper Rifle/Shotgun to cool down. And wouldn't longer cooldowns also be a retcon?

Modifié par finnithe, 05 juin 2010 - 05:38 .

[tonnactus]

KennyRogers wrote...



-Why in the holy mother of god does Shepard carry weapons he has no use for? What's the logic?

I use shotguns/assault rifles even when i didnt have points in them or are not trained to use them.When enemies overheat my weapons.

-How in the holy mother of god do weapons shoot forever? It's not possible.

This is funny.Some people in this thread claim that this isnt possible.Forever is the wrong word.But each metal block contains thousands of bullets,enough for one mission.

But no one has a problem that shepardt became a sci fi jesus. Lol.

[tonnactus]

finnithe wrote...

Like I said a bit later, people wouldn't use my powers

They would to stop a dangerous enemie from charging.Just one example.I use sabotage in Mass Effect despise the fact i had specter weapons that never overheats to stop enemies like geth primes and armatures from firing at me.

[AlanC9]

KennyRogers wrote...

-How does Shepard manage to suddenly switch the pull of gravity in his location, and walk down the side of the citadel? (Even Wrex, or Tali,two aliens of very different species and technologies are able to come along.)

What gravity? Rotation wouldn't provide much pull that far up the tower. And Wrex and Tali's different species doesn't imply different technologies, since those seem to be more-or-less standardized in Citadel space.

-How in the holy mother of god do weapons shoot forever? It's not possible.

Meaning that no conceivable portable power source would shoot that long? Maybe, but any such source only has to function for the duration of the longest ME battle.

Modifié par AlanC9, 05 juin 2010 - 05:46 .

[KennyRogers]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

KennyRogers wrote...

-How does Shepard manage to suddenly switch the pull of gravity in his location, and walk down the side of the citadel? (Even Wrex, or Tali,two aliens of very different species and technologies are able to come along.)

He doesnt, thats just your incorrect assumption.

There is a reason why if you punch geth or hit enemies with biotics like throw they will float away.

Maybe you should think through it again and come to a more intelligent conclusion than "Shepard changed gravity when scaling the citadel tower".

I KNOW that he doesn't, what I'm saying is that explaining it through technological means isn't very sensible due to the fact that your other companons are able to do exactly the same. Gravity doesn't work that way, especially in its' abscence.

[Iakus]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

I think what ME1 did better, and this may be the source of the feeling that ME2 emphasizes combat more, is break things up in a less transparent way. The main story missions were longer, consisted of several combat and non-combat chunks, and the combat maps were less linear. The premise of the ME2 main story missions is actually typically the same as in ME1 - go to location X and investigate, leading to some kind of discovery that furthers the plot.  But with the exception of Horizon, the discoveries were typically limited to Shepard and squad coming across some kind of evidence like the Collector carcass that reveals the Collectors are genetically modified Protheans, the squad reacting, followed by more shooting that was largely unaffected by the discovery. In contrast, discoveries during, say, the Noveria part of ME1 tended to come from interaction with NPCs you met and the way the mission continued was affected by these interactions. Gameplay wise, there's little significant difference, it's both talk-shoot-talk-shoot, but what ME1 did in its main missions was more engaging storytelling and felt less like an action game that occasionally interrupts the shooting with a cutscene.

You are partly right, at least in my opinion.  But in addition, most of the quests in ME 2 are not part of the main plot at all (if we consider the Collectors to be "main plot".  If there were more missions like the Collector Ship quest, where we learn more about them and "what makes them tick" this would have been a far better game even if nothing else was changed (and believe me when I say I think far more needed to be changed)

[Dudeman315]

Right I get that you want to be forced to play the game a certain way, I just don't understand why being forced to use inferior weapons for my character is better than freedom to play how I see fit--I love the freedom to use only one weapon type or powers or any combo that I see fit.

It would be a retcon like Lucas having Han shoot first in the New Hope again.

Modifié par Dudeman315, 05 juin 2010 - 05:52 .

[AlanC9]

Actually, there is an issue with that scene. Rotational gravity in the Presidium is 0.3 G per the Codex, and presumably a bit more where Shepard gets off the elevator. You'd need some magnetic boots to hang on. Unless Saren de-spun the station, but in that case there shouldn't be gravity in the later scene.



But it's obvious from the scene that there isn't supposed to be any gravity outside the tower. The problem is that there should be some

[tonnactus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Actually, there is an issue with that scene. Rotational gravity in the Presidium is 0.3 G per the Codex, and presumably a bit more where Shepard gets off the elevator. You'd need some magnetic boots to hang on.

That is like twice the amount of the gravity of the moon.Did the astronauts need magnetic boots on the moon??

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Actually, there is an issue with that scene. Rotational gravity in the Presidium is 0.3 G per the Codex, and presumably a bit more where Shepard gets off the elevator. You'd need some magnetic boots to hang on. Unless Saren de-spun the station, but in that case there shouldn't be gravity in the later scene.

But it's obvious from the scene that there isn't supposed to be any gravity outside the tower. The problem is that there should be some

In a universe where Mass Effect fields are the basis of all advanced technology, I am personally gonna be flexible about how Shepard managed to walk along outside teh Citedel that way
Plus I'm really really bad at science

[spacehamsterZH]

iakus wrote...
You are partly right, at least in my opinion.  But in addition, most of the quests in ME 2 are not part of the main plot at all (if we consider the Collectors to be "main plot".  If there were more missions like the Collector Ship quest, where we learn more about them and "what makes them tick" this would have been a far better game even if nothing else was changed (and believe me when I say I think far more needed to be changed)

I dunno, I'm replaying ME1 right now, and I'm really finding that a lot of what goes on in the main quests seems kind of tangential too. For example, Noveria is really more about the Rachni than anything else, and it's largely a self-contained story with its own beginning, middle and end (and it borrows heavily from the Alien movies - just throwing that in here.) Sure, it's connected because it's part of Saren's preparations for the attack on the Citadel, but that really doesn't matter much through most of it.

Actually, now that I think about it, you could look at ME2's story structure as simply being a reversal of ME1's. In ME1, Saren had various plans going on in different places to gather allies for his attack on the Citadel and you were going around foiling those various plans. In ME2, it's Shepard who's gathering allies all over the galaxy. The problem being that a lot of players question Shepard's motivation to recruit all these people and/or say it's not what they would do, which is problematic for an RPG. But we're never really given a compelling reason why Saren needed the Rachni, the Thorian or the Krogan clones, in the end he just attacks the Citadel anyway. It's just that you're not playing from his perspective and just reacting to him, so it seems less forced.

Modifié par spacehamsterZH, 05 juin 2010 - 06:11 .

[Lumikki]

tonnactus wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Now ME2 combat system has it's own problem, like looting clips from ground, but two thing they did right. One is that weapons feels like they should be. Pistol feels like pistol and so on. Second is that player is actually using different weapons based different situations. Not just using one weapon to everyting.

When i get the revenant as a soldier, i didnt use any other weapon at that time.Its the same with the viper(infiltrator) that has enough ammo for whole missions and is even effective against shields.

BS, You can not use viper sniper rifle to everyting and never use any other weapon. You will run out of ammos, in some missions.

Modifié par Lumikki, 05 juin 2010 - 06:20 .