10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Some Geth]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Indeed. ME 1 was a mile stone in gaming history, like many BioWare games were. ME 2 is just another game. They had the chance to create a great trilogy, instead they threw it almost all away in their pursuit of the shooter mainstream market.

The curious thing is, it doesn't seem to have brought the sales numbers they probably expected. Even DA apparently sold better, even on consoles, and that's a real proper RPG! My conclusion: It would have been better to build on ME 1: Keep the companions (give or take a few), keep the Normandy, continue the story, tune (!) the mechanics and the Mako... This would not only have saved the developers work and time, it would also certainly at least not have sold worse.

This is the sweetest irony though, when looking at idiots like Some Geth: I have no problem with the concept of cameoing off the ME1 LIs, particularly when a response given by Bioware is flat out "they are saved for ME3" (of course what that actually means remains to be seen until now).

I just dont think relegating them to 10 minute cameos of "tch, Im afraid this is why they cant join you" was the right move.

I predicted an "excuse based cameo" is what we would get, and that is exactly what we got.

Now all thats left is to see exactly what it was "saving them" for in ME3....

Yes cuz that iz what I sayz and thinkz oh thank you my love 

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Some Geth wrote...
Yes cuz that iz what I sayz and thinkz oh thank you my love 

Jesus, if youre going to troll, can you at least try and make it interesting? Your mewling isnt even coming close to what successful trolling is designed to do. Its just boring.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 05 juin 2010 - 10:08 .

[Jebel Krong]

bjdbwea wrote...

The curious thing is, it doesn't seem to have brought the sales numbers they probably expected. Even DA apparently sold better, even on consoles, and that's a real proper RPG! My conclusion: It would have been better to build on ME 1: Keep the companions (give or take a few), keep the Normandy, continue the story, tune (!) the mechanics and the Mako... This would not only have saved the developers work and time, it would also certainly at least not have sold worse.

er, no DA:O didn't even sell me1 numbers... let alone me2 numbers.

[Some Geth]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
Yes cuz that iz what I sayz and thinkz oh thank you my love 

Jesus, if youre going to troll, can you at least try and make it interesting? Your mewling isnt even coming close to what successful trolling is designed to do. Its just boring.

Some see me as a troll some see me as a lover hell some see me as a god but I see myself as a Geth .

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Jebel Krong wrote...

er, no DA:O didn't even sell me1 numbers... let alone me2 numbers.

That should be "DA:O didnt even sell me2 numbers.... let alone me1 numbers". Since for many reasons, some obvious (ME1 being out longer for example), some not so obvious, me2 has by EAs own figures not yet outsold ME1.

And I think its actually quite likely that Dragon age is outselling ME2. Again, its been out longer, but there could always be more to it than that.

[Pocketgb]

Kalfear wrote...

Point is, I dont think saying ME1 and ME2 complaints are similar is correct. They are not, what so ever and came from vastly different playing styles! Complaints about ME1 came from shooter players like KennyRogers and SithexarKun and Shepardwrex who didnt want a RPG what so ever to begin with. Complaints about ME2 have mostly come from RPG players.

This is why I don't think this thread has gone anywhere. Seperating ME1 and ME2 fans as "shooter players" and "RPG players" is a grossly broad accusation.

Kalfear wrote...

I will say this, even though many of the pro ME2 players flat out refuse to let the pro RPG players have any threads where they list their complaints free of argueing and spam from the pro ME2/shooter players, RPG players at least offer up solutions when they list problems for the most part. Back in ME1 days, complaints rarely if ever came with a solution or suggestion. They were usually more like "this sucked and Im not giveing a reason why".

I fully agree with a thread where people can list complaints and where others can come to discuss them.

I completely disagree with a thread where people list they're complaints and pay little to no heed to any discussion or comments adressing those complaints.

You yourself stated plainly that you pay little attention to Ecael's posts, and simply put you are missing out on quite a lot. Most if not all of what he (she?) has said has been from the viewpoint of a person who loves both games, and has contributed a lot to bring to light how ME1 and ME2 are still vastly similar.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Pocketgb wrote...

You yourself stated plainly that you pay little attention to Ecael's posts, and simply put you are missing out on quite a lot. Most if not all of what he (she?) has said has been from the viewpoint of a person who loves both games, and has contributed a lot to bring to light how ME1 and ME2 are still vastly similar.

All of which has absolutely failed to fully counter our own points of how ME1 and ME2 are massively different. But of course, you would ignore that, while telling us not to do the same.

None of Ecaels snarky little posts have even had a hope in hells chance of convincing me to consciously deny the fact that ME1 is a standard Bioware RPG model in terms of story, progression and gameworld, whereas ME2 is a long series of disconnected shooter missions, which even go so far as to end on a truly immersion breaking "mission complete screen".

You clearly have a high opinion of Ecael, but her drivel isnt going to force me to deny what I know is true from playing the damn game myself.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 05 juin 2010 - 10:26 .

[Some Geth]

Oh by the way I love RPGs and and shooters and I like both ME1 and ME2 so I am with Pocketgb that this thread will go nowhere.

[tonnactus]

KitsuneRo

I have no idea how to solve that problem either. Increase the cooldowns and you'll be forced to use your weapons more which some people said adepts shouldn't be doing? Give enemies immunities which feels cheap and is basically what ME2 does? Whatever they do someone will feel disappointed.

The path to the solution exists already in the first game.Physics resistence that lowers the duration. Bosses like geth armatures just could bigger ones then cannonfodder.
Or a cooldown penalty.I dont know who ever wanted that adept shouldnt use weapons.Most players just want some crowd control back.

[Jebel Krong]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

er, no DA:O didn't even sell me1 numbers... let alone me2 numbers.

That should be "DA:O didnt even sell me2 numbers.... let alone me1 numbers". Since for many reasons, some obvious (ME1 being out longer for example), some not so obvious, me2 has by EAs own figures not yet outsold ME1.

And I think its actually quite likely that Dragon age is outselling ME2. Again, its been out longer, but there could always be more to it than that.

VG chartz' numbers were posted earlier in this thread, EAs numbers for NA and Europe were released with their financials, both show me2 has sold far faster and comparitively higher than me1. DA:O had a faster spike initially than me1 but has tailed off quicker to a lower comparative total so far, as well.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 05 juin 2010 - 10:33 .

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Jebel Krong wrote...

VG chartz' numbers were posted earlier in this thread, EAs numbers for NA and Europe were released with their financials, both show me2 has sold far faster and comparitively higher than me1. DA:O had a faster spike initially than me1 but has tailed off quicker to a lower comparitive total so far, as well.

ME2 had a huge initial sales boost over ME1 looking at some of the figures, but looks to have tailed off by some accounts, and judging from EAs own release not long ago of the 1.6 million figure, Mass Effect 1 and 2 look to be doing pretty similarly.

There is still a pretty clean chance ME2 will finish with more lifetime sales than ME1, but with a shooter oriented approach and reach out to shooter fans, and with a much stronger DLC backing, as well as being an established IP, thats not much of an improvement.

Clearly with the marketing comments of "Gears of War and Mordern Warfare 2 players will love this game", you would be within your rights to assume Bioware and EA would have liked sales more comparable to those two games.

Looks as if right now its having trouble chasing down ME1s sales all that quickly.

[tonnactus]

Jebel Krong wrote...

the tradgedy of the downfall of the protheans was a lot more horrifying and moving than a random band of mercs would have been.

I would be,if for example the collector general could break out of the indoctrination of harbinger and shepardt could have actually some dialog with him, getting to know the horrific experiments the reapers made with the collectors.Chance wasten. In this game the collectors dont matter more then a band of mercs.

[tonnactus]

Jebel Krong wrote...


VG chartz' numbers were posted earlier in this thread, EAs numbers for NA and Europe were released with their financials, both show me2 has sold far faster and comparitively higher than me1. DA:O had a faster spike initially than me1 but has tailed off quicker to a lower comparative total so far, as well.

Targeting the shooter crowd failed.And i doubt that Mass Effect 2 will even reach the sales of games like Fallout 3,who sold 3 million copies on the xbox alone.

[spacehamsterZH]

iakus wrote...
Tehh comparison has been made before:  ME
1 felt like chapters in a novel.  ME 2 felt more like short stories in
an anthology.

I wouldn't say the missions in ME2 are that disconnected, but yeah, close enough for a loose analogy I guess. Now the question is, is one inherently "better" than the other? I'd say it's just personal preference.

Not to mention this point right here can just as easily be made:

Jebel Krong wrote...
so you make the game better by reducing the size of the universe - i.e. everything being connected to *your* mission. nuh-uh, no way would that have been better.

i.e. a cohesive, dramatic narrative doesn't necessarily make for a more believable world. People tend to look for both in their RPGs, so it's always a balancing act.

Modifié par spacehamsterZH, 05 juin 2010 - 10:46 .

[Pocketgb]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

All of which has absolutely failed to fully counter our own points of have ME1 and ME2 are massively different. But of course, you would ignore that, while telling us not to do the same.

So I take it you know the answers to these questions?

Both games have the same amount of "safe" sidequests (Citadel quests vs. hubworld quests), both have been "hyped" for the action, both have disappointments in regards to their plot.

[KitsuneRommel]

tonnactus wrote...

The path to the solution exists already in the first game.Physics resistence that lowers the duration. Bosses like geth armatures just could bigger ones then cannonfodder.

It certainly didn't seem to work for enemies. Even the end boss could be controlled with a simple lift + throw rotation.

[Jebel Krong]

tonnactus wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

the tradgedy of the downfall of the protheans was a lot more horrifying and moving than a random band of mercs would have been.

I would be,if for example the collector general could break out of the indoctrination of harbinger and shepardt could have actually some dialog with him, getting to know the horrific experiments the reapers made with the collectors.Chance wasten. In this game the collectors dont matter more then a band of mercs.

that would be cliche and a tad unrealistic given the nature of the collectors by then... how you find out, where you find out and mordin's analysis were all very well-done.

[Some Geth]

Pocketgb wrote...

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

All of which has absolutely failed to fully counter our own points of have ME1 and ME2 are massively different. But of course, you would ignore that, while telling us not to do the same.

So I take it you know the answers to these questions?

Both games have the same amount of "safe" sidequests (Citadel quests vs. hubworld quests), both have been "hyped" for the action, both have disappointments in regards to their plot.

This and now lets GO ON! 

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Pocketgb wrote...

So I take it you know the answers to these questions?

Both games have the same amount of "safe" sidequests (Citadel quests vs. hubworld quests), both have been "hyped" for the action, both have disappointments in regards to their plot.

Those arent questions. They are random nitpicks dressed up as grand facts designed to shooter down opposing opinions that Ecael knows she cant actually refute.

I saw her listing out the lines she counted from Mass Effect 1 and 2 comparing them, and suggesting ME2 had more.

Does that mean anything? Nope, not a damn thing. Dialogue also got streamlined in ME2, and with 10 characters compared to six, its not surprising that they would talk more, but ultimately say less.

Ecaels "amazing questions that we cant refute and shoot down our views" are tripe, dressed in snark and image spam.

Im sure you think its very clever, but ecaels garbage, as I have already told you, cannot override my own experience playing the game.

I got more roleplaying and conversing done on Noveria than I did in about 5 loyalty missions, not counting the only two decent ones for roleplaying and non-combat, which is Thane and Samara.

[tonnactus]

This is the e3 demo from 2009. Like 6-8 months before the release. Biotic powers work despise the fact enemies have shields.
Enemie radar exists.
And the red veigns of death didnt...

The player could see how much health and shields his squadmates have.
Who thinks that this has to be changed into the crap we have now 8 months before this game was shipped???

Modifié par tonnactus, 05 juin 2010 - 10:56 .

[spacehamsterZH]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

I got more roleplaying and conversing done on Noveria than I did in about 5 loyalty missions, not counting the only two decent ones for roleplaying and non-combat, which is Thane and Samara.

Wow. One long-ass post and not a single point with an actual rationale to justify it. I'll just pick this one and respond at the level where you seem to like to communicate: I just finished Noveria again half an hour ago and I think you're a big poopyhead who's wrong about everything. I'm not going to justify any of this, of course, I'll just start shouting if you talk back to me.

You big poopyhead.

[Some Geth]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

I got more roleplaying and conversing done on Noveria than I did in about 5 loyalty missions, not counting the only two decent ones for roleplaying and non-combat, which is Thane and Samara.

Wow. One long-ass post and not a single point with an actual rationale to justify it. I'll just pick this one and respond at the level where you seem to like to communicate: I just finished Noveria again half an hour ago and I think you're a big poopyhead who's wrong about everything. I'm not going to justify any of this, of course, I'll just start shouting if you talk back to me.

You big poopyhead.

I think I am in love .

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Wow. One long-ass post and not a single point with an actual rationale to justify it. I'll just pick this one and respond at the level where you seem to like to communicate: I just finished Noveria again half an hour ago and I think you're a big poopyhead who's wrong about everything. I'm not going to justify any of this, of course, I'll just start shouting if you talk back to me.

You big poopyhead.

Grunt: Quick introductory dialogue with Wrex and Clan Shaman. Test gets underway. Lots of killing and thresher boss. Quick conversation with Uvenk, kill his men. Return, remaining dialogue is optional. Dialogue: optional or otherwise - 20% maybe? The rest is combat.

Garrus: Sign up for mission. Early small amounts of dialogue are optional. Kill your way into archangels hideout. Once inside, quick convo, start killing again. Into the basement, yadda yadda, pretty much the entire mission bar the early completely optional dialogue is killing. 10% dialogue maybe? The rest is killing?

Jack, Miranda and Jacob. All follow the similar path of small amounts of dialogue sprinkled through killing levels. Often it amounts to one key "roleplaying moment", like the ending of Jacobs mission for example.

Of course, then there is Noveria, that unfolds like a typical Bioware RPG "planet". It has more than one "stopping moment" with sidequests, and no shortage of breaks for periods of dialogue.

BUT WHO AM I KIDDING!!!! ME1 AND ME2 ARE TEH SAME!!!! FORGET THE DISCONTENT WHICH SUGGETS OTHERWISE!!!! DEY MADE IT ALL UP!!! ECAEL IS TOTALLY 100% RIGHT!!!!

No thanks, I think Ill stick to my own experiences of the games, not some ridiculous wannabee Bioware devs apologist musings.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Dialogue also got streamlined in ME2, and with 10 characters compared to six, its not surprising that they would talk more, but ultimately say less.

BUT U HAVE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT LOYALTY MISSIONS!

Yeah, that's something the shooter fans don't acknowledge. <_<

[Some Geth]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Dialogue also got streamlined in ME2, and with 10 characters compared to six, its not surprising that they would talk more, but ultimately say less.

BUT U HAVE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT LOYALTY MISSIONS!

Yeah, that's something the shooter fans don't acknowledge. <_<

They don't play the game dude .