10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Pocketgb]

It's less the fact that it didn't have 'sploshuns' and more the fact that the gameplay, nor story (which mind you is a gorgeous and awesome story), isn't worth the massive $60 pricetag when most if not all of it can be experienced in glorious 1080p on the internet.

[spacehamsterZH]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...
What about the fans of all other genres that turn profits? Do we not deserve a piece of the pie?

No. Obviously what I'm saying is that you don't. In fact, I move that you be banned from playing videogames because your tastes are different from mine. That must be my opinion because you said so.

Happy now?

[SkullandBonesmember]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

No. Obviously what I'm saying is that you don't. In fact, I move that you be banned from playing videogames because your tastes are different from mine. That must be my opinion because you said so.

Happy now?

<_<

Why does story have to take a backseat to combat 100 percent of the time? WHY CAN'T we have more games like Heavy Rain? It turned a profit and got mostly positive reviews. Here's a quote from a GameInformer issue of mine from right before its release-

Dan Ryckert talking about Heavy Rain-
Heavy Rain probably won't be a game for everyone. ADD-riddled gamers who only play constant-action experiences like Halo multiplayer or Grand Theft Auto probably won't get into the slow pacing and depressing nature of Quantic Dream's newest title.

[Pocketgb]

You're quoting the same magazine that gave ME2 a 9.75. Obviously they can't be trusted.

To answer you seriously:

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Why
does story have to take a backseat to combat 100 percent of the time?
WHY CAN'T we have more games like Heavy Rain?

Because it's the difference between a "game" and a really long movie.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 06 juin 2010 - 01:22 .

[AlanC9]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I tend to think that the biggest problem with ME2 for me is the plot and storyline.

In a nutshell:
In ME1, Shepard had the prothean cipher, in ME2, Shepard is the commander of a ship. TIM may just as well be the protagonist in ME2, instead of Shepard.  Just "Building up a team ", is not good enough.

So an RPG protagonist has to always be The Chosen One? The only person in the whole universe who can do what needs to be done? Seriously?

[AlanC9]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...
 WHY CAN'T we have more games like Heavy Rain?

Is the question why we can't have more games like Heavy Rain, or why ME can't be one of those games?

[SkullandBonesmember]

Pocketgb wrote...

Because it's the difference between a "game" and a really long movie.

Dude. There's a MARKET for Heavy Rain like games. You come across as being opposed to them even being made. Look at Tetris and look at Indigo Prophecy. Look at Donkey Kong and look at Mass Effect. Huuuuge difference. Video games evolve. Nobody is being forced to play a sports game if they don't want to. In a similar fashion, besides Mass Effect, no fans of platformers jump to Halo's message board and says they want to see Super Mario like jumping. Why was that the case with shooter fans? Oh that's right, because they feel they're entitled to any and every game with a gun in it.

AlanC9 wrote...

Is the question why we can't have more games like Heavy Rain, or why ME can't be one of those games?

Alright. Just let me state for the record, even though I've mentioned it before, I don't want Mass Effect to be like Heavy Rain. I found the combat in ME1 very enjoyable as I've enjoyed combat in other games as well. Example being Prince Of Persia. However I believe in a game, where the producers have SAID they want it to surpass a "game", the story needs to be the prime focus. Some games call for more of an emphasis on all aspects of their stories over combat.

[Some Geth]

Heavy Rain is a movie not a game.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

spacehamsterZH wrote...

No. Obviously what I'm saying is that you don't. In fact, I move that you be banned from playing videogames because your tastes are different from mine. That must be my opinion because you said so.

Happy now?

<_<

Why does story have to take a backseat to combat 100 percent of the time? WHY CAN'T we have more games like Heavy Rain? It turned a profit and got mostly positive reviews. Here's a quote from a GameInformer issue of mine from right before its release-

Dan Ryckert talking about Heavy Rain-
Heavy Rain probably won't be a game for everyone. ADD-riddled gamers who only play constant-action experiences like Halo multiplayer or Grand Theft Auto probably won't get into the slow pacing and depressing nature of Quantic Dream's newest title.

I certainly agree with you. But answering your question, in my opinion it's because of the nature of a game/story like Heavy Rain in the first place. It's a nieche concept. Heavy Rain is a kind of adventure game, who nowadays are not really game hits. Also, add the heavy cinematic experience, who take casual gamers away. Not everyone is ready to pick a "game" where you're supposed to watch a lot. Add the heavy depressing dramatic story. Not everyone, even most adults have the patience, and the strength to go through such dark stories. It's not an everyday fun experience like playing, a Mario game. It's not really an everyone game. I became really positvely surprised to see it passed the 1 million hit easy.

[Some Geth]

Heavy Rain has a lot of plot holes too big ones that kill the story.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Some Geth wrote...

Heavy Rain is a movie not a game.

Yeah. Because movies, just like books share the same amount of interactivity as Heavy Rain or Indigo Prophecy or Mass Effect taking into account ONLY dialogue and choices.

[SithLordExarKun]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Shooter side of combat was much better in ME2.

For my adept? Not so much. I have a choice between playing on a lower difficultly where enemies are too easy to kill, or playing on something like insanity, where against the rock, paper, scissors defence system the biotics are turned into nothing more than overkill finishing moves after wearing down defences, because someone thought it would be a good idea for "armour" or "shields" to block out the effects of throw or singularity.

Add in to the fact that, just as if the adept is the same class as the soldier, all this has to be played while taking cover because of the shooter health regen system added.

This is the thing about people being unable to accept the fact that ME2 is more aimed at the shooter fanbase. The marketing and the devs own words confirm this, even if the proof of simply playing the game doesnt prove it for them. They made cover a necessity with the new health system. They added ammo. They turned the weapons into uncustomisable weapons like those found in any bogstandard shooter.

All of this was the main priority, and then afterwards they tossed in the rpg side of combat. This is all pretty much confirmed by Christina Normans own presentation.

So yeah, the shooter aspect of combat has been greatly improved, and clearly Bioware knew this, as they made it the focal point of almost the entire marketing for ME2, and tailored the rest of the game almost completely around it.

As for suggesting a possible way to fix this - do I really need to? Aside from being pretty self explantatory, I felt ME1 was a much better balance of shooter and RPG anyway (even if both aspects had some pretty glaring flaws), so its not like they dont have experience already or lack a reference to build on.

Finally, honestly this is the first civil post i have seen you post in a long time.

But quite honestly, ME1's combat mechanics wasn't very deep to begin with(for a vanguard i could spam powers like nobodies business but in the second game, because of the "rock paper scissors" system, certain powers could be used on certain enemies which i personally felt was alot better) and the stat distribution wasn't exactly that good in my opinion along with an awful inventory system where i had to sort it out every time i kill an enemy.

ME1 isn't a great RPG(mechanic wise) in my opinion but a fantastic game, the second game just heavily focused a little too much on the combat mechanics and got rid off what the previous game had which obviously some of the more hardcore RPG fans didn't like as many have stated, they wanted a more balanced system between combat and RPG. Now of course certain butthurt individuals have gone beyond that and started getting nitpicky but that is a different story.


Lastly, ME1's weapon/armor mods didn't feel deep despite what some of the people here claim it to be as i barely see the difference unless i am using vastly different mod levels like cyro ammo 1 to cyro ammo 7, even shooter games(which i presume you despise) like the call of duty franchise had much deeper weapon customisation than both ME games.

Modifié par SithLordExarKun, 06 juin 2010 - 02:24 .

[Some Geth]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Heavy Rain is a movie not a game.

Yeah. Because movies, just like books share the same amount of interactivity as Heavy Rain or Indigo Prophecy or Mass Effect taking into account ONLY dialogue and choices.

The fact that I can win in Heavy Rain without trying and the plot sucks oh and what choices you suck they all die but the fat man you don't suck fat man dies wow it is like 2 movies that makes it better .

[SithLordExarKun]

Only fat man died in my heavy rain story. Did you not press the buttons while playing the game? But yeah the plot is generic , cliche and riddled with unexplainable plot holes.



Does that make it a bad game? No.

[AlanC9]

Could we maybe avoid Heavy Rain spoilers in this thread?

[Pocketgb]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Dude. There's a MARKET for Heavy Rain like games. You come across as being opposed to them even being made...

What, adventure games? Heavy Rain is FAR from
that. It's a cinematic with non-sensical interactions. There is
very little in terms of gameplay to really classify it as such, not to mention it's large amount of linearity.

SkullandBonesmember wrote...


Alright. Just let me state for the record, even though I've
mentioned it before, I don't want Mass Effect to be like Heavy Rain. I
found the combat in ME1 very enjoyable as I've enjoyed combat in other
games as well. Example being Prince Of Persia. However I believe in a
game, where the producers have SAID they want it to surpass a "game",
the story needs to be the prime focus. Some games call for more of an
emphasis on all aspects of their stories over combat.

The best games meld great gameplay with great story. This is why I don't appreciate Heavy Rain as "a game", even if the experience is awesome: some of the gameplay involves moving around, and the rest involve quick-time events. The story is immersive, the gameplay is not.

AlanC9 wrote...

Could we maybe avoid Heavy Rain spoilers in this thread?

These forums actually spoiled the story for me entirely : ( Fortunately it's made quite apparent in all the reviews that any one of the characters in the story can die, thus not much is spoiled (thankfully).

Agreed fully, though.

[SithLordExarKun]

AlanC9 wrote...

Could we maybe avoid Heavy Rain spoilers in this thread?

Nobody knows who fat man or the killer is.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Pocketgb wrote...

What, adventure games? Heavy Rain is FAR from that. It's a cinematic with non-sensical interactions. There is
very little in terms of gameplay to really classify it as such, not to mention it's large amount of linearity.

No, story driven games. But do you only define a game by whether or not you can fire a weapon? If so, classify Heavy Rain as a game because that's exactly what you can do.

[Pocketgb]

I classify it as a "game" if 1. it works, and 2. it makes sense. Quick-time events don't work, are lazy, and in Heavy Rain's case, completely unimmersive.

[Some Geth]

And for a game about plot it sure has a crap plot.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Pocketgb wrote...

I classify it as a "game" if 1. it works, and 2. it makes sense. Quick-time events don't work, are lazy, and in Heavy Rain's case, completely unimmersive.

In your opinion. There are those that would rather play Indigo Prophecy before Grand Theft Auto.

[Some Geth]

In my opinion most opinions suck.

[Pocketgb]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

In your opinion...

Well there's the whole thread!

[SkullandBonesmember]

So Pocket, is there such a thing as too much story and/or character interaction in a game? Is having too much combat in a game ever possible?