10273 réponses à ce sujet

[spacehamsterZH]

tonnactus wrote...

Mass Effect combat has  three parts: Shooting, biotic powers, tech powers. The last two get so "nerfed" that i rather use disruptor ammo then overload, just to name a example.
2 parts of the Mass Effect combat get worser then in the first game.

I've played ME2 with three different classes, and I always used biotics and tech powers. Especially at the higher difficulties, I specifically put my squads together based on what powers they had and what enemies I expected to come up against. Apparently you just didn't get it, and now you think that means "combat get worser".

Okay then, glad we cleared that up.

[tonnactus]

[quote]spacehamsterZH wrote...

[quote]ton
I've played ME2 with three different classes, and I always used biotics and tech powers.
[/quote]
And where i wrote that i didnt use them??

I just write that biotic and tech powers get nerfed and are worser then in the first game, what is just wright.( not only the because of the "protection system,the range is a joke too)
Ammo powers that did the same are just preferable.
Disruptor ammo is better then overload and warp ammo is better then warp.Why? No cooldown,you activate it once and use it the whole mission.Give it to the squad make this even better,especially at higher difficulties.

Modifié par tonnactus, 06 juin 2010 - 03:19 .

[AlanC9]

KalosCast wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

KalosCast wrote...
Virmire, while cool looking with cool speeches had that mind-bendingly stupid bit where you had to kill one of your squad-mates because the game didn't let you remember the fact that you had at least two squadmates and several marines on board your ship to help defend Ash/Kaiden while you saved Kaiden/Ash

Not really. If the engine could handle having all those people in a battle in the first place, you'd just end up facing so much more opposition that you could only win one battle anyway. The Gamemaster always has more forces available than you do.

It'd be nice to actually use everyone, but there's nothing special about Virmire-- might as well say that you forget there are other people on the Normandy every time you leave it. 

Way to completely not understand what I'm saying. No matter what, in the Virmire choice, one of your bland buddies does stuff off-screen (mostly being nuked) while the other one... gets saved despite never seeing them onscreen. What I'm saying is, instead of saying "sorry Ash, I'm saving Kaidan" say "Ash, if you activate that bomb I'll shoot you myself. Wrex and Tali (or whoever's on the ship), take the marines and support Ash at the bomb site while I take the heat off Kaiden, we'll all rendesvous at your location"

Wham, bam, sunshine and unicorn farts, everybody lives.

Looks like you completely misunderstood me, actually.

If Shepard could give that order, there would be so many enemy forces at whichever site that he'd need all his troops to win one battle anyway; it would not be possible for him to win both fights.  Like I said, the Gamemaster has more forces available than you. Enough to produce the situation he wants to produce. If he wants you to only be able to win one battle, that's the level of opposition you'll face.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

Probably not being clear:

We see the dquadmates gaining "loyalty" to Shepard via the missions.  But we don't see the squadmates interacting with each other at all.  We don't see if they trust or even like each other.  Most of these poeple don't know each other.  Some are used to working alone, and several clearly do not care for each other's company.  In stories with various personalities like this, we see them get work their differences out over the course of the story. They learn to trust each other and function as a unit or a team.  We do not see this at all here, even though the game is suppsedly all about building a squad for a mission so dangerous it's entirely possible, even likely, that some or all will die.  Would you want to go on a mission like that where there was only one person on the team you really trusted?

The idea that each of them could have a connection to the main storyline via the Collectors or Reapers would have been something that could bind them together more easily "You may not like me, but I hate the Collectors as much as you, and I'm willing to work with you to see them destroyed" That kind of thing.  It would be something at least.

I'm not disagreeing with wanting to show the, um, "squadness" of the squad. I just don't think this is a particularly good way to go about it. You could write that version of ME2, but it wouldn't necessarily be any better simply because all the characters have something to do with the Collectors

Note that of your examples, The Magnificent Seven / Seven Samurai doesn't have this at all (don't know why you mentioned this; it's actually very like the existing ME2),  and LOTR only has it in the limited sense that Sauron is threatening the entire world (it's not personal for anyone except Gandalf, Frodo, and Aragorn). As for JLA, that depends on which version of their origin we're discussing, but in any event Silver Age comics weren't allowed to get into a hero's motivation much.

Modifié par AlanC9, 06 juin 2010 - 04:09 .

[HTTP 404]

Kalfear wrote...

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

As stated many times before, shooter players will like this game.

LOL, cant skip the story fast enough (bold part of hi ststment)  for this person!

10/10, what a surprise

Obviously only shooter fans complained about the 10 minute unskippable prologue. *facepalm*

No, wait. It was everyone else who actually customize their characters.

Dont hurt your face

he complained about MULTIPLE CUTSCEENS (hense the plural he use "cutsceenS')

So sorry but reads as he wants to skip all the cutsceens, not just the prologue!

Why do you people want to argue every little thing? Read what he said!

He basically complained about any activity that wasnt shooting related!

his opinion is obviously different from yours, so you resort to derisive comments.

Modifié par EA_BiowareAccount, 06 juin 2010 - 04:43 .

[SuperMedbh]

AlanC9 wrote... The Magnificent Seven / Seven Samurai doesn't have this at all (don't know why you mentioned this; it's actually very like the existing ME2).

I would go so far as to say that ME2 is essentially the Seven Samurai redone as a Space Opera.  Not that there's anything wrong with that;  the Magnificent Seven is the Seven Samurai redone as a Western and it's a classic, too.

[Pocketgb]

tonnactus wrote...

And where i wrote that i didnt use them??

I just write that biotic and tech powers get nerfed and are worser then in the first game, what is just wright.( not only the because of the "protection system,the range is a joke too)
Ammo powers that did the same are just preferable.
Disruptor ammo is better then overload and warp ammo is better then warp.Why? No cooldown,you activate it once and use it the whole mission.Give it to the squad make this even better,especially at higher difficulties.

Given the amount of imba that existed in biotics in ME1, I gotta say this is a good thing. While I'd like to see a few changes for ME3 - mainly in the way the global cooldowns worked and having maybe a few more abilities - it was a very interesting take.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 06 juin 2010 - 05:34 .

[spacehamsterZH]

tonnactus wrote...

I just write that biotic and tech powers get nerfed and are worser then in the first game, what is just wright.( not only the because of the "protection system,the range is a joke too)
Ammo powers that did the same are just preferable.
Disruptor ammo is better then overload and warp ammo is better then warp.Why? No cooldown,you activate it once and use it the whole mission.Give it to the squad make this even better,especially at higher difficulties.

So a bunch of totally overpowered biotic and tech powers got scaled back a bit and somehow that's a bad thing? You know how I do combat in ME1? Just spam through all of everyone's powers by stopping with the power wheel every two seconds. Takes about 10 seconds to end the average encounter. When I die it's because I'm fighting the controls and/or the friendly AI is being retarded and getting in my way.

But yeah, ME1 combat was SO MUCH BETTER.

The new HUD sucks, though. I'll give you that. It wasn't until about halfway into my first playthrough of ME2 that I even figured out what it meant, and then I realized that the information is basically useless and just ignored it. I really hope they bring back the ME1 version with a life bar and shield meter back.

[Tirigon]

AlanC9 wrote...

Looks like you completely misunderstood me, actually.

If Shepard could give that order, there would be so many enemy forces at whichever site that he'd need all his troops to win one battle anyway; it would not be possible for him to win both fights.  Like I said, the Gamemaster has more forces available than you. Enough to produce the situation he wants to produce. If he wants you to only be able to win one battle, that's the level of opposition you'll face.

You mean, like in Dragon Age the battle against Ser Cauthrien which you are supposed to loose?

Oh wait...

[tonnactus]

Pocketgb wrote...

Given the amount of imba that existed in biotics in ME1, I gotta say this is a good thing. While I'd like to see a few changes for ME3 - mainly in the way the global cooldowns worked and having maybe a few more abilities - it was a very interesting take.

Not only biotics,also tech abilities are weaker.

Just compare the range and damage of Overload in Mass Effect and the sequel:

3m range(at the expense of damage) compared to 10.

Not only the guns,but also the omnitools seemed to be downgraded.
Ai-hacking only works when shields are down?

Was that not balanced in the first game too??

Modifié par tonnactus, 06 juin 2010 - 05:39 .

[Pocketgb]

Mechanics are widely different, but all the classes have a place in the game. Some are easier to play (Infiltrator) and some are a bit more challenging (Vanguard) but all the classes are largely viable.

Want some encouragement? Just check out any of ThatAverageGatsby's stuff.

[tonnactus]

spacehamsterZH wrote...



So a bunch of totally overpowered biotic and tech powers got scaled back a bit and somehow that's a bad thing?

Tech powers were overpowered? At least a lot of enemies could use more then one weapon when you used sabotage on them.

 You know how I do combat in ME1? Just spam through all of everyone's powers by stopping with the power wheel every two seconds. Takes about 10 seconds to end the average encounter. When I die it's because I'm fighting the controls and/or the friendly AI is being retarded and getting in my way.
But yeah, ME1 combat was SO MUCH BETTER.

And now look out what we get with the amazing new gameplay of Mass Effect 2.
Soldier gameplay: Enemie has shields. Equip disruptor ammo and spam adrenaline rush.
Enemie has armor.Use inferno ammo and spam adrenaline rush.
Enemie has barriers.Use warp ammo and spam adrenaline rush.

Adept gameplay: Enemie has shields.Use squad disruptor ammo(zaeed), spam singularity,then  a warp for a detonation after the shields are gone.
Enemie has armor.Spam warp. Spam singularity for charging enemies.

I could continue with other classes,but i dont think its necessary.

The player still spams powers in this game. Just less of them then in the first.

A borefest. Even charge becomes boring after a while.

And the protection systems is just the most easy and cheap way "balance" biotics and tech powers.

A increased cooldown for abilities when they are used on enemies like the heavy mech. A limit how many enemies could be thrown or pulled in a biotic field. But not the silly protection system that prevent that even on cannon fodder on harder difficulties.

[Pocketgb]

And ME1 was better in this regards?



"Have Immunity? USE IT. You win!"

[AlanC9]

Tirigon wrote...

You mean, like in Dragon Age the battle against Ser Cauthrien which you are supposed to loose?

Oh wait...

Not quite. That battle is winnable and Bio knew it to be winnable, since they made scripting provisions for the player winning it. Its not worth winning, of course.

The standard tactic for making a CRPG fight unwinnable is respawning enemies. Sometimes you'll see a boss-level critter set to immortal. and then there's times when you just lose in a cutscene rather than having a fight, which Bio 's done before, notably in BG2.

[tonnactus]

Pocketgb wrote...

And ME1 was better in this regards?

"Have Immunity? USE IT. You win!"

For most classes except the soldier the answer is yes.But even for the soldier. I for example max all weapon talents and use high damage mods,so weapons could be usable without overheat only when overkill or marksmen was active.Immunity was only used against melee opponents/poison attacks.

[Kalfear]

EA_BiowareAccount wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

As stated many times before, shooter players will like this game.

LOL, cant skip the story fast enough (bold part of hi ststment)  for this person!

10/10, what a surprise

Obviously only shooter fans complained about the 10 minute unskippable prologue. *facepalm*

No, wait. It was everyone else who actually customize their characters.

Dont hurt your face

he complained about MULTIPLE CUTSCEENS (hense the plural he use "cutsceenS')

So sorry but reads as he wants to skip all the cutsceens, not just the prologue!

Why do you people want to argue every little thing? Read what he said!

He basically complained about any activity that wasnt shooting related!

his opinion is obviously different from yours, so you resort to derisive comments.

jesus, why do I even have to point this out!

he said Faceplam so I said dont hurt your face.

had nothing to do with opinion or anything.
Opinios were discussed and we came to a conclusion over them so why cant you be happy with that?

[SkullandBonesmember]

Pocketgb wrote...

Well, what do you want? More squadmates with overall less conversation, or fewer squadmates with more conversation? Unless you're pointing out something else? (Late at night, mind is fuzzy).

No. What I want, as I've said before, is equal ratio for character interaction and combat, which we didn't get in ME2. If that's the consensus with the majority of RPG fans, the RPG fans who want a deep and enthralling story, what does that tell you?

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Because I'm a dumb, dumb console user who only wants "sploshuns" in his games, obviously. Just saving you some time here, that's what you  wanted to hear and you're obviously not the least bit interested in a productive exchange of opinions.

You're welcome. Feel free to write "sploshuns" a couple more times in response to this since you enjoy saying that so much. Yawn.

If you insist. 'SPLOSHUNS.

Seriously, you really come across as being OPPOSED to story driven fans getting the kinds of game we're interested in, which are so few, regardless of how shooter games for fans of 'SPLOSHUNS are a dime a dozen. So are you entitled to every game with a gun in it?

[Kalfear]

Lumikki wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

Mass Effect 1 and supposably 2 are equal parts RPG and shooter so its impossible for them to have to much story or interaction.

WHAT?

My point is that, where you get the information that Mass Effects suppose to have equal amount of rpg and shooter.  ME1 has very little rpg and ME2 even less. Mass Effect series are cinematic storytelling 3rd person shooters. Problem is not what games are, problem is some people thinking they should be something else.

I like my self alot  rpg and don't like 1st person shooters, but that doens't mean I only have to like rpg. There is difference between game has to be what you self like or trying to change game to what you like and game be as what it is. Both Mass Effects where design to be what they are on purpose, there where no accident.

Would my self like more story and less combat in Mass Effects 3. I would be fine by it. It's not combat what is important to me in Mass Effects, it's the cinematic storytelling. How ever, I can only accept what mass effect is, not define what it should be. Because who's taste we follow when design what Mass Effects are, because there is millions of players with different taste.

Like many of you say you opinion of taste, what's totally fine. It give developers good feedback of players taste of games and what they want more. But don't try to say somehting like what I bolded, because that's not true. It's your personal assumption how you want to see the Mass Effects.

Saying ME1 had very little RPG doesnt make it true!

ME1 remains my #1 RPG to this day and ill put my RPG experience against anyone else anyday of the week (and ill have more 8 outta 10 times).

ME1 was a RPG/Shooter hybred which means it was a RPG and there for couldnt have to much story or interaction. period.

ME2 for the record was a shooter with a story background.

ME2 wasnt a RPG, but it was suppose to be in part.

Oh and its NOT my personal assumption, its how it was presented to the public and marketted.
Its you saying your personal assumptions are reality when in fact they are everything but in this case

Modifié par Kalfear, 06 juin 2010 - 06:39 .

[SkullandBonesmember]

Kalfear wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

So Pocket, is there such a thing as too much story and/or character interaction in a game? Is having too much combat in a game ever possible?

I'd also like to extend my question to anybody willing to give their 2 cents.

Too much story? Could be, if it's just uninteresting. Can't say I have encountered that situation any game though. If they have a boring story, it's usually not very long either.

Too much interaction? Impossible.

Too much combat? Easy, many games have it. I wouldn't yet call it too much in ME 2 though, rather too little of the other important things.

Agree, its impossible to have to much story or interaction IN A RPG TITLE!
Now please note, I said a RPG TITLE. If I bought say Street Fighter, you most definately can have to much story because you playing that to fight fight fight.

Exactly. QFT.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Posted this as a reply over at a Tali board, but it seems to me the Social is overrun with shooter fans whereas the original boards RPG fans made up the majority. 

Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 06 juin 2010 - 06:42 .

[Iakus]

Delerius_Jedi wrote...


The party interactions are a symptom of a greater problem, I think - namely that Shepard doesn't really have a personality. Think about it - Shepard dies at the start of ME2. Then he/she is brought back to life and...then what? Dying doesn't really seem to do anything, and by extension that whole incident just seems cheap. While a total breakdown would be OOC, I really would have liked to see BioWare do something with Shepard's death, like him/her having a need to actually deal with it.

Even Tali and Garrus barely mention it, which is just mind-boggling. These are the people who followed Shepard into the fire and yet all you get is one comment on it. None of them actually live up to the previous friendship by trying to help Shepard out. Would it really be so abnormal to have either Garrus or Tali come to Shepard and ask if she/he is alright?

One of my favorite lines from Smudboy's "Mass Effect 2 Plot Analysis":

"When the hero of the galaxy comes back from the dead, that should mean something to everyone who knew them and what they did.  For several reasons, not just get discounts at stores."

[RyuGuitarFreak]

tonnactus wrote...

Pocketgb wrote...

And ME1 was better in this regards?

"Have Immunity? USE IT. You win!"

For most classes except the soldier the answer is yes.But even for the soldier. I for example max all weapon talents and use high damage mods,so weapons could be usable without overheat only when overkill or marksmen was active.Immunity was only used against melee opponents/poison attacks.

Singularity was waaaaaaaay overpowered too. Lift if you're nemesis is as good as singularity, throw is a must when facing the awesome cheap krogans, if not, you're dead. Tech powers I didn't find them that good only. Useful, but not as good or fun to use as biotics. At least in ME2 they got cloak, combat drone and flashbang grenade (if you have Kasumi). And in ME2 there's the coolest power ever: biotic charge. So yes, IMO tech and biotics in ME2>ME1.

Ammo powers are really good, but to shoot you expose yourself to enemy shooting which could be deadly in hardcore/insanity, to use skills like warp or overload you expose yourself only for a brief momment. Warp explosions are also nice, I wish we had something like this for tech abilities.

[Pocketgb]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

No. What I want, as I've said before, is equal ratio for character interaction and combat, which we didn't get in ME2. If that's the consensus with the majority of RPG fans, the RPG fans who want a deep and enthralling story, what does that tell you?

If that's the case it really doesn't tell me anything since ME1 also put an emphasis on the bang-bang. From the get-go that's how it's been hyped: "Check out these guns, the cover system, the abilities, the Mako." For ME1's case it wasn't the amount of story/dialog/interactions/etc. that mattered and more the delivery and impact of those moments. Same goes for ME2.

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Seriously, you really come across as being OPPOSED to story driven fans getting the kinds of game we're interested in...

No. Stop tossing this label around.

[Iakus]

Terror_K wrote...

I have to say, I've been playing Alpha Protocol over the last few days and while it does admittedly have some flaws, there's a lot the Mass Effect team could learn from it too. I actually feel it does a better job at being an RPG than Mass Effect 2 does, even if overall its probably not as good a game. The combat is a bit messy, with shocking AI and some downright awful bits, but it does admittedly have some layers to it ME2 lacks, such as stealth combat, blind-firing, aiming for longer to increase accuracy, etc. and does feel more like real-time RPG combat for it much like Deus Ex and Fallout 3 did. I actually found the mini-games better in AP too, simply because I could actually fail them now and then and doing so had consequences beyond simply locking me out. The levels are less linear and allow multiple routes and methods of accomplishing them, and allow some non-combat alternatives. On the dialogue side of things it also had several really hard choices with direct consequences that were actually pretty tough, and I feel it actually beat both games out here overall (i.e. saving a possible love interest or a group of people, saving rapidly deleting data on either mass riots or an assassination attempt, siding with one evil over another, etc.). On top of it all, it has a more solid RPG backing than ME2, with multiple weapons, decent weapons modding and overall has decent skill upgrades that let you progress visibly without it being too much. Not sure how linear the weapons are and all... haven't done multiple playthroughs yet. Its got a decent influence system too, whereby individual comments even effect people rather than simply defining events (closer to DAO's approval/disapproval system basically). It may not quite pull it all off, but it does a better job than ME2 did in a lot of individual aspects, if not overall.

I've been playing AP to (haven't finished it yet though), and I pretty much agree with what you just said.  I should also add that  conversation choices have time limits.  You have only a few seconds to decide how you're going to respond, no little time to ponder over what to say.  Almost like they combined conversation choices with an interrupt system.  Overall, far more of an RPG than ME2.  I'll have to finish the game and see if they patch out any of the flaws, but overall, yeah it's at least Deus Ex quality. 

[tonnactus]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Singularity was waaaaaaaay overpowered too. Lift if you're nemesis is as good as singularity, throw is a must when facing the awesome cheap krogans, if not, you're dead. Tech powers I didn't find them that good only. Useful, but not as good or fun to use as biotics.

A tech team coul perma sabotage a geth colossus and hacking armatures was also fun.

At least in ME2 they got cloak, combat drone and flashbang grenade (if you have Kasumi).

The flashbang grenade is a combat power.

Ammo powers are really good, but to shoot you expose yourself to enemy shooting which could be deadly in hardcore/insanity,

Deadly? When in the awesome red veigns, go back to cover for 2 seconds is all it needs.Squadmates continue to shoot und destroy protection with the squad version of an ammo power. Enemies rarely use flanking anyway except the geth.

Warp explosions are also nice, I wish we had something like this for tech abilities.

Explosive canisters do double damage to enemies if overload is used.

Modifié par tonnactus, 06 juin 2010 - 07:06 .