10273 réponses à ce sujet

[uberdowzen]

I've stopped posting here, but I think it needs to be said that anyone posting here hoping that Bioware is going to read through this thread and that that will lead to changes in ME2 is, to be blunt, wrong. No one at Bioware (or actually come to think of it anyone) has the peseverence to read 195 pages of people contradicting each other...

[Aphexdash]

Mister Mida wrote...
People should do their homework before they say that a game has been 'consolized'.

Where did I say that ME1 was a PC Exclusive?  No where.  What I meant by that was that it was streamlined into the current system.  If you couldn't write an intelligent response, then don't bother.

[SkullandBonesmember]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

I have plenty of criticisms about ME2, it's not a perfect game.

But none of those criticisms revolve around too much combat or not enough character interaction.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Aphexdash wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...
Games like Deus Ex and Diablo handled it better, ME just had that KOTOR inventory except worse

I had suggested to use the ME1 Inventory system, if it was either that or the ME2 No Inventory Upgrades system.

I'm all for a better inventory, but even ME1's I find better than having no inventory at all.

The upgrades are really the only thing that is missing and that should be handled at a loadout screen pre-mission, along with Armor for yourself and your squadmates.  Running up to your quarters to modify your armor is tedious.

I'm of a different mindset however, if you can't get it to work or up to snuff you should cut it out.  I'll also respond to a comment along time ago in regards to Noveria.  Noveria may be interesting from what you can do in it, however it is an optimization nightmare and makes that trek a complete slog.  Peak 15 is even worse. 

Streamlining, dumbing down?  I just see it as removing obstacles.  Of course everythign should be bigger and better, but given the choice axe it if it presents a problem, which ME 1's inventory did as it really didn't add all that much to the game.  

[Some Geth]

uberdowzen wrote...

I've stopped posting here, but I think it needs to be said that anyone posting here hoping that Bioware is going to read through this thread and that that will lead to changes in ME2 is, to be blunt, wrong. No one at Bioware (or actually come to think of it anyone) has the peseverence to read 195 pages of people contradicting each other...

Yup no one cares :happy:

[Onyx Jaguar]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

spacehamsterZH wrote...

I have plenty of criticisms about ME2, it's not a perfect game.

But none of those criticisms revolve around too much combat or not enough character interaction.

ME 2 should have had a more change of pace (not the Mako or Hammerhead, felt like pure filler), but I really do not see it as that different from ME 1 in regards to character interaction and pacing. 

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

I'm not sure what this post has to do with me, I have plenty of criticisms about ME2, it's not a perfect game. But neither is ME1. I just generally find that anyone who uses short circuit logic like "all console games are inherently stupid" is not someone capable of constructing an intelligent argument.

Im a console gamer when it comes to ME1/ME2, and even I can admit it was "consolized". Christina Normans presentation pointed out that they looked at what other shooters were doing, and clearly Gears of War (a staple console shooter) was foremost among them.

I dont necessarily agree with the statement in terms of PC = complexity Console = stupidity for every single scenario, but in this one it was clearly dumbed down by a pursuit of being a standard console shooter.

Thats one of my ultimate gripes. ME2 wasnt a game with a heavy shooter element, like ME1 was, and balanced by a heavy Bioware RPG element. Its an active pursuit of shooter. Theres enough evidence in the marketing, gameplay and aforementioned dev presentation to easily see ME2 is a Bioware "How good a shooter can we make" project. Then just enough RPG was thrown in once the shooter was made so that Bioware didnt leave it out of the game entirely.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 06 juin 2010 - 10:01 .

[Aphexdash]

spacehamsterZH wrote...
I just generally find that anyone who uses short circuit logic like "all console games are inherently stupid" is not someone capable of constructing an intelligent argument.

Not stupid, but you have a Gamepad as your game input.  You can't click things on the screen, you need to navigate with a direction.  Which makes an inventory a clumsy interface, where as with a mouse its second nature and navigating a console optimised menu with a mouse is counter-intuitive.

Mass Effect 2 felt like Mass Effect Lite to me.

Modifié par Aphexdash, 06 juin 2010 - 10:03 .

[Some Geth]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

spacehamsterZH wrote...

I have plenty of criticisms about ME2, it's not a perfect game.

But none of those criticisms revolve around too much combat or not enough character interaction.

ME 2 should have had a more change of pace (not the Mako or Hammerhead, felt like pure filler), but I really do not see it as that different from ME 1 in regards to character interaction and pacing. 

But ME1 was like  and ME2 was like:huh: to the fandom but to me the fandom that thinks like that are like .

[bjdbwea]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

There are just as many console gamers who like RPGs as there are who are PC gamers.

I don't think it's just as many, but the success of ME 1, Oblivion and Fallout 3 on consoles proves there are indeed many. So BioWare should have continued to target that audience.

Actually, that suggestion of making two versions could work, but don't split it between the console and PC version: Why not let the player choose at the beginning of the game, if they want an RPG gameplay and combat system, or a "streamlined" system that does the thinking for them, and where their trigger finger is all that matters? That way, everyone could get what they want. I suppose the shooter fans would still complain though, not liking that BioWare "waste" their time with the RPG stuff.

[Mister Mida]

Aphexdash wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...
People should do their homework before they say that a game has been 'consolized'.

Where did I say that ME1 was a PC Exclusive?  No where.  What I meant by that was that it was streamlined into the current system.  If you couldn't write an intelligent response, then don't bother.

I don't understand what 'PC exclusive' has to do with the few words I said but you're right that I shouldn't had to bother to respond to the millionth statement that ME2's design is there to please the console gamers. I usually ignore them. A significant amount people who are criticising ME2's design are console gamers for that matter.

[Aphexdash]

Mister Mida wrote...
I don't understand

Ah ok.

[Aphexdash]

bjdbwea wrote...
Actually, that suggestion of making two versions could work, but don't split it between the console and PC version: Why not let the player choose at the beginning of the game, if they want an RPG gameplay and combat system, or a "streamlined" system that does the thinking for them, and where their trigger finger is all that matters? That way, everyone could get what they want. I suppose the shooter fans would still complain though, not liking that BioWare "waste" their time with the RPG stuff.

This.

[Onyx Jaguar]

It all started with KOTOR, it all started with KOTOR.



Not to mention the deeply rooted JRPG, which itself is an offshoot of the old Wizardry and Ultima games in lineage.

[spacehamsterZH]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

spacehamsterZH
wrote...

I have plenty of criticisms about ME2, it's not a
perfect game.

But none of those criticisms revolve around
too much combat or not enough character interaction.

No, because the combat to interaction ratio in ME1 was about the same and I liked that game too. I'm, uh, sorry?

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...
Im a console gamer when it comes to ME1/ME2, and even I can admit it was "consolized".

I don't even know what "consolized" means. I played Phantasy Star II back on the Sega Mega Drive, that was a JRPG with round-based combat and a full inventory system, and the controller had three face buttons. This whole consoles vs PC thing is a bunch of retarded horsesh*t made up by people who have a desparate need to feel superior because of the gaming platform they use.

And besides, the fact remains that ME1 was originally developed for the 360, so whatever imaginary connection you want to hallucinate between input device and depth of gameplay is completely null and void anyway. That control scheme was meant for the 360's controller too.

Modifié par spacehamsterZH, 06 juin 2010 - 10:13 .

[uberdowzen]

http://social.biowar.../index/822150/1 (major choices in ME2)

http://masseffect.wi...e_File_Transfer (all choices from ME1 that affect ME2 in some way)

[Kalfear]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Also, you can't deny there were less shooter fans on the original boards. The marketing for ME2 did its job.

I barely recognize any names anymore on these boards that were around for the original Bioware boards. 
Most of the old posters from the original Bioware boards have moved on and no longer post here (mass Effect, many still post in Dragon Age:Origins forums) to be honest

I wouldnt say marketting did its job though as we the RPG player were clearly lied to on many occations about ME2 containing as high quality and amount of RPG elements in ME2 as there was in ME2.

I think, (like many decent posters originally on the TOR boards)", they just got over ran by (wants to say kiddies after dealing with Alanc9, Sheppardwrex, Sithlordexarkun, and Ecael) but lets go with pro shooter posters (SWG posters overran the TOR boards even though its not SWG2 according to EA Austin)

Also didnt help that people who understandably didnt want to post in this cluster"beep" of a thread (seriously, if I knew my posts wouldnt get locked down immediately, I wouldnt post in this mess of a thread either) and made their own threads on ME2 game negatives got their threads locked down in under 3 hours by the same mod over and over and over (I personally counted no less then 15 threads but I guarentee there was triple that amount  or more. Also  that I didnt see. Those threads normally had 12 or more same type responces so your looking at ALOT of people that tried to post once and effectably got ran off by a closed minded (pro shooter) mod. Also in the first month after release, thousands posted negative and got attacked by a few hundread pro posters and rather then argue the obvious they also left here allowing thre pro side to say they "won" (like its a contest).

So the lack of original and old school posters more a combination of being lied to by Bioware about style of game ME2 was and a failure to allow people with less then glowing reveiws to have a open forum to present their veiws. I could see pushing posters with negative reveiws to post in this thread if posting here didnt mean you were openly attacked by a number of pro shooter trolls over and over over but sadly thats exactly what posting in this thread amounts to and seriously, who wants to do that for long? I myself come and go taking long breaks inbetween as it gets so mind numbingly stupid at times.

Would much prefer a thread I could voice my concerns in, pro shooter trolls were banned for trolling and their posts erased, and Bioware commented once in a awhile that they hearing and understanding our veiws as ALOT of people (myself included) have made excellent and well intended points meant to help ME3 not commit the same mistakes ME2 did but instead of Bioware we get Sheppardwrex, AlanC9, Ecael (who gets away with insulting usless spam pictures in the spoiler forum and here), and Sithlordexarkun to name a few.

But anyways, OP right, the RPG fan has been replaced with shooter fan on the new Bioware Mass Effect forums.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

I don't even know what "consolized" means. I played Phantasy Star II back on the Sega Mega Drive, that was a JRPG with round-based combat and a full inventory system, and the controller had three face buttons. This whole consoles vs PC thing is a bunch of retarded horsesh*t made up by people who have a desparate need to feel superior because of the gaming platform they use.

And besides, the fact remains that ME1 was originally developed for the 360, so whatever imaginary connection you want to hallucinate between input device and depth of gameplay is completely null and void anyway. That control scheme was meant for the 360's controller too.

Clearly youve blatantly missed the point I was clearly trying to illustrate.  This isnt about the game being developed for a 360 controller or a console interface. Its different than that. Why would I be making about ME2 being made for the "console peasants" when Im one of the console gamers that played ME1 & 2?

Obviously you were in too much of a rush to trumpet your own version of events, and like I said, blantantly missed the point I was actually making.

[Aphexdash]

spacehamsterZH wrote...
This whole consoles vs PC thing is a bunch of retarded horsesh*t made up by people who have a desparate need to feel superior because of the gaming platform they use.

Feel superior? No.  Recognize the differences in the two platforms? Yes.

What my original post was meant that was Instead of working to improve the Inventory system BioWare completely removed it in favour of an upgrade system.  I should have used the word 'Streamlined' instead, some people have massive chips on their shoulders.

[Kalfear]

Pocketgb wrote...



Hate to be a bit assertive here, but really:

Kalfear wrote...



Anouther pro shooter I try to not respond to but this is so out there I cant help myself1

This has to stop, Kalfear. If you want to maintain a civil discussion in this thread, you have to follow your own advice:

Kalfear wrote...



Quit TRYING to constantly pick fights on this board and use some freaking common sencefor once!!

I'm no saint, but I do try.

ummmm first off nice editting job



2nd off that reply wasnt even to you so why you taking offence?

The rply was to a pro shooter troll that I try not to feed!

Listen, you might think ignoring millions of dollars of advertising and writing over and over "wheres your evidence" as productive debating, I DO NOT now and NEVER WILL.

Thats trolling!

[Pocketgb]

bjdbwea wrote...

I don't think it's just as many, but the success of ME 1, Oblivion and Fallout 3 on consoles proves there are indeed many. So BioWare should have continued to target that audience.

You can add DA:O to that list as well. For those who say that ME2 "sold out" by changing its mechanics is bewildering since the above proves flat-out that Bioware would've still made a profit. Is it experimentation? Is it Christana Norman testing out new waters in a position she's unfamiliar with? I still think it's what ME1 set out to do, which was to draw more people into the RPG playstyle.

bjdbwea wrote...

Actually, that suggestion of making two versions could work, but don't split it between the console and PC version: Why not let the player choose at the beginning of the game, if they want an RPG gameplay and combat system, or a "streamlined" system that does the thinking for them, and where their trigger finger is all that matters?

I always felt that that's what multiple classes are supposed to cater to. I've always preferred the playstyle of the Fighter archtype: Not because it's "easy" (and it's actually quite upsetting when it's a simple playstyle) rather that I always enjoyed the concept of overcoming oppenents not through any spells or tricks up my sleeves but because of my inherent skill.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

uberdowzen wrote...

http://social.biowar.../index/822150/1 (major choices in ME2)

http://masseffect.wi...e_File_Transfer (all choices from ME1 that affect ME2 in some way)

All those choices listed bar the one made at the end of the game are optional. Mass Effect 2 has one choice that you *MUST* make.

ME1 has at least four major choices you HAVE to make.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 06 juin 2010 - 10:21 .

[spacehamsterZH]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...
Obviously you were in too much of a rush to trumpet your own version of events, and like I said, blantantly missed the point I was actually making.

I'm sorry, I tend to ignore the Gears of War comparisons outright. I've played both games, and a) they have next to nothing in common and  Mass Effect 2 is superior in just about every conceivable way. All the devs said was that they looked at other games, Gears being one of them, for how to get something right that they had already attempted with ME1. But the pausing, the time-dilating powers and the more complex squad controls (the latter being absent from ME1's oh-so-much-smarter combat, we note in passing) are still there, and they're not elements you typically find in shooters because they don't mesh well with multiplayer gaming.

Granted, the word "shooter" got thrown around so much in the marketing that it really is puzzling given how little the game actually has in common with real shooters.

[Some Geth]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...
Obviously you were in too much of a rush to trumpet your own version of events, and like I said, blantantly missed the point I was actually making.

I'm sorry, I tend to ignore the Gears of War comparisons outright. I've played both games, and a) they have next to nothing in common and  Mass Effect 2 is superior in just about every conceivable way. All the devs said was that they looked at other games, Gears being one of them, for how to get something right that they had already attempted with ME1. But the pausing, the time-dilating powers and the more complex squad controls (the latter being absent from ME1's oh-so-much-smarter combat, we note in passing) are still there, and they're not elements you typically find in shooters because they don't mesh well with multiplayer gaming.

Granted, the word "shooter" got thrown around so much in the marketing that it really is puzzling given how little the game actually has in common with real shooters.

Man you are like a Kamen Rider who saves the day from the monster of the week(Dink)

[spacehamsterZH]

Aphexdash wrote...
What my original post was meant that was Instead of working to improve the Inventory system BioWare completely removed it in favour of an upgrade system.  I should have used the word 'Streamlined' instead, some people have massive chips on their shoulders.

Nah, they pretty much scrapped it. I'll repeat this even though I've already said it today, just for you even though I know you're still going to insist that I'm blindly defending ME2 because I'm a dumb, dumb console shooter fan: one of my biggest peeves about ME2 is that it seems almost everything that didn't work as well as it could have in ME1 was just scrapped outright instead of trying to improve it. Except for the gunplay, obviously.