10273 réponses à ce sujet

[SkullandBonesmember]

finnithe wrote...

I don't really like how you're trying to make divisions between ME2 fans and ME1 fans. It doesn't really further the discussion at all, and audience who played the two games is not that different.

I'm not trying to make a "division" between fans, we're doing that just fine on our own. Just would like to see where everybody stands on what is more important and preferred game.

[SkullandBonesmember]

SuperMedbh wrote...

I didn't see Cake Mania listed, sorry.

Funny. So you didn't bother voting?

[Darth Drago]

shep82 wrote...

ME 2 has some minor flaws but all in all a great game. I understand those that disagree and respect that. I just wish everyone could do the same respect that others have differeing opinions.

-I wish everyone could just follow that simple bit about “respect that others have differing opinions” in here all the time.

It been getting heated in here over the last few days, so please tone it down a little. I don’t mind seeing a good debate or whatever you want to call it of the issues but don’t get bent out of shape if someone doesn’t agree with your point of view.

In appreciation to hitting page 200 in here. I would like to thank everyone for their contribution to this topic on both sides of the topic and in keeping it civil (for the most part) as can be considering the topics subject.

Modifié par Darth Drago, 07 juin 2010 - 03:10 .

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

SkullandBonesmember is right, we shooter fans have formed a cult bent on turning all games into "dumbed down gorefests". Mass Effect 2 was a huge success (even though there was still a big focus on story and character) and I now think it is time we turned to the developers of Heavy Rain and pressure them into making the sequel with more of an emphasis on blowing **** up and less on story (because lets face it the story sucked anyway).

[KalosCast]

AlanC9 wrote...

Looks like you completely misunderstood me, actually.

If Shepard could give that order, there would be so many enemy forces at whichever site that he'd need all his troops to win one battle anyway; it would not be possible for him to win both fights.  Like I said, the Gamemaster has more forces available than you. Enough to produce the situation he wants to produce. If he wants you to only be able to win one battle, that's the level of opposition you'll face.

No, seriously, what the hell are you talking about?

I guess since we're applying meta-game concepts to a storytelling moment, you clearly have enough forces to win both battles because no matter which route you take, you and your two squadmates cut through the enemy forces there with a variable ease based on which difficulty setting you have. If you're saying that the script is a partially aware being that decides what sort of choices you have, it doesn't change the fact that there's a gaping plot hole in the "superbly written" first game that exists for the sole purpose of forcing a dramatic scene when there was a very clear and obvious third option.

Also, I'd like to point out that I have a particularly long writeup about the need for balance between story and combat, as well as the reason I felt many people got tired of the combat sequences rather quickly in ME2 over ME1 several pages back, but the "sooper smartz are pee gee fanz" only nitpicked at tangential bits of categorization and completely ignored all of the points outright, so... yeah. Stop calling each other out on trolling because it's rather clearly the only thing that any of us are here for.

Modifié par KalosCast, 07 juin 2010 - 03:17 .

[SuperMedbh]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

SuperMedbh wrote...

I didn't see Cake Mania listed, sorry.

Funny. So you didn't bother voting?

J/K S&B   I voted for story and ME2, but I figured you knew that already.

[WilliamShatner]

200 pages of disappointment. This is what you have wrought. Are you happy BioWare???

[AlanC9]

Kalfear wrote...
I barely recognize any names anymore on these boards that were around for the original Bioware boards. 
Most of the old posters from the original Bioware boards have moved on and no longer post here (mass Effect, many still post in Dragon Age:Origins forums) to be honest

I think, (like many decent posters originally on the TOR boards)", they just got over ran by (wants to say kiddies after dealing with Alanc9, Sheppardwrex, Sithlordexarkun, and Ecael) but lets go with pro shooter posters (SWG posters overran the TOR boards even though its not SWG2 according to EA Austin)

Kiddies? Heh.

I'd be insulted if I took you seriously. You men you really don't remember me from the old Bio boards? My join date's six months before yours, silly. Guess I'm not one of the "decent" posters, huh?

[Some Geth]

WilliamShatner wrote...

200 pages of disappointment. This is what you have wrought. Are you happy BioWare???

LOL they don't CARE AT ALL 

[AlanC9]

KalosCast wrote...
I guess since we're applying meta-game concepts to a storytelling moment, you clearly have enough forces to win both battles because no matter which route you take, you and your two squadmates cut through the enemy forces there with a variable ease based on which difficulty setting you have. If you're saying that the script is a partially aware being that decides what sort of choices you have, it doesn't change the fact that there's a gaping plot hole in the "superbly written" first game that exists for the sole purpose of forcing a dramatic scene when there was a very clear and obvious third option.

It's the designer that's aware, of course, not the script.

So all you're saying is that Bio should have gone to greater lengths to show that this third option wasn't actually viable? You've got no problem with the actual choice, just the presentation? If so, I guess we don't have a real disagreement. But again, it's not like Virmire is any different from anything else in the game, which always puts arbitrary restrictions on you. Non-sandbox RPGs generally do.

How would you have presented the dilemma, anyway? Bear in mind that a difficulty-based solution can't work since players have all kinds of different skill levels.

And believe me, I'm not trying to defend ME1 in particular. I think its script is fairly typical Bioware work. While I'm obviously a Bio fan or I wouldn't have been here this long, there are some things that they think are not worth the trouble. Buying a Bio game means that you've bought yourself a ticket on the GM railroad, and you might as well accept the fact.

[AlanC9]

Darth Drago wrote...


On the marketing of both games:

ME1 Trailers.
You will clearly see RPG mentioned in the first one in in a few seconds. The second one doesn’t have RPG mentioned but it looks more like how the game is played, cinematic.


　
ME2 Trailers.
Funny they have no mention of RPG in them, but is it needed if it’s the sequel to one? They do show a lot of combat in the first one. Love the second one how it emphasizes Collectors a lot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBRo7JWy744
http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14235013/mass-effect-2/videos/me2_trl_launchtrailer_12010.html

Looking at these, I'm wondering if they only mentioned RPG for ME1 so people wouldn't accidentally think it was a shooter. It's actually kind of rare to mention the genre in a trailer, IIRC. Though I don't look at too many trailers myself, since  I prefer previews, first look columns, and whatnot; I'm not enough of a graphics **** to particularly care what a game looks like.

[AlanC9]

**** is blocked by the filter? Jeez --what if we need to discuss the Pearl from Dragon Age?

[Darth Drago]

AlanC9 wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...


On the marketing of both games:

ME1 Trailers.
You will clearly see RPG mentioned in the first one in in a few seconds. The second one doesn’t have RPG mentioned but it looks more like how the game is played, cinematic.


　
ME2 Trailers.
Funny they have no mention of RPG in them, but is it needed if it’s the sequel to one? They do show a lot of combat in the first one. Love the second one how it emphasizes Collectors a lot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBRo7JWy744
http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14235013/mass-effect-2/videos/me2_trl_launchtrailer_12010.html

Looking at these, I'm wondering if they only mentioned RPG for ME1 so people wouldn't accidentally think it was a shooter. It's actually kind of rare to mention the genre in a trailer, IIRC. Though I don't look at too many trailers myself, since  I prefer previews, first look columns, and whatnot; I'm not enough of a graphics **** to particularly care what a game looks like.

-Its possible since I cant think of more than a few non fantasy RPG’s out there. "Oh, look a game with guns." -so by deduction it must only be a shooter. I wish we had a lot more sci-fi RPG's out there to choose from.

Totally agree on the graphics bit. If I cared about the graphics of any game I wouldn’t still have a collection of SNES, Genesis and a very large collection of PlayStation 1 games and I certainly wouldn’t be playing games like Doom, A-Train or X-Com every now and then.

Modifié par Darth Drago, 07 juin 2010 - 04:49 .

[Terror_K]

Darth Drago wrote...
-Its possible since I cant think of more than a few non fantasy RPG’s out there. "Oh, look a game with guns." -so by deduction it must only be a shooter. I wish we had a lot more sci-fi RPG's out there to choose from.

They used to exist back in the day... Megatraveller 1 & 2, B.A.T. 1 & 2, Captive, Liberation, Hired Guns, Whale's Voyage, Deus Ex of course, etc. Not so much now.

[Darth Drago]

Terror_K wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...
-Its possible since I cant think of more than a few non fantasy RPG’s out there. "Oh, look a game with guns." -so by deduction it must only be a shooter. I wish we had a lot more sci-fi RPG's out there to choose from.

They used to exist back in the day... Megatraveller 1 & 2, B.A.T. 1 & 2, Captive, Liberation, Hired Guns, Whale's Voyage, Deus Ex of course, etc. Not so much now.

-How many of those are video games though? I recognize Deus Ex as a video game and of course Megatraveller as a pen and paper one.

I still have Traveller game books, one of the best sci-fi RPG’s made in my opinion. Right next to Rifts and The Morrow Project. I think I still have a Buck Rodgers video game for the Sega Genesis.

We had KOTOR and KOTOR 2 also I guess, but BioWare decide to pretty much screw over that franchise by going with the MMORPG by not even making a KOTOR 3 to at least wrap up the story first.

Its an untapped market thats wide open for a killer hit. Thats why I'm so dissapointed in the Mass Effect Franchise, they had a good start and then went more shooter crowd than anything for its sequel. Maybe ME3 will suprise me though. Doubt it, but maybe....

Modifié par Darth Drago, 07 juin 2010 - 05:42 .

[Terror_K]

Darth Drago wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...
-Its possible since I cant think of more than a few non fantasy RPG’s out there. "Oh, look a game with guns." -so by deduction it must only be a shooter. I wish we had a lot more sci-fi RPG's out there to choose from.

They used to exist back in the day... Megatraveller 1 & 2, B.A.T. 1 & 2, Captive, Liberation, Hired Guns, Whale's Voyage, Deus Ex of course, etc. Not so much now.

-How many of those are video games though? I recognize Deus Ex as a video game and of course Megatraveller as a pen and paper one.

All of them are video games; all cRPGs with a sci-fi setting and themes. They were also all made and released last century though.

[ilyboobies]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

I don't get how this is a disappointment. Really my only problems with this game is lack of exploration, dialouge, some freeze up, and little minor annoyances here and there that they could most likely fix.

ME2 had better gameplay and a better combat system then ME1 but ME2 had no real lasting effect on me, the games good and all but i just didn't get the same feeling as i did from the first in terms of the main storyline

when you consider ME1 was made 3 years ago and ME2 only came out early this year it is really a downfall when the first game has more of an effect on you and seems to kill ME2 in anything besides gameplay, combat system and the more awsome renegade/paragon actions in game.

anyone who will say that ME2's planet scanning was better than the mako is just foolish, as the only problem with the mako was that it was repetative, a simple change in how each planet was set out would have been better than scrapping it all together to dig for resources.

[Darth Drago]

Terror_K wrote...

All of them are video games; all cRPGs with a sci-fi setting and themes. They were also all made and released last century though.

-I guess now that I think on it Megatraveler 1 and 2 should have been a give away for a pc game since I don’t think they ever made a Megatraveller 2 pen and paper game… I missed bunch of games I guess, bu then I wasn’t into PC games at all until recently (within the last 6 years maybe).

[Terror_K]

Darth Drago wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

All of them are video games; all cRPGs with a sci-fi setting and themes. They were also all made and released last century though.

-I guess now that I think on it Megatraveler 1 and 2 should have been a give away for a pc game since I don’t think they ever made a Megatraveller 2 pen and paper game… I missed bunch of games I guess, bu then I wasn’t into PC games at all until recently (within the last 6 years maybe).

Yeah. Liberation was particularly good, especially for its time. One of the first truly open world games. From the wiki:-

The game has some similarities with Hired Guns; both games have a dark cyberpunk setting. However, the object of Liberation is to find and free a prisoner by gathering clues and following leads. The game world is a very large city containing hundreds of fully explorable households, offices and public buildings. It is this vast setting which precludes a brute-force approach to finding the captive and gives rise to the unusual core gameplay element of detective work.

In line with its nominal classification as an RPG game, Liberation features typical RPG tropes such as inventories, character upgrades, shops, money, and banks. Unlike many games, almost all world features are interactive and well integrated - the libraries contain large volumes of real information you have to use, the police actually enforce the law and have working police stations and cells, the taxis are functional, and you can indeed deal drugs with the drug dealers. The gameplay is highly open ended, much like Elite and Grand Theft Auto.

The thing was it was pretty under the radar, not because people didn't like it but because it was released only on the AGA series of Amigas and the Amiga CD32 console in 1994, just when the Amiga was starting to die out and shortly before the Playstation and Saturn came along. Had it been on PC or converted to the Playstation too, it likely would have been a bigger hit. It really was a fantastic game, which like the original UFO: Enemy Unknown (aka X-Com) hasn't really had anything quite like it since.

[Kalfear]

Terror_K wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

All of them are video games; all cRPGs with a sci-fi setting and themes. They were also all made and released last century though.

-I guess now that I think on it Megatraveler 1 and 2 should have been a give away for a pc game since I don’t think they ever made a Megatraveller 2 pen and paper game… I missed bunch of games I guess, bu then I wasn’t into PC games at all until recently (within the last 6 years maybe).

Yeah. Liberation was particularly good, especially for its time. One of the first truly open world games. From the wiki:-

The game has some similarities with Hired Guns; both games have a dark cyberpunk setting. However, the object of Liberation is to find and free a prisoner by gathering clues and following leads. The game world is a very large city containing hundreds of fully explorable households, offices and public buildings. It is this vast setting which precludes a brute-force approach to finding the captive and gives rise to the unusual core gameplay element of detective work.

In line with its nominal classification as an RPG game, Liberation features typical RPG tropes such as inventories, character upgrades, shops, money, and banks. Unlike many games, almost all world features are interactive and well integrated - the libraries contain large volumes of real information you have to use, the police actually enforce the law and have working police stations and cells, the taxis are functional, and you can indeed deal drugs with the drug dealers. The gameplay is highly open ended, much like Elite and Grand Theft Auto.

The thing was it was pretty under the radar, not because people didn't like it but because it was released only on the AGA series of Amigas and the Amiga CD32 console in 1994, just when the Amiga was starting to die out and shortly before the Playstation and Saturn came along. Had it been on PC or converted to the Playstation too, it likely would have been a bigger hit. It really was a fantastic game, which like the original UFO: Enemy Unknown (aka X-Com) hasn't really had anything quite like it since.

Terror

90% of the posters here probably never seen a a Amiga, much less played any games on one! LOL

I played the fish game (freind had one, great graphics at the time) LOL

First actual sci fi Game I remember was Mars something (forget full title) on the C64 system. Was fun for what it was. Kinda 3rd generation castle wolfenstein (the original) type game.

I gotta admit, I dont recognize most of those titles you listing either.

Im with Darth that Sci fi RPGs have been grossly underdeveloped over the years for PC and game machines.

Part of the reason I loved KotOR so bloody much was cause it was sci fi RPG. An actual RPG. Not a button mashing twitch game but a real live RPG in space.

[Darth Drago]

Terror_K wrote...
Yeah. Liberation was particularly good, especially for its time. One of the first truly open world games. From the wiki:-

The game has some similarities with Hired Guns; both games have a dark cyberpunk setting. However, the object of Liberation is to find and free a prisoner by gathering clues and following leads. The game world is a very large city containing hundreds of fully explorable households, offices and public buildings. It is this vast setting which precludes a brute-force approach to finding the captive and gives rise to the unusual core gameplay element of detective work.

In line with its nominal classification as an RPG game, Liberation features typical RPG tropes such as inventories, character upgrades, shops, money, and banks. Unlike many games, almost all world features are interactive and well integrated - the libraries contain large volumes of real information you have to use, the police actually enforce the law and have working police stations and cells, the taxis are functional, and you can indeed deal drugs with the drug dealers. The gameplay is highly open ended, much like Elite and Grand Theft Auto.

The thing was it was pretty under the radar, not because people didn't like it but because it was released only on the AGA series of Amigas and the Amiga CD32 console in 1994, just when the Amiga was starting to die out and shortly before the Playstation and Saturn came along. Had it been on PC or converted to the Playstation too, it likely would have been a bigger hit. It really was a fantastic game, which like the original UFO: Enemy Unknown (aka X-Com) hasn't really had anything quite like it since.

-Sounds cool.

To bad all we get now are mostly stale “been there, seen that” levels and game mechanics in most games. I hate to say it, but maybe game developers should go look to the games of the past to get good ideas from. Then give it a modern upgrade.

[finnithe]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

finnithe wrote...

I don't really like how you're trying to make divisions between ME2 fans and ME1 fans. It doesn't really further the discussion at all, and audience who played the two games is not that different.

I'm not trying to make a "division" between fans, we're doing that just fine on our own. Just would like to see where everybody stands on what is more important and preferred game.

You know how you say the balance between combat and interaction in ME2 was in favour of combat? Was the pacing of the game affected you think? I ask this because the combat in ME2 is in shorter bites in comparison to the combat sections of the main story missions in ME1, which were much, much longer. 

[Terror_K]

Darth Drago wrote...

I hate to say it, but maybe game developers should go look to the games of the past to get good ideas from. Then give it a modern upgrade. 

Gotta agree with this. There are so many old titles from way back that could simply be upgraded a little and modernized and they'd still have far more depth than most of today's titles. What I wouldn't give for a modern take on the likes of Midwinter 2, It Came From the Desert (BioWare could probably do an excellent job of something like this), Frontier, Covert Action, The Clue and the aforementioned Liberation.

[KitsuneRommel]

Darth Drago wrote...

To bad all we get now are mostly stale “been there, seen that” levels and game mechanics in most games. I hate to say it, but maybe game developers should go look to the games of the past to get good ideas from. Then give it a modern upgrade.

I agree with you though. I miss games like the Ultima series.

[SkullandBonesmember]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Like I said, it gave me a little bit of a laugh, but I don't know what they were smoking to think we don't like choices.