10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Drago]

Terror_K wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

I hate to say it, but maybe game developers should go look to the games of the past to get good ideas from. Then give it a modern upgrade. 

Gotta agree with this. There are so many old titles from way back that could simply be upgraded a little and modernized and they'd still have far more depth than most of today's titles. What I wouldn't give for a modern take on the likes of Midwinter 2, It Came From the Desert (BioWare could probably do an excellent job of something like this), Frontier, Covert Action, The Clue and the aforementioned Liberation.

-We can only dream I guess.
I keep hoping that Bethesda will pull a rabbit out its development team and go sci-fi with a new title one day.

Part of what really annoyed me in ME2 was the imersion breakers, the lack of depth of the game levels and general creativity. Not just the Mission Over screen or the thermal clip ammo fiasco but all the other little things that add up to an icky blah feeling.

Having a targeting box (or whatever it is) suddenly lock in on the bad guys (no spoilers please) on the N7: Anomalous Weather Detected quest. It was a great environment to walk around on with the heavy fog. All ruined by the auto lock of your targeting device. Imagine the fun if you didn’t have it auto lock and you practically walked right up to those things on that planet?

The N7: Wrecked Merchant Freighter quest is just the same really. The storm hits and visibility doesn’t really change and no weather effects at all.

On Thane’s recruiting mission when you get to the bridge, does the wind actually affect anything? Consider all the dialog about how windy it is up there by everyone that mentioned it.

How about a really dark location for a quest for once? Something with very limited lighting to make you jump at every sound. Now fill it with the occasional husk encounter. Give it a twist when you find the power to activate the lights, you also open all the doors that were locked and sealed.

Add in a new dimension with things that crawl or walk on the walls or ceilings, even flying things (more than those stupid tech drones). A prefect example is the simple spider in any fantasy game like DAO, all ground restricted for all movement. “Oh look its another Varren to shoot. Yawn.” Cant surprise us with a few of them actually leaping through the air like big cats can you?

[KalosCast]

AlanC9 wrote...

KalosCast wrote...
I guess since we're applying meta-game concepts to a storytelling moment, you clearly have enough forces to win both battles because no matter which route you take, you and your two squadmates cut through the enemy forces there with a variable ease based on which difficulty setting you have. If you're saying that the script is a partially aware being that decides what sort of choices you have, it doesn't change the fact that there's a gaping plot hole in the "superbly written" first game that exists for the sole purpose of forcing a dramatic scene when there was a very clear and obvious third option.

It's the designer that's aware, of course, not the script.

So all you're saying is that Bio should have gone to greater lengths to show that this third option wasn't actually viable? You've got no problem with the actual choice, just the presentation? If so, I guess we don't have a real disagreement. But again, it's not like Virmire is any different from anything else in the game, which always puts arbitrary restrictions on you. Non-sandbox RPGs generally do.

How would you have presented the dilemma, anyway? Bear in mind that a difficulty-based solution can't work since players have all kinds of different skill levels.

And believe me, I'm not trying to defend ME1 in particular. I think its script is fairly typical Bioware work. While I'm obviously a Bio fan or I wouldn't have been here this long, there are some things that they think are not worth the trouble. Buying a Bio game means that you've bought yourself a ticket on the GM railroad, and you might as well accept the fact.

Really, all they'd have to do is change the timing a bit, or not give you the option of taking out the aerial defense towers and change the method of bomb delivery, or set it up so that we're not placing the bomb open-air environment that the Normandy can land several feet from. Basically, any time you give the Normandy any sort of freedom, you have to actually pay attention to what you're writing (the issue I had with the end of BTDS). Hell, just adding in some sort of weak hand-wave for why you couldn't do a quick-drop of your ship-bound forces (as easy as "no good, Shepard, I've got geth ships on my tail, trying to shake 'em") would have been much less insulting.

ME2 may have had a lack of really universe-shattering choices, but they at least weren't pointlessly binary for the sake of making nerds feel empowered.

[Chuvvy]

Facial animations. There are so many herp de derp faces in ME2. And lots of cross eyes. That point of interest thing is dumb I don't stare creepily at someone while they're having a conversation. Who does that?


Oh, that guy does.

Modifié par Slidell505, 07 juin 2010 - 07:36 .

[KalosCast]

Ah yes, the "Bioware Face" that creepy blank look of dedicated eye contact two characters give each other when in conversation that actually first became famous with Oblivion. We have dismissed these claims.

[Kalfear]

Darth Drago wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

I hate to say it, but maybe game developers should go look to the games of the past to get good ideas from. Then give it a modern upgrade. 

Gotta agree with this. There are so many old titles from way back that could simply be upgraded a little and modernized and they'd still have far more depth than most of today's titles. What I wouldn't give for a modern take on the likes of Midwinter 2, It Came From the Desert (BioWare could probably do an excellent job of something like this), Frontier, Covert Action, The Clue and the aforementioned Liberation.

-We can only dream I guess.
I keep hoping that Bethesda will pull a rabbit out its development team and go sci-fi with a new title one day.

Part of what really annoyed me in ME2 was the imersion breakers, the lack of depth of the game levels and general creativity. Not just the Mission Over screen or the thermal clip ammo fiasco but all the other little things that add up to an icky blah feeling.

Having a targeting box (or whatever it is) suddenly lock in on the bad guys (no spoilers please) on the N7: Anomalous Weather Detected quest. It was a great environment to walk around on with the heavy fog. All ruined by the auto lock of your targeting device. Imagine the fun if you didn’t have it auto lock and you practically walked right up to those things on that planet?

The N7: Wrecked Merchant Freighter quest is just the same really. The storm hits and visibility doesn’t really change and no weather effects at all.

On Thane’s recruiting mission when you get to the bridge, does the wind actually affect anything? Consider all the dialog about how windy it is up there by everyone that mentioned it.

How about a really dark location for a quest for once? Something with very limited lighting to make you jump at every sound. Now fill it with the occasional husk encounter. Give it a twist when you find the power to activate the lights, you also open all the doors that were locked and sealed.

Add in a new dimension with things that crawl or walk on the walls or ceilings, even flying things (more than those stupid tech drones). A prefect example is the simple spider in any fantasy game like DAO, all ground restricted for all movement. “Oh look its another Varren to shoot. Yawn.” Cant surprise us with a few of them actually leaping through the air like big cats can you?

LOL, I hated those flying drones (except when I had overload available of course)

You know what I really missed in ME2, puzzle missions like the AI CORE on Noveria in ME1

Why did EVERYTHING have to be guns and shooting?

As for old games redone.

I vote Bioware redoes all the old SSI gold box games!

I know someone did one not to long ago but I heard it was very bad so never tried it.

Pool of Radiance
Curse of Azure Bonds
The Dragonlance ones

I know its not Sci fi but Id really like a new D&D game based on the oldd systems, just updated (course I have DA:O so cant really complain there).

For Sci Fi, a Cyberpunk style game would be awsome.

Mythic was doing a Sci fi MMORPG before they were bought out based on what if the romans were never defeated in world history.

Gotta admit, if done in a Mass Effect adult setting, that sounds very interesting.
Now Mythic apart of EA and that title was cancelled, maybe BW could do somethig with it as well

[Jebel Krong]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Let me add this. The ME2 supporters and ME1 supporters are clearly divided mostly between what their priorities are. Priority for story and characters make up a good percentage of the ME1 supporters whereas priority on limited character interaction that doesn't "drag" or interfere with combat, the most IMPORTANT part of any and all video games, make up a good percentage of ME2 supporters.

how do you know what the makeup of either consumer-base is? besides you keep saying me2 has "less character interaction" when it clearly has a lot more (and a lot more characetr, to boot). i will agree that some have a little short shrift, depending on *your* gender and romance options, but most have at least equal to me1, if not more, and even the npcs have a lot more dialogue in various scenes than was in me1.

[KitsuneRommel]

Kalfear wrote...

You know what I really missed in ME2, puzzle missions like the AI CORE on Noveria in ME1

Why did EVERYTHING have to be guns and shooting?

The problem with puzzles is that they always end up as either too easy for people who like puzzles or too hard for everyone else. Personally I love doing puzzles like Theseus and the Minotaur.

For Sci Fi, a Cyberpunk style game would be awsome.

I've been in love with the genre ever since watching Blade Runner and playing Neuromancer.

[spacehamsterZH]

KitsuneRommel wrote...
I know plenty RPG fans who didn't like either Mass Effect because they don't believe FPS/TPS (shooter) mechanics belong in RPGs. They'd say we are all wrong.

See, I can understand that. I don't agree and I think it's unfortunate that so many people expect games to fit neatly into some preconceived genre category, but at least it's a viewpoint that has a reasoning behind it that makes sense.

iakus wrote...

And for the record, I suppose I am an ME2 "hater", but for story reasons more than gameplay

The big difference between you and the numbnutses who flooded the ten pages after our exchange is that you're capable of explaining your viewpoint in a way other people can follow and without constantly injecting it with condescension for everyone who doesn't agree with you.See, I've got this thing where I think the point of a healthy debate is to either come to some sort of compromise (not really the goal here) or to at least reason through your respective viewpoints until you can understand why other people don't share your opinion and/or yours has been challenged enough so that you've had to reconsider it. I know that's completely unheard of and most of us would rather just scream and throw feces at each other - we do share 98% of our genetic material with chimps after all - but... yeah. One can dream, I guess.

[Jebel Krong]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

spacehamsterZH wrote...

I'm sorry, I tend to ignore the Gears of War comparisons outright. I've played both games, and a) they have next to nothing in common and  Mass Effect 2 is superior in just about every conceivable way. All the devs said was that they looked at other games, Gears being one of them, for how to get something right that they had already attempted with ME1. But the pausing, the time-dilating powers and the more complex squad controls (the latter being absent from ME1's oh-so-much-smarter combat, we note in passing) are still there, and they're not elements you typically find in shooters because they don't mesh well with multiplayer gaming.

Granted, the word "shooter" got thrown around so much in the marketing that it really is puzzling given how little the game actually has in common with real shooters.

Lol, denial is not just a river in Egypt, its a post made by spacehamsterZH.

Bioware would disagree with you Im afraid. Even the Gears of War dev team would disagree with you:

Here.

"The thing that was cool was that Mass Effect is kind of an RPG for me,
with the cover-based shooting. I think there's a reason why it's been
successful. Because gamers love Gears"

Even Cliff Bleszinski thinks shooter gamers loving Gears of War is a reason for ME2s success (despite sales being nowhere near a GOW game).

his opinion (CliffyB's), not fact. He has come out and said in several interviews now that he admires what the mass effect games have done to deepen the genres, though - which is good because it pushes the other developers and makes all games better.

[Jebel Krong]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

You know what I really missed in ME2, puzzle missions like the AI CORE on Noveria in ME1

Why did EVERYTHING have to be guns and shooting?

The problem with puzzles is that they always end up as either too easy for people who like puzzles or too hard for everyone else. Personally I love doing puzzles like Theseus and the Minotaur.

For Sci Fi, a Cyberpunk style game would be awsome.

I've been in love with the genre ever since watching Blade Runner and playing Neuromancer.

The original Deus Ex was close, maybe Deus Ex 3 will be it - their just-released trailer is stunning: here

[Kalfear]

Holy Sheep dump, that looked good!



Thanks for heads up, need to look into that game more

[Jebel Krong]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Posted this as a reply over at a Tali board, but it seems to me the Social is overrun with shooter fans whereas the original boards RPG fans made up the majority. 

or perhaps the more likely scenario is that the makeup of fans hasn't changed, nor has their appreciation for what they games actually are (rather than what they wish it was). the fact that most people like both games, and #2 even more - universally - doesn't make them "wrong" or, somehow, "reduce" them to mere fans of one particular gametype, other than in your head.

[Jebel Krong]

Kalfear wrote...

Holy Sheep dump, that looked good!

Thanks for heads up, need to look into that game more

yes the cgi is done by square (since they bought eidos), the game's being done by eidos montreal, and even in-game it looks stunning (not that there have been many in-game shots released yet). if they use some of the concepts in the trailer and explore it as well as the first game in the series it could be awesome.

[Mister Mida]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

Holy Sheep dump, that looked good!

Thanks for heads up, need to look into that game more

yes the cgi is done by square (since they bought eidos), the game's being done by eidos montreal, and even in-game it looks stunning (not that there have been many in-game shots released yet). if they use some of the concepts in the trailer and explore it as well as the first game in the series it could be awesome.

I've seen this trailer a few days ago and I was like 'Damn, that looks good!'. Never played one of the previous Deus Ex games myself, but this one I'm definitely gonna check out.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 07 juin 2010 - 09:52 .

[Kalfear]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

Holy Sheep dump, that looked good!

Thanks for heads up, need to look into that game more

yes the cgi is done by square (since they bought eidos), the game's being done by eidos montreal, and even in-game it looks stunning (not that there have been many in-game shots released yet). if they use some of the concepts in the trailer and explore it as well as the first game in the series it could be awesome.

Yup, found they calling it a RPG/Action game so I hope they learned from Biowares mistake and focused evenly on RPG and action and not one more then other!

Still, sounds like a solid storyline with similiar type combat abilities to ME2 (cloaking, hiding behind objects, Mechs, ect)

heh, joined the facebook channel so ill get news on game now as it releases.

Thanks for link Jebel

[Jebel Krong]

you are very welcome

[CroGamer002]

Some Geth wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

200 pages of disappointment. This is what you have wrought. Are you happy BioWare???

LOL they don't CARE AT ALL 

More like 201 pages of whining.
That's why they don't care.

[Mister Mida]

Hey Mesina, where is your motivational?

[Lumikki]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

 http://social.bioware.com/poll.php?user=1460935&poll_id=6471

You poll here is 100% useless for me, because I can't even vote, becouse limited choises.

When You people learn that there is ALOT of people who actually likes both games equal ways. You are trying to say here to me, does red apple taste better than green apple. Both ME's have small differences how some part of the game are design and how much content they has. Both has good side and bad side. But in the end it comes to player, can you accept the game as it is and enjoy it. If You can't because your own feelings, too bad for you. I feel sorry for people so narrow taste of games.

I'm RPG player and don't like first person shooters. How ever, I can like both Mass Effects fine, because I understand that both of them have very little true traditional RPG side at all. Both games feels more like cinematic action adventure game where player guides this great character trough the story in Mass Effect universe.

Modifié par Lumikki, 07 juin 2010 - 10:54 .

[CroGamer002]

Mister Mida wrote...

Hey Mesina, where is your motivational?

Can't decide what picture to use with words I used.

[CroGamer002]

Lumikki wrote...

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

 http://social.bioware.com/poll.php?user=1460935&poll_id=6471

You poll here is 100% useless for me, because I can't even vote, becouse limited choises.

When You people learn that there is ALOT of people who actually likes both games equal ways. You are trying to say here to me, does red apple taste better than green apple. Both ME's have small differences how some part of the game are design and how much content they has. Both has good side and bad side. But in the end it comes to player, can you accept the game as it is and enjoy it. If You can't because your own feelings, too bad for you. I feel sorry for people so narrow taste of games.

I'm RPG player and don't like first person shooters. How ever, I can like both Mass Effects fine, because I understand that both of them have very little true traditional RPG side at all. Both games feels more like cinematic action adventure game where player guides this great character trough the story in Mass Effect universe.

100% agree.

[spacehamsterZH]

The poll is just typical for SaBM. He refuses to accept the possiblity that someone could actually like both story and combat and look for a good blend of both in their games. You're either on his side, or you're a shooter fan.



It's kind of funny how people can say it's annoying how shooter fans expect every game with a gun in it to be exactly the way they want it (and that breed of shooter fan certainly exists) and then... complain that ME2 doesn't fit their narrow definition of what an RPG is. No, shooter fans aren't entitled to every game with a gun in it, but RPG fans are also not entitled to every game with a character stat system.

[tonnactus]

Pocketgb wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

ss Effect 2 insanity? Not even a rocket is enough to kill the player.The simple solution is it to just go to cover for some seconds.This game is tediuos, but not challenging.

We've already gone over how both games are fairly easy, just due to different reasons.

Fine.
Suggestion how to make biotic and tech powers balanced to the massive advantage combat powers get?

[tonnactus]

Aphexdash wrote...

ME1 for me was a 9/10

ME2 for me was a 7/10

ME2 felt too dumbed down / Consolized (for me).

ME1 was great, planet exploration, inventory, deep Talent trees, smaller group of supporting cast so you grew more attached to them.

ME2 was pretty good, but playing it on a PC makes you realise how much was Catered to for console players who found an 'Inventory' and talent customization too complex.

Stop this nonsense.A pc vs. console war isnt needed in this thread.If you look at the sales numbers of Oblivion and Fallout you could see that console players like games with some complexity.
Despite the fact that the spell lists of oblivion was a real horror compared to the inventory of the first Mass Effect game.

[tonnactus]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...
How did Grunt and Mordin didn't add much more depth to the genophage question?

Because when you take grunt to mordins mission and vice versa no one make a comment or discuss about the decision at the end.Nothing comparable to the situation if you take wrex to noveria.
The only depth added mordins mission have is the one to mordins character.Thats it.