10273 réponses à ce sujet

[ShakeZoohla]

Kalfear wrote...

I gave it a fair and reasonable 6.7 ranking outta 10 and stated many times over and over (of course you didnt read any of those....right?) that if ME2 had simply been made its own IP and not the follow up of ME1 (a ground breaking action RPG game) it would be a 8.5 game. But it was made as a follow up and fell short because of its removal of RPG elements and weak story!

But hey, dont let the FACTS get in your way BB

I actually think its pretty universally agreed upon that ME2 failed at being a proper sequel, whether some people are willing to admit it or not.  There are just too many people who loved the first game and are now disapointed by the second to make a valid argument otherwise.

[AlanC9]

Kalfear wrote...
I calmly let you know that Excaels nonsence has been disproved by others l"

Except it wasn't. 

[AlanC9]

ShakeZoohla wrote...

I actually think its pretty universally agreed upon that ME2 failed at being a proper sequel, whether some people are willing to admit it or not.  There are just too many people who loved the first game and are now disapointed by the second to make a valid argument otherwise.

By "too many" you mean a large percentage, obviously. Is that percentage large? Gamespot user reviews don't show any pattern of ME1 fans not liking ME2 because it changed stuff from ME1. A few didn't like the changes, a lot did.

I see a minority of people who really don't like the changes, but if you've got some sort of hard data I'll look at it.

[SuperMedbh]

I think I'm going to take my leave of this thread. There have been some interesting discussions about game theory and audience likes/dislikes, but there's far too much hackle raising (yes, it took me this long to decide that-- I'm slow, what can I say).



I'd love to see a thread somewhere about what people like in cRPGs. But I have to admit, I suspect the ME1 v. ME2 vitriol would flow there, too.



Thanks to all of you who took the time to write thoughtful posts. You made me think, and sometimes giggle a bit too.

[William Adama]

I miss the ability to tinker with my weapons, armor and shields. Bring looting back and I will be happier. Bring the elevators and decontamination room back and the game will be fantastic.



Its all immersion, keep the player IN the universe. Sequels should ONLY add features, not subtract them.

[Lumikki]

I'm gonna recomment moderators to close this thread and open new one if needed. Then moderate it more aggressive. Reason, topic isn't anymore about game feedback, it's about people (or group of people) in this thread. Gone from hostality to even direct insults.

Modifié par Lumikki, 08 juin 2010 - 01:02 .

[PhoenixBlue]

Bring the elevators and decontamination room back and the game will be fantastic.

That's got to be the first time I've heard someone say this. Clearly elevators are a Reaper invention, as they're all over the Citadel in ME1; and I think elevators probably played a role in the Protheans' death.



On a serious note, I'll grant that the elevators were marginally more entertaining than ME2's loading screens, but they were also overdone, especially in the Citadel and, imo, on Noveria.

[Kalfear]

PhoenixBlue wrote...

Bring the elevators and decontamination room back and the game will be fantastic.

That's got to be the first time I've heard someone say this. Clearly elevators are a Reaper invention, as they're all over the Citadel in ME1; and I think elevators probably played a role in the Protheans' death.

On a serious note, I'll grant that the elevators were marginally more entertaining than ME2's loading screens, but they were also overdone, especially in the Citadel and, imo, on Noveria.

naa, not over done.

To much repitition of conversations

The conversations there was were AWSOME and I gotta admit, I intentionally rode elevatoors in ME1 just to hear the interaction sequences.

But it got fustrating when you heard the same one over and over.

They needed more in ME1 to avoid repitition is all.

[cachx]

SuperMedbh wrote...

I think I'm going to take my leave of this thread. There have been some interesting discussions about game theory and audience likes/dislikes, but there's far too much hackle raising (yes, it took me this long to decide that-- I'm slow, what can I say).

I'd love to see a thread somewhere about what people like in cRPGs. But I have to admit, I suspect the ME1 v. ME2 vitriol would flow there, too.

Thanks to all of you who took the time to write thoughtful posts. You made me think, and sometimes giggle a bit too.

Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines...

I love both games, but I feel he need to step in every time I see unfair bashing, name calling, opinion passed on as fact or the very rare ocassion where a good point is being made. This thread goes to the same cycle every few pages, point is made, discussion ensues, a bit of trolling here and there, facts are ignored, and then it starts up again...

[Darth Drago]

[quote]Lumikki wrote...

I'm gonna recomment moderators to close this thread and open new one if needed. Then moderate it more aggressive. Reason, topic isn't anymore about game feedback, it's about people (or group of people) in this thread. Gone from hostality to even direct insults.
[/quote]
-While I agree that in the last few days this topic has been hit by a lot of posters who cant respect each others opinions and I have tried a few times to redirect them to read the basic rules I set up for this topic. However I don’t think this topic beyond saving.

So again I’ll repost what this topic is about and the rules that is needed to follow to keep it civil in here. I’ll even highlight some key things for those who cant be bothered to read long posts.
　

Since a few of these topics have been locked down for one reason or another as well it seems one gets created each day or so, it would be in everyone’s best interest to have a central topic for this.

Whether or not you love Mass Effect 1, Mass Effect 2 or both games. There is some concern by several of us about the changes that were made to the game franchise. This topic is to be used to point out what some of us didn’t like in those changes and why. Hopefully, from those that did like the changes, get their viewpoint as to why they like them as well. There is no right or wrong answer here, just various perspectives on two games from those that play them.



Simple rules to follow:
1. Be respectful of the views and opinions posted in here, for or against the headline topic. If you don’t like what was said that’s fine but don’t reply with a negative attack on that person.
2. All opinions and views are welcome, for or against the headline topic. If you love Mass Effect 2 but think we are wrong that’s fine, give us your perspective on why you love Mass Effect 2 over Mass Effect 1.
3. Be mindful that this is in the “No Spoilers” section. However some minor spoilers may show up from time to time.
4. Please, no pictures in your posting unless it pertains to the topic.
5. Do not feed any trolls that may appear. Just ignore them.
[/quote]

Modifié par Darth Drago, 08 juin 2010 - 02:12 .

[SithLordExarKun]

Kalfear wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Hell, you could have said the same thing about ME1 itself, or Jade Empire before that. The only difference is that you personally liked ME1 and didn't like ME2.

To quote you and yours troll boy

You keep saying it but that doesnt make it true!

Many people have tried to explain in detail that ME1 and ME2 were not the same (Jade Empire wasnt even remotely close to ME1 or ME2 in any fashion) and they have made great detailed discussions explaining why. Some in really small words and simple reasonings that likes of you and Sheppardwrex and Sithlordexurkun could even understand but here you are trolling yet again with the same old crap!

Im not going to bother recapping all the differences that made ME1 ME2 not only different but different enough that they considered two completely different genres. One (ME1) is considered a Action RPG, The other (ME2) is considered a TPS.

Quit trying to troll peoples posts with stupid 1 liners and try actually ADDING to the discussion for a change!

Think you can do that troll boy or we going to get yet anouther quirky and meaningless one liner in responce

HAHAHA you're the only real troll here. Seriously kalfear why are you even posting? Don't you have a JOB in real life seeing that you post here non stop?

[KalosCast]

Kalfear wrote...

oh good, more useless 1 liner trolling!

I was worried a actual conversation would break out for a sec

It's not trolling if it takes me less than seven words to show how much you fail at making a point, but still tote it around as fact.

[SithLordExarKun]

Kalfear wrote...



Hey kiddies, want to convince me your right, PROVE it. Debate it and make solid arguements that cant be
easily torn apart by simple logic (Like Ecaels arguements have been).

You keep posting one line whines and im going to keep refering to you as trolls as thats all your doing!

Yes, thats what everybody has been doing, but you simple ignore  anything that proves you
wrong. So far everybody that proves you wrong = troll!

You ask for solid arguments, you get it, but you call them trolls and say they
are wrong. You ask for solid evidence, you get it, but you call them trolls because you refuse to accept it.

Kalfear wrote...

BlackyBlack wrote...

Kalfear, why don't you read all of Ecael's posts 'cos I'm pretty sure he/she can disprove all of your theories

Thats been covered earlier and actual, he/she cant

he/she can only create new theories that frankly only get accepted by the "ME2 is perfect" crowd.

All his/her/it theories have been rationally countered and dismissed by others long before me.

Plus I dont interact with children that post big pictures rather then words and personally I think the idiotic pokemon rpg thread in the spoiler section shows Ecaels true motives on the topic.

See, I can answer in more then 1 line

You keep saying her posts were dismissed by other people, yet i see absolutely nobody doing so.

Kalf, you're a disgrace seriously, people actually prove you wrong and you absolutely refuse to accept it and still try to argue like you're the end be all. Anybody who disagrees with you = troll, anybody who likes ME2 over ME1 troll, people who proves you wrong = troll.

Really, ecael made VERY logical points, but you, simply being the arrogant individual you are w, simply chooses to ignore it because you cannot accept being wrong and is simple way to arrogant to do so.

You ask for people to make logical arguments and provide evidence, yet when people do so, you refuse it and accuse them of trolling instead and on the other hand, you yourself has yet to even offer a single shred of proof other than your own deluded opinions which always get proven wrong.

Seriously, the only one acting like a child on this board is you, yes thats right, nobody else but you.

Modifié par SithLordExarKun, 08 juin 2010 - 03:12 .

[KotOREffecT]

cachx wrote...

SuperMedbh wrote...

I think I'm going to take my leave of this thread. There have been some interesting discussions about game theory and audience likes/dislikes, but there's far too much hackle raising (yes, it took me this long to decide that-- I'm slow, what can I say).

I'd love to see a thread somewhere about what people like in cRPGs. But I have to admit, I suspect the ME1 v. ME2 vitriol would flow there, too.

Thanks to all of you who took the time to write thoughtful posts. You made me think, and sometimes giggle a bit too.

Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines...

I love both games, but I feel he need to step in every time I see unfair bashing, name calling, opinion passed on as fact or the very rare ocassion where a good point is being made. This thread goes to the same cycle every few pages, point is made, discussion ensues, a bit of trolling here and there, facts are ignored, and then it starts up again...

It's pretty much been that way since ME 2 was released and about a month or so later, thats when the heated debates between all things ME 1 and 2 from everything like the mako/hammerhead to even the small things. After the things that were said that needed to be applied to ME 3 to better the game that were weaker in ME 2 had been disscused and taken in by the developers, it was pretty much lets all bash ME 2 and have a ME 1 nostalgia freakin bong fire why don't we.. Not that there is anything wrong with nostalgia, because there isn't esp when it comes to a great game like ME 1.

But then there is only so much nit picking and trashing some can do, and even elitist bullying. I mostly see the hardcore rpgers on the attack most of the time, like they have something to prove. I also think they think that they are somehow the "majorty" at times, and thats not really the case. Esp when the web is a pretty big place, and so is the outside of a computer.

Another thing really, is you rarely see people who really enjoyed ME 2 gloat about it as much as you have seen in so many of the ME2 "not happy topics", atleast on these forums anyway. So it may seem like ME 2 has completely failed at times by these forums standards, which is just simply not the case. I for example, have rarely posted in this topic because in a sense its the same stuff over and over. I like many others(darthcaine,ecael,darth jaydar,many others) pretty much did the same stuff in this topic in many other heated topics months ago and even with some familiar faces(ahem dinkamus littlelog,etc).

What's been said has been said, now its just lets keep knocking on ME 2, even some petty stuff that is def not fact and is def opinion but many of the hardcore rpgers/elitists would have you believe it is fact, is once again simply not at times. And I can imagine it gets old arguing about that, thats why so many of the people who really enjoy not just ME 2 but ME 1 don't really care anymore....

Modifié par KotOREffecT, 08 juin 2010 - 02:52 .

[calabain]

KotOREffecT wrote...

cachx wrote...

SuperMedbh wrote...

I think I'm going to take my leave of this thread. There have been some interesting discussions about game theory and audience likes/dislikes, but there's far too much hackle raising (yes, it took me this long to decide that-- I'm slow, what can I say).

I'd love to see a thread somewhere about what people like in cRPGs. But I have to admit, I suspect the ME1 v. ME2 vitriol would flow there, too.

Thanks to all of you who took the time to write thoughtful posts. You made me think, and sometimes giggle a bit too.

Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines...

I love both games, but I feel he need to step in every time I see unfair bashing, name calling, opinion passed on as fact or the very rare ocassion where a good point is being made. This thread goes to the same cycle every few pages, point is made, discussion ensues, a bit of trolling here and there, facts are ignored, and then it starts up again...

It's pretty much been that way since ME 2 was released and about a month or so later, thats when the heated debates between all things ME 1 and 2 from everything like the mako/hammerhead to even the small things. After the things that were said that needed to be applied to ME 3 to better the game that were weaker in ME 2 had been disscused and taken in by the developers, it was pretty much lets all bash ME 2 and have a ME 1 nostalgia freakin bong fire why don't we.. Not that there is anything wrong with nostalgia, because there isn't esp when it comes to a great game like ME 1.

But then there is only so much nit picking and trashing some can do, and even elitist bullying. I mostly see the hardcore rpgers on the attack most of the time, like they have something to prove. I also think they think that they are somehow the "majorty" at times, and thats not really the case. Esp when the web is a pretty big place, and so is the outside of a computer.

Another thing really, is you rarely see people who really enjoyed ME 2 gloat about it as much as you have seen in so many of the ME2 "not happy topics", atleast on these forums anyway. So it may seem like ME 2 has completely failed at times by these forums standards, which is just simply not the case. I for example, have rarely posted in this topic because in a sense its the same stuff over and over. I like many others(darthcaine,ecael,darth jaydar,many others) pretty much did the same stuff in this topic in many other heated topics months ago and even with some familiar faces(ahem dinkamus littlelog,etc).

What's been said has been said, now its just lets keep knocking on ME 2, even some petty stuff that is def not fact and is def opinion but many of the hardcore rpgers/elitists would have you believe it is fact, is once again simply not at times. And I can imagine it gets old arguing about that, thats why so many of the people who really enjoy not just ME 2 but ME 1 don't really care anymore....

Personally other than more squad interaction and acknowledgement of each other (bringing tali and garrus to see wrex or liara and having them not even acknowledge each other was kinda jarring) and having a stronger sense of purpose for the third game I'm pretty much good.  Honestly though this kinda nostalgia bomb for the first game is to be expected

[Pocketgb]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Really, ecael made VERY logical points, but you, simply being the 40 year old pedophille who lives in his parents basement, simply chooses to ignore it because you cannot accept being wrong and is simple way to arrogant to do so....

Whoa dude, how is giving him that label helping anything, lease of all yourself?
We may be in the same book here but wow, that's the most slanderous thing I've seen on a forum that's not 4chan. So quit it.

And Darth, if you want to actually encourage discussion - as opposed to this thread getting stuck in the sea of insults, high-fives and "QFT!!!"s - then help Kalfear with finding the posts that are were good points against what Ecael has provided:

Kalfear wrote...
I calmly let you know that Excaels nonsence
has been disproved by others l"

Modifié par Pocketgb, 08 juin 2010 - 02:56 .

[KalosCast]

I think a lot of the Tali and Garrus not interacting with your old squadmates is because they were only added because the creepier but stunningly vocal side of the ME fanbase wouldn't shut up about it. Same reason they're LI's actually.

[calabain]

KalosCast wrote...

I think a lot of the Tali and Garrus not interacting with your old squadmates is because they were only added because the creepier but stunningly vocal side of the ME fanbase wouldn't shut up about it. Same reason they're LI's actually.

Probably, which is too bad because in my opinion Garrus is actually better in ME2 than he was in ME1 and Tali has been one of the strongest characters over both games, woulda been nice to see them fleshed out more. Would have been nice to see your entire team fleshed out more. 

I feel like Bioware was originally planning on having your team from ME1 having a much stronger presence in ME3, and that, like you said, Garrus/Tali was an afterthought

[KalosCast]

calabain wrote...

KalosCast wrote...

I think a lot of the Tali and Garrus not interacting with your old squadmates is because they were only added because the creepier but stunningly vocal side of the ME fanbase wouldn't shut up about it. Same reason they're LI's actually.

Probably, which is too bad because in my opinion Garrus is actually better in ME2 than he was in ME1 and Tali has been one of the strongest characters over both games, woulda been nice to see them fleshed out more. Would have been nice to see your entire team fleshed out more. 

I feel like Bioware was originally planning on having your team from ME1 having a much stronger presence in ME3, and that, like you said, Garrus/Tali was an afterthought

I will not even come close to agreeing with you that Tali was a strong anything in either game, she was a blob of exposition in an environment suit in ME1, and she's a blob of exposition in an environement suit with worse self-esteem issues than the first game in ME2. This is despite the entire goddamn Migrant Fleet worshipping their engineer and putting her on a roughly Mary Suetastic pedastal.

Garrus is much better written in ME2 than he was in ME1, has a lot more depth and motivation for why he believes and acts the way he does, but there's still a major issue with him, and that's the simple fact that he goes through the exact same character development in ME2 that he had in ME1. Even if in ME1 you convince him the need to consistently follow due process, and even talk him into shaping up and re-applying for Spectre candidacy, he still ends up being another one of those "as long as the bad guys die" cowboy cops (well, cowboy mercenaries this time) that he was in ME1.

I know that the story for ME2 went through about a dozen rewrites, and that's probably a good reason for a bit of the wonkiness. Bioware was remembering or assuming things that they wrote for the previous version. Hence why Legion, the most hyped character in any video game in the history of hyping characters (have games hyped a character before?) is barely a third-class member of your dream team with only a few throwaway hilarious misunderstandings beyond his recruitement and loyalty missions. But that's just my theory.

[SithLordExarKun]

Pocketgb wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Really, ecael made VERY logical points, but you, simply being the 40 year old pedophille who lives in his parents basement, simply chooses to ignore it because you cannot accept being wrong and is simple way to arrogant to do so....

Whoa dude, how is giving him that label helping anything, lease of all yourself?
We may be in the same book here but wow, that's the most slanderous thing I've seen on a forum that's not 4chan. So quit it.

Thing is i can stop it, but the question is would kalf stop his nonsense? He enjoys trolling people and needs to feel how it is to get trolled.

Pocketgb wrote...
And Darth, if you want to actually encourage discussion - as opposed to this thread getting stuck in the sea of insults, high-fives and "QFT!!!"s - then help Kalfear with finding the posts that are were good points against what Ecael has provided:

You DO know ecael has countered those posts or that almost nobody actually provided good points against ecael in the pokemen thread?

I don't mind good discussions taking place, i DO mind kalfear rattling peoples cages and turning everything into a crapfest, pretty childish for a 40 year old guy to do that wouldn,t you say?

[calabain]

KalosCast wrote...

calabain wrote...

KalosCast wrote...

I think a lot of the Tali and Garrus not interacting with your old squadmates is because they were only added because the creepier but stunningly vocal side of the ME fanbase wouldn't shut up about it. Same reason they're LI's actually.

Probably, which is too bad because in my opinion Garrus is actually better in ME2 than he was in ME1 and Tali has been one of the strongest characters over both games, woulda been nice to see them fleshed out more. Would have been nice to see your entire team fleshed out more. 

I feel like Bioware was originally planning on having your team from ME1 having a much stronger presence in ME3, and that, like you said, Garrus/Tali was an afterthought

I will not even come close to agreeing with you that Tali was a strong anything in either game, she was a blob of exposition in an environment suit in ME1, and she's a blob of exposition in an environement suit with worse self-esteem issues than the first game in ME2. This is despite the entire goddamn Migrant Fleet worshipping their engineer and putting her on a roughly Mary Suetastic pedastal.

Garrus is much better written in ME2 than he was in ME1, has a lot more depth and motivation for why he believes and acts the way he does, but there's still a major issue with him, and that's the simple fact that he goes through the exact same character development in ME2 that he had in ME1. Even if in ME1 you convince him the need to consistently follow due process, and even talk him into shaping up and re-applying for Spectre candidacy, he still ends up being another one of those "as long as the bad guys die" cowboy cops (well, cowboy mercenaries this time) that he was in ME1.

I know that the story for ME2 went through about a dozen rewrites, and that's probably a good reason for a bit of the wonkiness. Bioware was remembering or assuming things that they wrote for the previous version. Hence why Legion, the most hyped character in any video game in the history of hyping characters (have games hyped a character before?) is barely a third-class member of your dream team with only a few throwaway hilarious misunderstandings beyond his recruitement and loyalty missions. But that's just my theory.

I dunno, for some reason Tali always stuck out to me and I can't help but like her, although that may be because I've always had a soft spot for species like her own in all sci-fi books or movies that I read/watch, probably just personal bias sneaking in. To each his own, you raise valid points about the weaknesses of both characters.

[Pocketgb]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Thing is i can stop it, but the question is would kalf stop his nonsense? He enjoys trolling people and needs to feel how it is to get trolled.

Kal has been saying the exact same thing about other people, and he's also been getting in these name-calling merry-go-round's on the basis that "they said it first!".

If you believe someone to be trolling I'll say to you what I said to him, and that's to tell you to follow the golden rule of the internet: Don't feed the trolls!
Plus this thread moves pretty quickly, so if you think he made a big post that offered nothing to the discussion just ignore it and it'll get buried.

SithLordExarKun wrote...

You DO know ecael has countered those posts or that almost nobody actually provided good points against ecael in the pokemen thread?

Yes and yes. I'm very fond of what Ecael's provided since we both share the same viewpoint. I'm merely suggesting to the person who is moderating the thread to actually offer to both discussons and viewpoints as opposed to keeping things massively one-sided.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 08 juin 2010 - 03:42 .

[SithLordExarKun]

Fair enough, ill stop

[Kalfear]

oh goodie, trollordsithexarkun came to bottom out the thread even more!

yahhh for gang mentality!!

Btw, I should point out, I no longer read any posts by Sithlordexarkun, Alan9, and Sheppardwrex but if you 3 want to keep attacking me with nonsence, feel free, Im not reading it.

so troll away, all the power to you, I think everyone knows what you are and I have more then enough people talking topics with me that your not missed in any way!

So lie, cheat, steal, and troll your way to cyber fanhood if you think you can. Personally I think more folks have already and will continue to just tune you out like Im doing!

As for other people (Kalos) pickingup the Prove it mantle. Maybe its just me (actually I know its not) but I havent seen you or yours prove a single statement you made either so why the double standard? Why myself and everyone else you disagree with have to prove everything but you and yours prove nothing?

Maybe you should sit back and think on that for a change rather then pass off stupid one liners that mix up with the above mentioned trolls.

If you dont like being associated to them as trolls, quit acting like them and engage in real discussion and thought provoking conversation!

1 liners are for twitter and other word challenged persons

LOL, I will say one thing, I learned my lesson today about posting just after school hours let out (normally im not even awke then). From now on ill wait till the 11 pm bed time hour passes before posting to avoid upsetting the kiddies.

Modifié par Kalfear, 08 juin 2010 - 03:50 .

[Pocketgb]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Fair enough, ill stop

Good work. I know how you feel, too: it's pretty tempting.