10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Drago]

smudboy wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...
-Time constraints? It wouldn’t take an experienced writer no more than a few days to a week to write the lines for each squad mate to use before main production even began.
-Budget constraint? How so? Everyone is still getting paid to write, voice acting and facial dialog animation already.
-Technical constraint? Again how? If they already say a line whats the difference of adding actual original lines in place of the same generic ones? They already are doing the dialog animation so there really isn’t any technical issues to deal with.
Like its been mentioned already in Dragon Age and a bunch of OLDER games your companions will have actual conversations with each other. Having a few original lines and a bunch of generic reused lines per loyalty mission instead of all original dialog is nothing but laziness as I see it.

Just an aside here. Since BioWare has "made their bed, and must now sleep in it." If they provide DLC (Like the Overload DLC) or any content, that doesn't involve one of these characters in some way, saying or doing something, then they're shot themselves in the foot. They must work with the universe, characters and narrative they themselves created. (Especially, when they say the theme is loyalty, or when one explores places that are intimiately important to certain characters yet they have no say and are simply "excess baggage" because a game mechanic involves having 2 other squad members.)

-Yea, it’s a shame BioWare hasn’t learned anything about planning ahead with voice acting for future downloads. Even some generic like lines (recorded when the actors are available during the recording of the main game) for each character would have been preferred to not hearing anything at all. It would admittedly take some preplanning and thinking to come up with a few lines to cover as many possible future replies but its not impossible.

Its bad enough they didn’t add anything beyond one line for after you beat the game. Was it even one line? They should get a downloadable t-shirt saying “I survived a suicide mission and all I got was one lousy line to say about it.”

If your making a squad based game where everyone talks, then plan ahead for future downloads or use in house voice actors that you can use at short notice.

Modifié par Darth Drago, 20 juin 2010 - 04:57 .

[Terror_K]

Pocketgb wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Furthermore, if you have time and budget issues, why create so many companions in the first place? Why at the same time sideline so many established characters? Why create a new story when it would have been more efficient to continue the existing story? Why throw away levels that could've been used again (Normandy, Citadel)?

The emphasis for all of that was put elsewhere: different combat, multiple hubs, different method of story progression, etc.

And in pointless fluff such as armour customisation, collecting fish for your tank, collecting ships, the space hamster, etc.

[Pocketgb]

Terror_K wrote...

Pocketgb wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Furthermore, if you have time and budget issues, why create so many companions in the first place? Why at the same time sideline so many established characters? Why create a new story when it would have been more efficient to continue the existing story? Why throw away levels that could've been used again (Normandy, Citadel)?

The emphasis for all of that was put elsewhere: different combat, multiple hubs, different method of story progression, etc.

And in pointless fluff such as armour customisation, collecting fish for your tank, collecting ships, the space hamster, etc.

Hey, *I* had fun with Boo, dunno why you didn't

Also, bolded for emphasis since it made for a far more interesting armor system than ME1.

[InvaderErl]

The modular armor was extremely cool and much more preferable to just swapping in whole entire suits. I don't know why Terror would have a problem with that.

[Iakus]

InvaderErl wrote...

The modular armor was extremely cool and much more preferable to just swapping in whole entire suits. I don't know why Terror would have a problem with that.

I think what Terror was talking about is being able to customize the color and pattern of Shepard's armor.  While it is nice, let's face it, it's not a vital part of the game.

Modular armor wasa very cool concept.  Too bad they really didn't do anything with it.  Not enough pieces and any bonuses you get are slight.

[MassEffect762]

InvaderErl wrote...

The modular armor was extremely cool and much more preferable to just swapping in whole entire suits. I don't know why Terror would have a problem with that.

The modular armor as a good idea poorly implemented.

Sheps gets to play legos with armor while the squad settles for a re-skin.

Armor pieces have little to no impact on the games difficulty/progression aside from looking cool.

Very few Armor pieces to begin with.

It's basically just there for asthetic reasons imo and holds little bareing on the game itself.

[Terror_K]

iakus wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

The modular armor was extremely cool and much more preferable to just swapping in whole entire suits. I don't know why Terror would have a problem with that.

I think what Terror was talking about is being able to customize the color and pattern of Shepard's armor.  While it is nice, let's face it, it's not a vital part of the game.

Modular armor wasa very cool concept.  Too bad they really didn't do anything with it.  Not enough pieces and any bonuses you get are slight.

Bingo. While I actually do like all of these aspects, they really are essentially fluff that isn't crucial to the game. When more vital parts feel lacking, shallow or simply very unpolished, it just feels like this stuff would have been far better to have taken a backseat. One really doesn't have a decent excuse for other aspects lacking when unnecessary stuff like this is in there... as fun as it is.

[Chuvvy]

Terror_K wrote...

iakus wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

The modular armor was extremely cool and much more preferable to just swapping in whole entire suits. I don't know why Terror would have a problem with that.

I think what Terror was talking about is being able to customize the color and pattern of Shepard's armor.  While it is nice, let's face it, it's not a vital part of the game.

Modular armor wasa very cool concept.  Too bad they really didn't do anything with it.  Not enough pieces and any bonuses you get are slight.

Bingo. While I actually do like all of these aspects, they really are essentially fluff that isn't crucial to the game. When more vital parts feel lacking, shallow or simply very unpolished, it just feels like this stuff would have been far better to have taken a backseat. One really doesn't have a decent excuse for other aspects lacking when unnecessary stuff like this is in there... as fun as it is.

You don't know what fluff is do you? Fluff is stuff that adds time to the game, mining is a perfect example of fluff. Stuff that isn't fun and isn't necessary but adds time to the game.

[Pocketgb]

iakus wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

The modular armor was extremely cool and much more preferable to just swapping in whole entire suits. I don't know why Terror would have a problem with that.

I think what Terror was talking about is being able to customize the color and pattern of Shepard's armor.  While it is nice, let's face it, it's not a vital part of the game.

Modular armor wasa very cool concept.  Too bad they really didn't do anything with it.  Not enough pieces and any bonuses you get are slight.

I cant ever recall an instance where I failed in ME1 and thought "if only I had those awesome upgrades!"

And personally the slighter the better. Maybe it's because I've been spoiled by Guild Wars but it's much more satisfying knowing you're being successful based on what you play and how you play, not what item drop you happen to come across.

And 10% more health isn't too "slight" of an upgrade in ME2. Dying 10% slower can make the difference between a life or death situation especially for a Vanguard.

Slidell505 wrote...

You don't know what fluff is do you?
Fluff is stuff that adds time to the game, mining is a perfect example
of fluff. Stuff that isn't fun and isn't necessary but adds time to the
game.

Appearance and representation is pretty key in a game such as Mass Effect, and allowing a greater degree of this (as opposed to being stuck with the Pink Panties of Neverdie) is pretty clutch.

One could (partially) argue that if customizing Shepard's outward appearance is pointless, that the face modification could be considered pointless, too.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 20 juin 2010 - 06:15 .

[Fantom X]

 The biggest thing that I didn’t like about ME2 was the
weapons system, and making the bullet abilities powers, they should be items
not powers. The armor customization in ME2 was very small and weak, in ME1 it
was great. I loved customizing my armor and weapons.

 

I loved the upgrades in ME1 in ME2 the power ups
seemed useless for solders. I loved that the upgrades in ME1 made your shots do
5% more damage and other things.  

 

IF YOU DON’T MAKE ANY OF THE POWERS WEAPON RELATED
THAN YOU CAN USE THE SLOTS FOR MORE POWERS, LIKE MORE BIOTICS, TECK ABILYTS EXT.


 

I enjoyed playing ME1 much more than ME2.

 

[Iakus]

Pocketgb wrote...

iakus wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

The modular armor was extremely cool and much more preferable to just swapping in whole entire suits. I don't know why Terror would have a problem with that.

I think what Terror was talking about is being able to customize the color and pattern of Shepard's armor.  While it is nice, let's face it, it's not a vital part of the game.

Modular armor wasa very cool concept.  Too bad they really didn't do anything with it.  Not enough pieces and any bonuses you get are slight.

I cant ever recall an instance where I failed in ME1 and thought "if only I had those awesome upgrades!"

And personally the slighter the better. Maybe it's because I've been spoiled by Guild Wars but it's much more satisfying knowing you're being successful based on what you play and how you play, not what item drop you happen to come across.

And 10% more health isn't too "slight" of an upgrade in ME2. Dying 10% slower can make the difference between a life or death situation especially for a Vanguard.

Success or failure have little to do with it, imo.  It's personalizing your character.  Slight improvements means little room for customizing your Shepard.  If having a major boost in someting required a major tradeoff in something else, that would require more thinking on my part in what my playstyle should be.

Plus, as far as I know, all armor pieces are either purchased or DLC (not a drop, random or otherwise).  It should be a question of do I want to spend my credits on an armor piece, or a squad boost.  Which do I need more?

[AlanC9]

Darth Drago wrote...
-Yea, it’s a shame BioWare hasn’t learned anything about planning ahead with voice acting for future downloads. Even some generic like lines (recorded when the actors are available during the recording of the main game) for each character would have been preferred to not hearing anything at all. It would admittedly take some preplanning and thinking to come up with a few lines to cover as many possible future replies but its not impossible. 

I wonder if they can't do this. I have no idea what the contracts look like, but I can easily imagine the lawyers getting all in a snit about work  that may or may not appear in some unknown product at an unknown price.

[Terror_K]

AlanC9 wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...
-Yea, it’s a shame BioWare hasn’t learned anything about planning ahead with voice acting for future downloads. Even some generic like lines (recorded when the actors are available during the recording of the main game) for each character would have been preferred to not hearing anything at all. It would admittedly take some preplanning and thinking to come up with a few lines to cover as many possible future replies but its not impossible. 

I wonder if they can't do this. I have no idea what the contracts look like, but I can easily imagine the lawyers getting all in a snit about work  that may or may not appear in some unknown product at an unknown price.

No idea. Overlord did use a fairly standard Joker line briefly towards the end. The only thing I've heard that's somewhat like this was actually not in a game, but in Futurama. According to the commentary on the DVD's in the episode "I Dated a Robot" which guest starred Lucy Liu they also got her to record a bunch of random, generic dialogue afterwords, knowing that they could use it again in future episodes if they wanted her head to make a cameo. The next season they used a couple in the episode "Love and Rocket" in a brief scene where she's inside Bender. Not sure if BioWare could do the same, it would probably depend on the contracts and what the voice-actors agreed to. I imagine they'd be free to use already-recorded dialogue here and there if need be... I have no idea. There's probably at least some unused stuff that may fit in some situations.

[Darth Drago]

Terror_K wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...
-Yea, it’s a shame BioWare hasn’t learned anything about planning ahead with voice acting for future downloads. Even some generic like lines (recorded when the actors are available during the recording of the main game) for each character would have been preferred to not hearing anything at all. It would admittedly take some preplanning and thinking to come up with a few lines to cover as many possible future replies but its not impossible. 

I wonder if they can't do this. I have no idea what the contracts look like, but I can easily imagine the lawyers getting all in a snit about work  that may or may not appear in some unknown product at an unknown price.

No idea. Overlord did use a fairly standard Joker line briefly towards the end. The only thing I've heard that's somewhat like this was actually not in a game, but in Futurama. According to the commentary on the DVD's in the episode "I Dated a Robot" which guest starred Lucy Liu they also got her to record a bunch of random, generic dialogue afterwords, knowing that they could use it again in future episodes if they wanted her head to make a cameo. The next season they used a couple in the episode "Love and Rocket" in a brief scene where she's inside Bender. Not sure if BioWare could do the same, it would probably depend on the contracts and what the voice-actors agreed to. I imagine they'd be free to use already-recorded dialogue here and there if need be... I have no idea. There's probably at least some unused stuff that may fit in some situations.

-I would think that they could have a contract set up to use their voices in future content. They still got paid for their time or per line or whatever the rate is for them. Would be interesting to know.

It just seems tacky not to use or hear voice actors for your squad or crew. It was annoying a few years back with bring Down the Sky when Joker’s voice was replaced by someone else (ships computer I think) telling you that your going out of the area as well as not hearing anything from your companions especially on how you resolve that mission.

Considering how much support ME2 is supposed to get in downloads and expansions this just seems like poor planning on BioWare’s part.

[Pocketgb]

iakus wrote...

Success or failure have little to do with it, imo.  It's personalizing your character.  Slight improvements means little room for customizing your Shepard...

Er, what?
"Slightness" or "significance" with upgrades aside - either in ME1 or ME2 - the sequel provides for a much broader range of customization. In ME1 you're only given two slots with a modest choice of upgrades, some that are simply not worth wasting the slot over (toxin resistance).

If the strength of the modification in ME2 have indeed been theory-crafted and tested to be more minute then one can consider it a tradeoff: Less strength in exchange for more customization.

Of course I haven't played the game thoroughly with a multitude of classes, but I have done playthroughs with both the Vanguard and the Soldier, but the equipment they benefit from differs between the two.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 20 juin 2010 - 09:11 .

[Terror_K]

Pocketgb wrote...

"Slightness" or "significance" with upgrades aside - either in ME1 or ME2 - the sequel provides for a much broader range of customization. In ME1 you're only given two slots with a modest choice of upgrades, some that are simply not worth wasting the slot over (toxin resistance).

If the strength of the modification in ME2 have indeed been theory-crafted and tested to be more minute then one can consider it a tradeoff: Less strength in exchange for more customization.

Of course I haven't played the game thoroughly with a multitude of classes, but I have done playthroughs with both the Vanguard and the Soldier, but the equipment they benefit from differs between the two.

I disagree. There's pretty much no customisation. In ME2 no matter what class you play or how you play, you'll end up just upgrading everything because its easy to do and there's no trade-off. The only exception is armour, but even then you'll probably go with what looks best on your Shepard rather than what most benefits them gameplay wise. And that doesn't even cover the fact that armour doesn't even act like armour and is really just different parts to give you different bonus abilities. As I've said before, its more like wearing a whole bunch of rings and amulets rather than functioning in a logical manner.

Remember, customisation is not the same as inevitability, especially when you can have your cake and eat it too.

Modifié par Terror_K, 20 juin 2010 - 09:19 .

[Pocketgb]

Terror_K wrote...

I disagree. There's pretty much no customisation. In ME2 no matter what class you play or how you play, you'll end up just upgrading everything because its easy to do and there's no trade-off. The only exception is armour...

Which is what we've been discussing about for a few posts now, so I'm unsure why you assumed I was talking about weapons as well.

Terror_K wrote...

...but even then you'll probably go with what looks best on your Shepard rather than what most benefits them gameplay wise.

This didn't happen in ME1?

Nearly half-way through the game I was looking for the strongest Onyx HA set I could find just because it was the iconic 'N7' gear (the red stripe down the arm was awesome and still is) and plowed through stuff with my defensive power on. How much of a difference did my gear and upgrades matter then?

And I'm probably just really bad at playing the Vanguard, but getting a good HP boost really helped out a lot on Insanity. For me it made the difference between being able to persist and kill that one final guy in the area of cover or attempting to retreat to the nearest point of safety (and I'd usually fail and die at this point).

This isn't to say that I disagree and feel that ME2's upgrades 'matter more than ME1's', rather that no improvement on signifiance was made due to a more-or-less remake of the systems.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 20 juin 2010 - 09:56 .

[smudboy]

Slidell505 wrote...
You don't know what fluff is do you? Fluff is stuff that adds time to the game, mining is a perfect example of fluff. Stuff that isn't fun and isn't necessary but adds time to the game.

That's your definition.  "Stuff that adds time to the game, isn't fun, and isn't necessary."

Considering the result of mining causes a variety of story based endings, which may involve saving peoples lives, including your own?  Hell, firing your gun is fluff.

There are a few definitions of fluff, some in RPGs (like the opposite of a crunch.)

Fluff as a noun means this:
3. something of no consequence: The book is pure fluff, but fun to read. 4. an error or blunder, esp. an actor's memory lapse in the delivery of lines.

For example, the armor is fluff, because it really doesn't do much, but people still like it.  Team communication is also fluff, even though people like it, it had almost nothing to do with the plot (corollary: the two loyalty conflicts.)

[spacehamsterZH]

I don't think the customization in ME1 worked particularly well either, though. Maybe it's just me, but I always have the exact same upgrades installed on everyone no matter what. I switch back and forth between tungsten ammo for Geth and whatever I just picked up at the highest level for organics and heat sinks and rail extensions for the guns, and the shield and medical upgrades for the armors. Everything else is useless to me. Who the hell uses melee attacks in ME1, for example? I don't think either game did this very well. If you compare ME1's weapon upgrade system to Demon's Souls, it's laughable.

Modifié par spacehamsterZH, 20 juin 2010 - 11:14 .

[smudboy]

Fantom X wrote...

 The biggest thing that I didn’t like about ME2 was the
weapons system, and making the bullet abilities powers, they should be items
not powers. The armor customization in ME2 was very small and weak, in ME1 it
was great. I loved customizing my armor and weapons.

 

I loved the upgrades in ME1 in ME2 the power ups
seemed useless for solders. I loved that the upgrades in ME1 made your shots do
5% more damage and other things.  

 

IF YOU DON’T MAKE ANY OF THE POWERS WEAPON RELATED
THAN YOU CAN USE THE SLOTS FOR MORE POWERS, LIKE MORE BIOTICS, TECK ABILYTS EXT.


 

I enjoyed playing ME1 much more than ME2.

 

Aside from the obvious game play mechanic of weapon mods, I felt the underground of the Citadel was made much more colorful by having a black market, or smuggling of illegal weapon mods.  There's mention of Illegal Weapons Tech with Pitne in ME2, but why couldn't we take that?  Oh right, retconned weapons.  If they can streamline guns, they could've streamlined the mods.  Mods made guns in ME1 so much more than simply a shotgun or a sniper rifle.  But yes, making ammo an ability for a soldier doesn't make a lick of sense.

[Orchomene]

InvaderErl wrote...

This really reminds me of the disbelief I felt when I saw people defending Hour of Victory as a good game.

And you remind me of all those people that said the Planescape:Torment was a broken unplayable game that was not even worse a single playthrough. Same for Fallout. But after years, a lot of people have adopted the game and those games are seen as references.
Whereas on the other hand, games like ME2 are quickly forgotten because it's becoming old with outdated graphics and bad story.
The review you've linked is as biased as it can be. I can easily do a review of ME2 showing how the AI is very dumb, how the gameplay is totally wrong and how it"s bugged and glitched to death. More than that, we can add a lot of plot holes and flatness of the story (like Smudboy videos).
People think that AP is bad because they need an assisted game. They say the mini games are broken because they can't solve those games (and there are ways to bypass the minigames via EMP grenades). They say the combat is broken because they are used to easy cover-shoot fights in recent shooters that allow them to win every combat without issue. ME2 is a game-for-everyone is the whole recent concept of cumfortable and assisted crowd of gamers that can only enjoy pretty images and not too complicate stories. Harry Potter for everyone, this is the best books ever read ! Yeah, each one his/her choice in taste. I just know that mediocre "for everyone" products are quickly forgotten whereas true gems leave traces in culture.

[Chuvvy]

smudboy wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...
You don't know what fluff is do you? Fluff is stuff that adds time to the game, mining is a perfect example of fluff. Stuff that isn't fun and isn't necessary but adds time to the game.

That's your definition.  "Stuff that adds time to the game, isn't fun, and isn't necessary."

Considering the result of mining causes a variety of story based endings, which may involve saving peoples lives, including your own?  Hell, firing your gun is fluff.

There are a few definitions of fluff, some in RPGs (like the opposite of a crunch.)

Fluff as a noun means this:
3. something of no consequence: The book is pure fluff, but fun to read. 4. an error or blunder, esp. an actor's memory lapse in the delivery of lines.

For example, the armor is fluff, because it really doesn't do much, but people still like it.  Team communication is also fluff, even though people like it, it had almost nothing to do with the plot (corollary: the two loyalty conflicts.)

I forgot that the Bioware defense force is worse than the sony defense force. They could have done away with it, or made it fast, it at least an hour. And the game can be completed without it. You can't complete a game without firing a gun.

Modifié par Slidell505, 20 juin 2010 - 02:27 .

[smudboy]

Slidell505 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...
You don't know what fluff is do you? Fluff is stuff that adds time to the game, mining is a perfect example of fluff. Stuff that isn't fun and isn't necessary but adds time to the game.

That's your definition.  "Stuff that adds time to the game, isn't fun, and isn't necessary."

Considering the result of mining causes a variety of story based endings, which may involve saving peoples lives, including your own?  Hell, firing your gun is fluff.

There are a few definitions of fluff, some in RPGs (like the opposite of a crunch.)

Fluff as a noun means this:
3. something of no consequence: The book is pure fluff, but fun to read. 4. an error or blunder, esp. an actor's memory lapse in the delivery of lines.

For example, the armor is fluff, because it really doesn't do much, but people still like it.  Team communication is also fluff, even though people like it, it had almost nothing to do with the plot (corollary: the two loyalty conflicts.)

I forgot that the Bioware defense force is worse than the sony defense force. They could have done away with it, or made it fast, it at least an hour. And the game can be completed without it. You can't complete a game without firing a gun.

I'm the Plot Defense Force.  PDF represent.

Really?  I don't know.  But I'm on the fence about whether an Adept or Engineer could.

[bjdbwea]

Orchomene wrote...

People think that AP is bad because they need an assisted game. They say the mini games are broken because they can't solve those games (and there are ways to bypass the minigames via EMP grenades). They say the combat is broken because they are used to easy cover-shoot fights in recent shooters that allow them to win every combat without issue.

The more I see people who praise ME 2 bash AP, and people who are critical about ME 2 praise AP, the more I think I should AP give a choice despite the things I already know would disappoint me.

[tonnactus]

InvaderErl wrote...

The modular armor was extremely cool and much more preferable to just swapping in whole entire suits. I don't know why Terror would have a problem with that.

Someone could call that nitpicking,but where is no armor in Mass Effect 2. Armor means percentage based damage reduction to health like in the first game. Now,shepardt and his team only have shields.(only called barrier and armor in other cases). And the pieces are basicly just some minor upgrades/enchantements.