Ce sujet est fermé
Darth Drago wrote...
-First off, in ME1 you didn’t randomly pick up anyone to join you. Kaidan and Ashley were with you on Eden Prime. Garrus was investigating Saren before you got to the Citadel, Wrex was hired to kill Fist one of Saren’s contacts and later has a personal issue with the Krogan Saren is cloning. Tali finds the evidence you need and is a Geth expert. Liara is related to Benezia (Saren’s second in command) and also can decipher the beacon info. Each one has a personal interest or role in the story of ME1.Felfenix wrote...
2) Recruitment missions, loyalty missions, and on-ship dialog (each character had as much as an ME1 character, for a net gain). There was a lot more character detail and even more character dialog. ME1 had you randomly pick up the first 6 people you meet, and none of them have any real role in the story. Seriously, go back and play ME1 and ME2. You're dellusional if you think ME1 had character interaction or content.
The only ones that have any role in the story in ME2 is Jacob, Miranda Talli and Garrus. They are the only ones who are with you from the start (from either game) and know the real threat and whats at risk. Everyone else is just a merc, just hired for whatever specialty that they can bring or are supposed to bring to the mission. They have their personal reasons for joining you but its not to stop the Collectors and the Reapers. In actuality the only ones you need to finish the mission is Mordin and a powerful biotic (Jack, Samara or Morinth) and since Tali is your tech expert you really don’t need another.
Your whole arguement is just biased spin though. I could use your same arguement for the reverse. Wrex is just some merc who tags along too long. Ashley and Kaiden are just soldiers who happened to be there. Tali has no reason to join your squad any more than the hanar street preacher, nor does anyone else on your squad, really. Liara is the only who really makes a difference in the plot after recruiting her. Wrex, Kaiden, and Ashley could easily have not existed and it would have made no difference. None of your squadmates are especially skilled combatants on Shepard's level, either. Liara is just some scientist, with as much biotic power as any other asari. Ash is just a soldier, and as bland in skill/expertise as it gets. Kaiden is a biotic... with headaches, and he doesn't even specialize in biotics. Tali is... a less than normally experienced quarian teen. Wrex is an epic badass though, but he was a merc, which apparently you hate.
The people you recruit in ME2 are the best in the galaxy at what they do, except Jacob, he's just kind of a random dude in the right place at the right time. You could have just as easily ended up with the engineer doctor instead of him or just not even encountered him. He's good, like ME1 squadmate good, but nothing special. Mordin has more of a role in ME2's story than any squad mate in any game had in any story. Most of the characters in ME2 play as much role in the "main story" as you give them (I'm talking about the special roles: biotic/leader/etc). I could go over why each individual squadmate is someone worth recruiting (Jack being best human biotic, Thane being best assassin, etc.) but you either payed attention, or shut your eyes going NONONO. The loyalty missions, as well as the characters, had big impacts on themselves, the galaxy, and the mission. Legion's loyalty mission, for example.
Darth Drago wrote...
Not one of your ME2 squad is even needed to bypass security or open locks since you as Shepard now is an expert at both.
Granted you do get more interaction and dialog with your squad mates in ME2, one of the things they did right in ME2. However they could have done so much more by adding actual interaction between them especially in loyalty missions and adding a few more lines after you beat the game.
The loyalty missions regrettably are the best part of the game. They brought out so much information about each of your squad mates (except Morinth) that the rest of the game seems like an afterthought.
The loyalty missions ARE the game... well, and the suicide mission. I'd have loved if there were more opportunities for the characters to use their abilities not for mundane things like hacking a box, but for entegral rolls in a mission that utilize their abilities, like in the suicide mission. It was very cool having a use for a biotic, a leader, and tech. I just wish that kind of thing was used FAR more in the suicide mission, and in other missions as well.
Darth Drago wrote...
-Let me ask you, how did ME2 have any plot advancement based on your decisions? I cant think of a single one. Upgrading your ship or doing a loyalty mission has nothing to do with advancing the plot. The loyalty missions are nothing but a poorly implemented game mechanic to partially determine your squad mates fates in the final battle.Felfenix wrote...
1 & 3) How did ME1 have any plot advancement based on your decisions? Youcould do anything and things would turn out the same. You couldn't even affect the characters, other than choosing to kill one of them. Your decisions in ME2 could get everyone killed in more ways than one. You can fail loyalty missions. Even if everyone is loyal, bad choices in the final mission can get some killed. Upgrading the normandy made a huge difference in the story. ME2 has TONS of possibilities. ME1... had the illusion of it, but if you played it more than once, it's clear how linear the game was, and how decisions were pointless other than giving you paragon/renegade points. Ash/Kaiden was the only decision in the whole game, and it had no long term effect. Failing a loyalty mission, or generally just being an ass, could really **** things up in the long term in ME2.
Choosing either Ashley or Kaidan or even how you deal with Wrex on Virmire had more long term effect in ME1 than any of the possible deaths of your squad in ME2 simply because you still have the final battle to do.
The fates of your squad in ME2 has nothing to do with the plot of the game. They are the result of how you play the game and your choices for the key positions in the final battle. Do you want to do a loyalty mission or not? Do you select the obvious persons for the tech and biotic roles in the final missions or just choose anyone? Lets see Jack over Jacob? Tali over Grunt? Its not rocket science for those positions. The leadership one is more tricky but again isn’t tough to figure out based on the needs of the role.
Just how many loyalty missions can you actually fail anyways? I count only 2, Zaeed and Tali. You cant count Samara since Morinth becomes loyal if you choose her. Your just replacing one for the other in that case. No matter your choice for any of the loyalty missions either paragon or renegade nothing changes with them.
More changes than any of your choices in ME1. I fail to see how ME2 was some massive step backwards. What exactly is this complexity and difficulty of choice and decisions you claim to have been lost in ME2 that existed in ME1? Choosing Ashley or Kaiden had no "major effects" other than having Ashley or Kaiden. Who you choose makes no difference other than having that character around. As for the recruitment and loyalty missions not advancing the plot, the story of the game was about the characters (whereas your squadmates in ME1 were essentially irrelevant to the story) and forming a squad for the final mission, making decisions that affected them greatly enough to change their personalities or cause them to falter in battle. I guess you need an obvious plot with lots of explosions and key jingling, along with the same overdone formula of "Visit 4 places, then kill villain." As for how you dealt with Wrex having an effect? Howso? You choose to kill him, or not, and his personality, opinions... nothing at all changes other than him dying or not, and he has no role in the plot even if he survives, other than just being along for the ride.
Darth Drago wrote...
-Lets see.. One suit of armor for Shepard and none for any squad mates in ME2 versus all of the ones in ME1. A few armor upgrade pieces in ME2 versus several armor mods in ME. A few unique weapons that your entire squad uses in ME2 versus a large selection of not so unique looking weapons in ME1. No weapon mods for ME2 weapons and a lot of them for weapons in ME1.Felfenix wrote...
4) There was far more actual customization in ME2. Viper v Widow, for example, instead of just LOL+1 RIFLE. You could modify your appearance FAR more, instead of just having the same spandex suit in black, pink, yellow, or brown. The equipment pieces did interesting nonlinear things like choosing between ammo, shields, health, storm speed, and headshot damage, instead of just +1 to defense with each upgrade like ME1. ME2 was the game with unique classes, and abilities that mattered, instead of the generic spamfest of ME1. You really think ME1 Vanguard was more of a unique class than ME2's? There was no "customization" or uniqueness in ME1. Just the illusion of it, as if upgrading but being essentially the same as you were is customization. It's not. The lab and limited credits had you actually making decisions on what upgrades you wanted, and the upgrades were far better than anything in ME1.
Except there was only one suit of armor for everyone in ME1, it just came in different colors that you couldn't select at will. If you think the only unique thing about the weapons in ME2 is their appearance, you're simply wrong. Test all the assault rifles, and see for yourself. You're insane if you think ME2 had an inferior customization for at the very least Shepard? One suit of armor? There are a bunch of suits, such as the DLCs, along with a ton of customizable pieces that have customizable effects (instead of just being generic linear upgrades) and unique appearances. You could dye the armor, mix and match looks, stats, etc. You didn't have nearly as much choice or even options in ME1. Don't be blind.
Darth Drago wrote...
By my count ME1 has ME2 beat by far with the variety of items for customization. Granted in ME2 you do get unique weapons that are far better than those in ME1 however there are way to few of them.
The armor upgrades you get for your armor in ME2 really is nothing more than what you got from your mods or by leveling your talents in ME1 so your not getting more but actually less due to streamlining of the game. If there was a lot more upgrades then it would be different but that’s not the case.
The only true customization with regards to your ME2 armor is the color choice and the fact that the upgrades do change the appearance of the armor. The 2 pattern choices are not even worth mentioning.
As for class uniqueness, sorry but again ME1 is far better with all of the talents you have to choose from when you level up. Even after the Rogue VI mission you are given a choice of 2 specializations for your class. What did ME2 bring? Oh yea, at a certain point you can choose a new weapon to now be trained in or depending on your class a new weapon. Big whoop. Doing that just makes any non soldier class into a more soldier one. That’s not more customization its less.-Unfortunately the only thing to do with all the planets in ME2 is to waste time scanning them for obscene amounts of minerals to make the smallest of upgrades. With a larger galaxy with more star systems to explore in ME2 there should have been a lot more of those N7 side quests. In ME1 we got a mission that brought you to all but one of the star systems in the game.Felfenix wrote...
6) Planet scanning actually gave planets a purpose and you could actually find things (side missions, rare minerals) out there via exploring. ME1 just had a bunch of planets with the same bland and ridiculously mountainy terrain, a couple enemies at the planet's objective, and a few minerals scattered about that served no purpose. ME1 was a lazily made game with lazy crappy sidequests/exploration/gear that served no purpose.
At least the UNC planets in ME1 were more believable than all the perfectly breathable planets we got in ME2.
I could say the same about ME2 being lazily made with a lot less side quests, no exploration, and very limited amount of gear.
-The fact is that there are a lot of things that ME1 had that should have been fixed or enhanced to bring into ME2 but hey either got butchered or completely removed. That said there are some things that ME2 did do right with regards to weapons and equipment but they fell flat with a very limited amount of them to select from.
I guess it's a quality vs quantity thing. I'd much rather have a handful of careful made and unique missions, than two dozen missions that are exactly the same, on worlds that look exactly the same, with not even much of a mission.
ME2 should definitely have had more N7 missions. At least one in each system. Having so many systems with nothing really in them except minerals and planet info was underwhelming. I prefer when gameplay elements tie together, like scanning a planet leading to an actual mission.
As far as the guns in ME2, there were more than in ME1. Most of the weapons in ME2 work very differently and are viable, whereas there were only 4 guns in ME1. I liked that some of the weapon mods were essentially changed into powers, and I'd like to see the mod/power system expanded in ME3.
You really honestly think ME2 would have been a better game
if the only pistol was the M5, and every enemy just dropped Lv1 M5 Lv2
M5 Lv3 M5 with each level doing NOTHING AT ALL other than increasing the damage to your level's equivalent? That wasn't customization, options, or variety at all. It was pointless maintenance. There were only 4 guns in ME1.
I like that ME2 had far more character development. Once you recruit Tali... she just... hangs out on the ship, and tells you about Quarians. She doesn't even really have her own quest. What party members you bring along on main story quests in either game doesn't make much, if any, difference. They all basically say the same things, with a different voice, with few exceptions in both games.
ME2 kept *almost* everything good from ME1, it just streamlined and improved upon those elements, and cut out the waste and unfun elements. ME2 also added a lot of good things of it's own. I hope ME3 cuts out the bad, improves on the good, makes the game smoother, and adds newer greater things too. I'm sorry you don't, but at least you have ME1 if you think it's the pinnacle of perfection.
I miss the elevators, and maybe group dialog more Dragone Age Origins style could/should be implemented in ME3. I didn't like the "click location" thing. I'd also love if there was more squadmate interaction that didn't revolve around Shepard. ME2 started on the idea a bit with the squad fights, but didn't take it anywhere near far enough. I wouldn't like more angsty arguements, but squadmates maybe forming relationships with each other instead of just being there for Shep, or other interactions/scenes/dialog would be great. The arguements in ME2 were a great idea though, but would have been better if it was more like an Ashley/Kaiden choice instead of "Hahaha! Paragons/Renegades don't NEED to make real choices!" like with Wrex.
You don't seem to be willing to open your mind and even consider any possibility other than ME1 being perfection and ME2 being some inferior blight in every way. Is this a discussion on how to improve the series, or just a blind one-sided hate thread, where anything you say is wrong with ME2 is law and no one is allowed to say, think, or feel different?
Interestingly, if you look at your own polls in your own "I hate ME2!!!" topic, most people weren't "disappointed" with ME2 and actually prefer it over 1. It's not the paragon of perfection, end all be all game, but it's definitely been a step in the right direction. Of couse, there are some terrible experiments in ME2 (planet scanning was not fun at all, to me and most people) and things in ME1 most would like to return in some way, but don't try to act like ME2 was a failure or a step in the wrong direction. It wasn't perfect, no game is, but it was a step in the right direction.
Modifié par Felfenix, 27 juin 2010 - 06:34 .
Retour en haut
The inventory from ME2 is clean, smooth and works great, really hope they keep it. c) RPG's are about story,depth and individuality,things in wich both ME1 and ME2 succeed at.
).
