10273 réponses à ce sujet

[tonnactus]

lazuli wrote...


The Illusive Man doesn't know much about the Collectors, so he has Shepard build a diverse team. 

But the team isnt diverse.Tali and legion are nearly the same when it comes to comparing talents .
5 biotics. No one is special .More then one could do the same task. 3 leaders,free tech,two could do the biotic bubble.Even more if the player didnt care about some casualties. What subject zero could better as samara?

This sounds like someone I'd want on my team if I were preparing to face a foe as dangerous as the Collectors.

First, it would be necessary to now how strong collectors are. How many ships,how many bases, locations after someone get through the relay.This doesnt happen.And the motivation of most companions to follow shepardt are shallow at best. Big luck that the best assasin in the galaxy feels sad for what he done,right? But at least he is the only one who know who shepardt is. And okeer,but didnt bcame a squadmate. The other just follow a stranger.

[bjdbwea]

Lumikki wrote...

Yes, I do know what game I play. The 10min was example as how long it takes to hit special spots while normally playing the game, they allways starts dialogs if there is need for one. if you have delayed talk by ignoring it, then there is allways need. You did not notice how some dialogs allways happen is same spots? You can't even allways go around that spot, if you remember where it was.

Then don't take the companions with you of whom you don't want to hear their stories? Easy enough. Bit off-topic though. "Fortunately", you don't have this problem in ME 2 - the companions don't have anything to say in the first place.

[Lumikki]

bjdbwea wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Yes, I do know what game I play. The 10min was example as how long it takes to hit special spots while normally playing the game, they allways starts dialogs if there is need for one. if you have delayed talk by ignoring it, then there is allways need. You did not notice how some dialogs allways happen is same spots? You can't even allways go around that spot, if you remember where it was.

Then don't take the companions with you of whom you don't want to hear their stories? Easy enough. Bit off-topic though. "Fortunately", you don't have this problem in ME 2 - the companions don't have anything to say in the first place.

Yes, I don't have that problem in ME2 or ME1. How ever, my point was that some people likes alot of team member talks, while some may not like it. I think I'm more in the middle, I like them to talk, but not too long. There are people who got bored with 1 min elevator ride, while I did fine it great. In Kotor how ever, some talks are too long to my taste. I don't really like to listen long time while others whine about they life or something. In ME2 maybe there is too little active team member talks. In general both ME1 and ME2 is too much about combat and too little about the main story. Under 20% of games missions to be main story related, is too little.

[bjdbwea]

Talking is part of an RPG though. People who don't like it, should just play different games. Have you ever seen an RPG fan go to a shooter forum and demand the game to have less weapons and more conversations?

[Darth Drago]

Lumikki wrote...

Yes, I don't have that problem in ME2 or ME1. How ever, my point was that some people likes alot of team member talks, while some may not like it. I think I'm more in the middle, I like them to talk, but not too long. There are people who got bored with 1 min elevator ride, while I did fine it great. In Kotor how ever, some talks are too long to my taste. I don't really like to listen long time while others whine about they life or something. In ME2 maybe there is too little active team member talks. In general both ME1 and ME2 is too much about combat and too little about the main story. Under 20% of games missions to be main story related, is too little.

-Dragon Age does this very well with all the random banter (that starts at certain spots) that your companions have. You can stop to listen to them or just keep walking and ignore it if you’ve head it already. It was also pretty balanced in length to be only a few minutes long.

Yea, and we know what happened to those elevator rides now don’t we. I personally loved them except when the news updates got to repetitive. On the flipside, Jack’s loyalty mission gets old for me with her constantly rambling on and on about stuff and feelings she’s not even sure about.

Its probably difficult to really come up with that perfect balance of spoken dialog to please everyone. I can listen to dialog for a long time if its interesting enough for me but if its not then it might as well be an Elcor talking to me.

[Lumikki]

bjdbwea wrote...

Have you ever seen an RPG fan go to a shooter forum and demand the game to have less weapons and more conversations?

Yes, You right now here in Mass Effect forum.


Mass Effects aren't pure RPG or even pure shooters, they are hybrids with alot of shooter with cinematic dialogs and little bit RPG. So, having little bit talk is fine, because Mass Effects are ONLY little bit RPG.  Problem is that you still think Mass Effects are or should be RPG. I mean Mass Effect games are little bit RPG, not as much you may think or want. That has been you problem here, you want it to be more RPG, but that's not really what Mass Effects are.

Kotor what I play now is in my opinion alot of RPG. But both Mass Effects has very small RPG side in them. I think they are more like cinematic action games. Strong shooter side, too strong for my taste. RPG side is just fine here, but customation and variety needs to be increased. Also Mass Effect needs stronger main story line and less about side missions.

[Iakus]

Lumikki wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Have you ever seen an RPG fan go to a shooter forum and demand the game to have less weapons and more conversations?

Yes, You right now here in Mass Effect forum.


Mass Effects aren't pure RPG or even pure shooters, they are hybrids with alot of shooter with cinematic dialogs and little bit RPG. So, having little bit talk is fine, because Mass Effects are ONLY little bit RPG.  Problem is that you still think Mass Effects are or should be RPG. I mean Mass Effect games are little bit RPG, not as much you may think or want. That has been you problem here, you want it to be more RPG, but that's not really what Mass Effects are..

The question is, why couldn't the Mass Effect games be more of an RPG than it is now? It's a Bioware game.  The first game was marketed as an rpg, why should ME 2 be less of one?  This isn't a question of "less weapons, more conversations" or "more weapons, less conversations" It's "more weapons and more conversations"  The storyline for this game (build a team and earn their loyalty) practically screams "rpg"  Yet the squadmates are tightly compartmentalized so their impact is minimal until you need them, more like inventory than characters for all but their loyalty mission.

This is a hybrid game, but in this case, there was little reason to leave this particular rpg quality out.

[Terror_K]

iakus wrote...

The question is, why couldn't the Mass Effect games be more of an RPG than it is now? It's a Bioware game.  The first game was marketed as an rpg, why should ME 2 be less of one?  This isn't a question of "less weapons, more conversations" or "more weapons, less conversations" It's "more weapons and more conversations"  The storyline for this game (build a team and earn their loyalty) practically screams "rpg"  Yet the squadmates are tightly compartmentalized so their impact is minimal until you need them, more like inventory than characters for all but their loyalty mission.

This is a hybrid game, but in this case, there was little reason to leave this particular rpg quality out.

And that's pretty much my main beef with the game overall: that the other RPG elements didn't need to be cut back and/or oversimplified just to improve the TPS combat. A lot of people actually said after the first game that they thought it needed more dialogue and less combat, but instead we get more combat and whole not necessarily less dialogue overall a lesser degree and focus of it. This is especially evident when companions barely say a thing outside of Normandy visits and loyalty missions, and when you have things like Legion joining you and Tali not even having a damn thing to say about it beyond a slight protest if you took her with you to get him. "Oh hey, Tali! By the way, I reactivated that geth we brought aboard. Just FYI." "I have to monitor these engines, maybe we'll talk later."

[Massadonious1]

nm

Modifié par Massadonious1, 30 juin 2010 - 07:45 .

[Thajocoth]

tonnactus wrote...

Thajocoth wrote...


You gain new abilities at least every 4th level now, rather than every 12th or so.  How many dots across was that?  That's what I was talking about.  Adding to the effect of something you already have doesn't feel all that rewarding. 

Thats excatly what you gain at level 4. Nothing else except a little more duration or range. Thats it. It doesnt change the gameplay like it did when you could fight geth armatures on foot when you could lift one at advanced lift or hack one with master ai-hacking. This is a real gameplay change. Not an artificial one like you get from the Mass Effect Too talent "evolutions".

There was also the special class the player got after the luna mission. Bastion for example offers a stasis and barrier specialisation that allows to damage enemies in stasis and let the barrier regenrate even during firefights.

I liked the specialization thing, where you got to choose between two bonuses in ME1.  I didn't like having more slots than I could possibly fill by max level in the level-up stuff, nor did I like that you get 11 dead points for every row, with the first game.  A better way to handle it, in my opinion, would be to remove all the "Upgrade what you already have" options, and let you pick from all possible abilities of all three trees.  Some abilities might require others first...  When you hit max level, you have just enough points for everything.  That way, you get something new each level.  That'd be better than either levelling system.

[CroGamer002]

Did you guys decided is Mass Effect 2 RPG or not?

[Lumikki]

Mesina2 wrote...

Did you guys decided is Mass Effect 2 RPG or not?

Mass Effects aren't pure RPG, but they do have little bit RPG side too. Anyone who has played Mass Effect can them self see what they are. Some people like above, are asking why can't Mass Effect be more RPG than they are, because Bioware is good doing RPG's. 

I think answer is that Bioware is trying to do little different style and please little bit different kind of players too. I mean why not do it, if they are good at it too. There is no single reason why some company has to do only sertain type of games, if they are able to do good different kinds games too to please other players.

We player should choose what games we like to play and not trying to change every game to be what we self want. If player can't enjoy some game design, then maybe the game aren't design for him/her. There is different between complain because something is badly design and game isn't design to taste of some player.

[fchopin]

Mesina2 wrote...

Did you guys decided is Mass Effect 2 RPG or not?

Don’t insult RPG’s by comparing ME2 as an RPG.

[againjenson]

*off topic post edited out*

Modifié par javierabegazo, 30 juin 2010 - 04:25 .

[javierabegazo]

fchopin wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Did you guys decided is Mass Effect 2 RPG or not?

Don’t insult RPG’s by comparing ME2 as an RPG.

Why must there be such a tight definition of what an RPG is? So you can have something to belong to?
Would you say that ME2 is the first game BioWare has made that is not an RPG or are there others not worthy of the title of "RPG"

Do you discount any of the Final Fantasies, or Chrono games as RPG's as well?  What about Xenogears or Saga Frontier?

Modifié par javierabegazo, 30 juin 2010 - 04:33 .

[Dudeman315]

irrelevant after previous post was changed.

Modifié par Dudeman315, 30 juin 2010 - 04:36 .

[tonnactus]

iakus wrote...


The question is, why couldn't the Mass Effect games be more of an RPG than it is now? It's a Bioware game.  The first game was marketed as an rpg, why should ME 2 be less of one?  This isn't a question of "less weapons, more conversations" or "more weapons, less conversations" It's "more weapons and more conversations" 

And more armor,for teammates too,more talents,for teammates too.

The storyline for this game (build a team and earn their loyalty) practically screams "rpg"  Yet the squadmates are tightly compartmentalized so their impact is minimal until you need them, more like inventory than characters for all but their loyalty mission.

This game even fails at as character driven game. Its funny that only wrexs mission in the first game could be called a real loyality mission in the sense of the world.

[bjdbwea]

javierabegazo wrote...

Would you say that ME2 is the first game BioWare has made that is not an RPG or are there others not worthy of the title of "RPG"?

Yes to the first part, and no to the second part of your question.

Not that the definition matters much. All previous BioWare games had great stories and writing, that's the most important features in my opinion, and there BioWare excelled the most at. I don't care if they replaced the RPG combat mechanics with shooter combat mechanics, but I do care that the story and the writing are so much worse than in every previous BioWare game.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 30 juin 2010 - 05:47 .

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...
The question is, why couldn't the Mass Effect games be more of an RPG than it is now?

That is not exactly the question. There's no reason why the games couldn't be so. The question you're actually asking is "why aren't they?".

Actually, there seem to be two different questions floating around here right now. The second question has to do with why the storyline is weak. I don't buy the premise of that one, but obviously some of you do.

Modifié par AlanC9, 30 juin 2010 - 04:52 .

[CroGamer002]

Here's a shocker, GTA 4 IS RPG!!!!!!!!

BEAT THIS CLAIM AND COMPARE GTA 4 TO ME2!!!!!!

[fchopin]

javierabegazo wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Did you guys decided is Mass Effect 2 RPG or not?

Don’t insult RPG’s by comparing ME2 as an RPG.

Why must there be such a tight definition of what an RPG is? So you can have something to belong to?
Would you say that ME2 is the first game BioWare has made that is not an RPG or are there others not worthy of the title of "RPG"

Do you discount any of the Final Fantasies, or Chrono games as RPG's as well?  What about Xenogears or Saga Frontier?

I know what an RPG is and have not said that JRPG's are not RPG's so don't understand why you mention them.
 
I was talking about ME2, and in my opinion it should not be classified as an RPG.
 
Also weather a game is good or bad has nothing to do with the classification.
 
I have no problem on what kind of games Bioware makes, they can make any kind of game they like as long as they put it in the correct category.

[Iakus]

bjdbwea wrote...


Not that the definition matters much. All previous BioWare games had great stories and writing, that's the most important features in my opinion, and there BioWare excelled the most at. I don't care if they replaced the RPG combat mechanics with shooter combat mechanics, but I do care that the story and the writing are so much worse than in every previous BioWare game.

This.  A lot.

Although I am probably more generous than some in that I do consider ME 2 to be an rpg.  Or rather, it has rpg-like qualities to it.  I suppose it's an rpg the same way a Twinkie is food.  It is edible.  You won't die of it (in the short term anyway)  But not what you'd call a satisfying meal by any definition.

I probably shouldn't be writing this during lunch... 

[CroGamer002]

Can somebody define me what's RPG?

Because GTA San Andreas and GTA 4 are consider to be RPG!!!!!!

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...
The question is, why couldn't the Mass Effect games be more of an RPG than it is now?

That is not exactly the question. There's no reason why the games couldn't be so. The question you're actually asking is "why aren't they?".

Actually, there seem to be two different questions floating around here right now. The second question has to do with why the storyline is weak. I don't buy the premise of that one, but obviously some of you do.

Either way, it boils down to "Why is it so hard for shooter and rpg mechanics to exist side-by side even where they don't overlap?"

I'm one who buys that the storyline is weak.  It is a poor sequel to ME 1.  Cut out mention of the Reapers and make Jacob/Miranda the main characters, and you have a complete standalone story set in the ME universe.  (actually, that could have been a good lead-in to an alternate ME2, with Miranda &Co meeting up with Shepard with info on the Omega 4 relay and what's beyond... )
 
Plus the character development , supposedly the main point of the story, felt very mechanical and forced.  Some good ideas that were terribly implemented.

[Iakus]

Mesina2 wrote...

Can somebody define me what's RPG?
Because GTA San Andreas and GTA 4 are consider to be RPG!!!!!!

I can't comment on the GTA series.  I have never played them.  As to what is an rpg, I'm sure there are a lot of definitions based on personal taste.  Some will place more stock in one aspect than another.  There are also different degrees of how "strong" or "weak" an rpg is.

I posted a few pages back what I think are important aspects to an rpg.  here it is again, in order of preference (for me):

1) Strong, interactive story,

2) Well-developed characters (npcs and party members) with well-written dialogue

3) Plot advancement and consequences  based on decisions I make.

4) Customizable character (skills, equipment, specialties, class abilities)

5) Side quests as well as a main story

6) Explorable enviroment, preferably with  interactive elements as well


If the Grand Theft Auto gamesare strong, or ast least moderate, in these six categories, then maybe they are rpgs.  Though somehow I doubt they'd be to my taste