10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Onyx Jaguar]

Because my money doesn't go to the reviewers it goes to EA

[Terror_K]

LilKis1 wrote...

How could anyone be dissappointed in this game when it got rave reviews everywhere!

Because aside from the fact that official reviewers hand out 9's and 10's far too readily these days and often overhype and overrate games that the gaming public don't always receive quite as well, they're evaluating Mass Effect 2 as a game overall, and not evaluating it as a sequel. Mass Effect 2 succeeds as a game, but fails as a sequel, and as an RPG.

[Cootie]

LilKis1 wrote...

How could anyone be dissappointed in this game when it got rave reviews everywhere!

Opinions. They differ.
I think Mass Effect 2 is a big step back from Mass Effect 1, and it only got good reviews because it's riding on the fame-wave of the first game. Imagine if the roles were reversed.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I disagree, ME 1 is such a technical mess it really shouldn't have been regarded as highly. ME 2 on the other hand is extremely polished.

[Iakus]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I disagree, ME 1 is such a technical mess it really shouldn't have been regarded as highly. ME 2 on the other hand is extremely polished.

ME 2 was from a technical perspective more polished.  But it still fails as a sequel and has a badly-done story (imo)  A game can be well-done technically and still be a bad game.

[Lusitanum]

[quote]iakus wrote...

Some cut scenes I don't mind sitting through, others I'd like to skip ahead, so yeah, I'm with you on that.
Sounds like you had the same reaction to Garrus dying that I had to the whole Horizon reunion .  At least yours could be undone.  I [/quote]

BTW, what did the Horizon reunion did to you that traumatized you so much:lol:? I don't recall you ever mentioning the specifics.

[quote]iakus wrote...

But like I said, a suicide mission means strong potential for death. If you lose someone, you can, like you did restart (sitting though the cutscenes) or play it as it lies.  This is why I'm a big supporter of saving frequently[/quote]

The things is that you couldn't save before making your choices on the vents and the first fire team, so you had to go through the whole Omega-4 relay scene, past the previously mentioned UNSKIPPABLE CUTSCENES (wow, this is therapeutic ), make your choices and only then could you save. Which, you know, kind of annoyed me .

[quote]iakus wrote...

I can't speak for the reasons why others make their choice, but I make my choices in rpgs because I want the story to progress in a cetain way. Not because of "cold equations" or achievements.  I find "achievement runs" make for boring playthroughs.  I don't wanna count how many times i use overload or rush from the Citadel to drag Liara all over creation.  If I do that it's because I want to see her reactions on particular missions [/quote]

Hey, I'm just pointing out some of the reactions and reasonings and pointing out that, if we actually cared more for the characters, we wouldn't think so much in videogame terms when we make some choices, nothing else . I mean, I guess we all tend to view places and people as "real" when we care for them and just as things in a videogame when we don't give two craps about them.

Lord knows I loved every single companion in both Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2, but I can't for the life of me remember the name of a single NPC in Borderlands, because I simply never gave a toss about any of them. Unless you consider "wishing they'd die a gruesome, fiery death just so they would stop their pathetic attemps at humor" as caring for what happens to them.

But I digress (again)...

[quote]iakus wrote...

Going in knowing that made for an intense experience. You know that mistakes can get people killed (well, digital characters anyway) Lack of focus gets people killed, lack of expertise gets people killed.  Prepare as best you can, plan carefully, and hope for the best.   I really wish it had been longer.   A truly intense, epic suicide mission lasting the last quarter or third of the game might have redeemed ME 2 in my eyes.  Twelve characters, twelve challenges I say![/quote]

I really don't think a third and much less a quarter of the game would be a good idea, especially since the game itself can last for about 50 hours. I can agree with you that it could certainly have been longer (if it didn't keep me in the dark about wheter or not some decision I made was totally wrong ), but a quarter of the game is just way too long for any one mission.

[quote]iakus wrote...

Two seperate loyalty missions based on your actions in ME 1?  Nah, smacks to much of consequences carrying over from ME 1.  I mean, where's the email potential in that [/quote]

I think there are enough newcomers pissed at the fact that they can't access some of their content because they don't have a ME1 save game, I don't think we don't need to enrage the fans that did play the first game but just don't happen to have two different save files...

[quote]iakus wrote...

From ME 1 paragon ending:
"I realized it wasn't what he did to those people.  It was part of it,  But I think most of it was because he got away from me.  He escaped under my watch, and I didn't like that.  I let it become personal"

From ME 2 (I don't think there's any spoilers here)
"Who's going to bring Sidonis to justice if I don't?  Nobody else knows what he's done.  Nobody else cares....Talk all you want, it won't make any difference.  I don't care what his reasons were.  He screwed us...he deserves to die.

Maybe not identical, but Garrus really seems to think he's judge, jury, and executioner.[/quote]

Hey, I said they were similar but not identical, didn't I ?

[quote]iakus wrote...

Not that I have a problem with the Collector Attack scene, cause I don't.  But it could easily have been told after Shepard returns as a flashback as Joker is explaining what happened:)[/quote]

Maybe that could work, but it could also feel kind of out of place. I don't know, I guess I just can't imagine Joker going into narrator mode, with a "it all began after you left" as the image blurs away in a wavy pattern and a cheesy "dream" sound effect rolls in.

[quote]iakus wrote...

I disagree here.  All through the game we're told we need to build a team and keep them focused. "The team" is supposed to be the whole thrust of the game.  But what the game is seriously lacking in is teamwork.  A few scenes of that, with or without Shepard present, would definitely have helped.  Hold the Line would have been a perfect moment, but other scenes could have been added to the Suicide Mission as well.[/quote]

That could be a pretty good idea for ME3: more moments where you see all your squadmates as an actual team and not just isolated members. It would be quite a nice departure from the mold that Bioware never broke until now.

I mean, I don't ever recall a Bioware game where your team was more than the sum of its parts. Maybe we could see something new in ME3 with all this focus on the squad...

[quote]iakus wrote...

So it's not "OMG! Stuff happened!" so much as "OMG!  They're coming together as a squad!"[/quote]

[quote]iakus wrote...

You're really bitter about losing Garrus, aren't ya?  [/quote]

YES!!

Especially since he died for no adequate reason! I mean, if he'd died in the vents due to a mistake in my judgment, I could accept that I just made a bad decision. But he died because he couldn't hack the door as well as other characters could, so it didn't automatically shut and he had to place himself in harms way.

But, small detail here, ALL THE OTHER TECH SPECIALISTS ARE STANDING - RIGHT - THERE!! If he wasn't the most competent of the bunch, then why didn't someone else, like Tali or Legion, replace him when they got there? That way we would have traded a weak hacker and a weak fighter for a good hacker and a good fighter after they swaped places!

Not to mention that Garrus always showed a lot of prowess in using his tech knowledge so... yeah, it really pissed me off.

[quote]iakus wrote...

I think it's a general weakness in the game.  A team is supposed to come together from all these recruitment and loyalty missions.  But there's little evidence of it.  Hold the Line is just one big (perhaps the biggest) example of that lack of evidence.  I've mentioned others before, such as lack of dialogue in loyalty missions.  My problem is if we're supposed to build a team we need to see a team come together.  Not be told that we've done enough recruitment/loyalty missions that the cookbook tells us "remove from oven and begin Suicide Mission"[/quote]

I also could have lived without the whole "attack on the Normandy" thing. I brought about 2 main problems for me:

• There's no way to see it coming and, unless you just happened to leave the IFF mission for last, chances are that you won't have all the party members in your group and their loyalty missions, meaning that you have to choose between leaving your crew to die or getting your squadmates killed/not recruit them at all. Especially annoying when you're never supposed to worry about taking too long to save people in an RPG.
• The whole thing about Shepard leaving the Normandy in a shuttle with every single specialized fighter in the group while they tested the technology they knew nothing about still makes no sense whatsoever. And that's all that needs to be said about that incredibly stupid moment.

[quote]iakus wrote...

I say bring it on.  If I can take a thresher maw whose acid goes right through Mako shields, I can take a gun turret.[/quote]

Again, slow moving attack that is ridiculously easy to dodge, not highly damaging bullet fire. And the Hammerhead could probably kill the damned thing faster to boot

Also, given that the acid can go straight to the hull because the acid goes through the Mako's shields doesn't really inspire much confidence on your chances of success.

[quote]iakus wrote...

Not a road so much as a slope that's less
than 90 degrees.  They do exist and make it so much easier to do those
pesky sidequests[/quote][*]
[*]
Believe me, when I mean "road", I just mean "something that I can go up with the least bit of ease. I'll take more than 90 degrees... if only the Mako can take it.

[quote]iakus wrote...

Unfortunately,
"corridor levels" make up the entirety of the ME 2 base game as well as
the Firewalker missions.  One DLC that allows some exploration doesn't
undo an entire game.    Unless Overlord DLC reconfigures the missions to
be more exploration-friendly?  I'd pay a few bucks for that.[/quote]

Didn't corridor levels make up the entirety of ME1 too? With the added "bonus" that it looked like you were always attacking the same 3 or 4 types of base over and over again with just a few objects swapped here and there?

Also, since you mentioned it, Overlord does kind of bring back planet exploration. At some points in the game you have to travel from base to base and there's this nice, verdant area that you can explore. There's even a few hidden Cerberus data pods that you can try to recover.

Bioware obviously wants to bring vehicular sections back, but first they want to prove it that they aren't going to draw us away with them this time .

[quote]iakus
wrote...

I rarely completed all tose quests.  I'd pick them up
as I found them, but didn't go out of my way to find them.  And all was
well with the world.[/quote]

Yeah, but some of us are completionists, so I always complete everything . The only exception was, as I mentioned before, the first time I played ME1, where I just wanted to catch up to Saren:).

[quote]iakus wrote...And I have
bullrushed geth troopers before, as I can run right over them with
this big ol' tank I'm driving!../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/quote]

Funny, if you said that about something in ME2, it would just be another "proof" of how ME2 has been "dumbed-down" and just appeals to those who want to charge through everything in their way without thinking too much.

It's not like I hate ME1 or thing that ME2 is perfect, far from it, and I think I've demonstrated that several times. But it's just annoying to see how incredibly rose-tinted some glasses got around here.

[quote]tonnactus wrote...

Its like 1-2 seconds on insanity before
the thing blow up under the fire of one geth trooper. When a vehicle
has less shields then shepardt in combat, its just crap. [/quote]

I don't play on insanity and neither do most people. By your logic of "I do it this way so this is my basis for everything", your argument is automatically invalid.

Yeah, I know, not the most logical reasoning here, but I'm just using your language now.

[quote]worm_burner wrote...

First off that is only 3 out of 20 or
so side missions, meaning that you DONT have to do them.  And did you
ever notice the objective at the Normandy crash site?[/quote]

That is only 3 out of 20 or so side missions that I mentioned as examples. I could go on, you know?

And the Normandy Crash Site actually had some meaning for Shepard and for me as a fan of the previous game. It was the site of an old friend's corpse, I couldn't help but feel saddened at the destruction of the ship and the notion that so many crew members had died from the attack.

Now the Ingredients quest? That was stupid.

My reaction to that was "Grocery shopping? You want me, Commander Shepard, to go do some grocery shopping because that's the only thing that can turn your meals from utter crap into something that's actually edible? Are you f****** kidding me?!"

Definitely not the game's finest moment.

[quote]worm_burner
wrote...

Using the Mako did require strategy, at least on
anything besides casual.  Heavy turrets and Colossus could easily bring
down the barriers and armor of they Mako.  [/quote]

If you forgot to use that comically cartoonish jump... and move every now and then... maybe?

[quote]worm_burner
wrote...

And whats wrong with having to wait the 10-15 seconds
to repair, whats wrong with having a little realism? [/quote]

Because if anything gets in the way of the fun and just becomes a shore, then it should be cut out, realism or no.

For instance, Hitman is a series that's all about careful planning, waiting and only striking when the time is right. And did you know that the devellopers actually chose not to include blood stains in the suits that you could use to disguise yourself, even thought they could do it and knew that it was more realistic? Do you know why? Because it affected the enjoyment of the game! 

Now imagine how much worse it is to just leave your game in stand-by while you go do something else to entertain yourself, while you're playing something that's specifically meant to entertain! Because when that happens, then something is very, very wrong.

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

I repeat for the one hundred thousand
umpteenth time: in ME1 Shepard DID NOT MINE NOTHING! He only
designated the deposites with beacons for the MINERS to come and MINE
the ore.

The collection quests were all like "Shep, in case you
by chance come across something interesting, there'll be a small
XP and money perk for you". Moreover, all the Turian insignia and
Salarian medallions had a small nice and tragic story attached to them.
That was interesting.[/quote]

Mining or signaling doesn't affect
how irrelevant, tedious and unecessary those missions were, it just
allows you to attach a differnt verb to it.

Ow, and the "small
nice and tragic story"? All we needed was just
another Codex entry, not the whole goddamend quests.

[quote]Zulu_DFA
wrote...
"Nowhere" describes pretty much all the arguing on the
Internet. However, it's even more pointlss in this particular thread,
since it's basically meant for us, the disappointed, to vent off our
outrage. The only good thing about you, the satisfied, coming here and
telling us we are all idiots, is that it keeps the thread on the Page 1
of this forum. You see, I disclose this secret for you only because I'm
sure that the amount of fanboyism that will continue to uphold these
endless arguments is can not deplete.[/quote]

You know, some of
us also try to come here to try and have an interessting exchange of
ideas. Hell, the banter I've had with iakus so far has been extremely
pleasant, it's what keeps me coming back the most, and the conceding of
arguments on either side has allowed us to discuss farther into this
topic than I expected at first.

You
used to be a lot more like that Zulu, so what's happened to you? First you could have some pretty insightful points
now you're about as credible as tonnactus or Terror_K. What happened to
you, man? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]

[quote]Terror_K
wrote...



Because aside from the fact that
official reviewers hand out 9's and 10's far too readily these days and
often overhype

and overrate games that the gaming public don't
always receive quite as well, they're evaluating Mass Effect 2 as a game
overall, and not evaluating it as a sequel. Mass Effect 2 succeeds as a
game, but fails as a sequel, and as an RPG.

[/quote]



Because
videogame reviewers just pick up a game without having playing the
previous games, completely ignore the context they're inserted in as a
genre and as game in itself, put it in a blender, take out a few scores
and are done with it. Congratulations, that's brilliant.



Not to
mention that you can just pull out a generic "official reviewers are
just too easy on games", but that has two major flaws:

• Indie reviewers
  like Spoony,
  Angry
  
  Joe and The
  
  Sage also loved the game, generally considering ME2, and I quote "a game that not only builds upon on what its
  predecessor started but which also surpasses it almost every way"
• Even
  
  if your baseless assumption wasn't wrong, it would still take a
  very special kind of game to get both 1st and 3rd place on the
  list of best ranked RPGs ever made on
  
  Gamerankings.

Honestly, that's the best you got?

Modifié par Lusitanum, 06 juillet 2010 - 01:33 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

I'm sorry but Erik Brudvig reviewed both ME 1 and ME 2. He got some flak for his review for ME 1 but it was still ranked as the best 360 game on IGN. The staff was almost unanimous in the agreeance about ME 2. Parish also reviewed both games for 1UP and had some minor grievances with the lack of customization and some of the streamlining and he gave it an A-



Eurogamer also gave ME 2 a 10 and they give everything a 7

[Zulu_DFA]

Lusitanum wrote...

What happened to you, man? ../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png

I played ME2 for the 5th time. And I've been feeling real sick since I finished.

[Blue_dodo]

huh I said this before and I'll say it again, THERE REAlLY NEED TO BE A LIMIT ON HOW MANY QUOTES A PERSON CANPUT IN ON A SINGLE POST....it really is annoying



anyways his topic still going on wow..

[Onyx Jaguar]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Lusitanum wrote...

What happened to you, man? ../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png

I played ME2 for the 5th time. And I've been feeling real sick since I finished.

If you dislike something of course you are going to have a continually negative opinion on further playthroughs.  I have never played a game I liked or disliked and actually started liking it on further playthroughs.  

[Pocketgb]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

"Nowhere" describes pretty much all the arguing on the Internet. However, it's even more pointlss in this particular thread, since it's basically meant for us, the disappointed, to vent off our outrage.

Which is great as long as it holds merit: it's good for developers to see why people are disappointed.

However, most of those who are 'disappointed' have done little to explain or show why, instead just high-fiving anyone with the vaguest amount of dislike for the game and chastizing Bioware for 'selling-out'.

Javier wanted to keep this thread open because there *is* some discussion going on. If that wasn't in here then this thread would've closed up awhile ago.

I'm not just someone who loves ME2, I'm someone who loves both games - but I don't see either one being 'better' as a whole.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

The only good thing about you, the satisfied, coming here and telling us we are all idiots, is that it keeps the thread on the Page 1 of this forum. You see, I disclose this secret for you only because I'm sure that the amount of fanboyism that will continue to uphold these endless arguments is can not deplete.

Link

[MassEffect762]

I love this thread.



No way in heck that Bioware/EA created this game and thought "yeah this product is the best we could do".



This thread is your little scar, so that you remember everything you do has consequences.



Good game it is, not using all your ability(imo) but good game none the less.

[Terror_K]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I disagree, ME 1 is such a technical mess it really shouldn't have been regarded as highly. ME 2 on the other hand is extremely polished.

I feel the opposite. Not that ME1 wasn't a technical mess and that ME2 was, but that ME2 is "more polished" because I personally think the original game felt more complete and polished overall than ME2. The real problem is not so much that ME2 isn't polished, but that it's over-polished in some areas, polished just right in others and almost completely unpolished in areas it really needed to be. ME2 feels, for lack of a better term, schizophrenic to me in its design. Stuff that should have had more to it like N7 quests actually having proper set-ups, dialogue, interesting characters, etc. and a more varied items system that could really do with some depth feel neglected while other factors such as Normandy customisation feel overpolished considering they're basically fluff. Then there's things like the unskippable opening before you can get to the just-as-awful character creator that had next to no work done to it since the first game (of all the things that didn't change, it had to be one of the things that needed it most), the fact that there's next to no companion banter, that the PC version was sloppily coded and that 90% of so-called consequences from imports are barely different and have next to no effect on things. ME2 definitely feels like it needed another month or two in the oven, and really does seem like the main story, the shooter combat  and the pointless fluff stuff were given 90% of the focus while the rest was just slapped on.

Lusitanum wrote...

Sage also loved the game, generally considering ME2, and I quote "a game that not only builds upon on what its
predecessor started but which also surpasses it almost every way"

Every since the game came out, that has been one of the biggest exaggerations and misnomers ever spouted about ME2. ME2 is about as deep as a dried up puddle that never existed. It's gameplay is linear and samey, no matter what the class you choose or the import you bring in, and it does such a bad job in living up to its legacy and promises that it would make Peter Molyneux blush.

[Massadonious1]

tonnactus wrote...
Where would you hide as a pirat? Those planets are ideal for this.

Planets whose only structures are 4 room bases that automatically show up on the minimap and apparently have all been scouted by the Alliance or random freighters who are only in the area to vent their engines.

Let's face it, the criminals in ME1 were idiots.

[SithLordExarKun]

MassEffect762 wrote...


This thread is your little scar, so that you remember everything you do has consequences.

A very tiny and insignificant scar that bioware seems to not give a rats ass about considering they stopped interacting with the community.

Modifié par SithLordExarKun, 06 juillet 2010 - 05:18 .

[bjdbwea]

MassEffect762 wrote...

No way in heck that Bioware/EA created this game and thought "yeah this product is the best we could do".

This is my opinion as well. There's no way that the same developers who went from BG 2 over KotoR to ME 1, would think that ME 2 is the next logical step in evolution. Of course they see the numerous ways in which it is a step back and doesn't live up to their previous works. They might not really care, after all the sales numbers are all that matters these days, but there's no way they've just forgotten the lessons they learned through the years on what a good game needs.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 06 juillet 2010 - 05:20 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Terror_K wrote...
ME2 feels, for lack of a better term, schizophrenic.

+ 1000.

[SithLordExarKun]

Terror_K wrote...


Every since the game came out, that has been one of the biggest exaggerations and misnomers ever spouted about ME2. ME2 is about as deep as a dried up puddle that never existed. It's gameplay is linear and samey, no matter what the class you choose or the import you bring in, and it does such a bad job in living up to its legacy and promises that it would make Peter Molyneux blush.

Thats an exaggeration to you. Basically this is the whole problem, just because there's an existence of a flaw to YOU, does not universall mean its a flaw to everybody.

[Massadonious1]

I'm sure that all the people coining Dragon Age as the "spiritual" successor to Baldur's Gate aren't exaggerating simply because it has stats, lewts, and other awesome arrpeegee stuffz.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 06 juillet 2010 - 05:31 .

[bjdbwea]

Terror_K wrote...

Stuff that should have had more to it like N7 quests actually having proper set-ups, dialogue, interesting characters, etc. and a more varied items system that could really do with some depth feel neglected while other factors such as Normandy customisation feel overpolished considering they're basically fluff.

I have the theory that at some point during development the release date was moved forward several months. That would explain several things. Or maybe the time frame was simply too short to begin with. In any case, ME 2 would have needed a few more months of development, that much is obvious. Back in the days, BioWare could postpone the release, but nowadays and with EA calling the shots, it was obviously not possible.

[Iakus]

[quote]Lusitanum wrote...

[quote]iakus wrote...

Some cut scenes I don't mind sitting through, others I'd like to skip ahead, so yeah, I'm with you on that.
Sounds like you had the same reaction to Garrus dying that I had to the whole Horizon reunion .  At least yours could be undone.  I [/quote]

BTW, what did the Horizon reunion did to you that traumatized you so much:lol:? I don't recall you ever mentioning the specifics.

[/quote]

Well I finally get a mission to face the Collectors, be a big hero, and one of my old squaddies is there!  Ashley, my favorite of the old ME 1 gang!

I spend the mission blastingaliens, pick up a particle beam, and have a fun old time, thinking maybe ME 2 won't be so bad after all.  Then I got to speak to Ash.  Ashley Williams, wos life I'd saved on several occasions, who had been with me since this whole Reaper mess started, who was with me when Sovereign attacked the Citadel and who witnessed the destruction of the Normandy:

Who dismissed the fact that I've been dead for two years for not contacting her

Who accused me of being a traitor for working for Cerberus Despite all my protests that I have not joined Cerberus, we're trying to stop the Reapers.  And by the way, I just saved a colony thankyouverymuch.

(And btw, I don't think Shepard is given emphatic enough protests that you have not joined Cerberus)

She saw nothing unusual in the fact that Garrus is with me (or Mordin) despite this being a "Cerberus" operration, which is a human-centric organization.  Maybe everything here isn't what it seems?  Maybe I should have gotten Joker and Doctor Chakwas on the line too? 

So, yeah, I get chewed out by one of my favorite characters in the ME universe for things either haven't done, couldn't do, or has been grossly misinterpreted.  I agreed with Shepard when he said "I've had enough of this colony"

It's really not much better when it's Kaiden there.  Lines are virtually identical. 

Is that a train whistle I hear?

[quote]Lusitanum wrote...

[quote]iakus wrote...

I can't speak for the reasons why others make their choice, but I make my choices in rpgs because I want the story to progress in a cetain way. Not because of "cold equations" or achievements.  I find "achievement runs" make for boring playthroughs.  I don't wanna count how many times i use overload or rush from the Citadel to drag Liara all over creation.  If I do that it's because I want to see her reactions on particular missions [/quote]

Hey, I'm just pointing out some of the reactions and reasonings and pointing out that, if we actually cared more for the characters, we wouldn't think so much in videogame terms when we make some choices, nothing else . I mean, I guess we all tend to view places and people as "real" when we care for them and just as things in a videogame when we don't give two craps about them.

Lord knows I loved every single companion in both Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2, but I can't for the life of me remember the name of a single NPC in Borderlands, because I simply never gave a toss about any of them. Unless you consider "wishing they'd die a gruesome, fiery death just so they would stop their pathetic attemps at humor" as caring for what happens to them.

[/quote]

Maybe it's the sign of a true rpg player that they become a little emotionally invested in the characters of their game.  Or maybe that they've developed an unhealthy attatchment to the game

One reason why i think ME 2 falls flat.  They're interesting, but I just don't think the extra effort was put into them to seem real and alive as they should be.  They seem to be more comic book characters or, dare i say, video game characters.  Not like Dragon Age (which was truly exceptional), not even like Mass Effect 1

[quote]Lusitanum wrote...

I really don't think a third and much less a quarter of the game would be a good idea, especially since the game itself can last for about 50 hours. I can agree with you that it could certainly have been longer (if it didn't keep me in the dark about wheter or not some decision I made was totally wrong ), but a quarter of the game is just way too long for any one mission.
[/quote]

Perhaps it is a bit too long.  But you get what I mean, the Suicide mission should have been much longer and more involved.  I said a while back that I thought the Suicide Mission should have been the Landsmeet, not the battle of Denerim.

[quote]Lusitanum wrote...

[quote]iakus wrote...

Two seperate loyalty missions based on your actions in ME 1?  Nah, smacks to much of consequences carrying over from ME 1.  I mean, where's the email potential in that [/quote]

I think there are enough newcomers pissed at the fact that they can't access some of their content because they don't have a ME1 save game, I don't think we don't need to enrage the fans that did play the first game but just don't happen to have two different save files...

[/quote]

It's probably not a very nice thing for me to say, but i don't have a lot of sympathy for anyone who complains about that.  It's been said from the beginning that this was a trilogy and one of the big features that was peddled was importing saves.  As it is, I'm thinking Bioware massively overplayed that little feature.

And don't have two save files?  Play the game again!  More replayability can't be a bad thing, can it?

[quote]Lusitanum wrote...

Hey, I said they were similar but not identical, didn't I ?
[/quote]

Yes, uncomfortably similar, as in "Garrus' injuries seems to have caused memory loss" similar

[quote]Lusitanum wrote...

[quote]iakus wrote...

I disagree here.  All through the game we're told we need to build a team and keep them focused. "The team" is supposed to be the whole thrust of the game.  But what the game is seriously lacking in is teamwork.  A few scenes of that, with or without Shepard present, would definitely have helped.  Hold the Line would have been a perfect moment, but other scenes could have been added to the Suicide Mission as well.[/quote]

That could be a pretty good idea for ME3: more moments where you see all your squadmates as an actual team and not just isolated members. It would be quite a nice departure from the mold that Bioware never broke until now.

I mean, I don't ever recall a Bioware game where your team was more than the sum of its parts. Maybe we could see something new in ME3 with all this focus on the squad...
[/quote]

But a recent interview  said that the focus on the squad was ME 2's story.  This was it!  They were trying something new! (never mind that experimenting in the middle of a series is rarely a good idea) Squad development was perfectly fine for a typical Bioware game (what some derisively call a "Star Map" game) actually better than fine.  But for what they wanted it was sadly inadequate.   Ifthis is as good as it gets, I want them to keep it far far away from it in ME 3

[quote]Lusitanum wrote...

[quote]iakus wrote...

You're really bitter about losing Garrus, aren't ya?  [/quote]

YES!!


But, small detail here, ALL THE OTHER TECH SPECIALISTS ARE STANDING - RIGHT - THERE!! If he wasn't the most competent of the bunch, then why didn't someone else, like Tali or Legion, replace him when they got there? That way we would have traded a weak hacker and a weak fighter for a good hacker and a good fighter after they swaped places!

[/quote]

So you wished they'd come together as a team and interacted a little more, like, say, a squad rather than a bunch of individials who only answer to Shepard 


[quote]Lusitanum wrote...

[quote]iakus wrote...

I think it's a general weakness in the game.  A team is supposed to come together from all these recruitment and loyalty missions.  But there's little evidence of it.  Hold the Line is just one big (perhaps the biggest) example of that lack of evidence.  I've mentioned others before, such as lack of dialogue in loyalty missions.  My problem is if we're supposed to build a team we need to see a team come together.  Not be told that we've done enough recruitment/loyalty missions that the cookbook tells us "remove from oven and begin Suicide Mission"[/quote]

I also could have lived without the whole "attack on the Normandy" thing. I brought about 2 main problems for me:

• There's no way to see it coming and, unless you just happened to leave the IFF mission for last, chances are that you won't have all the party members in your group and their loyalty missions, meaning that you have to choose between leaving your crew to die or getting your squadmates killed/not recruit them at all. Especially annoying when you're never supposed to worry about taking too long to save people in an RPG.
  
  
  
• The whole thing about Shepard leaving the Normandy in a shuttle with every single specialized fighter in the group while they tested the technology they knew nothing about still makes no sense whatsoever. And that's all that needs to be said about that incredibly stupid moment.

[/quote]

After the Collector Ship mission, I decided I was through being jerked around by TiM (actually I was through with it since the beginning but the plot wouldn't let me do anything about it) and did al the recruitment and loyalty missions I could afterwards so he wouldn't castch me off guard again.  Turns out it wasn't him I needed to be worried about

And yes, It makes zero sense for a ship commander and is XO )That would be Miranda) would leave the ship under those conditions. They're responsible for the blasted thing, not to mention the entire crew.  Not Tim, he just pays the bills.  It's the Commander, and when he's not around, the first officer.

[quote]Lusitanum wrote...

[quote]iakus wrote...

I say bring it on.  If I can take a thresher maw whose acid goes right through Mako shields, I can take a gun turret.[/quote]

Again, slow moving attack that is ridiculously easy to dodge, not highly damaging bullet fire. And the Hammerhead could probably kill the damned thing faster to boot

Also, given that the acid can go straight to the hull because the acid goes through the Mako's shields doesn't really inspire much confidence on your chances of success.
[/quote]

Only if the Hammerhead's rockets have nothing else to lock onto.  I wonder how many space squirrels have come to a sad fate taking a shot meant for a geth 

[quote]Lusitanum wrote...
[quote]iakus wrote...

Not a road so much as a slope that's less
than 90 degrees.  They do exist and make it so much easier to do those
pesky sidequests[/quote]


Believe me, when I mean "road", I just mean "something that I can go up with the least bit of ease. I'll take more than 90 degrees... if only the Mako can take it.

[/quote]

I honestly can't think of more than a couple of places where that's a big deal.  Usually you drive around for a few moments you find a decent route.

[quote]Lusitanum wrote...

[quote]iakus wrote...

Unfortunately,
"corridor levels" make up the entirety of the ME 2 base game as well as
the Firewalker missions.  One DLC that allows some exploration doesn't
undo an entire game.    Unless Overlord DLC reconfigures the missions to
be more exploration-friendly?  I'd pay a few bucks for that.[/quote]

Didn't corridor levels make up the entirety of ME1 too? With the added "bonus" that it looked like you were always attacking the same 3 or 4 types of base over and over again with just a few objects swapped here and there?

Also, since you mentioned it, Overlord does kind of bring back planet exploration. At some points in the game you have to travel from base to base and there's this nice, verdant area that you can explore. There's even a few hidden Cerberus data pods that you can try to recover.

Bioware obviously wants to bring vehicular sections back, but first they want to prove it that they aren't going to draw us away with them this time .

[/quote]

Side missions did have a sort of sameness to them in ME 1 (I could say the same for the missions in general in ME 2 but that's a topic for a different wall of text)  I  could accept that though.  I'm sure if you're going to build a hidden base out in the middle of nowhere, prefabs are the way to go to avoid notice.  Vehicle travel, however, was much more open.  Whether you liked the terrain or not was a different story.

It sounds like Overlord is doing exactly what i said should have been done with the Mako:  make the terrain more interesting for people who need more than barren rocks.  Smooth out the mountains some, and you're done!  Now if they can get us a vehicle that shoots straight and isn't made of paper mache...

[quote]Lusitanum wrote...
[quote]iakus wrote...And I have
bullrushed geth troopers before, as I can [b]run right over them with
this big ol' tank I'm driving!../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/quote]

Funny, if you said that about something in ME2, it would just be another "proof" of how ME2 has been "dumbed-down" and just appeals to those who want to charge through everything in their way without thinking too much.

It's not like I hate ME1 or thing that ME2 is perfect, far from it, and I think I've demonstrated that several times. But it's just annoying to see how incredibly rose-tinted some glasses got around here.

[/quote]

Give me a little credit!  I've gone into great detail about what I think is wrong with ME 2, mainly in directions it could have and should have gone. I don't knock the Hammerhead cause I think it's dumbed down.  I knock the Hammerhead because it's a silly looking, overly fragile vehicle that plays more like a Mario Brothers game than a space fantasy.  If you could hover over geth with it, fire rockets and roast em from above, i 'd say good for you!  As it is, you'd probably get a piece of geth caught in some intake pipe or other and the Hammerhead would explode

Modifié par iakus, 06 juillet 2010 - 06:08 .

[Lumikki]

LilKis1 wrote...

How could anyone be dissappointed in this game when it got rave reviews everywhere!

That's simple, some players wanted ME2 to be something else than it is. It's like company makes car game when some people wanted motorcycle game. There are only few valid complains in this threads, what most of players can agree. Mostly this thread seem to be about ME1 VS ME2. I want this and not that. What someone allready sayed, opinion as taste of games.

Modifié par Lumikki, 06 juillet 2010 - 06:12 .

[Iakus]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

MassEffect762 wrote...


This thread is your little scar, so that you remember everything you do has consequences.

A very tiny and insignificant scar that bioware seems to not give a rats ass about considering they stopped interacting with the community.

Does that speak more of the community or of  Bioware?

[Terror_K]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Every since the game came out, that has been one of the biggest exaggerations and misnomers ever spouted about ME2. ME2 is about as deep as a dried up puddle that never existed. It's gameplay is linear and samey, no matter what the class you choose or the import you bring in, and it does such a bad job in living up to its legacy and promises that it would make Peter Molyneux blush.

Thats an exaggeration to you. Basically this is the whole problem, just because there's an existence of a flaw to YOU, does not universall mean its a flaw to everybody.

No, but beyond some fanatic douches I don't see anybody here worth paying attention to saying that ME2 was better than ME1 in every way. Most of those who defend ME2 still at least acknowledge that it has some weaknesses here and there, and that the original game did do some things better (for example, many feel squad banter was better in ME1, that The Mako was still better than The Hammerhead, that elevators were better than loading screens, that weapons mods disappearing are a step back and that UNC missions had more polish and better set-ups and integration than N7 ones... just for a few examples.).

iakus wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

MassEffect762 wrote...


This thread is your little scar, so that you remember everything you do has consequences.

A very tiny and insignificant scar that bioware seems to not give a rats ass about considering they stopped interacting with the community.

Does that speak more of the community or of  Bioware?

Indeed. I suspect they're afraid of posting here after ME2's release because of some of the backlash, because BioWare used to be known for their community interaction, and right now it's at an all time low. ME2 may have been one of their most critically acclaimed games out there in the press, but here on the forums it's also one of the most criticised too. A lot of people have a lot of genuine concerns, and they said prior to release that the game was still a strong RPG that would satisfy old fans, and now post release many don't feel that way at all.

Also, if it's such a tiny scar, then they wouldn't have made the first claims regarding development of ME3 to be "strengthening the RPG aspects and customisation." They know there are people here who are ticked off at the direction they took or at the very least thought they went too far with it, and they're afraid to show their faces because of it.

[Onyx Jaguar]

iakus wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

MassEffect762 wrote...


This thread is your little scar, so that you remember everything you do has consequences.

A very tiny and insignificant scar that bioware seems to not give a rats ass about considering they stopped interacting with the community.

Does that speak more of the community or of  Bioware?

Yes