10273 réponses à ce sujet

[tonnactus]

Pocketgb wrote...


classic vidya game fan syndrome:
"What!? I didn't get a letter?
"What!? I only got a letter!?"

Someone would expect that at least videomails are common in the feature.

[A_y0ner_]

tonnactus wrote...

drunkenposter wrote...

Just to elaborate on my last post ...
I do like ME 2. I really do. I'm currently enjoying my fourth playthrough, and I almost never play any game more than once (Bioware games have been a notable exception). Still, ME 2 is, for me, like a rock album with twelve great songs that somehow doesn't add up to something more. The songs are all great, but they don't hang together, don't cohere, don't elevate the whole of it into something undeniably great. It's the old "desert island test." What games would you have to have if you were standed for life on a desert island?
Personally, I would have to have ME, but ME 2 would not make the cut.

12 great songs? Ok.For me,only 4 songs of 12 are worth it.Grunt,Samara,Talis and Legion.Thats it. The rest of the missions,especially Garrus and Mirandas,are horrible and boring.Just some merc slaughter,thats it.

I think some of the loyalty missions were actually quite interesting and brought a much needed deeper level into the characters.
 For instance, I thought Miranda's loyalty mission was extremely engaging intellectually and made Miranda a real deeper character.  The problem however was the same problem ME2 suffered through-out:  ME2 focuses too much on "shooting" and loses its sense of realism and personality.
Miranda's mission, like most missions, has the same mindless shooting baddies for about an hour in the same general format with a rinse and repeat formula. The ending sequence which is generally more interesting and engaging is somehow tainted with the previous hour of mind-numbing repetitive shooting. There's just too much focus on flash and no actual substance.

Another obvious note worthy of mention is Miranda's costume. If you give Miranda a chance, she's a complex person dealing with a lot of philisophical issues. These add substance to her character. But the development team thought gamers would like her to wear a ****ty and revealing outfit even thouh it doesn't fit her personality and makes her more stereotype. Again, it's just flash over substance.

[tonnactus]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Biotics – In ME2 biotics switch
between
too easy and too useless. I have a choice of undefended
opponents
being swept away, or warp spamming every armoured opponent
there is.
Don’t think enough time was spent on this area of combat,
and it
shows. Plus the game must still be played like a third person
shooter.
Now you “control the battlefield” as an adept by
cowering behind
cover, popping out and throwing limited biotics as if
you were
popping out to shoot a weapon. Yeah, real empowering. Also,
universal
cooldown sucks and turns “tactics” into a procession of
boring move
executions. In ME1 it really felt like you could unleash
great combos
of moves in tandem with your teammates. In ME2 its slowed down and
spoilt by universal
cooldown, less powers overall (especially with
teammates who were just bonus powers basically), and ridiculous
defensive abilities - "Oh of course that kinetic barrier designed to
stop gunfire or that armour plating can stop the force of a singularity!
Why wouldnt it?"

To make things even worser,squadmates cooldowns are at least double as long as that of shepardt.What reduces the amount of biotic combinations too.

I can only speak for myself, but i liked it that the squadmates of the first game were nearly equal compared with shepardt.Now,the best specialists in the galaxy only have three talents available and much longer cooldowns then shepardt.

[tonnactus]

A_y0ner_ wrote...

I think some of the loyalty missions were actually quite interesting and brought a much needed deeper level into the characters.
 

That is enough to please me. To be honest , i dont care. The examples i gave expand the the Mass Effect Universe,like the krogan ritus their do when they grow up or something new about the geth.
The other missions dont give me that and just bored me.Boring revenge.Daddy issues. Parent issues.

Not my thing.

[Pocketgb]

tonnactus wrote...

Pocketgb wrote...


classic vidya game fan syndrome:
"What!? I didn't get a letter?
"What!? I only got a letter!?"

Someone would expect that at least videomails are common in the feature.

Too bad, since we're also taking MP3's files at face value for evidence.

We want to have a ping-pong battle discussing plotholes or do we want to drop this?

[tonnactus]

Pocketgb wrote...


Too bad, since we're also taking MP3's files at face value for evidence.

We want to have a ping-pong battle discussing plotholes or do we want to drop this?

Missed the point. At least the messages could be videomails regarding the "important decisions".

[MassEffect762]

tonnactus wrote...

Pocketgb wrote...


Too bad, since we're also taking MP3's files at face value for evidence.

We want to have a ping-pong battle discussing plotholes or do we want to drop this?

Missed the point. At least the messages could be videomails regarding the "important decisions".

Agreed.

Thing is that would co$t more.

MAYBE bioware should wait for TOR to be a successful cash cow and then make a product that raises their own bar.

[Pocketgb]

tonnactus wrote...

Pocketgb wrote...


Too bad, since we're also taking MP3's files at face value for evidence.

We want to have a ping-pong battle discussing plotholes or do we want to drop this?

Missed the point. At least the messages could be videomails regarding the "important decisions".

There could've been 'at least' full frontal confrontations with each person that you affected. Of course, Bioware isn't a cash cow nor are they god, so they couldn't do it with everyone.

This isn't to say we got totally screwed over, of course, since there are a few central characters from ME1 that we run into (Shiala being my favorite). And some of the e-mails were rather well done, notably Han Olar's.

I suppose what could've been done was putting more emphasis on encounters/choices based on the 'origins': Sole survivor, etc.

[tonnactus]

Pocketgb wrote...

There could've been 'at least' full frontal confrontations with each person that you affected. Of course, Bioware isn't a cash cow nor are they god, so they couldn't do it with everyone.

But at least with some.Better then no one.

This isn't to say we got totally screwed over, of course, since there are a few central characters from ME1 that we run into (Shiala being my favorite).

Too bad that her scene is bugged/wrong done.(point in the wrong direction)

[Pocketgb]

tonnactus wrote...

But at least with some.

They did...

Too bad that her scene is bugged/wrong done.(point in the wrong direction)

And still you complain about it.

[Mageofthedas2012]

Yes the emails were well done and I often smiled when done reading them, but then frowned again, some of the choices I made should have carried over to Mass Effect 2 then just a email, Conrad should have been an email.

[Pocketgb]

Except for many he was quite a big fan favorite. Same with the Turian seller and the guy wanting a refund.

[Mageofthedas2012]

Ehh I still felt that some of those could have been resolved in ME2

[Iakus]

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

[quote]iakus wrote...

Really? I found only Liara's changes to be more bizzare than theirs. GIven all they've been through, I think Shep's earned a little bit of trust
[/quote]
That's what you get when you look at a paragon character from aside. Self-righteousness with a touch of hypocrisy. No apologies, just being honest.
[/quote]

I'm not entirely sure what that means.  The character's responses are odd because I'm playing a paragon Shep?

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

The "new" Liara was unexpected from the ME1 experience, but it's not like completely unexplainable. First, she is a bit childish (she's only 108, remember?), and, secondly, as the Asari species lacks the boys (so to say), they need to be both chicks and dicks at the same time. So Liara is showing her innate "commando" instincts.

[/quote]

I already thought she was a bit childish in ME 1.  Not in a bad way, really.  Just naive, bookish, a little nerdy.  Not at all the "I can kill you WITH MY BRAIN" attitude we see later.  Honestly, that's the kind of attitude I'd morel likely see in Ashley.  If she was a powerful biotic, that is.

Maybe she's channeling her "inner Benezia" now, and maybe she experienced some truly traumatic events in the time between Shepard's death and when we see her again to expain her change.  But if I have to pay extra for a plot point in the game to make sense,  that is, at best, poor planning.  At worst, a naked money grab.

But like you said, she is very young for an asari.  Maybe it's adolescent angst.  Maybe it's just her "alien-ness"  Maybe they experience odd mood swings every couple of years (insert crude asari joke here)

But two years isn't a whole lot of time to a human, looking at the big picture.  To an asari, it's barely te blink of an eye.  The change we saw was fairly major for such a short period of time. Which brings us to another oddity: from esssentially "grad school archaeologist" to her current occupation in two years?  Huh?

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

At least Ashley did not trust me on my word. That's a credit to her character, not a deficiency. Her loyalties were elsewhere, but her character consistency was not questionable, like, for instance, that of Garrus-the-Spineless-Turian... Even in case she was romanced in ME1, come on! It's not like that was a love of a lifetime! Soldiers are supposed to go where the duty calls, not their libido.

[quote]

Not trusting Shepard at is/her word is one thing.  but Garrus is standing right there, accusing Ash of letting her emotions cloud her judgement (Yeah I know, "pot, meet kettle").  in my first playthrough, Mordin was there too.  Since when did Cerberus accept nonhumans into their ranks?  If that wasn't enough I've got Joker on the line.  Given the option, I'd have instructed him to take grab Dr Chakwas and take a shuttle to the surface, we can have a Normandy reunion and swap stories!

Don't trust Cerberus, that's fine.  Thats great, even  I don't trust em either.  Can't come with?  Didn't expect ya to.  You have responsiblities.  It's cool.  But Shepard saved the frakking galaxy two years ago.  Kaiden/Ashley was there!  Shep saved your rump on Virmire!  And oh, yeah Shep just saved another colony from bug-eyed monsters, with him/her as one of the "savees"!.  Between that, Garrus, Mordin, and Grunt on my crew.  Plus Joker and Chakwas.  Maybe there's an explanation for all this? 

The way I see it, only the most haredned renegade who treated him or her like absolute dirt should warrant the kind of reaction Shep gets.  Barring some really distrubing reports being circulated.  If that were the case, Shep really should have been made aware of that in the game.

My conclusion:  Like Tali's bizarrely trusting behavior towards Shepard regardless of ME 1 attitude.  the Virmire Survivor's attitude, regardless of ME 1 gameplay, is just a way of channeling the game towards a predetermined outcome (ie railroading)  As the player says to the DM "Why don't you just write out the adventure for me and I'll read it later"

Sorry bout that.  This is a particularly sore point for me in the travesty that is the ME 2 story ("imo' of course)

[/quote]

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

That's why I don't blame the writers' gang for the poor plot of ME2. The plot went sour mostly when other, let's say, interest groups made sure to be involved in defining it. Which, I suspect, was happening every now and then at all stages of ME2 development. Even so, the main plot kept quite coherent until the "crew abduction" (all "holes" until that moment are mostly "unexplained stuff").[/quote]

After reading these boards for months now, I'm getting a pretty good idea what hey intended to do.  And it was pretty clever.  But spectacularly badly implemented.  Not just 'cause of "fan service".  I think they sacrificed dramatic tension for adreneline (not "splosions"  to the defenders out there.  There's a difference)  But that's probably the topic of another post.  this one's plenty long enough as it is

Modifié par iakus, 11 juillet 2010 - 05:22 .

[Zulu_DFA]

iakus wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

iakus wrote...

Really? I found only Liara's changes to be more bizzare than theirs. GIven all they've been through, I think Shep's earned a little bit of trust

That's what you get when you look at a paragon character from aside. Self-righteousness with a touch of hypocrisy. No apologies, just being honest.

I'm not entirely sure what that means.  The character's responses are odd because I'm playing a paragon Shep?

No. Ashley's responses are odd because she is trying to play paragon Shep!

iakus wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

The "new" Liara was unexpected from the ME1 experience, but it's not like completely unexplainable. First, she is a bit childish (she's only 108, remember?), and, secondly, as the Asari species lacks the boys (so to say), they need to be both chicks and dicks at the same time. So Liara is showing her innate "commando" instincts.

I already thought she was a bit childish in ME 1.  Not in a bad way, really.  Just naive, bookish, a little nerdy.  Not at all the "I can kill you WITH MY BRAIN" attitude we see later.  Honestly, that's the kind of attitude I'd morel likely see in Ashley.  If she was a powerful biotic, that is.

Maybe she's channeling her "inner Benezia" now, and maybe she experienced some truly traumatic events in the time between Shepard's death and when we see her again to expain her change.  But if I have to pay extra for a plot point in the game to make sense,  that is, at best, poor planning.  At worst, a naked money grab.

But like you said, she is very young for an asari.  Maybe it's adolescent angst.  Maybe it's just her "alien-ness"  Maybe they experience odd mood swings every couple of years (insert crude asari joke here)

Granted. Asari have cockpits... oh, no, they don't!

iakus wrote...
But two years isn't a whole lot of time to a human, looking at the big picture.  To an asari, it's barely te blink of an eye.  The change we saw was fairly major for such a short period of time. Which brings us to another oddity: from esssentially "grad school archaeologist" to her current occupation in two years?  Huh?

First, let's face it. She was not very good at archaeology. Just do ME1 my way: recruit Liara last (I mean after Virmire), and you'll get a hilarious scene with her, that makes it quite sensible that she makes such an abrupt exit from the science.

Second, the poor piece of writing is Shepard getting astonished about the two year long "obsession". Shepard must understand, that to an asari two years is a joke. Some other asari you meet make it clear that sometimes the easiest solution for them is to "outlive" the problem.

iakus wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

At least Ashley did not trust me on my word. That's a credit to her character, not a deficiency. Her loyalties were elsewhere, but her character consistency was not questionable, like, for instance, that of Garrus-the-Spineless-Turian... Even in case she was romanced in ME1, come on! It's not like that was a love of a lifetime! Soldiers are supposed to go where the duty calls, not their libido.

Not trusting Shepard at is/her word is one thing.  but Garrus is standing right there, accusing Ash of letting her emotions cloud her judgement (Yeah I know, "pot, meet kettle").  in my first playthrough, Mordin was there too.  Since when did Cerberus accept nonhumans into their ranks?  If that wasn't enough I've got Joker on the line.  Given the option, I'd have instructed him to take grab Dr Chakwas and take a shuttle to the surface, we can have a Normandy reunion and swap stories!

Don't trust Cerberus, that's fine.  Thats great, even  I don't trust em either.  Can't come with?  Didn't expect ya to.  You have responsiblities.  It's cool.  But Shepard saved the frakking galaxy two years ago.  Kaiden/Ashley was there!  Shep saved your rump on Virmire!  And oh, yeah Shep just saved another colony from bug-eyed monsters, with him/her as one of the "savees"!.  Between that, Garrus, Mordin, and Grunt on my crew.  Plus Joker and Chakwas.  Maybe there's an explanation for all this? 

The way I see it, only the most haredned renegade who treated him or her like absolute dirt should warrant the kind of reaction Shep gets.  Barring some really distrubing reports being circulated.  If that were the case, Shep really should have been made aware of that in the game.

My conclusion:  Like Tali's bizarrely trusting behavior towards Shepard regardless of ME 1 attitude.  the Virmire Survivor's attitude, regardless of ME 1 gameplay, is just a way of channeling the game towards a predetermined outcome (ie railroading)  As the player says to the DM "Why don't you just write out the adventure for me and I'll read it later"
Sorry bout that.  This is a particularly sore point for me in the travesty that is the ME 2 story ("imo' of course)

Well, I see your point. A parogon character should recognize another paroagon character... At least, I heard, Ashley sends an "I'm sorry e-mail" if she had been romanced.

I wish TIM had also some "character development" and dropped his preposterours remarks about my "idealism"  by the end of the game... A renegade character should recoginze another renegade character.

And I wish Ashley lost her stupid Phoenix armor, and put on something military.

iakus wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
That's why I don't blame the writers' gang for the poor plot of ME2. The plot went sour mostly when other, let's say, interest groups made sure to be involved in defining it. Which, I suspect, was happening every now and then at all stages of ME2 development. Even so, the main plot kept quite coherent until the "crew abduction" (all "holes" until that moment are mostly "unexplained stuff").

After reading these boards for months now, I'm getting a pretty good idea what hey intended to do.  And it was pretty clever.  But spectacularly badly implemented.  Not just 'cause of "fan service".  I think they sacrificed dramatic tension for adreneline (not "splosions"  to the defenders out there.  There's a difference)  But that's probably the topic of another post.  this one's plenty long enough as it is

For me, on the first playthrough it was quite tense and high-adrenaline. But not due to the game itself as much as to the pre-release "suicide mission" hype. I was expecting to lose many squadmates and probably fail the mission. Turned out it was almost a space picnic. Never felt any tension or adrenaline rush after that. Played the game several times more (with modding and save-editing) just to put some sense in the story, and alleviate the initial dissapointment that hit me like a ton of bricks, when the credits started after the first playthrough. Turned out, with every subsequent playthrough the disappointment only deepened.

BTW, I normally do not care for popular music, but the Credits Song in ME1 comes now as a nice touch (I mean, just the fact of it, I don't even remember the tune itself) that was blatantly neglected in "2".

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 11 juillet 2010 - 04:04 .

[Iakus]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

No. Ashley's responses are odd because she is trying to play paragon Shep!

If she was being Paragon, she wasn't being very good at it.  Paragon responses are "Need some help?  Sure, no problem!  Let's go right now!  No strings!" 

Zulu_DFA wrote...

First, let's face it. She was not very good at archaeology. Just do ME1 my way: recruit Liara last (I mean after Virmire), and you'll get a hilarious scene with her, that makes it quite sensible that she makes such an abrupt exit from the science.

Actually, I always assumed she was a better archaeologist than most gave her credit for.  She was, after all, one of the few to find even hints of pre-Prothean civilizations, and came to the conclusion that there was a cycle of destruction going on in the galaxy.  And that was before she learned of the Reapers

And I've heard of those scenes.  I may have to try them someday. 

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Second, the poor piece of writing is Shepard getting astonished about the two year long "obsession". Shepard must understand, that to an asari two years is a joke. Some other asari you meet make it clear that sometimes the easiest solution for them is to "outlive" the problem.

I'm, willing to cut some slack here given that Shepard is still looking at things from a human perspective.  Why Samara wouldn't say anything to that effect is another story entirely.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Well, I see your point. A parogon character should recognize another paroagon character... At least, I heard, Ashley sends an "I'm sorry e-mail" if she had been romanced.

I wish TIM had also some "character development" and dropped his preposterours remarks about my "idealism"  by the end of the game... A renegade character should recoginze another renegade character.

And I wish Ashley lost her stupid Phoenix armor, and put on something military.

First pint:  It's more than paragon/renegade.  It's a character being willfuly ignorant (or perhaps wilfully stupid is a more accurate term) of events happening all around.  Horizon was no ordinary colony raid.  Old enemies coming to your aid?  Led by a dead hero?  You're a Commander now, Kaiden.  Might wanna get your facts straight so your report sounds reasonably coherent, at least.

Second point:  Yeah I was kinda hoping TIM would be more of the "I'm an unrepentant villain, but you can't stop the Reapers without my help" kind of character.  More moral quadaries to have to deal with.  Instead he seemed to be trying to drag out some kind of Jedi "From a certain point of view" argument.

Third point:  I've been wishing for that since ME 1.  Instead we get Miranda, Jack, and Samara, who make the Phoenix armor look like Mandalorean armor.

Zulu_DFA wrote...]
For me, on the first playthrough it was quite tense and high-adrenaline. But not due to the game itself as much as to the pre-release "suicide mission" hype. I was expecting to lose many squadmates and probably fail the mission. Turned out it was almost a space picnic. Never felt any tension or adrenaline rush after that. Played the game several times more (with modding and save-editing) just to put some sense in the story, and alleviate the initial dissapointment that hit me like a ton of bricks, when the credits started after the first playthrough. Turned out, with every subsequent playthrough the disappointment only deepened.

I went into the "dark second act" expecting Shepard's life to fall apart over the course of the game.  Allies to leave, the ship to get shot out from under him.  A massive threat, bigger than the geth to rear it ugly head, and in the end he'd have to go to a hated foe (Cerberus) for help and recruit a band of capable scumbags for a mission that, as you said, losing several characters was not only possible but likely.

Turns out most of that happened in the first ten minutes, let alone ten hours.  All the mystique of the game was gone by the time Freedom's Progress was over.

 If Bioware wanted to put the screws to Shepard's life, they should do it over the course of the game.  "Rocks fall.  Everyone dies" is not a good way to set the stage for an adventure.  Even if you do "get better"  Rather than focus on Shepard being in a very dark place, alone and friendless, trying to build a new squad to protect the galaxy, we get "recruitment missions"  which mainly involved shooting mercenaries in fast-paced adrenaline-pumping shooter action.  And "loyalty missions"  which mostly involved...shooting mercenaries in fast-paced adrenaline-pumping shooter action...

But in one of them you get to fight a thresher maw.  On foot!

[Lumikki]

As this is about disapointment of Mass Effects 2, then I bring one of my disapointment here. I also say, this is my opinion.

I'm playing still Kotor and I have notice some similarity in one stuff and that's squad members background dialogs. One thing what I don't like roleplaying games or TV-series is how they try to explain why someone is behaving they are, by trying to force the history of that person as explaining the behavior. I have never been interested someones else history as what they have done in past. Problem isn't that player has possibility learn persons past and understand it better. Problem is that it's forced to player. If player is interested why some person is behaving like they do, they should just have possibility ask it from that character. Not been forced to players face.

Also I'm not so imprest how characters history becomes part of gameplay content. There is different if player is willing to know little bit character past and forces to learn it as game content.

TV-serie like "Lost", where there is alot of flash backs to some persons past. Those situations are reasons why I can't watch the serie, because they annoy hell out of me. Same in Mass Effect 2 too with those loyalty missions. They are basicly about charcater past and allow player to know more about characters. How ever, they are also part of main gameplay and that's not so good. Allowign player to ask directly as talking from character about they past is good, but forcing players gameplay character past isn't so good at all.

Same happens in Kotor. So, I assume it's biowares way to explain they charcater behaviors and deeper they relation to players. How ever, I don't like it to be forced to players. It's fine if characters talk or comment about something related to main story or trying to give advice or help players what they do, but don't force characters personal issues for players. Example in Kotor "Missions" brother was totally unrelated to main story and was forced to player. Now other hand Carths issues was related to story, but it was just whining. I meaning the trust did not affect player character any other way than as forced whining. Carth was still loyal as hell. So, why even force it to player. If player is curios, then allow player ask and talk.

Now if you look Mass Effect 2, all Loyalty missions are personal issues and I even understand why they are done as main story related. How ever, they took way too much gameplay from main story. What I'm trying to say, don't push forced way as gameplay so much about characters history to players face, make it as real side talking, not as gameplay. Allow how ever, characters comment more story related stuff, as what they are doing at the moment in main story.

Modifié par Lumikki, 11 juillet 2010 - 07:52 .

[Zulu_DFA]

iakus wrote...
But in one of them you get to fight a thresher maw.  On foot!

I miss those good old days, when I could fight a thresher maw on foot every day...

BTW, isn't it a plot hole: if Wrex killed the thresher maw, where did the Krogans get a new one? Ah, in a space zoo, I guess. Not a plothole.

[KitsuneRommel]

tonnactus wrote...

Someone would expect that at least videomails are common in the feature.

Maybe. Maybe not. I rather read paper books than digital ones. I rather send a text message than leave a voice mail. My mobile phone has a video call feature but I've never used it.

BTW, isn't it a plot hole: if Wrex killed the thresher maw, where did
the Krogans get a new one? Ah, in a space zoo, I guess. Not a plothole.

Who said there was only one? In one planet in ME1 there were 2 Thresher Maws in the same small area and even Akuze incident had multiple Tresher Maws.

Thresher Maws don't really make sense anyway.

[tonnactus]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Someone would expect that at least videomails are common in the feature.

Maybe. Maybe not. I rather read paper books than digital ones. I rather send a text message than leave a voice mail. My mobile phone has a video call feature but I've never used it.

You not.But others.So someone would expect a mix of emails,videomails and audiomessages.Too  bad that didnt happen.
They had emily wong video news in Mass Effect 2.So someone would expect to get a videomessage from her.

[Iakus]

Lumikki wrote...

As this is about disapointment of Mass Effects 2, then I bring one of my disapointment here. I also say, this is my opinion.

I'm playing still Kotor and I have notice some similarity in one stuff and that's squad members background dialogs. One thing what I don't like roleplaying games or TV-series is how they try to explain why someone is behaving they are, by trying to force the history of that person as explaining the behavior. I have never been interested someones else history as what they have done in past. Problem isn't that player has possibility learn persons past and understand it better. Problem is that it's forced to player. If player is interested why some person is behaving like they do, they should just have possibility ask it from that character. Not been forced to players face.

Also I'm not so imprest how characters history becomes part of gameplay content. There is different if player is willing to know little bit character past and forces to learn it as game content.

TV-serie like "Lost", where there is alot of flash backs to some persons past. Those situations are reasons why I can't watch the serie, because they annoy hell out of me. Same in Mass Effect 2 too with those loyalty missions. They are basicly about charcater past and allow player to know more about characters. How ever, they are also part of main gameplay and that's not so good. Allowign player to ask directly as talking from character about they past is good, but forcing players gameplay character past isn't so good at all.

Same happens in Kotor. So, I assume it's biowares way to explain they charcater behaviors and deeper they relation to players. How ever, I don't like it to be forced to players. It's fine if characters talk or comment about something related to main story or trying to give advice or help players what they do, but don't force characters personal issues for players. Example in Kotor "Missions" brother was totally unrelated to main story and was forced to player. Now other hand Carths issues was related to story, but it was just whining. I meaning the trust did not affect player character any other way than as forced whining. Carth was still loyal as hell. So, why even force it to player. If player is curios, then allow player ask and talk.

Now if you look Mass Effect 2, all Loyalty missions are personal issues and I even understand why they are done as main story related. How ever, they took way too much gameplay from main story. What I'm trying to say, don't push forced way as gameplay so much about characters history to players face, make it as real side talking, not as gameplay. Allow how ever, characters comment more story related stuff, as what they are doing at the moment in main story.

Personally, I lke learning more about my companions' backgrounds,  But that's just me.  If I could get KOTOR to run on my computer for more than an hour without crashing, I would

That being said, I agree that the loyalty missions in ME 2, while they'd make for decent side missions, cannot carry the game by themselves.  They are way too disconnected from the main story ('Stop the Collectors") And have no real impact on the game besides 1) Unlock new power 2) Unlock new costume 3) Loyalty on/off switch activated for Suicide Mission. 

If somehow the outcome of the loyalty missions somehow affected the crew as a whole, or how  future missions unfolded, or provide information for the main stroyline, that would be something else entirely.  I had said before that it would have made more sense if the companions chosen for ME 2 had a more direct connection to the Collectors or the Reapers, it would have made for a tighter story.  It would have made more sense to recruit these characters and inquire about their past.  As it is, I feel like TIM's just pulling names out of a hat.

[Iakus]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

iakus wrote...
But in one of them you get to fight a thresher maw.  On foot!

I miss those good old days, when I could fight a thresher maw on foot every day...

BTW, isn't it a plot hole: if Wrex killed the thresher maw, where did the Krogans get a new one? Ah, in a space zoo, I guess. Not a plothole.

I miss the good old days where I could fight a thresher maw every day in a tank, but that's another story

Also i don't know or care if it's a plothole.  By the time I got to it, my brain had shut down as an act of self-preservation

[Mageofthedas2012]

Do space zoos on Tukhanca (Spelled wrong) exist?

[KalosCast]

tonnactus wrote...

Pocketgb wrote...


classic vidya game fan syndrome:
"What!? I didn't get a letter?
"What!? I only got a letter!?"

Someone would expect that at least videomails are common in the feature.

They're pretty easy to do in the present, hell, we could all have video-phones if they weren't a stupid and awkard mockery of real human interation that makes people uncomfortable to use.

[Pocketgb]

We've actually had 'vidmails' for the longest time now. They're rarely talked about because they're rarely used.