10273 réponses à ce sujet

[yoda23]

therhollywood wrote...

yoda23 wrote...

Andorfiend wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

I wont do a massive list like in other threads, but single out one or two things each posting.

-The Normandy. I hated the fact that several of your soon to be recruited companions had the only key to their rooms. It felt like a weak gimmick by being teased “you cant go in here until you recruit the person who has the key”. Just going by the locked room thing you would already know without a doubt that your missing two companions (the 2 downloadable ones) just by not having access to their rooms. Also on this note, not having access to the vehicle/cargo deck was rather lame as well. Hopefully it will get opened with the Hammerhead download.

This is something I noticed. Having sections of the ship you can't get into just because the NPC who is supposed to stand there hasn't been recuited yet is VERY much a JRPG console kind of thing. It's not needed, it's not like having Shepard walk into an empty room and ask EDI what's it's for would have somehow ruined the game. Not being able to walk into empty rooms however nearly gave me an apoplexy. I was about ready to order up some cutting charges so I could blow EDIs brains out the first time I played the game.

Seriously, I'm supposed to be the ship's Captain but I'm not allowed to look in the cargo bay? Or life support? Or gunnery? No way in hell would my Shepard put up with that crap, and that I had to rubs my nose in the fact that it's a video game and ruins immersion.

There were a LOT of things in the game that felt like the game was holding my hand because it didn't trust me not to be too stupid if it let me off the rails. Ad that feels like a cold wet slap in the face after ME 1.

I actually thought this aspect of the game fit with the whole Cerberus resurrection thing. Cerberus controls/owns the Normandy now, not the Alliance and especially not Shepherd. Shepherd is just a Cerberus tool now. Keeping things "locked" from Shepherd actually made the story "fit" a little better for me, IMO.

well if they were locked then they wouldent open them up for other crew members. thats like saying this no name guy that came on the ship is more trustworty than shepard. dose not make sens

The "recruits" were selected by the Illusive Man, they are not randoms. Grunt and Tali are the exceptions. For Tali Engineering is open already to Shepherd. In Grunt's case he goes into the cargo hold and as prior to him you have no cargo it makes sense that you would not need to enter that room. So, it does make sense if you think about it.

[yoda23]

Perfect example of Sloppy Game Presentation in ME2: I just finished the Estancio assignment and I did NOT personally retrieve any credits on that hunk of junk but on the End of Mission Summary it states I "Found" 3000 or so credits. I FOUND them? Really, where? I will put up a screen shot later...
P.S. having a "General Discussion" about a game without actually talking about what happens in the game is simply stupid, IMO.

Modifié par yoda23, 28 février 2010 - 03:04 .

[Jaysonie]

yoda23 wrote...

Perfect example of Sloppy Game Presentation in ME2: I just finished the Estancio assignment and I did NOT personally retrieve any credits on that hunk of junk but on the End of Mission Summary it states I "Found" 3000 or so credits. I FOUND them? Really, where?

Not a perfect example of sloppy game presentation. Its a tiny oversight.

Modifié par Jaysonie, 28 février 2010 - 03:05 .

[therhollywood]

yes and he hand picked you as well but that spliting hairs and the reason they did it is i think there already on the ship and they dont want you to go talking to them till you get them. and as for you finding credits with out picking any up when you pick up extra medi jel it gets turned into credits. thats prolly where you found them

[Dragonfable of Dain]

Lol if your not a fan of mass effect why are you in the Forums? Lol!

[yoda23]

Jaysonie wrote...

yoda23 wrote...

hex23 wrote...

yoda23 wrote...


WRONG! It's posts like this that got some of the good stuff in ME1 removed from the game. I just wish I had participated more in the ME1 forums before the XBOX twits got their hands on ME2. IMO the XBOX crowd has dumbed down ME enough already. Time to speak up for ME3 before the console crowd fully ruins the game for everyone else. Check my math but this WAS a dynamite Sci-Fi RPG. Not a FPS! But obviously it only counts if the RPG fans step up and start posting. i.e. Lack of Inventory, Fewer weapon choices, Boring planet scanning. I recall all the harrassment over the Mako and the elevator scenes and look where all that hot air got us, a linear FPS action game with fewer RPG elements and LESS exploration. Not this time, not for ME3! People need to speak up before the XBOX ers ruin that game too.

The game was made for Xbox first, then later ported to PC. It's an Xbox game.

Prove it!

The Pc version of mass effect was released 6 months after the 360 version.

Do you have a source for this claim or do you just throw out whatever enters your mind at random? I know Jade Empire and Kotor were also developed for the Crap Box but the claim that ME1 was developed exclusively for the Crap Box and then later, as an after thought, released for PC by a PC RPG Dev Shop really makes no sense at all...

[SithLordExarKun]

yoda23 wrote...

"EA had nothing to do with the design of ME2" Are you kidding? I really hope this was not a serious comment, at least for your sake, LOL.

No, i am serious. Unless you actually have concrete evidence to prove that EA influeneced every single design in ME2.

[yoda23]

Jaysonie wrote...

yoda23 wrote...

Perfect example of Sloppy Game Presentation in ME2: I just finished the Estancio assignment and I did NOT personally retrieve any credits on that hunk of junk but on the End of Mission Summary it states I "Found" 3000 or so credits. I FOUND them? Really, where?

Not a perfect example of sloppy game presentation. Its a tiny oversight.

A tiny oversight? Nah, there are other examples of this. Why do I suddenly FLOAT up in the air at random points in the game? Why are there elements in the game that have absolutely no bearing on the story? Heck, even EDI sounds bored when I send a probe at a planet. Oh I forgot, it makes the "controller" vibrate, how stimulating!

[Jaysonie]

yoda23 wrote...

Jaysonie wrote...

yoda23 wrote...

hex23 wrote...

yoda23 wrote...


WRONG! It's posts like this that got some of the good stuff in ME1 removed from the game. I just wish I had participated more in the ME1 forums before the XBOX twits got their hands on ME2. IMO the XBOX crowd has dumbed down ME enough already. Time to speak up for ME3 before the console crowd fully ruins the game for everyone else. Check my math but this WAS a dynamite Sci-Fi RPG. Not a FPS! But obviously it only counts if the RPG fans step up and start posting. i.e. Lack of Inventory, Fewer weapon choices, Boring planet scanning. I recall all the harrassment over the Mako and the elevator scenes and look where all that hot air got us, a linear FPS action game with fewer RPG elements and LESS exploration. Not this time, not for ME3! People need to speak up before the XBOX ers ruin that game too.

The game was made for Xbox first, then later ported to PC. It's an Xbox game.

Prove it!

The Pc version of mass effect was released 6 months after the 360 version.

Do you have a source for this claim or do you just throw out whatever enters your mind at random? I know Jade Empire and Kotor were also developed for the Crap Box but the claim that ME1 was developed exclusively for the Crap Box and then later, as an after thought, released for PC by a PC RPG Dev Shop really makes no sense at all...

http://www.gamespot....ws/6185882.html

http://www.bingegame...c-port-delayed/

The 360 version was released in november of 2007, the pc port came out may of 2008.

Modifié par Jaysonie, 28 février 2010 - 03:20 .

[Jaysonie]

yoda23 wrote...

Jaysonie wrote...

yoda23 wrote...

Perfect example of Sloppy Game Presentation in ME2: I just finished the Estancio assignment and I did NOT personally retrieve any credits on that hunk of junk but on the End of Mission Summary it states I "Found" 3000 or so credits. I FOUND them? Really, where?

Not a perfect example of sloppy game presentation. Its a tiny oversight.

A tiny oversight? Nah, there are other examples of this. Why do I suddenly FLOAT up in the air at random points in the game? Why are there elements in the game that have absolutely no bearing on the story? Heck, even EDI sounds bored when I send a probe at a planet. Oh I forgot, it makes the "controller" vibrate, how stimulating!

1. The floting up a wall is a bug, not sloppy game presentation. Besides, it happend to me twice during 2 playthroughs. Not a huge problem, and with the huge amount of autosaves you get its not a game ruiner.

2. The missions that have no bearing on the story are called side quests. Most rpgs now a days have them.

3. EDI is an ai, or in more simple terms a robot. She has no emotion.

[yoda23]

Jaysonie wrote...

yoda23 wrote...

Jaysonie wrote...

yoda23 wrote...

hex23 wrote...

yoda23 wrote...


WRONG! It's posts like this that got some of the good stuff in ME1 removed from the game. I just wish I had participated more in the ME1 forums before the XBOX twits got their hands on ME2. IMO the XBOX crowd has dumbed down ME enough already. Time to speak up for ME3 before the console crowd fully ruins the game for everyone else. Check my math but this WAS a dynamite Sci-Fi RPG. Not a FPS! But obviously it only counts if the RPG fans step up and start posting. i.e. Lack of Inventory, Fewer weapon choices, Boring planet scanning. I recall all the harrassment over the Mako and the elevator scenes and look where all that hot air got us, a linear FPS action game with fewer RPG elements and LESS exploration. Not this time, not for ME3! People need to speak up before the XBOX ers ruin that game too.

The game was made for Xbox first, then later ported to PC. It's an Xbox game.

Prove it!

The Pc version of mass effect was released 6 months after the 360 version.

Do you have a source for this claim or do you just throw out whatever enters your mind at random? I know Jade Empire and Kotor were also developed for the Crap Box but the claim that ME1 was developed exclusively for the Crap Box and then later, as an after thought, released for PC by a PC RPG Dev Shop really makes no sense at all...

http://www.gamespot....ws/6185882.html

http://www.bingegame...c-port-delayed/

The 360 version war released in november of 2007, the pc port came out may of 2008.

Thank You. I see now where you are coming from. I stand corrected but I am still not all that pleased with the Crap Box controller stuff that, IMO, limits ME2's effectiveness. Coming from PC RPG land it seems to me a shame that EA/Bioware would limit the architecture of such a great game to the XBOX controller. I think it loses a lot of the granualarity that makes a game great. Indeed all the first article you cite states was that the PC version was released after the crap box version, that does not necessarily mean that the game was developed exclusively for the XBOX which it was not. The other thing to remember is that the XBOX is a PC that simply lacks a keyboard and a mouse. My point is that I think it is the limitations of the "Controller" that is limiting ME2. I recall a lot of the flak on the ME1 forums around the MAKO was because the folks using the XBOX controller had a hard time controlling the MAKO, and, as a result the MAKO was removed from the game. On PC I never had a problem with the Mako because I had more control over it's movement, i.e. it was easier to drive with a keyboard and mouse.

[yoda23]

therhollywood wrote...

yes and he hand picked you as well but that spliting hairs and the reason they did it is i think there already on the ship and they dont want you to go talking to them till you get them. and as for you finding credits with out picking any up when you pick up extra medi jel it gets turned into credits. thats prolly where you found them

There is no medi-jel on the estancio. There are other examples of this. As I find them I will post them here. Perhaps they just need better QA.

[SithLordExarKun]

You really hate the 360 dont you?

[Clover Rider]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

You really hate the 360 dont you?

No he loves it like his mom :innocent:

[Samael77]

yoda23 wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

Seriously, don't start a thread with /discuss. Its wholesomely unproductive. This thread would be on so much better footing if you made a thesis, taking care to follow your own guidelines.

The same sex romance thread started with a FAQ and several points of contention.    

Though I suppose its better then the other guys flame ridden OP.    

WRONG! It's posts like this that got some of the good stuff in ME1 removed from the game. I just wish I had participated more in the ME1 forums before the XBOX twits got their hands on ME2. IMO the XBOX crowd has dumbed down ME enough already. Time to speak up for ME3 before the console crowd fully ruins the game for everyone else. Check my math but this WAS a dynamite Sci-Fi RPG. Not a FPS! But obviously it only counts if the RPG fans step up and start posting. i.e. Lack of Inventory, Fewer weapon choices, Boring planet scanning. I recall all the harrassment over the Mako and the elevator scenes and look where all that hot air got us, a linear FPS action game with fewer RPG elements and LESS exploration. Not this time, not for ME3! People need to speak up before the XBOX ers ruin that game too.

Umm, just for FYI, many of us that have the same complaints as you are "Xbox'ers", or *gasp* even play both XBox AND PC games.  Flying a lil close to the sun there aren't we, Icarus?

[Mister Jaw]

I've only two gripes that made me feel like someone was on vacation when it came to game design.

One is the lack of choice for romances.

The other is the planet scanning, which I have lovingly dubbed, "scooping the cat box."



The first has been covered exhaustively.

The second, while nothing but sheer tedium, is better than being forced to spend twenty minutes navigating what looks like New Guinea lava formations for a speck of resources that yields a handful of credits.



Having said that, I'm on my fourth play through in ME2 and loving it. I do miss being able to use the Mako. That thing could take a beating and then some.

[yoda23]

Jaysonie wrote...

yoda23 wrote...

Jaysonie wrote...

yoda23 wrote...

Perfect example of Sloppy Game Presentation in ME2: I just finished the Estancio assignment and I did NOT personally retrieve any credits on that hunk of junk but on the End of Mission Summary it states I "Found" 3000 or so credits. I FOUND them? Really, where?

Not a perfect example of sloppy game presentation. Its a tiny oversight.

A tiny oversight? Nah, there are other examples of this. Why do I suddenly FLOAT up in the air at random points in the game? Why are there elements in the game that have absolutely no bearing on the story? Heck, even EDI sounds bored when I send a probe at a planet. Oh I forgot, it makes the "controller" vibrate, how stimulating!

1. The floting up a wall is a bug, not sloppy game presentation. Besides, it happend to me twice during 2 playthroughs. Not a huge problem, and with the huge amount of autosaves you get its not a game ruiner.

2. The missions that have no bearing on the story are called side quests. Most rpgs now a days have them.

3. EDI is an ai, or in more simple terms a robot. She has no emotion.

1. When are Bugs not sloppy game presentation?
2. I didn't say missions.
3. Precisely, So why does she say "probe launched" and/or "probe away" at different times? I still think EDI sounds bored sometimes during the scanning process... or perhaps it was the voice actor that got bored after several hours of scanning.... lol. To my original point though, on the old ME1 forums it was typically a common theme that the elevators and the presidium were "boring". I was directing my criticism at those folks. If folks were bored with the Presidium and the elevators in ME1, why now are most folks not bored with the scanning thing? I suppose I am looking for rationality where there ought not be any. C-Ya!

[yoda23]

Mister Jaw wrote...

I've only two gripes that made me feel like someone was on vacation when it came to game design.
One is the lack of choice for romances.
The other is the planet scanning, which I have lovingly dubbed, "scooping the cat box."

The first has been covered exhaustively.
The second, while nothing but sheer tedium, is better than being forced to spend twenty minutes navigating what looks like New Guinea lava formations for a speck of resources that yields a handful of credits.

Having said that, I'm on my fourth play through in ME2 and loving it. I do miss being able to use the Mako. That thing could take a beating and then some.

+1 "scooping the cat box." YES!

[yoda23]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

You really hate the 360 dont you?

No I don't hate the 360, just a little perturbed by the changes in ME2. I don't think anyone can deny that "scooping the cat box" (ahem planet scanning) is nothing but a cheap gimick aimed at the 360 users. If PC gaming is going down, it is not going down without a good fight and a lot of pot stirring!!!

[Sid66]

Me 2 is a great game far better than me1



So you cant go into every room on the normandy with out recruting that charcter so what Shepard going to do i the tech lab without mordian to build the upgrades keep it clean.



Me2 has a better story and is more chacter driven than the frist.



But you can not make evryone happy so i loved me2 and cant wait for the final act.

[Darth Drago]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

The fact is, the first Mass Effect had several problems, which is to be expected since it was Bioware's first attempt at a game of that type. The criticism back then was, as I recall, mostly rooted in the following categories:

1.) The combat was boring and required very little thinking to complete
2.) The squaddie NPCs mostly lacked personality and depth compared to last Bioware games (HUGE step down from Jade Empire and Baldur's Gate 2)
3.) The Mako was terrible
4.) The inventory was both terribly implimented and ruined the flow of the game
5.) Gaining levels did not feel important

-Wish I was on the forum for that back then. My veiws on those five for both games:

1. Combat did need some serious help. No Argument there. However now its not hugely improved, just refined to typical 1st/3rd person standards. I hope they improve it so the enemies you fight do more than the basics they are programmed to do in ME3. In other words have them free thinking more like you squad mates in a fight.

2. I wouldn’t agree with that (its been a long time since I played Jade Empire). If you took the time to get to know them through dialog, random dialogs from locations and the “dreaded” elevator you did get a lot of background info on them that showed in their personalities. In ME2 its expanded on by having the loyalty mission each has.

3. The Mako wasn’t terrible (in my opinion) it was a very key element to add depth to the game. Sure landing on planets where it seems most people took the direct route instead of looking at the map to get to where they were going and running into some nasty mountains it would get old. I personally didn’t have that much problem on most planets but yes there were some bad mountain climbing spots on others. Now we get a direct drop to the front door with the shuttle. Hopefully the Hammerhead will bring back some of that Mako charm.

4. The inventory in ME1 I wouldn’t consider bad nor did it ruin the flow of the game. The big issue was that the game’s economy was so messed up that by the time you got half way through the game you had to much credits with a lot to sell. Some of the items especially the armor and weapon upgrades should have been leveled better. No getting a armor piercing round for each level you are. It got old pretty quick when you just equipped a version 2 at the beginning of a level and because you leveled up you find a version 3 halfway through it. If they gave you a new version every 5 levels it wouldn’t have been so bad. Keep in mind inventory by loot is a popular aspect of role playing games. Now In ME2 they didn’t fix anything they just dropped it to put in this research upgrade system. To me that didn’t make much sense on a few levels which I’ll go into another time.

5. Leveling I could go both ways for this. In ME1 you did seem to level pretty quickly until you got to about level 45 then it slowed a bit. If you add in the skills/powers and point distribution then that’s what made it good. I did like having unique skill/power builds for everyone. Just because Ashley can use all weapons didn’t mean I would train her in all of them in every game. Same thing with a biotic do I really need another person with a lot of points in throw if I already have it? Now in ME2 the leveling is slowed down a lot which is a good step actually however its been capped out at level 30 for some reason. Hopefully again with the Hammerhead they will raise the level cap to 40. Unfortunately the skills/powers are really limiting with questionable uses like the ammo types for certain classes. I’m not a fan of having to unlock 2 powers to get to unlock one.

[ImperialOperative]

The only things that can be decided upon objectively are technical aspects and polish/optimization levels. ME2 knocks that out of the park, with very few hitches.



Everything else: Story direction, plot, lore adjustments, design choices, mechanics, feel, etc.



That is all based on taste, and a consensus will never be reached (one mans garbage is another mans treasure). Voicing your opinions is fine, but if you are looking to debate upon opinions then tempers are bound to flare especially when you do so on a GD board.

[Lord Atlia]

As people stated on page one that the size and or presence of flaws is subjective. What I've found interesting about ME2 is that beyond scanning there is no real flaws on which there is a considerable consensus, some people even like the scanning. For example let's examine one "flaw" that has drawn considerable debate on the forums and that is loot and character customization, in my opinion on things such as weapons and armors that everything is designed to be balanced with each gun being unique. The problem with designing more non heavy weapons is that eventually they would all start to seem the same, it is easier to design 3 assault rifles that have unique properties than it is to design 12. For armor is gets even more complex because you need to balance each piece while making sure things don't stack too well because if things start to stack than you can min/max your abilities and min/maxing is sometimes criticized in traditional table top games because it breaks the game. That is one thing I loved about ME2 on higher difficulties, hardcore/insanity, is that the game scales well so that even if you find all the upgrades and maximize your classes capabilities difficulty for the most part remains constant after about the first 10 levels. This is why I believe ME2 is not dumbed down because it is so hard to break, most RPGs you can somehow beat the game with a spreadsheet and knowledge of where loot pieces are distributed combined with maximizing stats and skills. Take Demon's Soul's, very hard if you go into the game blind but after lurking a few forums, reading some guides, and getting the basic mob pulls and countering down it be fairly easy when combined with traditional min/maxing.



In short: People who find the most flaws are probably those who wanted more of an RPG (Traditional mechanics mind you, as any game with a role playing element is an RPG) than a shooter.

[flamingdts]

There is no feeling of progression in the game anymore.

The game just isn't an RPG. They took way too many RPG elements from it to be considered RPG. Right now, ME2 is a third person shooter where you can upgrade your stats once in a while, and you get that in many action games nowadays that do not call itself an RPG.

The thing is, I don't mind the new combat system, but there are so many flaws in it. The global cooldown is ridiculous and it really limits your gameplay. In insanity, many of your skills don't work (especially for biotics), turning this game into a simple third person shooter with dialogues. Not to mention, this game's third person shooter element is not nearly as good as the other third person shooter games. Also, there are too little skills, yet too many restrictions. Why is it necessary for a vanguard to get two points into Shockwave before he/she is allowed to use pull? This stupidly renders some skills completely useless, and limits the whole "build" of the classes to one or two effective one (especially due to the fact that there are fewer skills in ME2).  

Bioware needs a lot of things to touch up on. I am not happy with them so far. The DLC BS, where DLCed items are more common than items you find in game. The whole planet scanning thing, where PC users literally have to fling the whole mouse to the side just to get a little more spin on the planet. I can't believe the PC patch only fixed minor technical issues but did not increase the sensitivity of the planet scanner thing. 

There are flaws in this game, and these flaws take away important aspects of RPGs out of the game. People need to accept that ME2 is not really an RPG anymore. Of course this doesn't make the game any worse, but it changes the whole genre of the game. 

Now if people are willing to appreciate ME2 as a shooter, that's fine. But if people claim it is a significant improvement to ME1 as an RPG, then they're wrong. If ME3 is still this linear, then I don't know if I will buy it. I enjoy the shooter mechanics of ME2, but too much RPG elements have been taken out for it to be considered a "sequel" to ME1. It's more like a different game using the same universe. 

Modifié par flamingdts, 28 février 2010 - 04:22 .

[Andorfiend]

My 2¢ on PC vs X-box.

I don't care.

More precisely the only real constraint the x-box places on a game are the control input limitations. Now, I do find it irritating that they did not allow for the expanded input options available to a PC when polishing the PC version. In particular I find it very aggravating that the hotkeys for pulling up the squad and codex are gone. It's stands out because we had exactly those functions available in ME 1. Removing functionality is never progress.

However I can live with that and worse for a good game.

What I don't like about ME 2 has more to do with the fact that it feels like a console game. Not that it feels like a port mind you. But the railroading, the hand-holding, the feeling that the game thinks you're kind of an idiot but will play with you just to be nice... that I do not like. And I have played console games that don't feel that way, and PC games that are worse. It's not really a PC vs Console thing but a design philosophy which I assosciate as common to console games and blessedly rarer in PC games.

The closest parallel I can come up with is the Star Wars movies. The first movie, Episode 4 was aimed squarely at 14 year olds. It was drama and adventure and excitment with some mystical mumbo-jumbo to spice things up. And in aiming at 14 year olds the spread manages to hit almost everybody. Nobody is too old to like episode 4 and few are too young. The first movie of the new trilogy, episode 1 was aimed squarely at 12 year olds. It had cute girls and awkward adolesence and flashy lights and zoomy noises and a clown flouncing his way through what could have been dramatic scenes. And it was aimed too low and lost most of the adult audience that episode 4 still works for to this day.

I feel ME 1 was original trilogy, and ME 2 was the prequel trilogy (okay calling it the Phantom Menace was harsh. )

Modifié par Andorfiend, 28 février 2010 - 04:34 .