10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

bjdbwea wrote...

This game has a not very mature approach in regards to women at times. That Miranda scene, or the way they reduced Kelly to little more than a piece of decoration in the end. Maybe even the way female Shepard talks to Jacob. It feels like it was written for a young male audience. And while that is in fact certainly the case for most games, previous BioWare games never felt the need to be so blatant.

ME 2 might have been "M for Mature"   but ME 1 was far more "mature" a game.  There were patches of ME 2 I actually felt embaressed to be playing.

[catabuca]

Copy&pasting from another thread (the Horde Mode thread) to quell worries by those fearing the introduction of a multi-player mode (if they haven't already seen this):

Chris Priestly wrote...

While you make a well thought out post, Mass Effect is a single player game. Hard to be a horde of only 1 person.

[Gibb_Garrus]

IMO, ME 2 was a great game. The combat is so much better, just a ridiculous amount better than me 1. The character depth was also better, you got closer to the characters than you did in me 1. The story however was not as good as the first, but it was still great.

Now my biggest problem, and pretty much only problem with me 2 was SHEPARD. He seemed so robotic throughout the game! He didnt have as much emotion or drive as he did in the first, he just seems distant. Especially with how BW handled him with cerberus. They performed ridiculously unethical tests in me 1. They were the ones who conducted tests on people with the thorian. They KILLED admiral Kahoku and his men. And if you were a sole survivor like me, they KILLED your entire squad. Something that affected shepard a lot. Shepard just conveniantly FORGETS that and works for cerberus. I understand that new players will come in halfway through the trilogy (And in my opinion are retarded, why would you play number 2 without playing number 1?) who dont really know cerberus and will therefore trust them straight away, but BW could've at least tailored the conversation with the illusive man to people who were sole survivors and saw what they did in me 1.

I also think they handled the character reunions poorly, but the above is my biggest beef with the game.

Modifié par Gibb_Garrus, 12 août 2010 - 10:18 .

[joriandrake]

iakus wrote...
ME 2 might have been "M for Mature"   but ME 1 was far more "mature" a game.

this

[tonnactus]

Gibb_Garrus wrote...

Now my biggest problem, and pretty much only problem with me 2 was SHEPARD. He seemed so robotic throughout the game! He didnt have as much emotion or drive as he did in the first, he just seems distant.

And he wasnt even relevant for the plot unlike in the first game where he got his visions.
Hard to call a story good when the "protagonist" didnt matter. "But he is a natural leader,a bloody icon".Except the fact
that most people,even humans,dont know who he is and how he look.(otherwise no one would trie to arrest him
for example)

Modifié par tonnactus, 12 août 2010 - 11:38 .

[joriandrake]

tonnactus wrote...

Gibb_Garrus wrote...

Now my biggest problem, and pretty much only problem with me 2 was SHEPARD. He seemed so robotic throughout the game! He didnt have as much emotion or drive as he did in the first, he just seems distant.

And he wasnt even relevant for the plot unlike in the first game where he got his visions.
Hard to call a story good when the "protagonist" didnt matter. "But he is a natural leader,a bloody icon".Except the fact
that most people,even humans,dont know who he is and how he look.(otherwise no one would trie to arrest him
for example)

this could actually be worked on, we should in ME3 bump into an impersonator or something, one who travels together with a krogan, an asari, and a quarian

[Mister Mida]

joriandrake wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Gibb_Garrus wrote...

Now my biggest problem, and pretty much only problem with me 2 was SHEPARD. He seemed so robotic throughout the game! He didnt have as much emotion or drive as he did in the first, he just seems distant.

And he wasnt even relevant for the plot unlike in the first game where he got his visions.
Hard to call a story good when the "protagonist" didnt matter. "But he is a natural leader,a bloody icon".Except the fact
that most people,even humans,dont know who he is and how he look.(otherwise no one would trie to arrest him
for example)

this could actually be worked on, we should in ME3 bump into an impersonator or something, one who travels together with a krogan, an asari, and a quarian

And the name of the impersonater is Conrad Verner

[joriandrake]

Mister Mida wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Gibb_Garrus wrote...

Now my biggest problem, and pretty much only problem with me 2 was SHEPARD. He seemed so robotic throughout the game! He didnt have as much emotion or drive as he did in the first, he just seems distant.

And he wasnt even relevant for the plot unlike in the first game where he got his visions.
Hard to call a story good when the "protagonist" didnt matter. "But he is a natural leader,a bloody icon".Except the fact
that most people,even humans,dont know who he is and how he look.(otherwise no one would trie to arrest him
for example)

this could actually be worked on, we should in ME3 bump into an impersonator or something, one who travels together with a krogan, an asari, and a quarian

And the name of the impersonater is Conrad Verner

... what, they would ignore the choice of the player a second time? <_<
 I already persuated him in both games to go home, if they pull that once more I start a protest


no, I meant the people would look a similar to the real Shepard/Tali/Wrex/Liara, they could be reskinned, and the shepard person could have different eye/hair/skin color

[Sparda Stonerule]

iakus wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

This game has a not very mature approach in regards to women at times. That Miranda scene, or the way they reduced Kelly to little more than a piece of decoration in the end. Maybe even the way female Shepard talks to Jacob. It feels like it was written for a young male audience. And while that is in fact certainly the case for most games, previous BioWare games never felt the need to be so blatant.

ME 2 might have been "M for Mature"   but ME 1 was far more "mature" a game.  There were patches of ME 2 I actually felt embaressed to be playing.

It bugs me that anyone can feel this way. I get the feeling you are saying this is because you are more disappointed with the streamlining of RPG elements then actual characterization. It really bugs me because people in real life act like that. Some people have actual emotions and actual personalities.

I feel like what you want is for everyone to just stand there and be a dispenser for information with no emotion behind it. Heaven forbid someone hit on someone else during a dangerous time. It's not like that's never happened. I honestly felt it was refreshing to see characters with more than one memorable trait. After all ME 1 was, Ashley: Racist, Garrus: Rebel, Kaiden: Biotic, Liara: Archeologist, Tali: Mechanic, and Wrex: Agitated Krogan. 

Another thing that bugs me is your feeling about Shepard. The visions he had weren't the reason he was able to track down Saren. They were why he was after Saren. That's like saying you want the visions to be present throughout the entire series. If the visions had any more data on how to stop the Reapers then the Protheans would have done it themselves. Shepard is a charismatic leader who can make people follow him to their death. There aren't exactly many people like that. So what's wrong with that?

What I sense from your post is elitism of the highest order. I personally felt that ME 2 was much less cliched than ME 1. I mean in ME 1 it was just. Well there's the bad guy we somehow bumped into during a training mission. Oh man look at that, the beacon the bad guy use but left behind and intact for some reason. Well lets just take this to the government to take this guy down. Oh man how crazy, there are 3 specific people related to finding this guy who all want to join me. Now we have our evidence and now I get to join this super elite force. So where should we go? Oh these 3 planets that all have one piece of the puzzle to finding the bad guy, and what's this? Two of these planets has a massive moral choice to make. Oh so now the Council just finds Saren's location. Well let's go on this extremely dangerous mission and... oh darn someone on my team has to die, bummer. Oh man that vision has shown me where we need to go next, let's go there. 

We all know the ending which was definitely the best part. But if you are actually feel embarrassed by some female characters talking about sexuality then I don't really know what to say. I certainly wasn't all that interested in those scenes but I'm used to hearing people talk about it.

If you don't think it's a mature game at least admit your entire feelings about it. Try not to be so general when you say who you feel it was obviously marketed for. Because if that's the case then I wouldn't have enjoyed it even though I enjoyed it very much.

[catabuca]

Sparda - it's pretty pointless getting upset because someone has a different opinion to you. Sure, express why your opinion differs from theirs, but repeatedly saying "It bugs me that anyone can feel this way" (or variations thereof) is a bit daft.

Just because you don't agree with that person's opinion, or because they don't agree with yours, doesn't mean they aren't telling the truth for the reasons they hold that opinion, nor does it mean their opinion isn't valid.

We all have lots of different feelings about this game, about all sorts of things, and when it comes to how we feel we are all right. We can have a civilised debate about the reasons we come to certain opinions, but we can't second guess the veracity of people's feelings.

[Sparda Stonerule]

catabuca wrote...

Sparda - it's pretty pointless getting upset because someone has a different opinion to you. Sure, express why your opinion differs from theirs, but repeatedly saying "It bugs me that anyone can feel this way" (or variations thereof) is a bit daft.
Just because you don't agree with that person's opinion, or because they don't agree with yours, doesn't mean they aren't telling the truth for the reasons they hold that opinion, nor does it mean their opinion isn't valid.
We all have lots of different feelings about this game, about all sorts of things, and when it comes to how we feel we are all right. We can have a civilised debate about the reasons we come to certain opinions, but we can't second guess the veracity of people's feelings.

Because a civilized debate clearly entails calling the game not mature. It clearly means saying that it's over sexualized.

You can look at my older posts I am all in favor of being fair and even handed. But no one really seems interested in that. If you notice I never actually made fun of them. All I said is I don't even know what to say which just means I'm surprised.

Besides what I provided was an analysis of the plot to show that either game can be given a negative light and seem valid. Neither game is more mature than the other. I just believe their complaints are rooted in something else and they are pointing at anything else just so they can complain about the game.

[Kai Hohiro]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

What I sense from your post is elitism of the highest order. I personally felt that ME 2 was much less cliched than ME 1. I mean in ME 1 it was just. Well there's the bad guy we somehow bumped into during a training mission. Oh man look at that, the beacon the bad guy use but left behind and intact for some reason. Well lets just take this to the government to take this guy down. Oh man how crazy, there are 3 specific people related to finding this guy who all want to join me. Now we have our evidence and now I get to join this super elite force. So where should we go? Oh these 3 planets that all have one piece of the puzzle to finding the bad guy, and what's this? Two of these planets has a massive moral choice to make. Oh so now the Council just finds Saren's location. Well let's go on this extremely dangerous mission and... oh darn someone on my team has to die, bummer. Oh man that vision has shown me where we need to go next, let's go there. 

Yeah this is very true. ME1 felt more like a string of Deus Ex Machina events. 

But overall I think both ME1 and ME2 had interesting storylines. People just seem upset because ME2 has a different kind of plot than ME1, since it borrows more from Dirty Dozen and Oceans Eleven, rather than the archetypical sci-fi/fantasy stories that ME1 borrowed from.
But I'm actually happy that Bioware for once tried a different kind of plot than from what they usually do, I enjoy the variety and love ME2 for it.
A different kind of plot doesn't mean it's inferior. If anything at all, ME2s writing is much improved and less cliched than that of ME1.

Modifié par Kai Hohiro, 12 août 2010 - 12:53 .

[Sparda Stonerule]

Kai Hohiro wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

What I sense from your post is elitism of the highest order. I personally felt that ME 2 was much less cliched than ME 1. I mean in ME 1 it was just. Well there's the bad guy we somehow bumped into during a training mission. Oh man look at that, the beacon the bad guy use but left behind and intact for some reason. Well lets just take this to the government to take this guy down. Oh man how crazy, there are 3 specific people related to finding this guy who all want to join me. Now we have our evidence and now I get to join this super elite force. So where should we go? Oh these 3 planets that all have one piece of the puzzle to finding the bad guy, and what's this? Two of these planets has a massive moral choice to make. Oh so now the Council just finds Saren's location. Well let's go on this extremely dangerous mission and... oh darn someone on my team has to die, bummer. Oh man that vision has shown me where we need to go next, let's go there. 

Yeah this is very true. ME1 felt more like a string of Deus Ex Machina events. 

But overall I think both ME1 and ME2 had interesting storylines. People just seem upset because ME2 has a different kind of plot than ME1, since it borrows more from Dirty Dozen and Oceans Eleven, rather than the archetypical sci-fi/fantasy stories that ME1 borrowed from.
But I'm actually happy that Bioware for once tried a different kind of plot than from what they usually do, I enjoy the variety and love ME2 for it.

Yeah, and even what I said isn't how I feel. It was a lot more subtle than what I was stating. It's just a bit silly to call either plot not mature. They do both have moral choices and can sometimes make you think about what's going on. You need to think if you want to get into either plot, and some people don't like the plot of ME 1 and some don't like ME 2's plot. I am just thankful they didn't do the same plot again. Because while this is a trilogy, I have never read a trilogy that has the same plot pacing in every book. It's always the main villain having different degrees of involvement in every book. I mean heck Sauron didn't even have that big a role in any particular book of Lord of the Rings, but he was there and looming. Just off in the distance with no one really knowing what his exact plans were.

[catabuca]

My problem is that some people are reading criticisms, and disregarding some of the points people are making by saying "you're clearly just angry that x, y, or z happened".

If I say I prefer ME1's plot, and give some reasons, it's not very helpful to tell me that actually my reasons for not liking it must be something completely different, because otherwise I wouldn't feel that way. It is possible for people to not like something you do, or to like something you don't like, and for them to have valid reasons for that. Just because you don't agree with those reasons doesn't make them not exist.

[Darth Drago]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

iakus wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

This game has a not very mature approach in regards to women at times. That Miranda scene, or the way they reduced Kelly to little more than a piece of decoration in the end. Maybe even the way female Shepard talks to Jacob. It feels like it was written for a young male audience. And while that is in fact certainly the case for most games, previous BioWare games never felt the need to be so blatant.

ME 2 might have been "M for Mature" but ME 1 was far more "mature" a game. There were patches of ME 2 I actually felt embaressed to be playing.

What I sense from your post is elitism of the highest order.
But if you are actually feel embarrassed by some female characters talking about sexuality then I don't really know what to say. I certainly wasn't all that interested in those scenes but I'm used to hearing people talk about it.

Just going to reply on these points in your reply. Interesting things you brought up in the rest of your reply above. Like about the beacon.

-First off I wouldn’t sling that elitism word around at those who have a different opinion than yours. It gets old real fast by those of us who have had it directed at. Those who have been labeled an elitist are more vocal in their opinions about the direction, changes, lack of quality, or whatever else they see with Mass Effect or Dragon Age and their downloads. Directions that are very questionable at the very least, at least to us. Do they have a higher standard for what they expect from a company that’s been around as long as BioWare? You better believe it we do. With your reply above you your self could be fall in that category of elitism with your counter arguments. Just something to think on, nothing more.

Reread their original posts you quoted.

-Miranda is nothing but eye candy in the game when the camera jumps to that low angle to focus on her ass. Was that one of those more cinematic dialog approaches BioWare wanted to do or is it just a gratuitous shot of her ass? Where you on these forums shortly after the game came out to see an entire topic devoted to Miranda’s ass? With that result alone the maturity of the game dropped like a rock to the point of asking who the target audience was really aimed for with regards to that scene.

-Kelly becomes your personal dancer if you romance her this can go both ways on the argument but there are those that felt it was a bit tacky. Is this just an eye candy moment or lack of maturity in the game? It depends on what you consider mature.

-Play as a female Shepard (if you haven’t) and try to talk to Jacob, to just get to know him more and what happens? Her voice tone jumps right into heavy flirt mode. She cant see him as anything than a “hot bod to hop on” when she is talking to him that way. It was also very out of place when you consider she is just talking to him for one of the first times on the ship. Is that mature behavior or even appropriate behavior for just talking? Some would consider that sexual harassment.

-Where did anyone say that they “actually feel embarrassed by some female characters talking about sexuality”? Personally from what I remember (its been a few months sine I last played) only Tali really talks about sex/sexuality. Kelly mentions that Jack uses sex and that you need to be careful when dealing with Jack. Mordin discusses some interesting things especially when you are involved with an alien. But that’s about it and again you need to first be in a romance with them to hear them say anything.

[Sparda Stonerule]

Fine perhaps I over reacted and extracted some things that may not have been there. I just know iakus and bjdbwea. They tend to post a lot about the streamlining the game and dismissing it as less of a thinking game. I guess I just got to a minor boiling point. I realize they don't have to like the game but I get tired of people telling me the games that I like aren't for "smart and mature people".

As for Miranda, the first time I played the game I barely noticed her ass shots. I notice them a lot more now. Heck I even began noticing the camera angle on Jack usually shows her chest from a side angle. But when I was first playing I was trying to pay attention to the conversation and not how the character was positioned on screen. I think the real immaturity comes in when someone sees an ass and just jumps to conclusions about characters. I really liked Miranda's story and she was a lot different then I pegged her at the beginning of the game.

I have seen female Shepard's lines with Jacob, and to be honest I never really liked playing as females when I can choose to play as a male. It feels like a disconnect because it makes me pick options I would never say. But that is a good point. She does really lay on the flirt with him.

I admit no one actually said they were embarrassed about that specifically. However, Iakus did in fact say he felt embarrassed to be playing patches of ME 2, and I did in fact assume he meant the parts where sexuality was a bit more overt.

So I apologize if I went overboard but when it comes to the same people saying the same things over and over I don't want to repeat what I said to them before. Because I'm sure most of us know that many arguments are the same argument over and over and over.

The Elitism merely comes into play when people begin saying what direction a series needs to go in. They talk as if they know how to make the game better. instead of admitting that some people like the game and that it is a matter of opinion they dismiss it as inferior. Even when many many people love the game they still say that those people are wrong and that they know the game is inferior despite people disagreeing. That is Elitism. I may be a bit Elitist when it comes to me suggesting that they don't know best. If that is the case then yes I suppose I am an Elitist. It just gets my goat when people feel the need to say how inferior a game is despite so many people liking it.

Modifié par Sparda Stonerule, 12 août 2010 - 02:27 .

[catabuca]

I love it when we all get along

[Sparda Stonerule]

catabuca wrote...

I love it when we all get along

For the sake of sanity I have to admit when someone fairly calls me out on being unfair. I don't want to be unfair but I am biased so it does happen. I like getting along too. I would prefer conversations that didn't turn into arguments as almost every Bioware thread does.

[bjdbwea]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

The Elitism merely comes into play when people begin saying what direction a series needs to go in. They talk as if they know how to make the game better. instead of admitting that some people like the game and that it is a matter of opinion they dismiss it as inferior. Even when many many people love the game they still say that those people are wrong and that they know the game is inferior despite people disagreeing. That is Elitism. I may be a bit Elitist when it comes to me suggesting that they don't know best. If that is the case then yes I suppose I am an Elitist. It just gets my goat when people feel the need to say how inferior a game is despite so many people liking it.

Sounds like you're describing what happened after ME 1. Guess what, there were a lot of people who enjoyed the game, very much so. But it didn't stop the shooter fans and casual gamers from going on endlessly about the supposedly bad combat, the inventory and whatever else. So, the game was dumbed down a lot. I for one doubt that the complaints were ever the reason, but whatever. Is it a surprise that people who liked the original vision of the Mass Effect series are now the ones complaining?

Modifié par bjdbwea, 12 août 2010 - 02:46 .

[catabuca]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

catabuca wrote...

I love it when we all get along

For the sake of sanity I have to admit when someone fairly calls me out on being unfair. I don't want to be unfair but I am biased so it does happen. I like getting along too. I would prefer conversations that didn't turn into arguments as almost every Bioware thread does.

Totally agree. There are periodic moments of amicable conversation here and there, but I suppose the nature of the internet (anonymous), and the fact we all have strong feelings about the games we love (or love to hate), means we'll often come to (virtual) blows.

As long as we can kiss and make up afterwards I guess it's not too bad

[brfritos]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

catabuca wrote...

Sparda - it's pretty pointless getting upset because someone has a different opinion to you. Sure, express why your opinion differs from theirs, but repeatedly saying "It bugs me that anyone can feel this way" (or variations thereof) is a bit daft.
Just because you don't agree with that person's opinion, or because they don't agree with yours, doesn't mean they aren't telling the truth for the reasons they hold that opinion, nor does it mean their opinion isn't valid.
We all have lots of different feelings about this game, about all sorts of things, and when it comes to how we feel we are all right. We can have a civilised debate about the reasons we come to certain opinions, but we can't second guess the veracity of people's feelings.

Because a civilized debate clearly entails calling the game not mature. It clearly means saying that it's over sexualized.

You can look at my older posts I am all in favor of being fair and even handed. But no one really seems interested in that. If you notice I never actually made fun of them. All I said is I don't even know what to say which just means I'm surprised.

Besides what I provided was an analysis of the plot to show that either game can be given a negative light and seem valid. Neither game is more mature than the other. I just believe their complaints are rooted in something else and they are pointing at anything else just so they can complain about the game.

I agree with catabuca on this, we all have different views about the game.
Just because some arguments have a point, doesn't mean they are "the only true".
Take combat for example.

I'm astonishing with the amount of debate about combat and when I finally played the game I thinked to myself: "what they are talking about, I don't see all that difference from ME1 to ME2".
Sure the guns and powers act different from the first game and now you don't have damage protection, only shields, but it's not THAT different.
Maybe I feel this because I'm on a PC and I've never became used with the standard "w-a-s-d" key scheme of the games, so I remap my keyboard and use the alpha-numeric.
Also, I use the power wheel a lot, others prefer more no-stopping combat, but it gives the player a tactical view of the combat before you engage on it.

But the combat elements of the two games are basically the same.
Well, the people all bang about the Vanguards and Soldiers "immunity" barriers, but try using this and rushing a Colossus or Armature (two enemies much more common in the first game) and you will see the outcome.

And now we enter in the "mature" and "sex" content.
Ah, that topic!

It's funny that I saw a lot of comments criticizing ME2 in this aspects, but the arguments used on this thread is the same that were used to criticize ME1!
One of the derogatory terms used against ME1 was calling it "Mass Erect", since the first game also have sexualized content.
Well, sex IS part of our lives, you can't lock it in a closet and let it out from time to time, it's not the way it works.
What changed from the first game to the second is that sex was treated in a more natural way, IMHO.
Now is much more conservative in nature and because of this, a big deal.

I still think that strippers should be naked, but that's me.
Every club I entered in my life don't have strippers like Cora's Den, covering their breasts.
About the subject is like the old debate, being naked in a museum is art, but in the street or in a game is crime?
So it's not the nature of the things that indicates if it's offensive, but the location where they happened?

ME2 IS mature, the topics covered on the game are not easilly encoutered, but the writing changed and for the worst.
Some responses Shepard's give, paragon or renegade, are simply stupid.
Not childish or juvenile, but stupid.
Like the Paragon one in Purgatory before entering the cell or the Renegade on Illium with that weapons merchant.

I cryed the first time I saw them on the screen.

[Sparda Stonerule]

bjdbwea wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

The Elitism merely comes into play when people begin saying what direction a series needs to go in. They talk as if they know how to make the game better. instead of admitting that some people like the game and that it is a matter of opinion they dismiss it as inferior. Even when many many people love the game they still say that those people are wrong and that they know the game is inferior despite people disagreeing. That is Elitism. I may be a bit Elitist when it comes to me suggesting that they don't know best. If that is the case then yes I suppose I am an Elitist. It just gets my goat when people feel the need to say how inferior a game is despite so many people liking it.

Sounds like you're describing what happened after ME 1. Guess what, there were a lot of people who enjoyed the game, very much so. But it didn't stop the shooter fans and casual gamers from going on endlessly about the supposedly bad combat, the inventory and whatever else. So, the game was dumbed down a lot. I for one doubt that the complaints were ever the reason, but whatever. Is it a surprise that people who liked the original vision of the Mass Effect series are now the ones complaining?

Are you suggesting that it was mostly casual gamers and shooter fans that bought ME 1? Because from what I remember the complaints were pretty loud. I never said you couldn't complain you just seem to be blind to the fact that it's a matter of opinion. There you are again saying it was dumbed down. That's just how you feel not what is an actual fact.

I just happen to know you make the same arguments over and over and you are free to do so. But don't be surprised if people get tired of you harping on the same things over and over, especially since a lot of people like the changes.

I loved ME 1 and I didn't think it had to change. I'm glad it did though. I feel like it functions a lot better and I do like the dialog a lot better in ME 2. I only miss Saren and that's about it. But that's my opinion and that doesn't mean ME 2 is better nor does it mean it's worse. It's made for entertainment. I was entertained and I am sorry that you weren't.

[Kai Hohiro]

bjdbwea wrote...
Sounds like you're describing what happened after ME 1. Guess what, there were a lot of people who enjoyed the game, very much so. But it didn't stop the shooter fans and casual gamers going on endlessly about the supposedly bad combat, the inventory and whatever else. So, the game was dumbed down a lot. I for one doubt that the complaints were ever the reason, but whatever. Is it a surprise that people who liked the original vision of the Mass Effect series are now the ones complaining?

Look, it is completely valid if you like a different gamestyle. But this is where I disagree:
The complaints made for ME1 weren't made by a vocal minority. They were made by virtually anyone. I read reviews from US, UK, Germany, Austria and virtually everywhere the same complaints were voiced.

Also what I can't agree on is with the term of "dumbed down". Sorry but how was the first game "smarter" then?
Because it made you do more simplistic additions and substractions in your inventory? 
If those kind of things make you feel particularly smart I pity you, because organizing what are essentially monotous data tables insults me.
Or was the game "smarter" because you could shoot better by clicking on a certain skill at level up, instead of simply aiming better as a person?

Modifié par Kai Hohiro, 12 août 2010 - 02:54 .

[Darth Drago]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Fine perhaps I over reacted and extracted some things that may not have been there. I just know iakus and bjdbwea. They tend to post a lot about the streamlining the game and dismissing it as less of a thinking game. I guess I just got to a minor boiling point. I realize they don't have to like the game but I get tired of people telling me the games that I like aren't for "smart and mature people".

Fair enough and understandable and it happens to all of us at some point in here more or less. You should check out the posts in the first 50 pages in here it gets kind of heated at times.

Their viewpoints are valid that ME2 does indeed feel a lot more streamlined and in a lot of cases in the game it does feel less of a thinking game especially when every situation you encounter for missions only have the “kill everyone” option to do. A few missions like we saw in ME1 where you could avoid combat completely or in part and have multiple outcomes/results for them as well would have been nice to see.

With that said, I doubt they are telling you (intentionally at least) or anyone that you are not smart and mature people because you like Mass Effect 2, it just seems that the game itself has a feel or look that is aimed in that way.

You enjoy playing Mass Effect 2 and that’s all that matters. Your counter arguments to defend it or even point out things that you don’t like if you have any, is in part why I made this topic. Just expect things to get a little heated at times in here.

Modifié par Darth Drago, 12 août 2010 - 02:58 .

[catabuca]

It really doesn't help either side of the argument to generalise by saying "shooter fans say/want this" or "RPG fans say/want that". Not all shooter fans are created equal, likewise for RPG fans. What's more, some shooter fans are also RPG fans. Imagine that!

I think people on both sides of the debate would do themselves a huge favour by not lumping everyone who expresses criticism about ME2 into the 'RPG' crowd, and everyone who criticises ME1 into the 'shooter' crowd. It just makes people angry, and it isn't at all representative of the broad crowd of players, nor of the opinions for or against any one aspect of either game.