10273 réponses à ce sujet

[bjdbwea]

Lumikki wrote...

Same to you, are you sure you are ME2's target customer?

As someone who bought each and every BioWare game so far, someone who liked ME 1 so much as to pre-ordering the successor, why yes, I would say I should be among the target audience.

Of course I am not sure anymore though, as it seems the shooter crowd and casual gamers are the new target audience. The reasoning probably being that because I like RPGs and the ME series, I'd buy anything with the name on it anyway. Guess what, I for one won't. So maybe I'm not the target customer after all.

Apart from that: I never demanded an answer to me personally, never expected it. Many others too have voiced constructive and valid complaints, but the answer is silence, or as someone above mentioned, just a smug and at times almost insulting sentence here and there.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 15 août 2010 - 10:35 .

[tonnactus]

Firesteel7 wrote...

I feel like the gap between shooters and Mass Effect's story is unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your perspective) getting smaller.

Not only this.A shooter like dead space offers more freedom when it comes to upgrading weapons then Mass Effect 2.
The game has shops that make sense(storing things,buy and sell weapons,energy nodes and semiconductors).

[Lumikki]

bjdbwea wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Same to you, are you sure you are ME2's target customer?

As someone who bought each and every BioWare game so far, someone who liked ME 1 so much as to pre-ordering the successor, why yes, I would say I should be among the target audience.

That doesn't make you target customer, just companies fan. I have also buyed many Biowares games, but I'm not fan of Bioware. I don't judge my buying by company, but the product they sell. I don't expect all they product to be design for my taste of games.

Of course I am not sure anymore though, as it seems the shooter crowd and casual gamers are the new target audience. The reasoning probably being that because I like RPGs and the ME series, I'd buy anything with the name on it anyway. Guess what, I for one won't. So maybe I'm not the target customer after all.

Yeah, hard to know what was they plan with ME series. ME1 is little different style than ME2. I my self was able to enjoy both of them.

Apart from that: I never demanded an answer to me personally, never expected it. Many others too have voiced constructive and valid complaints, but the answer is silence, or as someone above mentioned, just a smug and at times almost insulting sentence here and there.

Yes, many people have given alot of constructive valid complains to both Mass Effects games here. How ever, that doesn't mean every complain is valid as fitting companies future plan's for this serie, because it's related too much players own taste of games. I don't know what they plans are or what direction they gonna go with Mass Effect series. How ever, because I was able to enjoy both they product so far, I don't expect any big problem with ME3. How ever, never be sure about it, because building expectition is the no 1 reason for players disapointmens.

Modifié par Lumikki, 15 août 2010 - 10:48 .

[bjdbwea]

You can not deny though that BioWare used to respond to constructive criticism, as recently as ME 1, whether they thought it was justified or not. Now they don't. Some would probably again say "hey, it's change, and change is cool", but I tend to disagree.

Though to be fair, in one of the rare replies, someone said they'd participate again some time before ME 3 release. But we'll see how much that is about selling the shiny new game, and how much about actually answering some questions.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 15 août 2010 - 10:55 .

[FataliTensei]

bjdbwea wrote...

You can not deny though that BioWare used to respond to constructive criticism, as recently as ME 1, whether they thought it was justified or not. Now they don't. Some would probably again say "hey, it's change, and change is cool", but I tend to disagree.

Though to be fair, in one of the rare replies, someone said they'd participate again some time before ME 3 release. But we'll see how much that is about selling the shiny new game, and how much about actually answering some things.

If it's well after they've cemented everything and already halfway through creating the game, then I'm pretty sure it'll be about creating hype.

I eman if they were really concerned they would have been participating during their planning stage, which is right now or possibly already over.

[Terror_K]

Lumikki wrote...

Terror_K: Same to you, are you sure you are ME2's target customer?

Yes, and no.

Let me put it this way: I feel I was the original Mass Effect's target consumer. As not only an RPG fan but as a huge sci-fi nut who gew up with and loved the styling of sci-fi of the late 70's through to the early 90's, I really felt Mass Effect was a game made for me. It really did seem like it was trying to be less a game and more like an interactive sci-fi movie that was letting me dive into this fantastic new world and actually be part of my favourite genre in the stylings of my favourite era of the genre. It was like all the best stuff from Star Wars, Star Trek, Blade Runner, Babylon 5, Aliens, Dune, Battlestar Galactica, etc. merged into one awesome IP, and it felt less like a game and more like an experience, while still lacing it with enough RPG elements for me to love that aspect too and feel like I was crafting my character and experience with them.

With ME2 a lot that feeling is gone, but not totally lost. The whole thing just feels like it's been designed to be a "great game" and not as much of an experience. I don't feel as immersed as I did in ME1, and a lot of it just feels shallow and lacking. On top of it all some of that classic sci-fi spark seems to have been replaced with a little bit of what would probably be best described as "Modern Hollywood Blockbuster" elements. Not a great deal of it, but there's just a few bits here and there that just feel too "modern Hollywood" and not enough classic sci-fi, and a once semi-realistic universe (if you ignore the space magic that is eezo) comes off a little farcical in ME2 because of it. It's like they went for style over substance and tried to overplay the "badass coolness factor" (or whatever you want to call it) a little too much. The whole style just seems like it was trying to be more mature but came off more as a little childish instead. While ME1 felt more like an homage to classic sci-fi from the golden-era of it, ME2 feels more like just another modern hollywood blockbuster in game form. It's not enough to ruin Mass Effect for me, but it's just enough to make me roll my eyes and groan now and then (especially at things like squaddies running around unprotected and being supposedly safe in hazardous environments wearing only a mask on their faces and with skin exposed, etc.)

Now, what I think BioWare did with ME2 --for whatever reason-- was to try and make the game more mainstream overall and less of a nerd thing, but at the same time in doing so they didn't totally want to alienate their existing fanbase and change up Mass Effect entirely. As a result we've kind of got this mismash of a Mass Effect that's not totally mainstream and not totally nerdy, and instead sits in the middle on the fence. We nerds can be a fickle bunch however, and it often only takes a little bit of mainstream to seep into our stuff to make us turn up our noses, even if it's just a little. To me it's a bit like trying to give two people the same pizza and one likes pineapple and not mushrooms, while the other likes mushrooms and not pineapple. If you put both toppings on it isn't necessarily going to please both of them. Of course this doesn't apply to everybody, but I'm just saying that's how I personally feel... thought I'd better add that before I get accused of speaking for an entire fanbase again and people who say they have similar tastes to mine in sci-fi and RPGs and yet like ME2 start causing a fuss.

That's my theory any way, which is why the answer isn't definite. But I do believe that since I was a fan of the first game, then I should therefore be the target audience for the second. But that's not the way things work these days, and I certainly didn't feel I was the target audience for J.J. Abrams Star Trek even though I'm a huge TOS, TNG, DS9 and (semi) Voyager fan, nor did I feel I was the target audience for Stargate Universe despite being an SG-1 and Atlantis fan. It really would be nice to invest myself in an IP that doesn't feel like it's suddenly decided to abandon my in favour of the majority simply because that's where the profits are.

[tonnactus]

Lumikki wrote...
. How ever, never be sure about it, because building expectition is the no 1 reason for players disapointmens.

A lot of expectations would be fullfiled if the second game would be something that could be called a sequel not only
in the numerical way.

[Lumikki]

Sorry, but I have come late to Biowares forum, so I don't know what it use to be. How ever, my opinion is that developers doesn't seem to be alot on this forum at least writing in it. Other hand I don't really expect it. Mostly because more negative complains in the forum, more it will hurts game developers mood. It should not, but we are all just humans.

Modifié par Lumikki, 15 août 2010 - 11:05 .

[Cootie]

Perhaps being a fan of the company's previous material isn't enough to make you their target audience, but I rarely hear good things regarding a company that abandons a nice, established fanbase in the pursuit of something new.

A nice group of customers followed Bioware through their development of cheese sandwiches, always enjoying them for their special type of cheese.
Then Bioware introduced their Ham And Cheese product, a cheese sandwich with the addition of ham. Although the ham was slightly harder to chew than usual and people issued some complaints and said that they could make it all better if they just improved the ham a little.

Now, in their Ham And Cheese Mark II, they have greatly increased the size of the ham-bits, and the quality, but the sandwich didn't have much room for the oh-so-lovely cheese. So they cut down on the quality and the quantity of the cheese in order to make way for the ham. At the same time, they made a lot of new customers who were ham-enthusiasts (let's call them Hamsters for future reference) who didn't mind the Ham Sandwich With A Dash of Cheese(AKA Ham And Cheese Mark II) and were willing to pay good money for it!

The old Cheese-fans are getting worried that Bioware might ignore the lack of cheese for the sake of attracting more hamsters, and are eagerly voicing their cheesy complaints in the hopes of a nicer, less awkwardly scaled Ham And Cheese Mark Trois.
Now, even though the Cheese-fans might not be the target audience per se, they are still a source of income, and one should remember that breakfast is the most important meal of the day, and ham with cheesy sprinkles might not be enough to satisfy their cravings.

My point is, even though you are not the most important piece of the great, big puzzle, you are still a part of it, and can voice complaints all the same. You can still cling to hope, right?

To the bunkers!

[Terror_K]

The thing is, gradually the old audience will eventually whittle away, and then they'll just be left with their new one and it'll be strong enough that they no longer need the old one. BioWare's games were always more of a niche market anyway, which was kind of okay when gaming itself was more of a niche thing too, but with gaming having become more mainstream that it once was over the past decade or so the market is larger and filled with a more general audience that it once was. Gaming has changed and BioWare seems to be changing with it... merely a bit later than others. I wouldn't mind so much if they decided to go after the mainstream market with a new IP designed for them and kept the more nerdy stuff for the nerds, but it seems they'd rather bastardise their existing IPs to fit them instead. They're going for the Halo, Gears of War and CoD market now*.



* = And before anybody kicks up a fuss over this comment, it in no way means that ALL people who play and enjoy these titles are part of this group. There's a difference between being part of a target audience and happening to like the same stuff that they do too. When I refer to this particular market I mean the types of gamers to pretty much ONLY play these type of games.

[Lumikki]

Cootie wrote...

My point is, even though you are not the most important piece of the great, big puzzle, you are still a part of it, and can voice complaints all the same. You can still cling to hope, right?

To the bunkers!

Hope is allways good to keep, but...

Complaining is never problem if it's constructive. Meaning, people should not attack  or blame company or other people or people groups, when you complain about the game. Tell what YOU did not like and why. Don't try to speculate why company does it or who's to blame. Just say the opinion as feedback.

Now some other people may disagree with you feedback or opinion, but that doesn't mean you are wrong. Because it's still your personal opinion. It just mean others may not feel same as you do with game details.

Modifié par Lumikki, 15 août 2010 - 11:31 .

[bjdbwea]

More like:

Previous BioWare games = Carefully crafted menus.

ME 2 = Fast food.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 15 août 2010 - 11:31 .

[Lumikki]

For me more like this:

Previous Bioware games = Number calc sheets with story.
ME 2 = simplifyed fluid movie with story.

Of cause it's not that simple, but...

Modifié par Lumikki, 15 août 2010 - 11:35 .

[bjdbwea]

If I want to watch a movie, I watch a movie. Besides, ME 2 would be a TV series.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 15 août 2010 - 11:43 .

[tonnactus]

Terror_K wrote...
They're going for the Halo, Gears of War and CoD market now*.

And they would fail. Most shooter fans didnt want to be bothered with daddy issues/talking and still mediocre repetetive combat with no
interesting bossfights.

[Il Divo]

Terror_K wrote...

* = And before anybody kicks up a fuss over this comment, it in no way means that ALL people who play and enjoy these titles are part of this group. There's a difference between being part of a target audience and happening to like the same stuff that they do too. When I refer to this particular market I mean the types of gamers to pretty much ONLY play these type of games.

That's my cue!

*Nathan Fillion-style entrance*

Anyway, just to comment on this without slander, my issue is that expectation always impacts how we view a final product. For example, you look at Mass Effect as an 'experience'. I thought it was a good game, but nothing special and went back to playing Kotor. It didn't showcase any special 'cinematic style' despite its claims. My expectations for Mass Effect 2 weren't all that high and so I was pleasantly surprised to find out that they tried something different, even if it wasn't perfect. Same with the rpg elements.
 
I was not happy with Mass Effect's rpg elements at all. The problem is they tried to treat the sci fi inventory like a standard fantasy inventory and it simply did not work. My DM does not give me 100 small variations on the long sword and tell me to break them down into iron. They should've handled it using a different approach. Have you ever seen the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly? Do you remember that scene in the gun shop where we watch Tuco take the three guns apart and build a brand new one? That is what we should have been doing! We should have been able to have Shepard create his own, personal gun from several different parts. The game was afraid to branch out beyond what it's used to.

[Terror_K]

Il Divo wrote...

It didn't showcase any special 'cinematic style' despite its claims.

Okay... this comment just flabberghasts me. ME1 was the most cinematic game I'd ever played when it came out, and that's part of what made it so unique and appealing to me. So I really am confused as to this comment from you.

I mean, sure... a lot of moments were reduced to over-the-shoulder, back-and-forth scenes during the dialogue moments, and ME2 did admittedly take the cinematic nature to another level and generally improved on this aspect, etc. But ME1 was filled with some great fantastic moments, and while other games had had cinematic cutscenes and the like before, many were either pre-rendered and/or didn't put a character that you'd created right into the scenes like that.

I mean... there are so many scenes that stand out to me, such as the first distress call, Ashley getting chased by The Geth, Nihilus confronting Saren on Eden Prime, encountering the beacon, the introduction to The Citadel, coming across Wrex and Tali for the first time, Garrus in Dr. Michel's office, the scene with Fist down on the ground, the escape from the mine shaft on Therum, the Rachni Queen stuff, Kirrahe's speech on Virmire, confronting Saren on Virmire and your human squaddie's death following it, the final approach to Ilos, the final moments during The Geth attack, etc. These were all fantastic, IMO. No game had ever pulled me in in such a way and made me feel like part of an interactive epic sci-fi movie rather than just an observer of it.

[bjdbwea]

Terror_K wrote...

ME1 was the most cinematic game I'd ever played when it came out, and that's part of what made it so unique and appealing to me.

This. ME 1 had a great amount of memorable cutscenes. And the fact that my player character speaks and plays a role in the cutscenes, was - and is - amazing.

The main story in ME 2 is told in a far less cinematic style than in ME 1. Repeated cutscenes in TIM's office, with just him and Shepard standing / sitting there and talking, wouldn't impress anyone in the movies. Perhaps if they would talk about meaningful stuff, but it's pretty much just "okay Shepard, now go there and do this and that."

[Il Divo]

Terror_K wrote...

Okay... this comment just flabberghasts me. ME1 was the most cinematic game I'd ever played when it came out, and that's part of what made it so unique and appealing to me. So I really am confused as to this comment from you.

Ah, but what you are describing are cut scenes. Mass Effect, no doubt, is filled with cut scenes, but that imo did not take the game to another level. The Halo trilogy has plenty of cut scenes. Jade Empire also had cut scenes. But cut-scenes alone are not enough (imo) for a style to be cinematic. A cinematic style would require that Bioware combine cut-scene elements with their dialogue system in such a way that you feel like you are participating every step of the way. In essence, your conversations become cut scenes.

I mean... there are so many scenes that stand out to me, such as the first distress call, Ashley getting chased by The Geth, Nihilus confronting Saren on Eden Prime, encountering the beacon, the introduction to The Citadel, coming across Wrex and Tali for the first time, Garrus in Dr. Michel's office, the scene with Fist down on the ground, the escape from the mine shaft on Therum, the Rachni Queen stuff, Kirrahe's speech on Virmire, confronting Saren on Virmire and your human squaddie's death following it, the final approach to Ilos, the final moments during The Geth attack, etc. These were all fantastic, IMO. No game had ever pulled me in in such a way and made me feel like part of an interactive epic sci-fi movie rather than just an observer of it.

They certainly were fantastic cut-scenes. But I also could have obtained the exact same effects from any number of games. When I think Bioware adding a cinematic style to their games, I think of them adding dialogue in such a way that every scene feels like a movie, not just cut scenes which are always cinematic in nature. I think of Shepard speaking and doing more than just standing in one spot the entire time. Think about every interaction with Ashley. It's the standard Bioware back and forth (excluding the locker room). There's no movement, no mannerisms, nothing. Watch the cut scenes with most Mass Effect 2 party members. Shepard/party member are rarely standing in one spot. Shepard may sit down, lean against a wall, etc.  

The bolded is the problem. This was one of the few (if only) scenes in Mass Effect that I actually felt that the game took pains to combine dialogue with cinematic effects. Talking to Saren while crouched behind that wall, etc, it was pure poetry. Mass Effect should have taken advantage of those elements. The game only feels cinematic during the elements which I have absolutely no participation in, excluding Saren on Virmire and speaking to the Council. After that, it's standard Bioware dialogue.  

Modifié par Il Divo, 15 août 2010 - 01:21 .

[Anthony41988]

tonnactus wrote...

Terror_K wrote...
They're going for the Halo, Gears of War and CoD market now*.

And they would fail. Most shooter fans didnt want to be bothered with daddy issues/talking and still mediocre repetetive combat with no
interesting bossfights.

In my experience, that is not why most shooter fans don't play ME. They cite a lack of multiplayer as the #1 reason why they don't play these types of games.

So unless Bioware adds some type of MP, they still won't make much of a dent into that market, IMO.

[Sparda Stonerule]

You know what I don't get. A lot of you seem to think that older Bioware games had no complaints aimed at them. I find it slightly hard to believe that some of you don't know that many people have criticized all of Bioware's games in the past. I knew people who played D&D who hated Baulders Gate because they felt it was too simple. Whenever a company makes an RPG they run the risk of people claiming to be "true" RPG fans calling it too simple.

The main issue with that mind set is that the more you play games the easier they get for you. I don't know if people forget that or just don't realize it. I tried to explain Mass Effect 2 to a friend of mine who barely plays games and he said it sounded too complicated. I tried getting another friend to play Devil May Cry 4 and they got killed again and again. As gamers you do need to realize that games are still technically complicated and a lot of them are actually fairly difficult.

You all just spoiled yourselves with any game that you thought had the best story, the game you felt had the best controls, the game you thought was the hardest, and the game you thought was the best. I get the impression that when you play a game you judge it based on what you had in the past. You don't consider how much you'd like it if this was the only game you had ever played. I guess that's why I enjoy so many games because I feel a lot of games are really very good, but they can't quite match some of the "best games ever".

Also it seems selfish to think that a developer should handle every single criticism well. Did it ever occur to you that they made a game they were extremely happy with? With Mass Effect 1 I could tell they were not completely satisfied so they asked people what they wanted changed. To a lesser extent Christina Norman is asking people what they'd like to see in ME 3 on a couple of threads. Yet here you are wanting them to bend over backwards just to please you.

You seem to take this as an insult and suggest they are betraying you. However when any sequel to any game comes out a lot of fans feel betrayed. Not more of the same? Betrayal. More of the same? Betrayal. Same story? Betrayal. Different story? Betrayal. The thing that absolutely slays me is none of you will actually admit it is a matter of opinion. Yet you want them to admit they made a bad game. Even though they feel they made and others agree. Which is funny because you think they made a bad game and others agree. So really you want them to give you something that you are unwilling to give back.

Modifié par Sparda Stonerule, 15 août 2010 - 01:35 .

[Anthony41988]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

You know what I don't get. A lot of you seem to think that older Bioware games had no complaints aimed at them. I find it slightly hard to believe that some of you don't know that many people have criticized all of Bioware's games in the past. I knew people who played D&D who hated Baulders Gate because they felt it was too simple. Whenever a company makes an RPG they run the risk of people claiming to be "true" RPG fans calling it too simple.

The main issue with that mind set is that the more you play games the easier they get for you. I don't know if people forget that or just don't realize it. I tried to explain Mass Effect 2 to a friend of mine who barely plays games and he said it sounded too complicated. I tried getting another friend to play Devil May Cry 4 and they got killed again and again. As gamers you do need to realize that games are still technically complicated and a lot of them are actually fairly difficult.

You all just spoiled yourselves with any game that you thought had the best story, the game you felt had the best controls, the game you thought was the hardest, and the game you thought was the best. I get the impression that when you play a game you judge it based on what you had in the past. You don't consider how much you'd like it if this was the only game you had ever played. I guess that's why I enjoy so many games because I feel a lot of games are really very good, but they can't quite match some of the "best games ever".

Also it seems selfish to think that a developer should handle every single criticism well. Did it ever occur to you that they made a game they were extremely happy with? With Mass Effect 1 I could tell they were not completely satisfied so they asked people what they wanted changed. To a lesser extent Christina Norman is asking people what they'd like to see on a couple of threads. Yet here you are wanting them to bend over backwards just to please you.

You seem to take this as an insult and suggest they are betraying you. However when any sequel to any game comes out a lot of fans feel betrayed. Not more of the same? Betrayal. More of the same? Betrayal. Same story? Betrayal. Different story? Betrayal. The thing that absolutely slays me is none of you will actually admit it is a matter of opinion. Yet you want them to admit they made a bad game. Even though they feel they made and others agree. Which is funny because you think they made a bad game and others agree. So really you want them to give you something that you are unwilling to give back.

Bravo. Great post.

[Terror_K]

Okay, I kind of see what you mean now. I don't really agree, but I understand.



Well, I sort of agree. ME1 did impress me with its cinematic stylings, but I see your point, it's just that it didn't jar so much with me as it did with you. I mean, ME1 did still change things up now and then and provide a few unique camera angles and interaction now and then (you already highlighted Saren's confrontation, but I'd put the Fist confrontation with this as well, as well as things like the introduction to The Consort, dealing with Noveria security, admiring the view of The Citadel with Kaidan and Ashley, etc.). Sure, most was standard over-the-shoulder back and forth with you standing in one area, but it works, and you don't need to make every single moment dynamic. To me ME1 wasn't just like being part of a movie but living out the in-between stuff you wouldn't necessarily see in a movie. For example, you wouldn't even see Shepard speaking with his crew between missions on The Normandy in a movie version.



In either case, I do agree that ME2 did improve things in this regard. Things like speaking with Jacob and Kal'Reegar in cover while bullets fly overhead, chatting with Garrus while preparing for his loyalty mission and flying through Illium and chatting with Seryna were fantastic and really did meld the dialogue with the action well. And as you said, during the ship conversations there were more unique camera angles and more mobility and actions from the characters involved, as well as more of this in conversations overall. Definitely agree that this is a step up, but I still don't think that means ME1 failed in this aspect exactly either. It's easy to say it did in hindsight when comparing it to the later game, but I don't recall many other games before ME1 that did it any better either, so... yeah.

[Terror_K]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

You know what I don't get. A lot of you seem to think that older Bioware games had no complaints aimed at them. I find it slightly hard to believe that some of you don't know that many people have criticized all of Bioware's games in the past. I knew people who played D&D who hated Baulders Gate because they felt it was too simple. Whenever a company makes an RPG they run the risk of people claiming to be "true" RPG fans calling it too simple.

The main issue with that mind set is that the more you play games the easier they get for you. I don't know if people forget that or just don't realize it. I tried to explain Mass Effect 2 to a friend of mine who barely plays games and he said it sounded too complicated. I tried getting another friend to play Devil May Cry 4 and they got killed again and again. As gamers you do need to realize that games are still technically complicated and a lot of them are actually fairly difficult.

You all just spoiled yourselves with any game that you thought had the best story, the game you felt had the best controls, the game you thought was the hardest, and the game you thought was the best. I get the impression that when you play a game you judge it based on what you had in the past. You don't consider how much you'd like it if this was the only game you had ever played. I guess that's why I enjoy so many games because I feel a lot of games are really very good, but they can't quite match some of the "best games ever".

Also it seems selfish to think that a developer should handle every single criticism well. Did it ever occur to you that they made a game they were extremely happy with? With Mass Effect 1 I could tell they were not completely satisfied so they asked people what they wanted changed. To a lesser extent Christina Norman is asking people what they'd like to see in ME 3 on a couple of threads. Yet here you are wanting them to bend over backwards just to please you.

You seem to take this as an insult and suggest they are betraying you. However when any sequel to any game comes out a lot of fans feel betrayed. Not more of the same? Betrayal. More of the same? Betrayal. Same story? Betrayal. Different story? Betrayal. The thing that absolutely slays me is none of you will actually admit it is a matter of opinion. Yet you want them to admit they made a bad game. Even though they feel they made and others agree. Which is funny because you think they made a bad game and others agree. So really you want them to give you something that you are unwilling to give back.

Many of us just want them to say something about the issues here on the board, like BioWare used to. Just to talk with us directly about these things, rather than just stick to making snide comments in interviews. Nobody is demanding that they automatically make the changes that we want, we're just sick of the silent treatment and no direct acknowledgement at all. I'm sure some people would simply be satisfied if they at least explained the reasoning behind the changes, even if said people didn't agree with it. Because at the moment all we have is a bunch of people on both sides making speculations and arguing when the only ones who actually have the real answers are the ones who are keeping silent.

So do we really want them to give us something we're unwilling to give back? No... what we want is something that we've given lots of that they've been unwilling to give back: feedback.

[Il Divo]

Terror_K wrote...

Okay, I kind of see what you mean now. I don't really agree, but I understand.

In either case, I do agree that ME2 did improve things in this regard. Things like speaking with Jacob and Kal'Reegar in cover while bullets fly overhead, chatting with Garrus while preparing for his loyalty mission and flying through Illium and chatting with Seryna were fantastic and really did meld the dialogue with the action well. And as you said, during the ship conversations there were more unique camera angles and more mobility and actions from the characters involved, as well as more of this in conversations overall. Definitely agree that this is a step up, but I still don't think that means ME1 failed in this aspect exactly either. It's easy to say it did in hindsight when comparing it to the later game, but I don't recall many other games before ME1 that did it any better either, so... yeah.

"Failed" is probably the wrong word to use. "It wasn't everything it could be" might be a better phrase. I thought Mass Effect was alot of fun, but needed to take advantage of its unique style more. I'm a sucker for camera angles, pans, etc, like you said and love picking up small details like that in movies, etc, and now Mass Effect 2. The Bourne films, if you've seen them for example, are pretty big on camera angles/atmosphere.

Modifié par Il Divo, 15 août 2010 - 02:10 .