10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Sparda Stonerule]

Terror_K wrote...

Many of us just want them to say something about the issues here on the board, like BioWare used to. Just to talk with us directly about these things, rather than just stick to making snide comments in interviews. Nobody is demanding that they automatically make the changes that we want, we're just sick of the silent treatment and no direct acknowledgement at all. I'm sure some people would simply be satisfied if they at least explained the reasoning behind the changes, even if said people didn't agree with it. Because at the moment all we have is a bunch of people on both sides making speculations and arguing when the only ones who actually have the real answers are the ones who are keeping silent.

So do we really want them to give us something we're unwilling to give back? No... what we want is something that we've given lots of that they've been unwilling to give back: feedback.

I'm going to disagree with you before I sort of agree with you. I hope that's ok. Bioware is giving some feedback. As I mentioned Christina Norman is actually asking people what they'd like in Mass Effect 3 and I am not certain but I believe she is gathering data and considering things. Just because they aren't directly talking to you doesn't mean they aren't reading. I think they may not be directly responding most of the time because the things a lot of you want are worded rather well. Plus there is a bit less complaining about this game. Therefore there are less chances for someone to make a really difficult post to understand about what they didn't like. So if it's any credit to you personally I think you word your concerns well so I don't see the inherent need for them to ask you to clarify what you meant. Who knows they may even become more involved with you guys the closer ME 3 gets to being done.

Besides that, I think the reasoning for the changes is because they as a team felt it was for the best. I honestly don't think Bioware would release a game they are not at the very least satisfied with. They seem happy with ME 2. Trying to explain every detail about why they changed certain things would generate a lot more complaints and questions. I doubt most people would even be satisfied with their complex reasons. I mean Mass Effect 2 didn't even come out that long ago, I believe they will interact with people on this board more as Mass Effect 3 gets further into development. Actually I hope they do because I want Mass Effect 3 to be a great game.

[Terror_K]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

I'm going to disagree with you before I sort of agree with you. I hope that's ok. Bioware is giving some feedback. As I mentioned Christina Norman is actually asking people what they'd like in Mass Effect 3 and I am not certain but I believe she is gathering data and considering things.

Out of curiosity, where abouts is this topic where Christina is asking people about ME3 suggestions?

Just because they aren't directly talking to you doesn't mean they aren't reading. I think they may not be directly responding most of the time because the things a lot of you want are worded rather well. Plus there is a bit less complaining about this game. Therefore there are less chances for someone to make a really difficult post to understand about what they didn't like. So if it's any credit to you personally I think you word your concerns well so I don't see the inherent need for them to ask you to clarify what you meant. Who knows they may even become more involved with you guys the closer ME 3 gets to being done.

Besides that, I think the reasoning for the changes is because they as a team felt it was for the best. I honestly don't think Bioware would release a game they are not at the very least satisfied with. They seem happy with ME 2. Trying to explain every detail about why they changed certain things would generate a lot more complaints and questions. I doubt most people would even be satisfied with their complex reasons. I mean Mass Effect 2 didn't even come out that long ago, I believe they will interact with people on this board more as Mass Effect 3 gets further into development. Actually I hope they do because I want Mass Effect 3 to be a great game.

My main problem is the comments that pop up in interviews that just come across as insulting and, dare I say, arrogant, on BioWare's part. As I said before, they come across with this whole superior "Mass Effect 2 was perfect" attitude and seem to immediately dismiss any and all who have spoken out against the changes. I mean, for one thing, if it's such a minor group, how come the issue (that there were some people who felt the RPG elements were a little too culled, that the game was too much of a shooter, etc.) comes up in most of the interviews at some point?

I dunno. I used to respect BioWare a lot, but these last couple of years I've been seeing a disturbing trend that's making me more and more wary of them and where they're taking things. And this whole DA2 business just isn't helping, because I at least thought that side of things was going to be okay. And it's hard to respect a company that doesn't seem to respect some of its oldest fans and seems like they'd rather branch out to a new audience than keep (some of) their old one.

[Cootie]

Alright, so I had another look at the Dragon Age 2 thing and I felt I needed to add a piece to my sandwich-story.

It appears as if Bioware has intended for all of their new delicious releases to display the same amount of ham, making the non-hamsters feel very uneasy, wondering if their favourite breakfast-place has given their cheese-craving bellies any thoughts, or if they will just add some cheesy sprinkles and be done with it. as with Ham And Cheese Mark II.

[Il Divo]

Are the food analogies making anyone else hungry, or is it just me?

[Sparda Stonerule]

Terror_K wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

I'm going to disagree with you before I sort of agree with you. I hope that's ok. Bioware is giving some feedback. As I mentioned Christina Norman is actually asking people what they'd like in Mass Effect 3 and I am not certain but I believe she is gathering data and considering things.

Out of curiosity, where abouts is this topic where Christina is asking people about ME3 suggestions?

Just because they aren't directly talking to you doesn't mean they aren't reading. I think they may not be directly responding most of the time because the things a lot of you want are worded rather well. Plus there is a bit less complaining about this game. Therefore there are less chances for someone to make a really difficult post to understand about what they didn't like. So if it's any credit to you personally I think you word your concerns well so I don't see the inherent need for them to ask you to clarify what you meant. Who knows they may even become more involved with you guys the closer ME 3 gets to being done.

Besides that, I think the reasoning for the changes is because they as a team felt it was for the best. I honestly don't think Bioware would release a game they are not at the very least satisfied with. They seem happy with ME 2. Trying to explain every detail about why they changed certain things would generate a lot more complaints and questions. I doubt most people would even be satisfied with their complex reasons. I mean Mass Effect 2 didn't even come out that long ago, I believe they will interact with people on this board more as Mass Effect 3 gets further into development. Actually I hope they do because I want Mass Effect 3 to be a great game.

My main problem is the comments that pop up in interviews that just come across as insulting and, dare I say, arrogant, on BioWare's part. As I said before, they come across with this whole superior "Mass Effect 2 was perfect" attitude and seem to immediately dismiss any and all who have spoken out against the changes. I mean, for one thing, if it's such a minor group, how come the issue (that there were some people who felt the RPG elements were a little too culled, that the game was too much of a shooter, etc.) comes up in most of the interviews at some point?

I dunno. I used to respect BioWare a lot, but these last couple of years I've been seeing a disturbing trend that's making me more and more wary of them and where they're taking things. And this whole DA2 business just isn't helping, because I at least thought that side of things was going to be okay. And it's hard to respect a company that doesn't seem to respect some of its oldest fans and seems like they'd rather branch out to a new audience than keep (some of) their old one.

First off I forget which thread it is but I will look for it, if it is only for your sake and the sake of my statement. Secondly Bioware will lose some of its oldest fans no matter what they do. You really can't expect a company to not adapt to things. Some old fans grow up and stop playing game. Some old fans grow up and realize these games aren't quite what they thought they were. Old fans stop following companies even if things stay true to their roots. Kind of like people with Nintendo. Nintendo games like Zelda and Mario and Metroid always draw criticism even from fans. Take Super Mario Sunshine and Windwaker. They were torn apart for being different even though I loved the. However when Twilight Princess and Galaxy came out they drew criticism from people for being more of the same. I guess my point is that people complain about every game. I know you feel concerned that you don't like it so you feel that they are personally ignoring you. I happen to think that's unfair. Most good developers do try to make as many people happy as possible. However there will always be unhappy people, whether they be fans who barely played any of their games or people who played almost all of their games.

It's unfortunate but hard to avoid whether they stay the same or change. I hope you do honestly understand it's a matter of opinion and not everyone would have been happy regardless of how ME 2 turned out.

EDIT: Oh lord, I found the thread I was thinking of involving Christina Norman. *rubs the bridge of his nose and sighs* I forgot it was only about Heavy weapons and how they should be implemented, if at all. Just for the sake of showing how forgetful I can be sometimes: http://social.biowar...3/index/4408465. Honestly I hope the devs ask more questions along these lines as ME 3 gets closer. That thread is fairly constructive too which is rather refreshing from the normal back and forth that goes on for days.

Modifié par Sparda Stonerule, 15 août 2010 - 03:43 .

[CatatonicMan]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Oh lord, I found the thread I was thinking of involving Christina Norman. *rubs the bridge of his nose and sighs* I forgot it was only about Heavy weapons and how they should be implemented, if at all. Just for the sake of showing how forgetful I can be sometimes: http://social.biowar...3/index/4408465. Honestly I hope the devs ask more questions along these lines as ME 3 gets closer. That thread is fairly constructive too which is rather refreshing from the normal back and forth that goes on for days.

It's nice that they are giving at least a semblance of interest in our opinions. Still, that is just them collecting feedback from us; they have yet to give us any real feedback.

[Max Legend]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

You know what I don't get. A lot of you seem to think that older Bioware games had no complaints aimed at them. I find it slightly hard to believe that some of you don't know that many people have criticized all of Bioware's games in the past. I knew people who played D&D who hated Baulders Gate because they felt it was too simple. Whenever a company makes an RPG they run the risk of people claiming to be "true" RPG fans calling it too simple.

The main issue with that mind set is that the more you play games the easier they get for you. I don't know if people forget that or just don't realize it. I tried to explain Mass Effect 2 to a friend of mine who barely plays games and he said it sounded too complicated. I tried getting another friend to play Devil May Cry 4 and they got killed again and again. As gamers you do need to realize that games are still technically complicated and a lot of them are actually fairly difficult.

You all just spoiled yourselves with any game that you thought had the best story, the game you felt had the best controls, the game you thought was the hardest, and the game you thought was the best. I get the impression that when you play a game you judge it based on what you had in the past. You don't consider how much you'd like it if this was the only game you had ever played. I guess that's why I enjoy so many games because I feel a lot of games are really very good, but they can't quite match some of the "best games ever".

Also it seems selfish to think that a developer should handle every single criticism well. Did it ever occur to you that they made a game they were extremely happy with? With Mass Effect 1 I could tell they were not completely satisfied so they asked people what they wanted changed. To a lesser extent Christina Norman is asking people what they'd like to see in ME 3 on a couple of threads. Yet here you are wanting them to bend over backwards just to please you.

You seem to take this as an insult and suggest they are betraying you. However when any sequel to any game comes out a lot of fans feel betrayed. Not more of the same? Betrayal. More of the same? Betrayal. Same story? Betrayal. Different story? Betrayal. The thing that absolutely slays me is none of you will actually admit it is a matter of opinion. Yet you want them to admit they made a bad game. Even though they feel they made and others agree. Which is funny because you think they made a bad game and others agree. So really you want them to give you something that you are unwilling to give back.

Well said m8.

[William Adama]

Max Legend wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

You know what I don't get. A lot of you seem to think that older Bioware games had no complaints aimed at them. I find it slightly hard to believe that some of you don't know that many people have criticized all of Bioware's games in the past. I knew people who played D&D who hated Baulders Gate because they felt it was too simple. Whenever a company makes an RPG they run the risk of people claiming to be "true" RPG fans calling it too simple.

The main issue with that mind set is that the more you play games the easier they get for you. I don't know if people forget that or just don't realize it. I tried to explain Mass Effect 2 to a friend of mine who barely plays games and he said it sounded too complicated. I tried getting another friend to play Devil May Cry 4 and they got killed again and again. As gamers you do need to realize that games are still technically complicated and a lot of them are actually fairly difficult.

You all just spoiled yourselves with any game that you thought had the best story, the game you felt had the best controls, the game you thought was the hardest, and the game you thought was the best. I get the impression that when you play a game you judge it based on what you had in the past. You don't consider how much you'd like it if this was the only game you had ever played. I guess that's why I enjoy so many games because I feel a lot of games are really very good, but they can't quite match some of the "best games ever".

Also it seems selfish to think that a developer should handle every single criticism well. Did it ever occur to you that they made a game they were extremely happy with? With Mass Effect 1 I could tell they were not completely satisfied so they asked people what they wanted changed. To a lesser extent Christina Norman is asking people what they'd like to see in ME 3 on a couple of threads. Yet here you are wanting them to bend over backwards just to please you.

You seem to take this as an insult and suggest they are betraying you. However when any sequel to any game comes out a lot of fans feel betrayed. Not more of the same? Betrayal. More of the same? Betrayal. Same story? Betrayal. Different story? Betrayal. The thing that absolutely slays me is none of you will actually admit it is a matter of opinion. Yet you want them to admit they made a bad game. Even though they feel they made and others agree. Which is funny because you think they made a bad game and others agree. So really you want them to give you something that you are unwilling to give back.

Well said m8.

Give me a break bro. I bought ME2 with the expectation that it would be similar to ME1, the product was already established and had expectations. I don't care if Bioware was happy with their new product, they should be aiming to please the market fans. The sequel wouldn't be here if it wasn't for us. My opinion should matter.

If Bioware had fabricated some completely new franchise and skinned it with ME2 gameplay I wouldn't be complaining because it's a different 'verse. Do you think I whined and complained about Gears of war 1 & 2 when I bought them? No, because I knew EXACTLY what I was buying.

ME2 says RPG on the game cover. Ive played KOTOR 1 & 2, Jade Empire, and ME 1 & 2. Of all these games, what is the least like a RPG, the answer is ME2. Of all these games which has the most resembalance to a traditional modern 3rd person shooter, ME2. Of all these sequels, which most chaged between the 1st and 2nd game? ME2.

ME2 is not an RPG. Its not even an action RPG, its a damn action game. Why? Just look at the mainstream shooters today, they ALL  include RPG skill trees in shooters these days, some of which dwarf ME2's in complexity. For shame!

Also, this franshise didn't need a SHAKE UP. ME1 was critically acclaimed, what was the excuse to completely alter a formula that worked well in the first game? Ya they should've smoothed things out for the sequel, not revamp everything.

All I wanted was Bioware to make the game for the genre intended. I felt hustled after I finished this game because I went into hoping to play ME 1 part 2, but re-played Gears of war.

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...
 
I was not happy with Mass Effect's rpg elements at all. The problem is they tried to treat the sci fi inventory like a standard fantasy inventory and it simply did not work. My DM does not give me 100 small variations on the long sword and tell me to break them down into iron. They should've handled it using a different approach. Have you ever seen the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly? Do you remember that scene in the gun shop where we watch Tuco take the three guns apart and build a brand new one? That is what we should have been doing! We should have been able to have Shepard create his own, personal gun from several different parts. The game was afraid to branch out beyond what it's used to.

I do agree that with ME 1 the inventory was...not so good... Though if my DM gave us 100 swords to be broken down into iron, we'd be doing cheers and fistbumps (what can I say?  It's an unusual game world )

Customizing weapons would definitely be the way to go.  Mods were a good first step.  But could have been taken a lot further.  Instead we got standard, limited,and above all linear upgrades, which was definitely not the most creative path to take.  Inventory was fixed, but more in the way you "fix" your dog or cat.

[Fanbus]

I thought I was the only one around here that was of the opinion that ME2 sold so well because it basked in the glory of ME1. One reason why I got ME2 was because of what I'd been told about ME1. So I figured I'd get a similar, if not better experience.
Anyhow
The term "what you Forum people say will have no effect on what games Bioware makes or changes made to existing games/franchises" is thrown around here a lot. Not just by some forum folks but by some Bioware folks as well. That's a shame, what happened to the old Bioware from the NwN boards that listened to us? What happened to the Bioware live team that kept in contact with the community and actually facilitated making the game experience better?

It saddens me that several development houses have gone down in flames for letting their ego get to them. The "we do what we wanna do" attitude only brings them a step closer to financial ruin. But that's ok, Bioware is high on the heels of SW deal, with a major MMO coming out soon, and more than stellar sales of blockbuster titles. Nothing can go wrong right?

One thing I've learned as a businessman myself, is to never underestimate the power of word of mouth, particularly the dedicated vocal crowd that enjoys your product and is quick to scrutinize it. Shut them out or ignore them and you're only fixing a recipe for future financial crash. Casuals and the mass market move on to the next big thing on a whim, but your dedicated vocal crowd are there with you through the ups and downs.

Modifié par Fanbus, 15 août 2010 - 06:55 .

[ArchDemonXIII]

  I have a sneaking suspicion that BW's lack of interaction has a lot to do with EA. The whole situation is eerily similar to what happened with Monolith when they started getting published by WB. I've heard hearsay that some of these deals legally prevent the developer from badmouthing the publisher, but true or not, it's never a sound decision to start telling your customers how much your boss sucks. Go ahead and try that. I did when I was younger: I don't work there anymore.

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...


I do agree that with ME 1 the inventory was...not so good... Though if my DM gave us 100 swords to be broken down into iron, we'd be doing cheers and fistbumps (what can I say?  It's an unusual game world )

My group would probably create a makeshift 10 ft. pole or try to build a train. I suspect that most dnd groups are of the odd variety. We have very few 'good' characters for example. It makes for interesting (and dangerous) experiences.

Customizing weapons would definitely be the way to go.  Mods were a good first step.  But could have been taken a lot further.  Instead we got standard, limited,and above all linear upgrades, which was definitely not the most creative path to take.  Inventory was fixed, but more in the way you "fix" your dog or cat.

Mods were a good first step, but so are upgrades. Both need to be taken a step further however. My biggest problem with Mass Effect is that it seems like Bioware thought they could get away with using the standard rpg formula where you give your players 100 different items to sort through. I don't think that really works for something like Mass Effect. For an rpg/tps hybrid, researching unique upgrades or building unique weapons really should have been the road to take from the start. As others have pointed out, we're Commander Shepard, not some poor fool on the run from the law.

Modifié par Il Divo, 15 août 2010 - 07:43 .

[Jaysonie]

[quote]Fanbus wrote...

The term "what you Forum people say will have no effect on what games Bioware makes or changes made to existing games/franchises" is thrown around here a lot. Not just by some forum folks but by some Bioware folks as well. That's a shame, what happened to the old Bioware from the NwN boards that listened to us? What happened to the Bioware live team that kept in contact with the community and actually facilitated making the game experience better?

[/quote]

Other than this thread, it really isnt used often. If you could give me proof that the Bioware folks are using this term, than please prove me wrong. Just because they arent posting very often dosent mean they arent on the forum. Actually, Christina Norman is online quite often.

[quote]Fanbus wrote...
It saddens me that several development houses have gone down in flames for letting their ego get to them. The "we do what we wanna do" attitude only brings them a step closer to financial ruin. But that's ok, Bioware is high on the heels of SW deal, with a major MMO coming out soon, and more than stellar sales of blockbuster titles. Nothing can go wrong right?
[/quote]

Which devolpers?
Also, I doubt bioware thinks like that.

[quote]Fanbus wrote...
One thing I've learned as a businessman myself, is to never underestimate the power of word of mouth, particularly the dedicated vocal crowd that enjoys your product and is quick to scrutinize it. Shut them out or ignore them and you're only fixing a recipe for future financial crash. Casuals and the mass market move on to the next big thing on a whim, but your dedicated vocal crowd are there with you through the ups and downs.[/quote]
[/quote]
Word and mouth for Mass Effect 2 has been positive due to praise from critics and users alike. http://www.metacriti.../critic-reviews
And if you could provide me with the sales breakdown for ME2 to prove your claim about the casual players than please show me.

[Sparda Stonerule]

Fanbus wrote...

I thought I was the only one around here that was of the opinion that ME2 sold so well because it basked in the glory of ME1. One reason why I got ME2 was because of what I'd been told about ME1. So I figured I'd get a similar, if not better experience.
Anyhow
The term "what you Forum people say will have no effect on what games Bioware makes or changes made to existing games/franchises" is thrown around here a lot. Not just by some forum folks but by some Bioware folks as well. That's a shame, what happened to the old Bioware from the NwN boards that listened to us? What happened to the Bioware live team that kept in contact with the community and actually facilitated making the game experience better?

It saddens me that several development houses have gone down in flames for letting their ego get to them. The "we do what we wanna do" attitude only brings them a step closer to financial ruin. But that's ok, Bioware is high on the heels of SW deal, with a major MMO coming out soon, and more than stellar sales of blockbuster titles. Nothing can go wrong right?

One thing I've learned as a businessman myself, is to never underestimate the power of word of mouth, particularly the dedicated vocal crowd that enjoys your product and is quick to scrutinize it. Shut them out or ignore them and you're only fixing a recipe for future financial crash. Casuals and the mass market move on to the next big thing on a whim, but your dedicated vocal crowd are there with you through the ups and downs.

I'd like quotes of those supposed Bioware people who say "what you Forum people say will have no effect on what games Bioware makes or changes made to existing games/franchises". Because I highly doubt anyone said that. Did you even look at my link? That's asking opinions about an aspect of the game and asking what they could do to improve something. I know a lot of concerned people feel like they won't be listened to, but I think opinions will shape parts of the next game.

To William Adama who said that your opinion should matter, I agree it should. However I played and loved the first game. I replayed it just to fix one tiny thing in ME 2 (Fist was dead, I wanted him alive so I replayed the game). So if your opinion should matter so should mine. I loved ME 2 even more and yes it is an RPG. It's not "complicated" or overly "stat based" but it is in fact and RPG. Just because you have a negative opinion and I have a positive opinion does not make either of right nor wrong. Yet there you are essentially calling me wrong just because I liked the game instead of agreeing with your disappointment. Both sides should be considered when making the game. The side that is happy with the game, and the side that wants some things back from the first game. Like I said I wouldn't mind having elevators back, I wouldn't mind a more efficient inventory, I wouldn't mind the Mako or Hammerhead (or better yet, both), and I would actually like banter to come back. However I like the cover system. I know a lot of levels seem tailored with lots of cover, but you are in fact a soldier. Real soldiers use stop and pop tactics to fight their enemies. So I prefer it to Mass Effects system where Shepard could somehow eat bullets for breakfast and brag about it later. So I guess my preference is for the combat to be somewhat realistic. Well besides that, Vanguards, Sentinels, Soldiers, Engineers, and Infiltrators, don't need to spend that much time in cover. Even the Adepts don't need cover sometimes, but they need it more than others. Each unique class skill when used properly allows you to stay out of cover more. I know some people just stop and pop, but that's where advanced strategy comes in. So you can stop and pop through the game without thinking much, but I charged my way through Insanity blasting things in the face with my shotgun then charging on. Assault Armor is ridiculous, I can blast through anything while constantly popping Assault Armor. Adrenaline Rush is great since you can run at the same speed while enemies slow down, so you can mover from point to point pretty fast. Explosive drone distracts several enemies at once sometimes. The key is to target the right enemy and distract them while you pick people off. Any cloak variation lasts really long so you can reposition then take shots, cloak move and take more shots. Singularity is currently the least versatile but you can lock down almost any enemy and not allow them to fire. So your tactics in combat can make the game a lot more fun.

Heh I may have gotten a little side tracked there. However, my point is that I liked the game and it feels like an RPG to me. So your opinion is just as valid as mine.

Modifié par Sparda Stonerule, 15 août 2010 - 08:00 .

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Im pretty sure Stanley Woo and many of the DA2 developers in the forum will be happy to tell you Biowares new mantra of "we develop games our way, and if you dont like it, thats tough ****** Im afraid".



Of course, theres nothing wrong with that per se. Developing games by the whims of a varied fanbase is a stupid thing to do. But so is ignoring when a large group of your fanbase gets pissed off about something with such an attitude.

[Sparda Stonerule]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Im pretty sure Stanley Woo and many of the DA2 developers in the forum will be happy to tell you Biowares new mantra of "we develop games our way, and if you dont like it, thats tough ****** Im afraid".

Of course, theres nothing wrong with that per se. Developing games by the whims of a varied fanbase is a stupid thing to do. But so is ignoring when a large group of your fanbase gets pissed off about something with such an attitude.

Again I would really like some links to these quotes.

[ArchDemonXIII]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Im pretty sure Stanley Woo and many of the DA2 developers in the forum will be happy to tell you Biowares new mantra of "we develop games our way, and if you dont like it, thats tough ****** Im afraid".

Of course, theres nothing wrong with that per se. Developing games by the whims of a varied fanbase is a stupid thing to do. But so is ignoring when a large group of your fanbase gets pissed off about something with such an attitude.

 Bowing to the whims of the majority is "selling out". Bowing to the whims of a vocal few, now that's integrity.

not aimed specifically at you, Dinkamus.

Modifié par ArchDemonXIII, 15 août 2010 - 08:46 .

[Fanbus]

To Jaysonie

And if you could provide me with the sales breakdown for ME2 to prove your claim about the casual players than please show me.

I don't have to provide you with anything since I'm not here to have a personal debate with you. I'm neither inclined nor have the time to do so. I merely stated my opinion and views, take it as you will.

Sparda Stonerule

Again I would really like some links on these quotes.

[Edit] Ok found it:

You are absolutely correct. It is not our job to parent the child or determine what content is acceptable or unaceptable for our players. But on the other hand, it is not your jobe to dictate what content we include or don't include in our games. Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not.

http://social.biowar...996475/2#997343

Totally understandable, I won't argue at all since after all it's their game. But what I don't understand is how far that "curtain" goes. From what I gathered (and several folks on that thread as well as the poster just above) took it to mean "We do what we want to do, regardless of what you suggest". Maybe I don't know how hard that wall is. What I gathered from it (and I'm not alone in this), was that our suggestions regarding game changes, elements, etc are mute.

It'd be nice if Stan could come in and elaborate on that. I'm on their side when it comes to creative/artistic freedom. I wouldn't like it if an interest group strong armed me into changing what I made creatively or restricting me. So as far as that goes, no problem there. However, I do have a problem if people that are fans of a peice of work want to make suggestions on making that work better or more encompassing, and the creator shutting them out completely.

Modifié par Fanbus, 15 août 2010 - 08:55 .

[bjdbwea]

I actually think ME 2 - gameplay and story wise - is nowhere near what BioWare initially intended. But what can you do when others call the shots? Tell everyone on a public forum? I think the silence says perhaps more than the carefully worded PR statements we do get from time to time.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 15 août 2010 - 09:04 .

[tonnactus]

Fanbus wrote...

To Jaysonie

And if you could provide me with the sales breakdown for ME2 to prove your claim about the casual players than please show me.

I don't have to provide you with anything since I'm not here to have a personal debate with you. I'm neither inclined nor have the time to do so. I merely stated my opinion and views, take it as you will.

Sparda Stonerule

The prices could be a strong indicator:
www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_5

And they dont released a demo several months after the game came out without a reason.

Modifié par tonnactus, 15 août 2010 - 09:18 .

[Jaysonie]

tonnactus wrote...

Fanbus wrote...

To Jaysonie

And if you could provide me with the sales breakdown for ME2 to prove your claim about the casual players than please show me.

I don't have to provide you with anything since I'm not here to have a personal debate with you. I'm neither inclined nor have the time to do so. I merely stated my opinion and views, take it as you will.

Sparda Stonerule

The prices could be a strong indicator:
www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_5

And they dont released a demo several months after the game came out without a reason.

Sales breakdown=Like, what percantage of buyers were hardcore vs what percentage were casual players. Not how well it sold. Besides, a 7 month old game selling for about 30 dollars(i converted since you gave me pounds) in the usa is pretty much on par with the rest of the game industry.

Edit: http://www.amazon.co...0/dp/B001TORSII released in late January 
                                               vs
          http://www.amazon.co...81908468&sr=1-1 release in early March
 

I say its selling just fine.

Modifié par Jaysonie, 15 août 2010 - 09:43 .

[Jaysonie]

Fanbus wrote...

To Jaysonie

And if you could provide me with the sales breakdown for ME2 to prove your claim about the casual players than please show me.

I don't have to provide you with anything since I'm not here to have a personal debate with you. I'm neither inclined nor have the time to do so. I merely stated my opinion and views, take it as you will.

Sparda Stonerule

Again I would really like some links on these quotes.

[Edit] Ok found it:

You are absolutely correct. It is not our job to parent the child or determine what content is acceptable or unaceptable for our players. But on the other hand, it is not your jobe to dictate what content we include or don't include in our games. Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to you (and/or your family) or not.

http://social.biowar...996475/2#997343

Totally understandable, I won't argue at all since after all it's their game. But what I don't understand is how far that "curtain" goes. From what I gathered (and several folks on that thread as well as the poster just above) took it to mean "We do what we want to do, regardless of what you suggest". Maybe I don't know how hard that wall is. What I gathered from it (and I'm not alone in this), was that our suggestions regarding game changes, elements, etc are mute.

It'd be nice if Stan could come in and elaborate on that. I'm on their side when it comes to creative/artistic freedom. I wouldn't like it if an interest group strong armed me into changing what I made creatively or restricting me. So as far as that goes, no problem there. However, I do have a problem if people that are fans of a peice of work want to make suggestions on making that work better or more encompassing, and the creator shutting them out completely.

I think Stanley meant something like "Its our game, you cant tell us what to put in it"(not a quote, just how i interpreted it). I dont think that means there going to stop taking suggestions. However, there just that, suggestions. Some posters need to remember that in the end, Bioware decides what goes in there games and players shouldnt be angry if it dosent turn out the way they wanted it to.

Modifié par Jaysonie, 15 août 2010 - 09:36 .

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

ArchDemonXIII wrote...

 Bowing to the whims of the majority is "selling out". Bowing to the whims of a vocal few, now that's integrity.

not aimed specifically at you, Dinkamus.

Yeah, pretty much. Its what Bioware did with ME1, since the cries of "DIS R NOT SHOOTY ENUF!" is about equal to, or perhaps even less than the outcry of dumbed down RPG elements and gameplay in general. Of course Bioware and the journalists who worship ME2 as the bastion of video gamings future claim "every criticism of ME1 was taken and improved upon".

I mean, how you can you deny that when, after complaints were made about the inventory, they removed it completely to improve on it? My friend had a car that wasnt working so well, so I improved on it by driving it into a lake. Strange that he tried to strangle me, rather than thank me.

But of course, I think its been established Bioware cares more about critical opinion rather than fan opinion. After all, you cant coerce a fan into a favourable outlook, but you can coerce so called "honest" journalists whose reputations and paychecks are potentially at stake.

Really though, Bioware arent doing anything "for the fans" be they majority or minority. They are doing it for unobtained mainstream audience.

After over a decade of working within a niche, you bet your ass shifting focus to people who didnt give a crap about you for any of that decade is selling out.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 15 août 2010 - 09:54 .

[Fanbus]

I think Stanley meant something like "Its our game, you cant tell us what to put in it"(not a quote, just how i interpreted it). I dont think that means there going to stop taking suggestions. However, there just that, suggestions and some posters need to remember that in the end, Bioware decides what goes in there games.

I've no problem with that. There's a lot of bunk suggestions going on that definately don't even fit the core of the game much less the engine. But aside from those there's quite a few suggestions being passed around that would have actually made the game even better, some of which are within the scope of what currently is already there.

From what I've read thus far the folks wanting sublime changes to the game, love the game (and other BW games). Some of the changes they are suggesting refer to the gameplay mechanics of ME1 whereby they were watered down or generalized in ME2 for no apparent reason.

That's ok, ME2 being its own thing is alright. But that's not what it was billed as (at least not for me). I was expecting more of ME1 and perhaps even a throw back to System Shock 2 or Deus Ex. It amazes me that for 2010 Bioware of all people isn't going further than those games. Instead of stepping forward it seems to me they are stepping back and simplifying things.

In my opinion: Xbox players don't need things watered down or simplified, particularly stuff billed as an RPG. If anything they are yerning for deeper storytelling, a fuller interactive experience, and dynamic character development. I say Xbox because lets be honest here; Bioware is focused primarily on console development (with the exception of SW:TOR). ME1 had those elements, ME2 hit some folks like a slap in the face when it took a step back and watered some of that down instead of moving the milestone forward.

[Sparda Stonerule]

Fanbus your statement has to do with sex in the game and you took it entirely out of context. I'm sure you know that the developers have the final say what will actually be in the game. Fans can have an influence but they can not demand things be placed in the game. Thinking that they absolutely must listen to you and your ideas is a bit silly. You are free to suggest and ask for things, but obviously it won't always show up.

As far as the prices go it seems like both games took a dip in how much they cost. I'm not sure the reasons but I doubt it's because 2 isn't selling well. From the 9admittedly unreliable) internal numbers and numbers from VGcharts it is selling well, just under 600 thousand copies less than the original in around 7 months as opposed to roughly 2 years of sales. Those are good numbers. So I have no idea what the deal with the dip in prices is really all about. Although it is common for games over half a year old to go down to 30 bucks.

Modifié par Sparda Stonerule, 15 août 2010 - 10:15 .