10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Kriztaen]

Solaris Paradox wrote...
Yeah, that was annoying. That said, my Soldier did in fact feel "better than ever."

Some of the classes did feel like they got a good boost, the class specific powers were great imo and classes like the Infiltrator, Vanguard, Engineer  and Soldier really felt significantly more powerful (the Vanguard's rush made it feel like a totally new/fun class)

But then playing an Adept or Sentinel felt like...well to be honest it felt like somewhere along the way Adept/Sentinel Shep took stupid/weak pills

[Solaris Paradox]

Kriztaen wrote...

Some of the classes did feel like they got a good boost, the class specific powers were great imo and classes like the Infiltrator, Vanguard, Engineer  and Soldier really felt significantly more powerful (the Vanguard's rush made it feel like a totally new/fun class)

But then playing an Adept or Sentinel felt like...well to be honest it felt like somewhere along the way Adept/Sentinel Shep took stupid/weak pills

It could be worse. You could be completely fudging helpless for half the game because your mage only starts with a two-spell-per-day limit and doesn't gain enough spells fast enough to be a competant threat until the very end of the game.

Because, y'know, that's been done before. And it sucked.

[tonnactus]

Fhaileas wrote...


First and foremost, it is extremely inefficient, expensive and not very secretive. After all you will be kidnapping and killing a lot of specimens, traveling around the galaxy in easily recognizable ship, attacking foreign points of interest, all while possessing perfect cloning technology (able to create and raise a perfect Krogan within a week), ample time, good base of operation and limitless resources. Why?

Not to forget that the reapers transformed a humanoid species like the protheans into bugs,what is also moronic,
but at the same time contradicts that reapers need a genetic diverse species at all. It seems like even uwe boll
would be a better story writer compared with the crap bioware delivered with Mass Effect 2.

[Kriztaen]

bjdbwea wrote...

BioWare/EA need to give their writers the artistic freedom they require. No more "this is too complex", or "cut down on dialogue, players want to get to the shooting", or "forget coherence, we need a more flashy cutscene", or "that's not approved, we don't want the media to attack us again", or "market research shows that casual gamers prefer conveniently palatable, independent and unconnected episodes", or whatever else the writers, as I have no doubt, were told. Give them freedom.

Can't agree more.

[tonnactus]

Kriztaen wrote...

Solaris Paradox wrote...
Yeah, that was annoying. That said, my Soldier did in fact feel "better than ever."

Some of the classes did feel like they got a good boost, the class specific powers were great imo and classes like the Infiltrator, Vanguard, Engineer  and Soldier really felt significantly more powerful (the Vanguard's rush made it feel like a totally new/fun class)

To be honest,the infiltrator sucks too.In the first game,their weapon damage was equal,now the soldier could do far more damage even with a sniper rifle.Considering that abilities like overload and sabotage are not availabe anymore,whats the point of this class? The lame chameleon spell(had enough of that in oblivion) didnt make it up for it.
I rather play a engineer with a sniper rifle.

Modifié par tonnactus, 21 août 2010 - 12:29 .

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

bjdbwea wrote...

Yeah, I'm also not having any illusions about that. A proper writer would of course be the first thing they need if there's to be any hope of delivering a proper finale to this series.

But other things are required too:

BioWare/EA need to give their development team the time they need this time. Because even the best writer can't deliver a fantastic story in no time. But more importantly, the programmers and animators need to have the time to implement the story. Otherwise, you end up with a story being told through repetitive meetings between Shepard and TIM in a bland office, with no other NPC playing any role, and with text boxes instead of dialogue when it comes to weaving in old NPCs and distributing side quests. (To name only two obvious examples of cut corners due to time constraints.)

BioWare/EA need to give their writers the artistic freedom they require. No more "this is too complex", or "cut down on dialogue, players want to get to the shooting", or "forget coherence, we need a more flashy cutscene", or "that's not approved, we don't want the media to attack us again", or "market research shows that casual gamers prefer conveniently palatable, independent and unconnected episodes", or whatever else the writers, as I have no doubt, were told. Give them freedom.

Unfortunately I think you may have missed one of them there: "its cheaper this way".

Not only do I get the impression that Bioware is aiming to maximise their profits by targeting the widest mainstream audience possible by dumbing the games down, but I also think they are looking to make them as cheaply as they can as well.

Its why, for all the criticism its receieved (and I have seen plenty of it across the internet), Im worried well get another disconnected series of linear shooter missions making up ME3.

Somehow I just get the feeling its been decided that because its cheaper to make disposable levels like that, its where Bioware is headed now.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 21 août 2010 - 12:31 .

[Solaris Paradox]

tonnactus wrote...

Not to forget that the reapers transformed a humanoid species like the protheans into bugs,what is also moronic,
but at the same time contradicts that reapers need a genetic diverse species at all. It seems like even uwe boll
would be a better story writer compared with the crap bioware delivered with Mass Effect 2.

The Protheans were transformed into insectoid creatures? I thought they were always insectoid creatures. Where was this info? Or are you just assuming things?

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Solaris Paradox wrote...

The Protheans were transformed into insectoid creatures? I thought they were always insectoid creatures. Where was this info? Or are you just assuming things?

No what tonnactus says is absolutely correct, the protheans genetic structure has been completely altered so much that they are not even protheans anymore.

Those statues on Ilos and the figures in the vision? The ones that look a bit like zoidberg from futurama? Those are the protheans.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 21 août 2010 - 12:33 .

[Siegdrifa]

Kriztaen wrote...

Solaris Paradox wrote...
Yeah, that was annoying. That said, my Soldier did in fact feel "better than ever."

Some of the classes did feel like they got a good boost, the class specific powers were great imo and classes like the Infiltrator, Vanguard, Engineer  and Soldier really felt significantly more powerful (the Vanguard's rush made it feel like a totally new/fun class)

But then playing an Adept or Sentinel felt like...well to be honest it felt like somewhere along the way Adept/Sentinel Shep took stupid/weak pills

I don't agree, the Adept is surely the hardest class to start with, but at high level it's much more powerfull.
You take down the defence of the ennemy quickly and with a large radius singularity they can't stay protected behind the wall, and if you use warp ammo, everything taken in your singularity get massacred.
The Adept  feels like a hungry predator saying "you can't escape from me".

For Sentinel, i find it to be better than in ME1 (i think it's the most tasteless class of ME1 in my opinion), in ME2 you start with warp and overload, so it gives you every tool you need to take down any kind of defence while you have the armor to protect you. At high level, it's a very defencive class with tools that help you for every kind of situation.

[bjdbwea]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Unfortunately I think you may have missed one of them there: "its cheaper this way".

Not only do I get the impression that Bioware is aiming to maximise their profits by targeting the widest mainstream audience possible by dumbing the games down, but I also think they are looking to make them as cheaply as they can as well.

Its why, for all the criticism its receieved (and I have seen plenty of it across the internet), Im worried well get another disconnected series of linear shooter missions making up ME3.

Somehow I just get the feeling its been decided that because its cheaper to make disposable levels like that, its where Bioware is headed now.

I think I covered that when I said that BioWare/EA need to give their developers the time they need. Because I agree, it seems that they have a two-fold strategy: Do everything to maximize sales, and do everything to minimize costs. It's common business practice of course, but if your product is art, it shouldn't be applied to the maximum. Artistic freedom is important.

Mind you, at the moment they're still trying to keep making RPGs, sort of. That's commendable. Because let's face it, slapping the name "Mass Effect" on a usual linear 10 hour long shooter would be much cheaper yet. And if we look at the bizarre sales numbers these days thanks to an (not to use more derogatory descriptions) incomprehensible mainstream audience, it might have sold better than ME 2. Probably even better than if they took all the time in the world to make the best RPG ever. As I said, it's commendable to even try and produce something else than another totally mainstream action game, I'll give them that.

But at the moment everyhing indicates that they're intent on continuing to squeeze the name BioWare by forcing them to deliver games quicker and by demanding ever increasing sales numbers. Other developers had to deal with that before. Many couldn't meet the expectations sooner or later.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 21 août 2010 - 12:56 .

[Solaris Paradox]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Solaris Paradox wrote...

The Protheans were transformed into insectoid creatures? I thought they were always insectoid creatures. Where was this info? Or are you just assuming things?

No what tonnactus says is absolutely correct, the protheans genetic structure has been completely altered so much that they are not even protheans anymore.

Those statues on Ilos and the figures in the vision? The ones that look a bit like zoidberg from futurama? Those are the protheans.

Hm. I must not have been paying enough attention to those points, thanks for clarifying.

[zodiworm]

About satisfaction:
I am 71 years old and I play games since day one of computing machines.
My frustration is that you pay US$ 75,00 for a game and you discover that to play it you have to spend hours at forums and looking for patches and still the controls do not work !

If I have to register a game, I should be entitled to receive any corrections for that game, without so much pain.
A simple message would suffice.  

Mass Effect 2 for PC is not a well finished product.

Greetings

[Kriztaen]

Siegdrifa wrote...

I don't agree, the Adept is surely the hardest class to start with, but at high level it's much more powerfull.
You take down the defence of the ennemy quickly and with a large radius singularity they can't stay protected behind the wall, and if you use warp ammo, everything taken in your singularity get massacred.
The Adept  feels like a hungry predator saying "you can't escape from me".

For Sentinel, i find it to be better than in ME1 (i think it's the most tasteless class of ME1 in my opinion), in ME2 you start with warp and overload, so it gives you every tool you need to take down any kind of defence while you have the armor to protect you. At high level, it's a very defencive class with tools that help you for every kind of situation.

I dunno, the thing that really put me off was the whole "down-protection to use full fighting potential" which made every fight feel too scripted. But then the whole "scripted fighting" is something that I already started rolling my eyes at everytime I saw a chest high wall in the distance. I still love ME 1 and 2 but to be honest I have gained a certain distaste for chest high walls, I spent the better half of my second playthrough wishing for the destruction engine from the Red Faction series just so I could blast those damn things away.

Also for Sentinels, I can get how someone would like them more in the second game, but I think its more a matter of taste, I liked ME1's more simply for the "screwing around" factor thanks to his versatility. ME2's seems to be more straight to the point, not something I really liked after the freedom of the first...

Also for a previous post about how Infiltrators still sucking, I'm not an expert, I felt that some classes like Infiltrator and Vanguard were a step up from my initial trial. I stick mainly with the Sentinel and Engineer as my main Sheps but made it a point to try out all classes at least through the starting areas in both games just to get a feel so its not like I really played end-game with them.

[Solaris Paradox]

Ah, chest-high walls and stock cover objects. The stuff legends are made of.

[tonnactus]

Solaris Paradox wrote...

Let me ask you: if you know that there's a quick, dirty route to getting what you want, are reasonably confident you can avoid a lot of trouble and are equally confidant you can deal with what trouble you can't avoid, why would you instead opt to choose the costly method that takes ten times as long?

To wait 50000 years to harvest something is not quick.Its dumb if its just for the need of reproduction.Crop a suitable
race would be the best option,and far "quicker" too. Lets not forget,they kill all other advanced races that dont fit and sometimes the waiting produced a complete failure like the protheans,in this case they waited 50000 years for nothing,because the protheans could be used to build a new reaper.

[Kriztaen]

tonnactus wrote...

Solaris Paradox wrote...

Let me ask you: if you know that there's a quick, dirty route to getting what you want, are reasonably confident you can avoid a lot of trouble and are equally confidant you can deal with what trouble you can't avoid, why would you instead opt to choose the costly method that takes ten times as long?

To wait 50000 years to harvest something is not quick.Its dumb if its just for the need of reproduction.Crop a suitable
race would be the best option,and far "quicker" too. Lets not forget,they kill all other advanced races that dont fit and sometimes the waiting produced a complete failure like the protheans,in this case they waited 50000 years for nothing,because the protheans could be used to build a new reaper.

But then...for them 50,000 years is nothing. In their own words. They pretty much live forever and have been around since before even they can remember (if the talk with Nazara is anything to go by)

50'000 years to them might be to us what a few weeks are. Reapers are from their own point of view the final level of evolution, the highest level of perfection. Waiting around for a little bit when you have all the time in the world (pardon the clichè term) is nothing if it means you may have a return of perfection for the time you invested.

Also just as a side note, we can't be sure they exterminate all other races. I am guessing that they only went for humans at first because of how instrumental humanity was in the death of one of their own. I think it was one of the comics that mentioned that the collectors bought certain subjects like all left handed Turian's or fraternal Krogan twins or whatever. So judging by that we can hypothesize that humans just got bumped to the front of the line for assimilation but a few other races at least were also soon to be on the melting pot (forgive the lame pun) so it might not be that the whole Prothean thing was all wasted, they likely made 2-3 other Reapers during that time, it was just the Protheans that failed, and even they were repurposed to some use.

Modifié par Kriztaen, 21 août 2010 - 01:40 .

[Solaris Paradox]

Kriztaen wrote...

To wait 50000 years to harvest something is not quick.Its dumb if its just for the need of reproduction.

"Just" for the need of reproduction is based on two speculations: your speculation that there need only be one reason, and EDI's speculation that it's even for reproduction in the first place.

EDIT: I put forward the theory that reproduction is a secondary objective, because Reapers don't see reproduction as a necessity--they very rarely die.

50'000 years to them might be to us what a few weeks are.

 
That tends to happen when you sleep through it all and the only time you spend awake is time that you spend doing the same thing you spent your last set of waking hours doing. Now the Reapers have considerable reason to take swift, decisive action. Their comfortable little cycle was broken up by the Protheans' meddling and Shepard's intervention. Don't you get it? They're not just conducting business as usual, they're working to stop their cycle from breaking. If they feel the need to rush the human Reaper out the door more quickly than you'd think they would, possibly it's because they want that Reaper to pick up Sovereign's slack before the situation gets too out of control for them to reliably assume they can do what they meant to do. Perhaps it was their intention that the human Reaper assault the Citadel and open their trap-door relay as Sovereign tried to do before it. It's also reasonable that Shepard spooked them enough that they willingly abandoned patience in favor of stomping a potential threat before it could stomp them. The Reapers aren't used to having their plans thwarted, so assuming they would react in a comfortable fashion to the situation doesn't work.

Modifié par Solaris Paradox, 21 août 2010 - 01:46 .

[Kriztaen]

Solaris Paradox wrote...
 
That tends to happen when you sleep through it all and the only time you spend awake is time that you spend doing the same thing you spent your last set of waking hours doing. Now the Reapers have considerable reason to take swift, decisive action. Their comfortable little cycle was broken up by the Protheans' meddling and Shepard's intervention. Don't you get it? They're not just conducting business as usual, they're working to stop their cycle from breaking. If they feel the need to rush the human Reaper out the door more quickly than you'd think they would, possibly it's because they want that Reaper to pick up Sovereign's slack before the situation gets too out of control for them to reliably assume they can do what they meant to do. Perhaps it was their intention that the human Reaper assault the Citadel and open their trap-door relay as Sovereign tried to do before it. It's also reasonable that Shepard spooked them enough that they willingly abandoned patience in favor of stomping a potential threat before it could stomp them. The Reapers aren't used to having their plans thwarted, so assuming they would react in a comfortable fashion to the situation doesn't work.

Seems very viable. I would actually say the Human Reaper might have been a mix of:

- Replacing Sovereign
- Making your supposed greatest threat into your greatest asset.
- Act of Desperation
- Assimilate the race that seems to pose the most resistance first to break the spirit of the others

[tonnactus]

Kriztaen wrote...

50'000 years to them might be to us what a few weeks are.

"Souvereign is a machine.He thinks like a machine".
And machines would take the most rational and effective way to reproduce theirselves.That is croping.Why even "sleep"
for this? Even when they sleep for whatever reason,they still would have their little helpers that could build new reapers for them.
And even when they didnt want to crop,they wouldnt wipe out the race completly they used for building a reaper and hope a new suitable race would exists for the next cycle.
The only thing that make sense is to get new cultures,experiences,knowledge,race.And maybee the reapers even have good intentions in weird way,like organic races tend to destroy themselves in wars and they just rescued the best for ascension.
But reproduction alone is dumb.

[Solaris Paradox]

tonnactus wrote...

Why even "sleep"
for this?

Reapers spend the in-between time out in dark-space, in a dormant state--which implies a lack of consciousness, when you consider that the retreat to dark-space for the sole purpose of not being left vulnerable while dormant. the exception was Sovereign, who stayed behind--but also entered a dormant state--to keep an eye on things and start things up when things were ready for starting. As for the why--easy. Why stay awake for fifty thousand years of pitch-black inactivity? Why shut off your Xbox rather than letting it run idle all night?

[tonnactus]

Solaris Paradox wrote...
 Why stay awake for fifty thousand years of pitch-black inactivity? Why shut off your Xbox rather than letting it run idle all night?

My xbox dont have self awareness as far as i know...
So reapers wouldnt sleep if there isnt a reason for it and enough ressources(energy) to stay active.

Modifié par tonnactus, 21 août 2010 - 02:56 .

[Solaris Paradox]

tonnactus wrote...

My xbox dont have self awareness as far as i know...

Machines burn out. You can't say "Reapers are machines!" and then turn around and ignore your own logic when I point out that machines need rest, too.

[Kriztaen]

tonnactus wrote...

The only thing that make sense is to get new cultures,experiences,knowledge,race.And maybee the reapers even have good intentions in weird way,like organic races tend to destroy themselves in wars and they just rescued the best for ascension.
But reproduction alone is dumb.

True, that is one of the things I have thought of, also they leave behind *their* tech for us to build upon, perhaps they are also looking for what new and on a rare occasion before-unseen creations each cycle's races can make with tech that is still in essence compatible with them and could in some way even improve upon their "perfection"

But then actually at some point maybe there might just be the chilling thought that perhaps they are doing this all simply for the sake of reproduction, their original goal lost even to themselves. When speaking with Sovereign for the first time it felt a little like he skirted around the subject of where they are from and who made them as if he himself did not know but did not want to admit it.

It actually reminds me of a question posed to Christian Bale's character in the movie *Equilibrium* where he is asked why he exists. His answer was vague enough to sound like it had use (I exist to preserve this great society - or something along those lines) to which the other person scathingly responded "so you exist to continue your existence?"

We won't really know until ME3. I just hope to god the devs/writers don't decide to cop-out and leave us beating the Reapers and never getting an explanation



Edit: fixed spelling errors and clarified some text

Modifié par Kriztaen, 21 août 2010 - 03:07 .

[PHub88]

OH cmon its common sense...They shutdown to preserve their energy...Even though you would have to wonder what kind of tech an all mighty AI could come up with after MILLIONS of years...you would imagine they would find a way to keep energy to the point where its not even a concern anymore but oh well we wouldnt have a game then.

[MassEffect762]

Kriztaen wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

The only thing that make sense is to get new cultures,experiences,knowledge,race.And maybee the reapers even have good intentions in weird way,like organic races tend to destroy themselves in wars and they just rescued the best for ascension.
But reproduction alone is dumb.

True, that is one of the things I have thought of, also they leave behind *their* tech for us to build upon, perhaps they are also looking for what new and on a rare occasion before-unseen creations each cycle's races can make with tech that is still in essence compatible with them and could in some way even improve upon their "perfection"

But then actually at some point maybe there might just be the chilling thought that perhaps they are doing this all simply for the sake of reproduction, their original goal lost even to themselves. When speaking with Sovereign for the first time it felt a little like he skirted around the subject of where they are from and who made them as if he himself did not know but did not want to admit it.

It actually reminds me of a question posed to Christian Bale's character in the movie *Equilibrium* where he is asked why he exists. His answer was vague enough to sound like it had use (I exist to preserve this great society - or something along those lines) to which the other person scathingly responded "so you exist to continue your existence?"

We won't really know until ME3. I just hope to god the devs/writers don't decide to cop-out and leave us beating the Reapers and never getting an explanation



Edit: fixed spelling errors and clarified some text

Ah ha!

Speculation.

The reapers don't care about the resources/tech created over the 50,000 year waiting cycle.

They see organics as the their "life force" and improvement via organic slushies and forced incorporation into their ranks.

The Reapers were organic at one time, now they are a collection of tech/minds/pasts/races existing only to grow and survive.

Modifié par MassEffect762, 21 août 2010 - 03:20 .