10273 réponses à ce sujet

[tonnactus]

Solaris Paradox wrote...

Machines burn out.

Im sure they have repair mechanism.Like the keepers who keep the citadel working

[tonnactus]

PHub88 wrote...

OH cmon its common sense...They shutdown to preserve their energy...Even though you would have to wonder what kind of tech an all mighty AI could come up with after MILLIONS of years...you would imagine they would find a way to keep energy to the point where its not even a concern anymore but oh well we wouldnt have a game then.

There is nothing exotic necessary.There are enough suns in the galaxy and gas for nuclear fusion.Just not in the place their hide and sleep for whatever reason.

[Jackal13th]

the only thing about Mass effect 2 is i cant  go back and replay a serten saved part . like 1/2 way through save then complet the game and you want too go back and replay that part  .

on the good side  the game is real good  fun to play .7 times so far . but that is just me

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...

iakus wrote...

Was the cinematic style a selling point for Bioware?  I just recall science fiction rpg and trilogy of imported saves.  

 http://pc.ign.com/ar...0/910387p1.html

This pretty much hits home why the side quests are so terrible in general between the series, assuming we ignore loyalty missions. It's why I find the paragraph of text over Kahoku's body so lacking in depth. It's the same reason why I find the Chantry boards in Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2's emails idiotic. These games were made with the intention of focusing on voice-acting, cut-scenes, and dialogue. Instead, we're getting paragraphs of text. If Mass Effect was designed in the manner of Planescape or BG, then I would agree with you. However, this is not the case. It was intended to make use of this style.

That said, Bioware hasn't really done good side quests since Jade Empire. The ones we've received lately are short, bland, and uninspiring in comparison.

Well, I guess I'll just have to say that in this particular case, I'm willing to settle for less.  I find myself wishing they had spent as much effort on the stroy as on the cinematics.

Anyway, something more than a paragraph would be nice.  But I can do without a scene of Shepard at a terminal, playing with an omnitool, or standing over a body.  At least there were only a few scenes of text, there were dozens of emails

I'm confused. You found the paragraph of text to be satisfactory to convey depth, but dozens of emails somehow are not? I thought your point in the last post was that you don't need high powered graphics, spoken dialogue,etc, in order to have depth driven home? In this case, shouldn't we regard emails as being satisfactory? 

I think it's because the paragraph of text is the conclusion of the mission.  You battled your way here, now what you se is:  It describes things you do or see which are probably not necessary to show, such as hacking a computer, examining a body, and so on.  I know what's going on, so if they wanna cut that corner, they can.. A more cinematic scene might be better, if there's unique dialogue or a decision to be made.  However, I'd rather have the paragraph than a cutscene of Shepard doing something, followed by Grunt saying "That should do it"  which is followed by a black and gold box flashing "Press F to exit the mission"  At least with the text I can believe the resources went to something more important.

Why is this better than emails?  Because the emails are completely unnecessary.  They're just reminders that  "I did this quest.  I met this person" 

They have no impact on the story, Toombs?  I'd really like to explain things to him, given the threatening lett I received.  I'd hate to have to kill him in self-defense.  Except, I can't reply, which doesn't matter since I never actually see him anyway.

They give no opportunity for character development.   Han Olar, presumably in an institution of some kind, also sends a message I can't respond to (poor guy really needs a friend)

They do not expand the universe in any meaningful way. Dr. Michel wants me and Garrus to stop by and see her on the CItadel.  Well, that may be a problem, given that section of the wards apparantly no longer exists

Some of them don't even make sense. It's nice that Samesh Bhatia opened his restaurant and all, but how'd he get this account? 

 I also consider the new backgrounds of ME 2 to be an unnecessary improvement, if that makes any sense.  I mean, Mordin's recruitment mission, I couldn't tell you how detailed or unique the walls were.  Just that there were disturbingly few forks in the road.  The most interesting detail that entire run to the clinic was the sick batarian.  That I remember.  Just like I really didn't notice or care that all the labs or warehouses in ME 1 look the same. 

And I felt differently at this point. Sure, the architecture isn't usually the first thing on my mind. But once I've run past it 10 or more times across a dozen different parents, all quests become the sames. The walls don't need to be extremely detailed or unique, but rehashing the same exact four walled room doesn't help build atmosphere. I didn't feel like I was infiltrating a top secret military organization (Cerberus) to obtain revenge for Kahoku simply because a paragraph of text told me I was doing so. I need something more by way of intellectual, emotional, or any other value if it is to be considered 'deep'. 

To be honest "infiltrating" is pretty much impossible in either Mass Effect game.  The stragegy is always "Kick open the door and look for trouble"  One weakness in the games, I think.

That being said, for me, unless there's something particularly distinctiveor otherwise noteworthy , I inevitably tune out the background after a while.  A particularly distinctive feature, like a pretty starscape, an unusual piece of geography, or strange weather, sure I'll notice that.  But the same four room warehouse or lab doesn't bother me because I simply don't notice it.  What I do notice is the dead body on the floor, followed by the text which reads:

You check for a pulse but find none. Admiral Kahoku is dead. Despite the ferocity of the creatures he was sealed in with, there are no signs of trauma to his corpse. The needle marks on his arm suggest a different means of execution.

Cerberus murdered him!  I can only hope it wasn't thresher maw venom!  Time to make them pay!

I'd say Wrex's armor quest is more of a loyalty mission than the loyalty missions in ME2.  Doing that quest directly affects Wrex's behavior at a given point of the main storyline.  Wrex's Armor very much blurs the line between main quest/side quest. 

Wrex's loyalty mission basically lowers the number of points needed in charm/intimidate in order to convince Wrex to back down, if I recall. If it were truly a 'loyalty' marker, it might have done a bit more than change two lines of dialogue in the Wrex encounter. Regardless, I think it's more accurate to describe the loyalty missions as "focus missions" than anything else. My point was should these be considered main quest or side quest.

If by "lowers the number of points needed", you mean "down to zero", then yes I agree.  Otherwise it has to be near-maxed or he dies either by your hand or Ashley's.

If these were "focus missions" I would have liked to see them make a mistake that gets them or others killed.  Or refer to their personal mission as what gets them through.  Something to show how or why the lost focus, or kept it.   For example:

If you don't do Jack's loyalty missions and have her do the biotic bubble, at the end when she's buckling, she could have suddenly collapsed crying about "No more tests! No more pain!". 

Grunt during Hold the Line could suddenly go into a bloodrage, lashing out at friends and foe alike until he has to be put down. 

Jacob while leading a second fire team, could freeze at a critical point, not knowing what instruction to give, meaning no cover fire for the tech expert, who goes down in a hail of gunfire from the Collectors

Alternatively, Jacob after successfully leading a second fire team could quip something like "I just thought about what my father would have done, then did the opposite"

Tali while unlocking the door, could mutter "Thank you father, for being such a good teacher"

Or during the  "Hold the Line" speech, people with successful loyalty missions could invoke something of importance to them Shep helped them with.  Something worth fighting for  Possible examples:

Miranda:  "For Oriana"
Tali:  "For you, father"
Legion "For the future"
Samara "For righteousness" (Morinth (quietly) "For me")
Jacob "For duty"
Thane "For Kolyat"
Garrus "For the dead"
Mordin "For the living"
Grunt "For Clan Urdnot"
Jack "For pain"
Zaed "For vengence"
Kasumi:  "For love"

The LI could substitute "for Shepard" for their line.  And Shepard could wrap up with "For EACH OTHER!" (or, as the ads said "For the lost!")

Modifié par iakus, 21 août 2010 - 07:11 .

[Solaris Paradox]

EDIT: ...That's so cheesy it's almost actually good.

tonnactus wrote...

Im sure they have repair mechanism.Like the keepers who keep the citadel working

You can't infinitely sustain something that degrades with NOTHING, tonnactus. They're sitting out in empty vaccuum for 50,000 years. Repair system, sure. Repair system that should be expected to main them for fifty thousand years at full operational capacity on whatever resources they started said 50,000 with? And you people think Mass Effect 2 doesn't make sense...

Modifié par Solaris Paradox, 21 août 2010 - 07:13 .

[Darth Drago]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Solaris Paradox wrote...

The Protheans were transformed into insectoid creatures? I thought they were always insectoid creatures. Where was this info? Or are you just assuming things?

No what tonnactus says is absolutely correct, the protheans genetic structure has been completely altered so much that they are not even protheans anymore.

Those statues on Ilos and the figures in the vision? The ones that look a bit like zoidberg from futurama? Those are the protheans.

-Try to limit game spoilers like the origins on the Collectors please…

-On the subject though:

Yet EDI can pinpoint the exact birth planet of that Collector you get the DNA sample from within seconds? After all its genetic modifications with no sample DNA of its original species to compare it to.

Remember the Keepers were just like the Collectors, another genetically modified race. Makes you wonder what the Keepers originally looked like now.

Kriztaen wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Solaris Paradox wrote...

Let me ask you: if you know that there's a quick, dirty route to getting what you want, are reasonably confident you can avoid a lot of trouble and are equally confidant you can deal with what trouble you can't avoid, why would you instead opt to choose the costly method that takes ten times as long?

To wait 50000 years to harvest something is not quick.Its dumb if its just for the need of reproduction.Crop a suitable
race would be the best option,and far "quicker" too. Lets not forget,they kill all other advanced races that dont fit and sometimes the waiting produced a complete failure like the protheans,in this case they waited 50000 years for nothing,because the protheans could be used to build a new reaper.

But then...for them 50,000 years is nothing. In their own words. They pretty much live forever and have been around since before even they can remember (if the talk with Nazara is anything to go by)

50'000 years to them might be to us what a few weeks are. Reapers are from their own point of view the final level of evolution, the highest level of perfection. Waiting around for a little bit when you have all the time in the world (pardon the clichè term) is nothing if it means you may have a return of perfection for the time you invested.

Also just as a side note, we can't be sure they exterminate all other races. I am guessing that they only went for humans at first because of how instrumental humanity was in the death of one of their own. I think it was one of the comics that mentioned that the collectors bought certain subjects like all left handed Turian's or fraternal Krogan twins or whatever. So judging by that we can hypothesize that humans just got bumped to the front of the line for assimilation but a few other races at least were also soon to be on the melting pot (forgive the lame pun) so it might not be that the whole Prothean thing was all wasted, they likely made 2-3 other Reapers during that time, it was just the Protheans that failed, and even they were repurposed to some use.

-First off I doubt the Reapers harvest any species that are not advanced enough to reach the Citadel or use a relay. They used the Citadels computers and the relays to track down all those that made it there. The Citadel is like the key to who gets wiped out. Its like the Reapers version of the Star Trek first contact laws (or whatever its called), they don’t make contact with races that have not developed space travel. Reapers to destroy the planets with populations that have not found their relays. We only know about the Prothians because they had made those beacons were they the only race that made it to the Citadel and use the relays is still unclear.

I have a hunch that the relays are more like beacons used by the Reapers. When they finish their harvesting they deactivate all of them and maybe even move them near the star systems of their next potential target harvest. Once that race finds and activates that relay the “sleeper” Reaper in the galaxy, Sovereign in this case will record all the new activated beacons and their locations when it wakes up every now and then to check on things. The realys could for all we know scan ships before they send them to their destinations getting basic biological make ups of the races in those ships.

Wiping out an entire galaxy of all life would be the worst thing you can do since it takes millions of years for species to evolve. Look at our own planets history, how long ago did man first take its steps on Earth? It would be in the rough 50,000 year ago range wouldn’t it? So on that theory the Reapers would have wiped us out during their last harvest along with at least the Asari and Krogans who if you remember live for about 1000 years, that would be a mere 50 generations for them

Also who says the Reapers just sit out there and do nothing for those 50,000 year breaks? The Mass Effect games takes place in one galaxy in the universe. Who says that the Reapers don’t do their harvesting thing in the rest of the galaxies in the universe?

Secondly, if you pay attention to whats going on in ME2 during Mordin’s recruiting and loyalty missions you would already know that the human race was targeted because of our genetic code. Thats why the Vorcha were testing out that virus on Omega, the humans and them were the only races not affected by it. We did get some serious attention no thanks to Shepard practically single handedly taking down Sovereign and stopping their harvesting event but where the Reapers/Collectors interested in us before or after that?

[bjdbwea]

iakus wrote...

Or during the  "Hold the Line" speech, people with successful loyalty missions could invoke something of importance to them Shep helped them with.  Something worth fighting for  Possible examples:

Miranda:  "For Oriana"
Tali:  "For you, father"
Legion "For the future"
Samara "For righteousness" (Morinth (quietly) "For me")
Jacob "For duty"
Thane "For Kolyat"
Garrus "For the dead"
Mordin "For the living"
Grunt "For Clan Urdnot"
Jack "For pain"
Zaed "For vengence"
Kasumi:  "For love"

The LI could substitute "for Shepard" for their line.  And Shepard could wrap up with "For EACH OTHER!" (or, as the ads said "For the lost!")

I like that idea. I always found the two speeches of Shepard during the final mission to be underwhelming: Too short, not very inspired and unpersonal. What you described should have been mandatory in a supposedly character-driven game. But it's just one of many examples where the writers dropped the ball. With a little more effort, a good writer could have significantly increased a lot of scenes in the game. Especially the beginning and the ending of the game would still be basically bad ideas, but the game would flow much better.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 21 août 2010 - 08:06 .

[Pocketgb]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...
But of course, since the writers cant even remember what world Shepard spoke to sovereign on (No legion, thats virmire, not Ilos), Im not suprised they would forget that certain fans were already well aware of the reapers using organics as their tools, so learning of the collectors isnt some huge shock.

Seeing the Collectors working for the Reapers is indeed not a huge shock.
Finding out what a Collector really is a bit different, however, especially given what we were told.
Learning what really goes into making a Reaper is also eerie based on the preconceptions 
How this will lead into ME3 is yet to be seen.

Pocketgb wrote...
There is a difference between creating links to a following chapter (geth and quarian potential war for example) and just plain leaving things unfinished.

And how exactly is this interpreted?

Overall, though, I think the main 'problem' is that instead of putting the focus on the story quests, Bioware put a lot of emphasis on your party members. It's worked very well, for some. I personally love the direction.
Here's the issue: Me1 was a fun story, but I felt that everything about your party members was a bit lacking, especially with the romances. While I still find the romances rather rushed (at least for the new characters) I did find ME2 refreshing.

I do think that voice-acting sucks in RPGs, though.

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...
Sure you will...

So how many people considered ME2 an improvement?

[Iakus]

Pocketgb wrote...


Overall, though, I think the main 'problem' is that instead of putting the focus on the story quests, Bioware put a lot of emphasis on your party members. It's worked very well, for some. I personally love the direction.
Here's the issue: Me1 was a fun story, but I felt that everything about your party members was a bit lacking, especially with the romances. While I still find the romances rather rushed (at least for the new characters) I did find ME2 refreshing.

The degree of emphasis on the party members was unexpected,  But that's not necessarilly a bad thing.  The problem was that the characters were poorly integrated into the game.  Basically each character was a toy you could take of the shelf, play with for a while, and put back on the shelf.  While doing their missions, they become full of life.  Doing mainline or other character's missions, they become mute, or give very generic remarks.  Either way, no personality.  I relly didn't feel what their morivation was to follow Shepard, Why were they fighting, ya know?

[Pocketgb]

Hence why I blame the voice-acting

[Iakus]

Pocketgb wrote...

Hence why I blame the voice-acting

I'm afraid it goes a bit beyond voice acting

[Lumikki]

iakus wrote...

I relly didn't feel what their morivation was to follow Shepard, Why were they fighting, ya know?

This is because you are looking personal motivations to do something. You do know that people do stuff without it to be personal. Example when someone hire you to do job. Or maybe because you are friend and want to help. or because you understand some common need to get something done. And so on. I don't really understand why some people have so high need to personal emotional motivations.

[MassEffect762]

iakus wrote...

Pocketgb wrote...

Hence why I blame the voice-acting

I'm afraid it goes a bit beyond voice acting

It's budget/cost, all the missing dialogue/character development and deeper involvement within the game come down to the desire to raise thier own bar.

It's something they  have to desire  to do, I'm not so sure they can or want to, spend more time and money to enrich the experience.

Modifié par MassEffect762, 22 août 2010 - 02:41 .

[Iakus]

Lumikki wrote...

iakus wrote...

I really didn't feel what their morivation was to follow Shepard, Why were they fighting, ya know?

This is because you are looking personal motivations to do something. You do know that people do stuff without it to be personal. Example when someone hire you to do job. Or maybe because you are friend and want to help. or because you understand some common need to get something done. And so on. I don't really understand why some people have so high need to personal emotional motivations.

Because if you're going to do a "Suicide Mission" you need to have a really good reason to do it.  No doubts.  No hesitation.  This isn't a cause worth killing for, this is a cause worth dying for.  It doesn't get much more emotional than that. 

Yes it may be to help a friend, but unless you were an absolute altruist, it would have to be you're closest friend whom you would do anything for. 

A common cause I could also agree with.  That's what the ME 1 team had in common.  DIfferent reasons but same casue.  But many of the squadmates seemed to be there simply because they have nothing better to do (Grunt, Thane, Samara, Zaed (sorta), Jack) Personal missions may provide focus or loyalty or even a reason to see the mission through.  But I never see it on screen, not in words or actions.  After the mission, the character is exactly the same as before the mission.

[Iakus]

MassEffect762 wrote...

It's budget/cost, all the missing dialogue/character development and deeper involvement within the game come down to the desire to raise thier own bar.

It's something they  have to desire  to do, I'm not so sure they can or want to, spend more time and money to enrich the experience.

The problem is, the bar is already raised.  I've played their games before , I know they can do better.  Unfortunately in this case they seemed to have gathered all the pieces needed for a good game, and simply didn't put it all together.  ME 2 doesn't fit well with ME 1.  The characters, while individually good concepts, don't fit well with the story.  The villains are an interesting concept, but little is done with them. 

Playing ME 2 feels like eating a half-cooked meal.  I just know it could have been much much better if a little more care was made in preparing it.  As it all I could do is hope it didn't make me sick

Modifié par iakus, 22 août 2010 - 03:13 .

[William Adama]

Playing ME2 on insanity made me fall in love with the game. It's forcing me to think during combat! Insanity should have been open to the player from the start. Much better gaming experience!

[CatatonicMan]

William Adama wrote...

Playing ME2 on insanity made me fall in love with the game. It's forcing me to think during combat! Insanity should have been open to the player from the start. Much better gaming experience!

What? My very first playthrough was on insanity.

Modifié par CatatonicMan, 22 août 2010 - 04:19 .

[Pocketgb]

iakus wrote...
The problem is, the bar is already raised.  I've played their games before , I know they can do better...

I've yet to see Bioware come even close to topping BG2...

iakus wrote...
But I never see it on screen, not in words or actions.  After the mission, the character is exactly the same as before the mission.

Yeah, **** voice-acting. It costs a lot of money, and it's money that could be much better spent somewhere else. The only VO's I felt were necessary were at the start of vital or stand-out conversations, just so I could get a feel with what I should be imagining in my head (i.e. BG2).

iakus wrote...
Playing ME 2 feels like eating a half-cooked meal.  I just know it could have been much much better if a little more care was made in preparing it.  As it all I could do is hope it didn't make me sick

Same thing was said - and true - about ME1. It doesn't help that its fanbase all want something different.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 22 août 2010 - 04:33 .

[Terror_K]

iakus wrote...

Why is this better than emails?  Because the emails are completely unnecessary.  They're just reminders that  "I did this quest.  I met this person" 

They have no impact on the story, Toombs?  I'd really like to explain things to him, given the threatening lett I received.  I'd hate to have to kill him in self-defense.  Except, I can't reply, which doesn't matter since I never actually see him anyway.

They give no opportunity for character development.   Han Olar, presumably in an institution of some kind, also sends a message I can't respond to (poor guy really needs a friend)

They do not expand the universe in any meaningful way. Dr. Michel wants me and Garrus to stop by and see her on the CItadel.  Well, that may be a problem, given that section of the wards apparantly no longer exists

Some of them don't even make sense. It's nice that Samesh Bhatia opened his restaurant and all, but how'd he get this account?

Yeah. The main problem with the emails are that they are a massive cop-out really. They're kind of nice in a way, but you can see how BioWare used them as the easy way out when it came to your choices in the first game supposedly having a real impact in the second. They wouldn't be so bad if they were in the minority when it came to import stuff, but they're not: most of the import stuff from ME1 is relegated to emails and only emails. I want to visit Dr. Michel with Garrus in ME2. I want to give Emily Wong that exclusive, etc. I don't want to just be teased about it with a shallow email. All emails like that do is show the potential that could have been there.

If they're going to continue this in ME3, it actually would be nice to be able to reply. Alpha Protocol had a system whereby you could respond in different ways and then get a different response our outcome from it depending on your choice and how the person would react to it. I wouldn't mind if ME3 stole this. Then again, overall I'd rather they actually have real consequences and keep the emails to a minimum. Not that there's really many sidequests in ME2 that you could call email worthy. Some of the Illium ones weren't bad, and perhaps Overlord could have something related to it, but the N7 ones were mostly shallow as hell and didn't even involve any interesting NPCs to thank you in the first place.

[Epic777]

Pocketgb wrote...

iakus wrote...
The problem is, the bar is already raised.  I've played their games before , I know they can do better...

I've yet to see Bioware come even close to topping BG2...

iakus wrote...
But I never see it on screen, not in words or actions.  After the mission, the character is exactly the same as before the mission.

Yeah, **** voice-acting. It costs a lot of money, and it's money that could be much better spent somewhere else. The only VO's I felt were necessary were at the start of vital or stand-out conversations, just so I could get a feel with what I should be imagining in my head (i.e. BG2).

iakus wrote...
Playing ME 2 feels like eating a half-cooked meal.  I just know it could have been much much better if a little more care was made in preparing it.  As it all I could do is hope it didn't make me sick

Same thing was said - and true - about ME1. It doesn't help that its fanbase all want something different.

The big problem for bioware is there is a schism in their fanbase between fans of me1 and me2. It will be difficult to produce a product for the fans when said fans are divided.

[PHub88]

Epic777 wrote...

Pocketgb wrote...

iakus wrote...
The problem is, the bar is already raised.  I've played their games before , I know they can do better...

I've yet to see Bioware come even close to topping BG2...

iakus wrote...
But I never see it on screen, not in words or actions.  After the mission, the character is exactly the same as before the mission.

Yeah, **** voice-acting. It costs a lot of money, and it's money that could be much better spent somewhere else. The only VO's I felt were necessary were at the start of vital or stand-out conversations, just so I could get a feel with what I should be imagining in my head (i.e. BG2).

iakus wrote...
Playing ME 2 feels like eating a half-cooked meal.  I just know it could have been much much better if a little more care was made in preparing it.  As it all I could do is hope it didn't make me sick

Same thing was said - and true - about ME1. It doesn't help that its fanbase all want something different.

The big problem for bioware is there is a schism in their fanbase between fans of me1 and me2. It will be difficult to produce a product for the fans when said fans are divided.

Yeah not only that....but for the love of god it annoyed me so badly we couldnt reply to the emails...Whats wrong with a little GTA4 style email reply or what not? even if it was simplistic...it would of been SOMETHING...It really irked the crap out of me I could not respond to emails that I would most certainly....I liked Emily Wong...she was cool...and that was a really cool subplot to basically be her ace in the hole...helping fight the good fight on all fronts...I hated not being able to hook up and give her the scoop like im ME1

[Iakus]

[quote]Pocketgb wrote...
I've yet to see Bioware come even close to topping BG2...[/quote]

Nobody has.  Doesn't mean they shouldnt try though

[quote]iakus wrote...
But I never see it on screen, not in words or actions.  After the mission, the character is exactly the same as before the mission.[/quote]

Yeah, **** voice-acting. It costs a lot of money, and it's money that could be much better spent somewhere else. The only VO's I felt were necessary were at the start of vital or stand-out conversations, just so I could get a feel with what I should be imagining in my head (i.e. BG2).[/quote]

Voice acting aside, the script didn't allow for it either.  I mean, we get one fight between Jack and Miranda.  You'd think Shep would be pulling them apart a lot more often, with maybe fewer fights after their loyalty missions and they've dealt with their personal crises?  Shouldn't Tali react differently to Shepard depending on how her trial went?  Shouldn't Jacob react differently depending on how his mission is resolved?  Shouldn't Zaed's attitude change depending on whether you paragoned or renegaded his mission?  It's not just the voice acting, it's what the actors have to work with. 

It might be easier, or cheaper to do it silently (I for one like silent protagonists).  But the writers have to take some responsibility too.

[quote]iakus wrote...
Playing ME 2 feels like eating a half-cooked meal.  I just know it could have been much much better if a little more care was made in preparing it.  As it all I could do is hope it didn't make me sick [/quote]

Same thing was said - and true - about ME1. It doesn't help that its fanbase all want something different.[/quote]

ME 1 may not the the final word in rpgs, but it still leaves ME 2 in the dust.  All I wanted was a continuation of the first game.  Something to make the games greater than the sum of their parts.

[Iakus]

Terror_K wrote...

Yeah. The main problem with the emails are that they are a massive cop-out really. They're kind of nice in a way, but you can see how BioWare used them as the easy way out when it came to your choices in the first game supposedly having a real impact in the second. They wouldn't be so bad if they were in the minority when it came to import stuff, but they're not: most of the import stuff from ME1 is relegated to emails and only emails. I want to visit Dr. Michel with Garrus in ME2. I want to give Emily Wong that exclusive, etc. I don't want to just be teased about it with a shallow email. All emails like that do is show the potential that could have been there.

Yeah, most of the stuff I got an email from are things that should have simply died quietly.  The rest of the emails should have been the start of a little side quest.  Not even a sidequest,  a few scnes as a bonus for people who played ME 1.  No xp, no credits, no weapons or schematics.  Just a few scenes with a character from the previous game.  A bit of continuity to remind you this is in fact a Mass Effect sequel.  Like the Parassini scene. 

This is why I get a sense of dread when I read about "over 1000 decisions recorded for ME 3"  Gah!  Time to get a new spam filter!

If they're going to continue this in ME3, it actually would be nice to be able to reply. Alpha Protocol had a system whereby you could respond in different ways and then get a different response our outcome from it depending on your choice and how the person would react to it. I wouldn't mind if ME3 stole this. Then again, overall I'd rather they actually have real consequences and keep the emails to a minimum. Not that there's really many sidequests in ME2 that you could call email worthy. Some of the Illium ones weren't bad, and perhaps Overlord could have something related to it, but the N7 ones were mostly shallow as hell and didn't even involve any interesting NPCs to thank you in the first place.

I'm just gonna say "This" to the entire paragraph.  Also, there's a lot in Alpha Protocol, ME could benefit from stealing.

[Terror_K]

iakus wrote...

Voice acting aside, the script didn't allow for it either.  I mean, we get one fight between Jack and Miranda.  You'd think Shep would be pulling them apart a lot more often, with maybe fewer fights after their loyalty missions and they've dealt with their personal crises?  Shouldn't Tali react differently to Shepard depending on how her trial went?  Shouldn't Jacob react differently depending on how his mission is resolved?  Shouldn't Zaed's attitude change depending on whether you paragoned or renegaded his mission?  It's not just the voice acting, it's what the actors have to work with. 

It might be easier, or cheaper to do it silently (I for one like silent protagonists).  But the writers have to take some responsibility too.

Not to mention you bring a gorram geth aboard and Tali doesn't even have a single damn thing to say about it. You just go to her and she talks about the engines or something and that's all. You never see Garrus making a comment on Tali joining up as well, nor do either of them comment about or talk to Kaidan, Ashley, Wrex or Liara when you see them (and visa versa). It's little things like this and the complete lack of dialogue or set-up or interesting NPCs on the N7 quests that just make it feel like ME2 needed some more time in the oven.

Modifié par Terror_K, 22 août 2010 - 05:40 .

[Pocketgb]

iakus wrote...
Nobody has.  Doesn't mean they shouldnt try though

Although it has been almost a decade since it's release...

iakus wrote...
Voice acting aside, the script didn't allow for it either.  I mean, we get one fight between Jack and Miranda.  You'd think Shep would be pulling them apart a lot more often, with maybe fewer fights after their loyalty missions and they've dealt with their personal crises?  Shouldn't Tali react differently to Shepard depending on how her trial went?  Shouldn't Jacob react differently depending on how his mission is resolved?  Shouldn't Zaed's attitude change depending on whether you paragoned or renegaded his mission?  It's not just the voice acting, it's what the actors have to work with. 

Except all of that adds more to the script, which means more voice-acting, which means more money spent. 

If you really want to talk about limitations just look at any of the DA2 threads upset at Hawke being a voiced character, and many of the claims can be applied to the ME series as a whole. I loved the cinematic presentation of both ME1 and 2, but you can definitely feel how the role-playing and depth in general have both been heavily rail-roaded.

iakus wrote...
ME 1 may not the the final word in rpgs, but it still leaves ME 2 in the dust.  All I wanted was a continuation of the first game.  Something to make the games greater than the sum of their parts.

Yeah, and that's what I - me - got, and what others also got. It sucks that there's not enough 'team spirit' going on, but for people who put a lot of emphasis and praise on Bioware's party members we got a pretty tasty treat.

Epic777 wrote...
The big problem for bioware is there is a schism in their fanbase between fans of me1 and me2. It will be difficult to produce a product for the fans when said fans are divided.

That's why I've always felt the decision in attempting to bridge shooters and RPers together was a terrible one. They're the most opposite of game genres.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 22 août 2010 - 05:46 .