10273 réponses à ce sujet

[DeepWater]

Purchasing ME2 in several hours, just thought I could make a point.

There are very few Mass Effect players (strictly speaking of the games, no excess literature or anything) who genuinely care about the story. There aren't enough to really call Bioware out on something like that. Even if there were, what would they do besides give us an even worse explanation for the human reaper in ME3.
You can tell that Bioware noted the whiney audience that complained about the original being too hard, and in turn shifted gameplay around. They catered to an audience that had more priority set into shooting things than paying attention to a storyline.
The thing I thought you guys would be complaining about is the fact that the Collectors come out of no where. A developer like Bioware doesn't make games that crash and burn, they make series. They pretty much knew there would be a sequel in the works. This is why the Collectors could've been hinted at at least several times in the original, without taking focus away from the reaper threat. 

bjdbwea wrote...

I think Saren suddenly standing up once more was not necessary. It made for another more or less challenging fight, but it wasn't needed. The human reaper on the other hand was simply stupid. Instead of providing a good finale to the game, the writers at BioWare provided a bad joke.

I don't understand why the company that has always been renowned for their good stories allowed something like that into the release. But surprisingly enough (or maybe not), many people, including so-called professional reviewers, don't even mind that.

Modifié par DeepWater, 27 août 2010 - 02:45 .

[Sparda Stonerule]

It isn't a bad joke because it's just a machine in the shape of a human. Besides I don't recall anyone calling the first game hard. That's because it isn't. ME 2 isn't very hard either. I agree the Collector thing was more of an oddity than a Human Machine. However the Collectors aren't seen very much, and apparently not many people believe they really exist. Even more notably they usually stick to Terminus Space. It's not like many people talk about the Reapers, or even the Geth when you are walking around the Citadel. People in ME talked about things when they were relevant to a situation. So it may be odd but it isn't a big deal.



Just because you can Meta Game with information you now have doesn't mean it needed to be hinted at. I personally despise it when a game take time to wink at the camera and hint that "Hey this will be your opponent next game, just wanted to make sure you knew that". I know that makes you feel satisfied when you notice that wink and then guess what will happen in the next game. But I don't like being able to guess all the enemies I'm going to be fighting in the next game.

[Sparda Stonerule]

bjdbwea wrote...

I think Saren suddenly standing up once more was not necessary. It made for another more or less challenging fight, but it wasn't needed. The human reaper on the other hand was simply stupid. Instead of providing a good finale to the game, the writers at BioWare provided a bad joke.

I don't understand why the company that has always been renowned for their good stories allowed something like that into the release. But surprisingly enough (or maybe not), many people, including so-called professional reviewers, don't even mind that.

Do you honestly need to look down upon everyone who doesn't agree with you? I mean honestly. You just call into question reviewer credibility and fans intellect so often it gets annoying. I stopped commenting on this thread for awhile because no one was being objective, but even I get annoyed after awhile when all I see is people who were disappointed constantly question the mindset of people who actually liked the game. It's like you honestly believe that there is no way someone rational could possibly like the game and its story. It's like everything you don't like is just a joke and you don't understand why anyone likes it. 

Point is a lot of people liked it, and quite a few didn't. This happens. So instead of just mocking people and the game for things you feel are bad why don't you actually state why you were upset without resorting to mild insults.

I'll start. The only thing that I was disappointed in was that you couldn't drive around planets. I was a little let down that they didn't make the ground travel more entertaining and more diverse and instead just removed it. I want to explore things, but not always the same square space with the same minerals and space debris to check out with the same 3 ground bases. I also did kind of miss the elevators. I guess that's the price we have to pay when there are only over zealous complainers who just insult things instead of trying to be objective and helpful. Oh well hopefully ME 3 will be better for the things we've learned.

[Whatever42]

Actually, the Collectors are mentioned in ME1. They are mentioned by Vigil, although he understandably doesn't call them Collectors. The concept of the Collectors fit perfectly into the ME mythos when you look at what they were doing with Saren.



Sure, they didn't leave ME1 with a Collectors cliff hanger. They decided to wrap up ME1 with few loose threads - perhaps because they weren't certain there would be an ME2. But the existance of the Collectors are certainly referenced, even if Vigil thought they would be all dead.

[DeepWater]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Actually, the Collectors are mentioned in ME1. They are mentioned by Vigil, although he understandably doesn't call them Collectors. The concept of the Collectors fit perfectly into the ME mythos when you look at what they were doing with Saren.

Sure, they didn't leave ME1 with a Collectors cliff hanger. They decided to wrap up ME1 with few loose threads - perhaps because they weren't certain there would be an ME2. But the existance of the Collectors are certainly referenced, even if Vigil thought they would be all dead.

Are you sure? I just beat Mass Effect for the first full time last night, and I remember almost everything from that Vigil discussion.   Either you're wrong or I am forgetful.

I thought the reapers needed non-organic life as their work force.
I haven't actually played ME2 yet, seen more than enough videos and read way too much, but I stopped myself from spoiling why they need the collectors.
Are the collectors organic though?
I can always find out on my own, getting ME2 in several hours.

[Whatever42]

If you've somehow avoided the spoilers, I can't explain it without spoiling it even further. It will make good sense in ME2, about 1/3 of the way through the game.

As to why the Reapers really need the Collectors (they are organic) and organic life, you won't find out until the end of the game.

P.S. the end of ME2 has a lot of information that you need to listen carefully to if you're going to reasonably theorize on what's happening. If you just rush through it for the action (which is pretty easy to do) then it won't make a lot of sense.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 27 août 2010 - 04:04 .

[Mister Mida]

DeepWater wrote...

There are very few Mass Effect players (strictly speaking of the games, no excess literature or anything) who genuinely care about the story. 

... What?

Modifié par Mister Mida, 27 août 2010 - 04:07 .

[Destyre]

Hi all thanks for making this thread. Personally I love the ME universe, and while both games have good points, neither are perfect. I've done 3 playthroughs of ME 1 and 5 of ME2. Here are my personal opinions and maybe suggestions for how it would be better in ME3:

Exploration.
ME2 lacks exploration. The Mako is a huge pain at times to drive around, what with the terrain on planets, but having played ME2 a few times, then gone back to ME1 to make different decisions, I really miss going onto barren planets and driving around. I heard that alot of people hated the fact that all the planets looked so similar, but personally I quite liked everything apart from the actual vehicle that you have to use (although giving each planet a bit of character wouldn't go a miss). The Hammerhead could be better than the Mako, as it can jump over terrain instead of climbing it and bouncing around uncontrollably. In comparison I personally feel claustrophobic in ME2, though the planets are much prettier for sure. (shame you can't explore them is all!) This is one of the things that sets Mass effect apart from the bog standard RPGs out there imo. Sure you can buy starcharts... ALL of them from the same kiosk on the
same planet - which only gives you more places to mine and perhaps do
the odd, very short side mission or two. The planetary mining thing is a joke in my opinion; after you spend a fortune on upgrades you then have to spend ages scanning planets and firing probes before you can use them? Eh?

Item system:
I don't like the item system in either games. In ME1 it was way too cluttered and messy. I know that they changed it for ME2 because of complaints, but did they really have to get rid of it completely? In ME2 the upgrades feel boring, and being unable to buy weapons or armour to equipt you AND your squad mates is a shame. Because you don't loot items, you can't sell items either, so money always feels tight. There is only a limited amount of money in the world to find, afterall, or get from missions, so upgrades just seem like collectables to me. ME2 costumes for team mates... don't like the idea, feels more like a costume party, would rather be able to buy armour for them, or at least assign custom armour like that what you as the player have, to different team mates.

Combat system:
Overall, better in ME2, I personally like reloading clips, but I don't like how little ammo you can carry around for some guns. 10 rounds for a sniper? I'm constantly running out of ammo, even with 1 shot 1 kill tactics, perhaps due to the low drop rate of thermal clips within fights. Perhaps have an ammo system like Battlefield heroes where you reload clips but have infinite ammo stock piles. Except for heavy weapons of course. Or at least increase the amount of ammo that you can carry or the drop rate of thermal clips. The global cooldown of abilities, I'm not sure about. Sure it's faster that the cooldown of ME1 skills, but stops you from doing nice quick combos like lift and throw. I also dont like how some abilities only affect some types of defence. Why cant you lift people with shields or armour? for me by the time i have got armour and shields down, there is little point in lifting or throwing someone when another single shot will finish them off.

Interface:
Overall a bit more intuative in ME2, but the cost of this is it being way too simplistic. The ability to turn off hints would be nice. It's annoying when someone is used to the game but then gets hints like "hold the right mouse button to aim" is plastered over the screen randomly during the experience in the middle of a fight. Also one really annoying thing I find is the Spacebar overuse as an all purpose action key. I remember a point where I held it to run into cover but as I was close to an npc, it opened up dialogue in the middle of a fight. Sometimes it makes me feel that you can get by in this game by pressing a single, giant button. Even gamepads dont need that level of simplicity. Navigating through dialogue quickly is nice, but not when you can accidently select a choice, so maybe space to skip dialogue and ONLY using the mouse to click through choices? Hacking is much better though, so there is that.

Levelling system:
Hate it in ME2, sorry. Each class only has about 4 or 5 skills that they can potentially master, and by the time you get to the (really low) level cap of 30, you're only going to be able to max out 3 skills. When you are an Adept with 7 skills or so, this is really a bad thing. Did I mention the low level cap? And getting experience only after you finish a mission really sucks. It feels way too linear. Even with the side missions that give you a whopping 50 exp points each, you will probably only get a level or two if you combined the exp from all of them in the entire game, making them feel kind of worthless unless you get money or renegade/paragon points. Gaining experience like how you do in ME1 is the way to go.

Story:
Cerberus doing a 180 to become good guys is fine, but the story just doesn't feel very epic. I guess that is because this game is in the middle of a trilogy, but really that's no excuse. Look at the Empire Strikes back, for example. Overall thought the dialogue and B-stories are much better than the first. I remember how annoying it was in ME1 when you'd have different responses to choose from, and when you selected a response, Shepard would say exactly the same thing regardless of what you picked. Yeah the B-stories are great, but I guess the plot mission is a little disappointing. Again, just my opinion there.

Actually come to think of it, I do prefer ME1 overall. Just my opinions of course, but I only say them because I want ME3 to be great and not a watered down, short game like how ME2 feels (it's probably not shorter, but just feels it because of how linear it is). Just feels like it was made for people with short attention spans who can't be bothered to explore or do side missions to gain levels etc - almost like it was made with casual console gamers in mind and ported to the pc at the last minute. (Dare I say, it feels alot more Arcadey?)

The looks and sounds are WAY better in ME2 of course, but that's a given as it is 2 years younger than the first installment and likely a higher budget. And yes, the elevators were a nightmare, so removing them is a vast improvement

Modifié par Destyre, 27 août 2010 - 06:09 .

[bjdbwea]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Do you honestly need to look down upon everyone who doesn't agree with you? I mean honestly. You just call into question reviewer credibility and fans intellect so often it gets annoying. I stopped commenting on this thread for awhile because no one was being objective, but even I get annoyed after awhile when all I see is people who were disappointed constantly question the mindset of people who actually liked the game. It's like you honestly believe that there is no way someone rational could possibly like the game and its story. It's like everything you don't like is just a joke and you don't understand why anyone likes it.

Oh, please. It's okay if you like the game, great for you, but do you honestly think that the human reaper was a good idea? Is that what you call a well written story? Really? As far as I see, the majority even of people who liked the game think that particular "revelation" is a bad joke, or at least badly explained and presented.

Apart from that, of course there are people who like the game, I never denied that. The very reason for all these changes was to make it more appealing to shooter fans and casual gamers. It doesn't really seem to have increased sales numbers, but it's no surprise that the target audience likes the result more than the first part.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 27 août 2010 - 05:51 .

[Whatever42]

bjdbwea wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Do you honestly need to look down upon everyone who doesn't agree with you? I mean honestly. You just call into question reviewer credibility and fans intellect so often it gets annoying. I stopped commenting on this thread for awhile because no one was being objective, but even I get annoyed after awhile when all I see is people who were disappointed constantly question the mindset of people who actually liked the game. It's like you honestly believe that there is no way someone rational could possibly like the game and its story. It's like everything you don't like is just a joke and you don't understand why anyone likes it.

Oh,please. It's okay if you like the game, great for you, but do you honestly think that the human reaper was a good idea? Is that what you call a well written story? Really? As far as I see, the majority even of people who liked the game think that particular "revelation" is a bad joke, or at least badly explained and presented.

Apart from that, of course there are people who like the game, I never denied that. The very reason for all these changes was to make it more appealing to shooter fans and casual gamers. It doesn't really seem to have increased sales numbers, but it's no surprise that the target audience likes the result more than the first part.

People roll their eyes at the human reaper because it looks like the terminator. If you rush through the story and don't think about how things fit together, I can see how it would seem silly. However, the existance of the human reaper fits very well into an interesting ME storyline and it revealed some very interesting facts as well as a clue on how the reapers will be defeated in ME3.

And here is something to think about - although you won't - but since the ME2 numbers aren't higher than the ME1 numbers and since most of those sales happened at or soon after release, most of the ME2 players are actually the same people who played ME1. Since every since forum, poll, and review I have seen has shown an overwhelming approval of ME2, I'm actually going to extrapolate that even RPG fans have very much enjoyed ME2.

Now, I realize that when reality conflicts with your unreserved hate of everything associated with ME2 then reality must be wrong but perhaps you ought to just let it go.

[Mister Mida]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

People roll their eyes at the human reaper because it looks like the terminator. If you rush through the story and don't think about how things fit together, I can see how it would seem silly. However, the existance of the human reaper fits very well into an interesting ME storyline and it revealed some very interesting facts as well as a clue on how the reapers will be defeated in ME3.

I mustn't have been paying attention then but please tell me how the fact that a Reaper tried to make one out of human milkshakes helps in finding a way too defeat the Reapers.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 27 août 2010 - 06:00 .

[VanTesla]

DeepWater wrote...

Purchasing ME2 in several hours, just thought I could make a point.

There are very few Mass Effect players (strictly speaking of the games, no excess literature or anything) who genuinely care about the story. There aren't enough to really call Bioware out on something like that. Even if there were, what would they do besides give us an even worse explanation for the human reaper in ME3.
You can tell that Bioware noted the whiney audience that complained about the original being too hard, and in turn shifted gameplay around. They catered to an audience that had more priority set into shooting things than paying attention to a storyline.
The thing I thought you guys would be complaining about is the fact that the Collectors come out of no where. A developer like Bioware doesn't make games that crash and burn, they make series. They pretty much knew there would be a sequel in the works. This is why the Collectors could've been hinted at at least several times in the original, without taking focus away from the reaper threat. 

bjdbwea wrote...

I think Saren suddenly standing up once more was not necessary. It made for another more or less challenging fight, but it wasn't needed. The human reaper on the other hand was simply stupid. Instead of providing a good finale to the game, the writers at BioWare provided a bad joke.

I don't understand why the company that has always been renowned for their good stories allowed something like that into the release. But surprisingly enough (or maybe not), many people, including so-called professional reviewers, don't even mind that.

You are right and I feel like a fool for not putting that in my post for that was my main dislike about ME2...

Bioware changed story parts from the first Mass Effect game to cater for another type of gamer and blown us off...

The whole story in ME2 with Shepards ressurection, Collectors, Reapers true purpose, and etc just made it poor... I loved the first ME even with it's buggs but ME2 I just don't get the same feel in story and the buggs seem as bad if not worse in some ways...

[VanTesla]

Also why humans for a Reaper.... The other races are far superior in almost every way...



Only reason is because of one human(Shepard) making us look good does not fit logical for a high race.... It's because humans make the game so we are by default the best species to pick...

[Whatever42]

Mister Mida wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

People roll their eyes at the human reaper because it looks like the terminator. If you rush through the story and don't think about how things fit together, I can see how it would seem silly. However, the existance of the human reaper fits very well into an interesting ME storyline and it revealed some very interesting facts as well as a clue on how the reapers will be defeated in ME3.

I mustn't have been paying attention then but please tell me how the fact that a Reaper tried to make one out of human milkshakes helps in finding a way too defeat the Reapers.

Ok, this is pure theorycraft but (spoilers present for our friend who wants to avoid spoilers)

In ME1, Sovereign tells us that every Reaper is a nation.
We know that Reapers have indoctrination fields, which draw organic beings into a group think with the Reaper.

In ME2 we learn that Reapers are partially organic.
We learn that that organic tissue is created from deconstructed humans (not melted or disolved but actually deconstructed) - the actual term they use is ascended (immortality without death - a very specific term)
We know that humans were chosen for some sort of genetic reason (diversity, compatibility, etc)
We also know that the Reapers want Shepard specifically

Why would machines require an organic component? What are these nations of programs? How does the indocrination field fit in? Why do the Reapers want Shepard?

I think these are all clues. I can certainly offer my own theories.

I believe the Collectors are being literal when they say ascended (chopping up DNA doesn't require live people and even a Collector would have to be really stretching to point to call that ascension). I believe that the Reaper sentience is made up of the millions of minds ascended to create it (hence the requirement for organic tissue). I believe that the indoctrination field is used to keep all those minds borg-like in service the the hive mind.

They want Shepard as part of a Reaper (think borg queen).

The key to defeating the Reapers will be defeating the indoctrination field.

Just guesses, of course. Pure speculation. But all those clues have to play in somewhere.

[Mister Mida]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

People roll their eyes at the human reaper because it looks like the terminator. If you rush through the story and don't think about how things fit together, I can see how it would seem silly. However, the existance of the human reaper fits very well into an interesting ME storyline and it revealed some very interesting facts as well as a clue on how the reapers will be defeated in ME3.

I mustn't have been paying attention then but please tell me how the fact that a Reaper tried to make one out of human milkshakes helps in finding a way too defeat the Reapers.

Ok, this is pure theorycraft but (spoilers present for our friend who wants to avoid spoilers)

In ME1, Sovereign tells us that every Reaper is a nation.
We know that Reapers have...
Just guesses, of course. Pure speculation. But all those clues have to play in somewhere.

So this doesn't give us any clues, just stuff to come with new theories.

[Whatever42]

Mister Mida wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

People roll their eyes at the human reaper because it looks like the terminator. If you rush through the story and don't think about how things fit together, I can see how it would seem silly. However, the existance of the human reaper fits very well into an interesting ME storyline and it revealed some very interesting facts as well as a clue on how the reapers will be defeated in ME3.

I mustn't have been paying attention then but please tell me how the fact that a Reaper tried to make one out of human milkshakes helps in finding a way too defeat the Reapers.

Ok, this is pure theorycraft but (spoilers present for our friend who wants to avoid spoilers)

In ME1, Sovereign tells us that every Reaper is a nation.
We know that Reapers have...
Just guesses, of course. Pure speculation. But all those clues have to play in somewhere.

So this doesn't give us any clues, just stuff to come with new theories.

That's what a clue is, isn't it? You spot a muddy foot print by the window - you don't know for sure it belonged to the murder but its a clue. You then try to connect it with other clues and facts.

There are other clues beyond what I mentioned above. The Collectors gave O'Keer the technology to create krogan and imprint memories (kind of what happened to shepard, hrmm....). So we've seen them introduce the technology that would be required for my little theory.

We saw them modify Saren so that they could take full control over him - so they have no problem integrating themselves with organic beings. Those indocrinated talk about how they start to see everything like Saren did.

And in the past, Bioware has dropped clues to revelations. Vigil talked about those we would learn became the collectors. The Collectors were developing a plague that left humans untouched because they had other plans for humanity, which we eventually learned about.

Mark my words, all this will tie into the conclusion in ME3. I have no doubts.

[bjdbwea]

Mister Mida wrote...

So this doesn't give us any clues, just stuff to come with new theories.

That's basically it. Of course you can always speculate and come up with additional explanations to make sense of a story, especially if you're intent on defending it. The problem is: If nothing of it is actually in the story, it doesn't count. So what's there in ME 2 as far as the human reaper concerned, is still a laugable idea, it makes no sense in the given context, it's insufficiently explained and badly presented.

It's actually just another example on the long list of bad writing in the history of video games. The thing is, BioWare were always renowned for providing better writing than most other developers. But the main story of ME 2 feels as if any random developer couldn't have done it much worse.

[Mister Mida]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

People roll their eyes at the human reaper because it looks like the terminator. If you rush through the story and don't think about how things fit together, I can see how it would seem silly. However, the existance of the human reaper fits very well into an interesting ME storyline and it revealed some very interesting facts as well as a clue on how the reapers will be defeated in ME3.

I mustn't have been paying attention then but please tell me how the fact that a Reaper tried to make one out of human milkshakes helps in finding a way too defeat the Reapers.

Ok, this is pure theorycraft but (spoilers present for our friend who wants to avoid spoilers)

In ME1, Sovereign tells us that every Reaper is a nation.
We know that Reapers have...
Just guesses, of course. Pure speculation. But all those clues have to play in somewhere.

So this doesn't give us any clues, just stuff to come with new theories.

That's what a clue is, isn't it? You spot a muddy foot print by the window - you don't know for sure it belonged to the murder but its a clue. You then try to connect it with other clues and facts.

*snip*
Mark my words, all this will tie into the conclusion in ME3. I have no doubts.

I would be surprised if it is.

[Whatever42]

bjdbwea wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

So this doesn't give us any clues, just stuff to come with new theories.

That's basically it. Of course you can always speculate and come up with additional explanations to make sense of a story, especially if you're intent on defending it. The problem is: If nothing of it is actually in the story, it doesn't count. So what's there in ME 2 as far as the human reaper concerned, is still a laugable idea, it makes no sense in the given context, it's insufficiently explained and badly presented.

It's actually just another example on the long list of bad writing in the history of video games. The thing is, BioWare were always renowned for providing better writing than most other developers. But the main story of ME 2 feels as if any random developer couldn't have done it much worse.

If the story ends and that is the case, I will join you for a few days of rabble rousing hate. But the story is not done. I think people like you are the reason hollywood always turns out so much mindless drivel. They think their viewers are idiots and need to be hand-held through simple plots or get too easily lost.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 27 août 2010 - 07:25 .

[Whatever42]

Mister Mida wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
Mark my words, all this will tie into the conclusion in ME3. I have no doubts.

I would be surprised if it is.

Well, it is possible that the Bioware writers are as horrifically bad as some people think. However, we'll have to agree to disagree.

You simply have to look at their past games. They usually have some story arc to the game that plays out - whether its learning that you are the son of a God or a dark jedi master. And just like this game, they drop hints throughout. So far, they seem right on their standard script to me.

Hope we're still trolling these boards when ME3 comes out and I can "I told you so!"

[Iakus]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Ok, this is pure theorycraft but (spoilers present for our friend who wants to avoid spoilers)

In ME1, Sovereign tells us that every Reaper is a nation.
We know that Reapers have indoctrination fields, which draw organic beings into a group think with the Reaper.

In ME2 we learn that Reapers are partially organic.
We learn that that organic tissue is created from deconstructed humans (not melted or disolved but actually deconstructed) - the actual term they use is ascended (immortality without death - a very specific term)
We know that humans were chosen for some sort of genetic reason (diversity, compatibility, etc)
We also know that the Reapers want Shepard specifically

Why would machines require an organic component? What are these nations of programs? How does the indocrination field fit in? Why do the Reapers want Shepard?

I think these are all clues. I can certainly offer my own theories.

I believe the Collectors are being literal when they say ascended (chopping up DNA doesn't require live people and even a Collector would have to be really stretching to point to call that ascension). I believe that the Reaper sentience is made up of the millions of minds ascended to create it (hence the requirement for organic tissue). I believe that the indoctrination field is used to keep all those minds borg-like in service the the hive mind.

They want Shepard as part of a Reaper (think borg queen).

The key to defeating the Reapers will be defeating the indoctrination field.

Just guesses, of course. Pure speculation. But all those clues have to play in somewhere.

While I have my doubts about some of this, I've certainly heard worse theories (my own idea on how to defeat the Reapers is somewhat more...apoloclyptic).  I'm witholding judgement for right now on the human Reaper as a concept.  I'll wait to see what ME 3 reveals before passing final judgement.

 I can say right now, however, that in appearance, it's absolutely ridiculous.  Even worse, it's use in the game, is an embarassment to Bioware.  Just an excuse to show how tough Shepard is by having the player say "OMG I'm going going toe-to-toe with a Reaper!!!  Booyah!"

[Iakus]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Hope we're still trolling these boards when ME3 comes out and I can "I told you so!"

And I wish the same.

No wait, actually, I want to be wrong.  I want to be gravely mistaken and have it all make sense as a trilogy.  I just don't see how it can be done.  Especially if they're effectively winging it from game to game

[Whatever42]

iakus wrote...

While I have my doubts about some of this, I've certainly heard worse theories (my own idea on how to defeat the Reapers is somewhat more...apoloclyptic).  I'm witholding judgement for right now on the human Reaper as a concept.  I'll wait to see what ME 3 reveals before passing final judgement.

 I can say right now, however, that in appearance, it's absolutely ridiculous.  Even worse, it's use in the game, is an embarassment to Bioware.  Just an excuse to show how tough Shepard is by having the player say "OMG I'm going going toe-to-toe with a Reaper!!!  Booyah!"

I agree. The human reaper was far too small for being a reaper, was unoriginal in design, and the fight was a somewhat disappointing finish to what I thought was a very fun last mission. It didn't ruin the game for me or anything but I was pretty "meh".

If the Reaper had to be drawn into it, it should have at least required the Normandy to finish off - something epic.

[bjdbwea]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

If the story ends and that is the case, I will join you for a few days of rabble rousing hate. But the story is not done. I think people like you are the reason hollywood always turns out so much mindless drivel. They think their viewers are idiots and need to be hand-held through simple plots are get too easily lost.

I don't think I'm responsible for the dumbing down of ME 2 though. And actually, the main story is in no way complicated or thought-provoking. It's just dumb.

And "the story is not done" is also no explanation, let alone an excuse. While I'll give you that ME 3 might offer some better explanations for things that happened, and it should, each part of the trilogy has to make sense on its own. This was, for example, certainly the case in the SW series. And BioWare/EA even said themselves that they consider each part of the ME series to be a working stand-alone game. So it's not too much asked to give the explanations that have to be in this game, in this game.

And by the way, I agree with you that past BioWare games had great writing. I just think that apparently their best talents were working on DA and TOR, which might have put the ME 2 team in a difficult position. Hopefully they'll be smart and not discard every criticism as "hate", and instead learn from their mistakes. It's not that hard, if fan fiction writers on the internet can come up with better ideas, they certainly can too.

I would recommend finding a way to "un-explain" the human reaper thing. Write it out of the story somehow, and provide a better explanation for the motives of the reapers.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 27 août 2010 - 07:53 .

[Cadaver19]

http://www.penny-arc...omic/2010/8/20/

/thread