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Disappointment With Mass Effect 2? An Open Discussion.


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#9601
ExtremeOne

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Terror_K wrote...

My main disappointment with the ME2 story is that is so damn removed from the original. When BioWare said they were making an epic sci-fi trilogy with Mass Effect where decisions and choices flow on through each game with real consequences I was expecting a proper trilogy ala Star Wars, The Lord of the Rings, Back to the Future, etc. but instead ME2 is more akin to Aliens, Indiana Jones or Die Hard which really aren't proper trilogies but a series of movies set in the same universe with the only real common thread being the main character and a few rather minor continuity factors.

I think a lot of this comes about because BioWare were too concerned about making each one stand on its own, while with a proper trilogy each part kind of depends on the other parts to function. It's my belief that BioWare should have made the whole thing a proper trilogy and not concerned themselves with making sure each part could stand on its own and that players didn't need to play the previous title(s) to play the next one. The Empire Strikes Back, The Two Towers and Back to the Future: Part II weren't designed to be watched by people who hadn't seen their predecessors and I feel the same should go for the Mass Effect series, and that it's suffered because it hasn't done that.

ME2 feels like most of the stuff from the first game simply didn't matter, and it doesn't help that seemingly major things like you being a Spectre and what happened with The Council are just pushed aside and just don't seem to effect anything any more. It's a bit like if Luke went to see Yoda and was simply told, "you don't need to learn the ways of the force at all. It matters not." It doesn't help that things like The Collectors weren't even alluded to at all in ME1 (at least Cerberus and The Terminus Systems were I guess).

I think the game also has its priorities mixed up. It's supposed to be about The Collectors as well as recruiting squaddies for the suicide mission, but The Collectors take the back-seat by a huge amount compared to the squaddies and their issues, since each one (aside from the DLC characters) has two issues to deal with. As others have mentioned, they're too disconnected from the main plot, with Mordin being the only one directly linked to it (some would say Miranda and Jacob are, but even they're just Cerberus babysitters from TIM for the most part). They don't really weigh in on anything and just come across as collecting cannon fodder. The Collectors should be the main focus since they're the only real link to the original game we have as far as main plot goes because of the Reaper connection. In ME1 there were at least connections to the main plot for each character (except maybe Kaidan) with Ashley being on Eden Prime with the first Geth attack, Garrus heading Saren's investigation, Tali with info on Saren, Wrex having dealt with him before, Liara being Saren's number 2's daughter and The Geth trying to capture her, etc.

   



EA did the right thing in making the game more appealing to people. Plus Bioware told everyone about the changes even before the game come out. now all this whining and complaining is come out for the simple reason its not like Mass Effect 1 so its nothing but sh*t now. you Mass Effect 1 fans need to just suck it up and deal with the fact that Mass Effect 2 is a good game with good game play. yeah the story sucks but hey all video game stories suck. If Bioware did not have to spend time worring about stupid fan favorite characters from ME 1 that had no real role being in ME 2 , Then yeah we might have gotten a better story. 

#9602
SithLordExarKun

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Justicar wrote...

I find it amazing that people think complaining will actually make a difference.

Why complain? Play a better game, maybe?


FLAME SHIELD [ON] OFF

Can't blame them, apparantly their entire life revolves around relentlessly bashing one game and they don't have any thing else productive to do.

This may sound hypocritical when i say that, but i can't be bothered with defending the game, sure i like it better than the first and as much as Dragon Age, sure that there are things that did dissappoint me, but i steadily move on with life, go to parties, work out, weekly meet my friends either going clubbing or hanging out or simply doing something productive. I don't spend whatever free time i have bashing a game and listing my dissappointments because it accomplishes nothing, like i said there are things i want them to change, but if they don't listen, whats complaining going to do?

#9603
Terror_K

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Lumikki wrote...

After reading this thread about 300 pages, I think many of you have lost your way.

One is expectation, as taste of games, like but I wanted it to be this or that. What is fine as long it has strong support here without major disagreement. Because if there is disagreement it's just personal taste and other disagree because they have different taste. One taste isn't better than other.

Other issue is going to smallest details and lost the big picture. Meaning complains are comming more like slam every smallest detail there is to complain, but in the end what is really important for someones gameplay enjoyment is lost. There is different as what could be improved and what is game breaker issue.

I would suggest your people to make list of issues and see how much support every issue gets. Not to go around and around as talking same stuff over and over. Last 300 page has not sayed much anything new what was sayed before it. Many constructive arguments what is wrong, is lost here for this continues small detail "whining" as why can't the game be like I want.


It's not about taste in games so much as a game remaining consistent within its own series. I'm a fan of shooters as well... in fact, my favourite game of all time is a shooter with next to no story whatsoever. But that doesn't mean when I play Mass Effect that I want to be playing that type of game. If I went to see a sequel to Blade Runner at the theatre and got a full on comedy instead of a dark sci-fi drama I'd be disappointed. It's not that I don't like comedies, but that's not why I went to see a Blade Runner movie. And when I go to see the second part of a trilogy I expect to see the second part of a trilogy that does justice to the bit that came before it, not something that has almost nothing to do with the original part and makes everything that seemed significant in it seem meaningless.

ME2's problems don't lie so much in the fact that it is the type of game it is, but instead in the fact that it's not much like its predecessor. It doesn't feel like a game that was made for fans of the first, more like a game that was made to appeal to a different audience primarily but with just enough factors left over to try and keep the old fans as well. It's like the devs tried to make it the bare minimum amount of Mass Effect to still be considered Mass Effect and changed everything else. The whole thing reminds me a lot of these modern Hollywood reboots of classic movies or TV series' to a certain degree, because in some ways it feels more like one of them than a proper sequel. It's got that whole "retooled by the Network for today's target demographic" vibe to it. ME1 felt like Wrath of Khan or Search for Spock, while ME2 feels like Nemesis or J.J. Abrams Star Trek movie. Or for the oldies, the difference between the first seasons and the second seasons of Buck Rogers and Space 1999.

Modifié par Terror_K, 30 août 2010 - 09:09 .


#9604
Lumikki

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Thinking that ME2 is not sequel to ME1, because something is different in those game. It's about what you value in games as what is your taste of games. You say it's changed, because you value something in the game what has changed. How ever, what is changed isn't neccassary valued so much someone else.

Let me use my self as example. I like both ME1 and ME2 equal much, even if some gameplay design is different.

I know that they have "little" different style in some stuff, but the main point what ME serie is, is still there in both games for me. It's cinematic action adventure roleplaying game with voice acting and dialogs. Just because both games has they own issues, doesn't mean one game is only for me, while other isn't. Now how it's possible that I can like both games, if both games are for different target of customers. I'm not saying that they aren't for little bit that, but in end it's everyones taste of games. If your taste of games is so narrow that you can't like both of them, because some part of game is different, then it's still your own game taste what makes that limit.

My point, you are looking what's different and think that's important. While I look what's similar and ask, is this the main thing in Mass Effect series or the stuff what's different. My answer is, what's different isn't what Mass Effects are, but what's similar in both games. Mass Effect soul isn't in the small design details differences, but in the big picture.

Modifié par Lumikki, 30 août 2010 - 09:40 .


#9605
Terror_K

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Again, my tastes aren't narrow because I like many different types of game. But I want some consistency between two games that are supposed to be essentially the same and when I play certain genres of games I like to see certain things.



For example, right now I'm playing Batman: Arkham Asylum and having loads of fun. It's a great game, but that doesn't mean I want to see Mass Effect 3 be like it. I also enjoyed Gears of War, but that doesn't mean I wanted to see Mass Effect 2 become it. If I order a pizza to be delivered and the delivery boy turns up with burgers instead I'm going to be disappointed, not because I don't like burgers but because I ordered a pizza.



It's the same thing, and that's why while I'll admit that ME2 is a good game, I don't in any way think it's a good sequel. Kind of like how the series Enterprise might have been good if it wasn't trying to be Star Trek.



On top of it all when you think the second part isn't as good as the first and you can see why and see where the mistakes were made, you can't help but want to point them out and want the next part to not suffer the same mistakes. If I make a wrong turn on the road in my car and I'm heading for a cliff I'm not just going to leave the car to its own devices and hope it all turns out alright, I'm going to do my best to get it back to safety. I'd rather be on a slightly bumpy road that makes me happy than a generally smoother one with the odd pothole that just gets worse the further I go.



To me Mass Effect 1 was a generally solid game with about four or five fairly big issues that could have used a little fine-tuning. Mass Effect 2 is more like a game with no massive issues, but just a whole lot of really small and annoying ones that add up to make the whole thing less than spectacular. ME1 is akin to having a guy turn up at your house once every six months to kick you in the testicles, while ME2 is like constantly being bitten by ants for one hour every day.

#9606
Lumikki

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Yeah, but it's you own expectation what Mass Effect series should be. Take it as what Mass Effect serie is and not try to change it what you expect it to be. If You can enjoy wide range of games, but can't admid that you made mistake as expecting Mass Effcet serie be something what it wasn't, then that's your own issue, not games.

Example.

You go fast food restorant and buy Pizza. Next time you come and notice they sell hamburgers. If You expected that fast food restorant sells only Pizza's, that was you mistake. Same way you expect Mass Effect to be sertain style what it isn't, because you look only details what you like in the game and miss the big picture what Mass Effect serie is.

In simple way sayed, you love to traditional RPG and expecting ME1 story to be continued in ME2 way you wanted, is preventing to you fully enjoy ME2.

Modifié par Lumikki, 30 août 2010 - 10:09 .


#9607
bjdbwea

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ME 1 set the standard. We weren't expecting anything but a successor to the first game of the trilogy. Instead, BioWare produced a reset and very different game.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 30 août 2010 - 10:11 .


#9608
Terror_K

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Lumikki wrote...

Yeah, but it's you own expectation what Mass Effect series should be. Take it as what Mass Effect serie is and not try to change it what you expect it to be. If You can enjoy wide range of games, but can't admid that you made mistake as expecting Mass Effcet serie be something what it wasn't, then that's your own issue, not games.

Example.

You go fast food restorant and buy Pizza. Next time you come and notice they sell hamburgers. If You expected that fast food restorant sells only Pizza's, that was you mistake.

Same way you expect Mass Effect to be sertain style what it isn't, because you look only details what you like in the game and miss the big picture what Mass Effect serie is.

In simple way sayed, you love to traditional RPG and expecting ME1 story to be continued in ME2 way you wanted, is preventing to you fully enjoy ME2.


But the series can't even decide within itself what it wants to be. I drew my expectation from what the first game was like because it set the standard, as well as how it was described and the claims from the devs as to what the entire trilogy would be, but then the second one comes along and turns it all upside down. There is no real big picture to what the Mass Effect series is because the two halves we have thus far are so different from each other.

It's not my fault that the devs decided to change what Mass Effect was to appeal to a wider audience. I expected Mass Effect to be something other than it was because before ME2 came along it was what I expected, and then ME2 changed and warped Mass Effect into something different. How am I supposed to gel with something that can't even seem to find its own feet?

On top of it all, I don't fully enjoy ME2 because there's just a lot of things in there I consider to be bad game design from the start. ME1 suffers from these problems too, but to me they're more a case of a bunch of good ideas with poor execution. ME2 on the other hand just has a whole bunch of bad ideas. It's still a good game, but I've known BioWare for making games that, while flawed, are more than the sum of their parts. ME2 failed to be this, and failed to be anything special. Its gameplay is generic and plain and there's not enough good things to forgive the bad.

ME1 felt like it was trying to bring some complexity to a generally simple genre, while ME2 feels like it's trying to bring simplicity to something that should normally be more complex. A lot of the best action games these days are the ones that have added RPG elements and that's a step forward. ME2 felt like it was doing the opposite, which is a step backwards. And the problem is when you've got RPGs continually becoming more action-oriented and simple and action games becoming more complex you just end up getting this brown mush where all games end up being essentially the same and variety goes out the window. Soon genres will be meaningless as everything just becomes a "story-driven action game with RPG elements" because that's what happens when all the game developers keep going for the same market over and over for the big bucks instead of producing varied and different products for different tastes.

#9609
tonnactus

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bjdbwea wrote...

ME 1 set the standard. We weren't expecting anything but a successor to the first game of the trilogy. Instead, BioWare produced a reset and very different game.

Right.No one would complain if this game would be a spin-off and not advertised to have as much rpg as a shooter.

#9610
Lumikki

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You base your standard as what you want Mass Effect series to be, based what you liked in ME1. Meaning you put values what you liked in ME1, but that doesn't mean those are same values what game developers or some other players has for Mass Effect series. So, you seeing the two game as "totally" different style of game is just based what you WANT to see, because those detail parts what you liked are important for YOU. How ever, not everyone see's Mass Effect series as you do and those for you important parts may not be important for some other players.

What I'm trying to say you view point is valid for you, but not everyone has same way to look Mass Effect series as you do.

Now did ME2 simplify the gameplay variety too much. In my opinion they did. Problem isn't that we can't agree with that.  Problem is that, what was simplified too much, what requires more variety and what doesn't. There is where we can't find agreement. Because some variety is just illusion of variety and not real variety for players. Also some variety doesn't make gameplay better, it can also make it worst.

If You want to talk traditional RPG's flaws and it's complexity, I can tell alot of about it, after playing allmost 20 years of traditional RPG. Now remember ability roleplay in games is not same as traditional RPG.

Modifié par Lumikki, 30 août 2010 - 11:37 .


#9611
bjdbwea

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You keep repeating the same thing: We have an opinion, and others have different opinions. We know that. Posting opinions and perhaps discussing them is the very idea of a forum such as this.

At least you don't deny that lot has changed. So you certainly agree that ME 2 is not really a successor, regardless of whether someone thinks that's a good or a bad thing? Some of the most ardent ME 2 defenders even insisted it's pretty much unchanged from ME 1.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 30 août 2010 - 11:43 .


#9612
Lumikki

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I agree some of your people complains as long they are "reasonable". What is reasonable, is depending everyones own opinions and how they see the game serie. I also agree many of changes what was made, good or bad. How ever, sometimes stuff are like you sayed me to saying, what I keep saying, taste of games nothing more.

In my opinion ME2 is successor for ME1. Also if Bioware says it's successor, then that's it, it's they game, they should know it.

Modifié par Lumikki, 30 août 2010 - 12:00 .


#9613
bjdbwea

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Lumikki wrote...

In my opinion ME2 is successor for ME1. Also if Bioware says it's successor, then that's it, it's they game, they should know it.


So if someone sells you a car with only three wheels and tells you it's better that way - or better yet: tries to convince you it's in fact four wheels - you just accept it and hand over the money?

#9614
Lumikki

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No, I buy the car if I THINK it's better, but I don't stop buying the 3 wheel car just because you say it's not better or worst. Nor I care if someone says car has 6 wheels, I look my self and don't trust others. If you believe others and buy something what you did not like, then it was your mistake. No point to blame others by your own bad judgements.

Example: You go shop to buy car, what has 5 wheels and person tells it's better than 4 wheels car. Lesson, sometimes having something more can make it worst.

Modifié par Lumikki, 30 août 2010 - 12:25 .


#9615
brfritos

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ExtremeOne wrote...

EA did the right thing in making the game more appealing to people. Plus Bioware told everyone about the changes even before the game come out. now all this whining and complaining is come out for the simple reason its not like Mass Effect 1 so its nothing but sh*t now. you Mass Effect 1 fans need to just suck it up and deal with the fact that Mass Effect 2 is a good game with good game play. yeah the story sucks but hey all video game stories suck. If Bioware did not have to spend time worring about stupid fan favorite characters from ME 1 that had no real role being in ME 2 , Then yeah we might have gotten a better story. 


Well, Fallout 1 & 2 are very different games from each other and albeit FO2 was highly praised, is also very hated from a lot of original FO1 fans.

Change is good, I like ME2, but I wish they continued the story and events from the first one, instead of rebooting the series.
If you compare facts about the two games, there's a lot of discrepancies.
Take Cerberus, for instance: in the first game they were a terrorist group and now are a recognized "second army", with uniforms, insignias in the ships, etc.

This create a lot of contradictions, just like FO1 & 2 created.
And the sales of this games reflected this.

We need to wait 10 years to have another good Fallout, since FO Tatics and FO:BoS are really average games, the references in the story were all changed from game to game.
And there are good games with good story, like Prince of Persia.
Recreating everything, instead of correcting what is wrong waste the opportunity to learn from your mistakes.
There's a lot of things that don't quite work in ME2, so Bioware will have to refine them (again!) in next game.

The sales of ME2 reflect this also, they have even to recreate the fan base again.
I see people crying out loud "ME2 sales reach 2 million copies, F-YOU ME1 fans", but this is roughlly the sales of ME1, a three year old game.
And this is sucess?
Even Starcraft 2 put the sales of January to March of ME2 in a pocket (1.6 million) only in 48 hours
And it's a PC-only game!

I don't know if the move worked like they intended.
Oh yeah, they are making money, but I can make a lot of money too, selling pizza for example.

#9616
Whatever42

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Since most ME2 sales were in the first month, I'm assuming that most buyers were ME1 fans - not some recreated base. And judging from feedback on sites such as gamespot, they seem very happy with it. If anything, I think Bioware hasn't really reached beyond their base, even with the changes.



And you can't compare ME2 with Starcraft. Every Korean alone will buy 2 copies. That game will end up selling 10+ million easily. But a big part of that, we all know very well, is the multiplayer. Thats why I think Bioware will take what they've learned from TOR and their next RPG series will allow multiplayer roleplay.

#9617
Necroscope84

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.....This one time at Mass Effect 2 Camp.........

#9618
tonnactus

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Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...


And you can't compare ME2 with Starcraft. Every Korean alone will buy 2 copies. That game will end up selling 10+ million easily. But a big part of that, we all know very well, is the multiplayer. Thats why I think Bioware will take what they've learned from TOR and their next RPG series will allow multiplayer roleplay.


Multiplayer dont mean automatically higher sales.Killzone has multiplayer and dont come even near halo.

#9619
Vargeisa

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My only disappointment with ME2 was the loyalty system, unfortunately it's a rather big disappointment seeing as it took up most of the game. Game mechanics like that should be running in the background and not be the entire focus of the game.
I would have preferred it if they skipped all the loyalty missions and replaced them with missions that actually had to do with the main story. Put an approval system in instead where the squad members gain or lose loyalty depending on the decisions Shepard makes.

And let the squadmembers that aren't loyal take a shuttle off of the Normandy before going through the Omega 4 relay.
That way loyalty would have actually made sense. (squadmembers aren't going to be fighting for their survival if Shepard didn't help them with their daddy issue?)
Shepard pissed off all the tech experts and he's got none left on the suicide mission? Good, he's screwed.

I understand, get squad member, do mission, squad member is loyal, is a lot simpler to implement. But the mechanic is so obvious when playing the game it takes away from the experience for me. Again, the focus should have been on the story, not on the loyalty system.

That being said, the game is still very entertaining. Only it's more like having a lot of tasty snacks to eat instead of a good homecooked meal.

#9620
Bourne Endeavor

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ExtremeOne wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

My main disappointment with the ME2 story is that is so damn removed from the original. When BioWare said they were making an epic sci-fi trilogy with Mass Effect where decisions and choices flow on through each game with real consequences I was expecting a proper trilogy ala Star Wars, The Lord of the Rings, Back to the Future, etc. but instead ME2 is more akin to Aliens, Indiana Jones or Die Hard which really aren't proper trilogies but a series of movies set in the same universe with the only real common thread being the main character and a few rather minor continuity factors.

I think a lot of this comes about because BioWare were too concerned about making each one stand on its own, while with a proper trilogy each part kind of depends on the other parts to function. It's my belief that BioWare should have made the whole thing a proper trilogy and not concerned themselves with making sure each part could stand on its own and that players didn't need to play the previous title(s) to play the next one. The Empire Strikes Back, The Two Towers and Back to the Future: Part II weren't designed to be watched by people who hadn't seen their predecessors and I feel the same should go for the Mass Effect series, and that it's suffered because it hasn't done that.

ME2 feels like most of the stuff from the first game simply didn't matter, and it doesn't help that seemingly major things like you being a Spectre and what happened with The Council are just pushed aside and just don't seem to effect anything any more. It's a bit like if Luke went to see Yoda and was simply told, "you don't need to learn the ways of the force at all. It matters not." It doesn't help that things like The Collectors weren't even alluded to at all in ME1 (at least Cerberus and The Terminus Systems were I guess).

I think the game also has its priorities mixed up. It's supposed to be about The Collectors as well as recruiting squaddies for the suicide mission, but The Collectors take the back-seat by a huge amount compared to the squaddies and their issues, since each one (aside from the DLC characters) has two issues to deal with. As others have mentioned, they're too disconnected from the main plot, with Mordin being the only one directly linked to it (some would say Miranda and Jacob are, but even they're just Cerberus babysitters from TIM for the most part). They don't really weigh in on anything and just come across as collecting cannon fodder. The Collectors should be the main focus since they're the only real link to the original game we have as far as main plot goes because of the Reaper connection. In ME1 there were at least connections to the main plot for each character (except maybe Kaidan) with Ashley being on Eden Prime with the first Geth attack, Garrus heading Saren's investigation, Tali with info on Saren, Wrex having dealt with him before, Liara being Saren's number 2's daughter and The Geth trying to capture her, etc.

   



EA did the right thing in making the game more appealing to people. Plus Bioware told everyone about the changes even before the game come out. now all this whining and complaining is come out for the simple reason its not like Mass Effect 1 so its nothing but sh*t now. you Mass Effect 1 fans need to just suck it up and deal with the fact that Mass Effect 2 is a good game with good game play. yeah the story sucks but hey all video game stories suck. If Bioware did not have to spend time worring about stupid fan favorite characters from ME 1 that had no real role being in ME 2 , Then yeah we might have gotten a better story. 


You really must remove the fanboy/girl googles because they are clouding your ability for rational thought. No one has specifically stated ME2 is garbage. The widely agreed opinion is it is a poor sequel, a step up from your Final Fantasy 'sequel' yet not remotely what was promised by Bioware years ago upon the original game's release. Such is precisely the reason numerous people are somewhat ticked. Bioware claimed this would be a trilogy, an epic tale of Shepard's advantage to save galatic space from the impending invasion of the Reapers. Furthermore, our decisions would have consequences weighing in through all three games. Ultimately, the failed miserably in many ways to deliever what they had promised on.

The story is decent, the loyalty missions are especially touching and a good exercise in character development that was somewhat absent from the originally. That being said, where it fell flat was in execution of the primary antagonist and the horrendously cliche opening. The Collectors had significant potential, if they had a purpose. Say they were targeting the Alliance and Cerberus was under suspicion of being involved. Shepard discovers proof of the Collectors and/or Reaper involvement and is forced to cooperate with Cerberus. This leads to wanes in loyalty due to his agreement to work for them.

Obviously that is a rough draft however the basic premise is there. No cheesy "OMG Shepard died!" nonsense, and above all it ties into the first game. The Alliance with Shepard at the forefront, defeated Soverign. It would be logical for Harbringer and/or the Collectors to target both. Weigh in how for the first time in millions of years, someone halted their invasion. We could even have the Collector General; a Prothean, not be completely under Harbringer's domination and is leading Shepard forward. Maybe that is the tie in for why he would assist TIM and Cerberus. Instead we are left with a primary antagonist with minimal explanation and a legion of sidequests to make up a storyline.

The continuality is laughable. No one is demanding Bioware present every single clip from the first game into the second. A handful like what happened with Gianna Parasini. It was literally a minute or two of dialgue, yet a genuine sense of closure. She gave me my beer. It was minimal, it was subtle, it was what we wanted in a sequel for a portion of the game that was brief in Mass Effect. The larger decisions, like the Rachni, Wrex, the Council, Virmire and your romance should have been significant in some manner. If they wish to leave the Rachni for ME3, fine. Wrex should have been a squadmate as far as I am concerned. If the extra work required to make him one was too grand, do not make it possible to kill him in the first game. Those aforementioned events scream "Oh... bloody hell, what do we do now?!" It was as though Bioware realized they could not deliver and copped out instead.

Gameplay wise, you know, I actually fancy ME2's system. Granted, I found ME's relatively solid. Regardless, the qualm I have with ME2 is surprisingly minimal in this area. The lack of versatility in your options. I could toss a large variety of powers in ME, yet in ME2 I have noticable limitations. This may not be such a glaring issue if not for the universal cooldowns, which have essentially left me to Charge everything in sit as a Vanguard or just shoot stuff until I am able to. The overabundance of cover and a duck and cover could be toned down a tad to make ambushes more akin to an ambush. What I do find irritating is ammo and Unity being limited. In ME I used the Shotgun exclusively, it was my Shepard's weapon of choice. Now I am more than welcoming to a balancing factor to force usage of a sidearm however in ME2 I can barely pick up the Shotgun due to the horrid diminished ammo capacity it has. Suppose if I dropped down from Hardcore this would be remedied, yet blowing through weak enemies somewhat hinders the enjoyment.

Overall, Mass Effect 2 accomplished something Bioware set out to do. It is a good standalone game, plenty of potential for development and with slight reworking, could have very well been it's own game. It is however a poor sequel and surprisingly weak second act.

Now when you claim "It is better to appeal to everyone!" you are only citing your portion of the video gaming genre; the FPS types. The RPG fans are less thrilled with these changes. So in reality, Bioware has not appealed to everyone. They have appealed to an audience that always seems to get whatever they want. No offense to FPS fans, I know not all of you are like this, however is the recent years it seems as though your genre is the spoiled child of the gaming world. You have everything, and yet you want more.

You want a fair compromise? We keep your gameplay style, perhaps minor improvements -more abilities, overheating instead of ammo - nothing major. In return, we receive our epic sequel, our driven roleplaying experience rich in character development and dialogue that would make an encyclopedia weep. We have Wrex and Zaeed chat about their mercenary adventures, Garrus and Shepard talk about the past and continued Student/Teacher partnership. We see Ash/Kaiden for a handful of scenes, or they are apart of the crew. The Collectors are given character, development. We have a novel of story and interaction between Shepard and his crew, between the crew itself and we have Shepard have to deal with personal choices.

Oh! One more thing, because I know how much most shooter fans detest dialogue of this magnitude. We give you a skip button, better yet, a whole scene skip button! Yes, you can skip right to the action by simply clicking likes say the Back/Select Button. Free of charge. So how about it? Sounds good to me.

#9621
bjdbwea

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@ Bourne Endeavor

Great post. I agree with almost everything that you said. And I especially like your compromise.

That's exactly what BioWare would do if they were serious about pleasing (almost) everyone: Implement a good combat system, but also the other things that are important for an RPG - exploration, progression, customization, dialogue, depth, choices, a proper story. Just make as much of it skippable or optional as possible. That way, they can still please and sell to the shooter fans without producing just another pew-pew game and sacrificing most of what made their previous games great.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 30 août 2010 - 09:25 .


#9622
FataliTensei

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bjdbwea wrote...

@ Bourne Endeavor

Great post. I agree with almost everything that you said. And I especially like your compromise.

That's exactly what BioWare would do if they were serious about pleasing (almost) everyone: Implement a good combat system, but also the other things that are important for an RPG - exploration, progression, customization, dialogue, depth, choices, a proper story. Just make as much of it skippable or optional as possible. That way, they can still please and sell to the shooter fans without producing just another pew-pew game and sacrificing most of what made their previous games great.


This ^

I'd even be able to handle how generic combat is in ME2 if they had implemented everything else right.

Modifié par FataliTensei, 30 août 2010 - 09:28 .


#9623
Whatever42

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If I were to say it was widely agreed upon that it was a great sequel, I could point to reviews and forums like gamespot, where hundreds of players have voted the game a 9.2 rating.

So I assume that when you say it is widely agreed upon that it is a poor sequel, you can point to similar evidence? Or is your point strictly about continuity? I don't disagree that there was a reboot to some degree or that I would enjoy more party chatter but that hardly makes for a poor sequel.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 30 août 2010 - 09:52 .


#9624
Whatever42

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tonnactus wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...


And you can't compare ME2 with Starcraft. Every Korean alone will buy 2 copies. That game will end up selling 10+ million easily. But a big part of that, we all know very well, is the multiplayer. Thats why I think Bioware will take what they've learned from TOR and their next RPG series will allow multiplayer roleplay.


Multiplayer dont mean automatically higher sales.Killzone has multiplayer and dont come even near halo.


Agreed. It will have to be done well, no doubt. The system in TOR looks very interesting - leaps and bounds above the whole henchmen system in BG2. And even then, will roleplayers really care about multiplayer? I know I don't. But I'm still predicting that they'll try it - not that I'm going out on a limb. There has been buzz about it for months.

#9625
Bourne Endeavor

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Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

If I were to say it was widely agreed upon that it was a great sequel, I could point to reviews and forums like gamespot, where hundreds of players have voted the game a 9.2 rating.

So I assume that when you say it is widely agreed upon that it is a poor sequel, you can point to similar evidence? Or is your point strictly about continuity? I don't disagree that there was a reboot to some degree or that I would enjoy more party chatter but that hardly makes for a poor sequel.


More so the latter, it would depend upon your definition of a sequel. If you believe they should follow a continuing storyline, then there is no denying Mass Effect 2 is a poor sequel. If a few vague references to the predecessor is satisfying, then I suppose it would be appealing.

I could also point to that very forum and this thread, where Mass Effect 2 is not cited as a good sequel. Simply because it received good reviews, does not necessarily mean it was a worthy sequel. ME2 is a solid and entertaining game, hence the praise. It is a weak sequel and there little way in denying this unless you follow the abovementioned. A sequel should be a continuation of the predecessor, further developing the story, characters and world. ME2 did little in that respect, disregarding the Citadel, the Council and a large portion of what established Mass Effect. I would have rathered not had any say in the Council, Wrex or whatnot and seen development than them tossed aside due to simple laziness in development.