10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Terror_K]

Lumikki wrote...

What postive factor has weapon what is worst than any you other weapon you have. It is the cockroach as I call junk item.

Except that one needs at least a few junk items to actually make the good items seem good. When every weapon is rare and special, none of them are. ME2's method  is basically like if you took ME1 and eliminated all but the Spectre Weapons and whatever the next best ones are in each weapon category and that's all you have. The Spectre weapons suddenly seem less special when they make up half of the total weapons pool. Rare and special items are only made as such when there's common and regular items to compare them to.

Also, I thought you were referring to the cockroaches as an equivalent of the inventory system overall. Sure... nixing a few problems within the infected overall entity is fine, but that's not what BioWare did: they threw out the entire thing and started from scratch, replacing it with an overly simple solution that isn't broken because it doesn't have enough moving parts any more to break in the first place.

[Lumikki]

I ques, I just disagree then, we don't go anywhere with this. Induvidual item loot system will NEVER be good in my eyes. It doesn't matter what you do. It's imposible situation. Because more variety you want more problem you start having. Less problem you want less variety you have. That's the inventory systems problem. Only REAL way to make it better is make sure every item is different enough in gameplay feel. Meaning sword +1 and +2 isn't different they are just same sword as upgraded. You don't need to have every possible upgrade as induvidual combination in your inventory. You need just one different enough base item and then allow customate it.

Modifié par Lumikki, 01 septembre 2010 - 02:06 .

[Zrmurray85]

First off, just as many others I'm sure agree, I loved both ME1 and ME2. The overall experience of both more then makes up for any minor flaws and I know that no matter what form ME3 it will be amazing!

With that said there were some things in ME2 that I felt could have been a little better. I'll break it down to keep this easier to read and hopefully less repetative:

Short Version:

Make it more adult and more rpg and I'm sold!

Roleplaying vs. First-Person Shooter:

One of my main disappointment with ME2 is that it seems that more emphasis was placed on ease of gameplay and battle mechanics. Don't get me wrong, this was definitely needed, but I feel that too much was given up to make that possible. The story seemed to take back-seat at times, and it just feels like there could have been a better balance.

Missing roleplaying aspects:

The inability to talk with party members when you wanted to, and only when given a prompt specific to location, it just make the rpg aspects feel restrictive and this really makes it hard to be immersed into the game play.

Also a lack of just straight up exploring to deepen the world. I understand why so many wanted the mako gone, but I feel that if they could through in a few more random encounters to make things more fleshed out. Not everything needs to be about battle.

Romances:

let me first say that a I loved that there were so many more available romance options!  The ability to have a chance with carry over characters from ME1, as well as new options, just really make this part of the game awesome.

My only complaint is that after a point most of the relationships hit a dead end and nothing else was really done. Why not through in additional options as far as what you can do with romance partners? I'm not talking full on dating sim, though really why not?, but things like going on dates, learning more about the other person, meeting family, heck even fights, little things like that we do in real life that make a relationship seem more deep.

Toning things down for PC factor:

First of all, the relationship finallies. They were nice and all, but nothing compared to ME1. I understand that after the media firestorm that erupted with the first game they probably felt compelled to tone things down, but I know that ME1 proved that sex scenes and real relationships if done tastefully can be something beautiful and not trashy. I'm not saying pornographic cut scene's or anything, but if anything a return to ME1 style would be better then what was done in ME2. Think about it, even in pg13 movies are more spicy then that! If this game is rated MA, mature and for adults, then I think it stands to reason that the game can follow the same line as an R rated movie as long as things are kept tasteful.

The same can be said for adult themes as far as action and gameplay. While not nearly as restrained as the relationship part of the game, I still feel that a darker look into the realities of war, betrayel,  and lies would make this game far more realistic. I'm all for gritty realism!

General thoughts on ME3 and changes between ME1 and ME2:

Bring back the mako, just make it easier to get around. Maybe allow for use to choose the drop point.

Bring back the elevator loading scenes or some variant. Sure they could be repetative and boring, but anything beats a static screen that doesn't add anything to the game. At least they helped add to the story by allowing crew mates to talk to eachother.

Bring back more armor customization. Sure we don't need a million choices, But the ability to really make your and your crews equipment unique just adds to the worlds depth. Make some items only usable if earned, and then make those items effect how other see you. Lets say you complete some chain of missions you get a particular armor decoration. When Ncp's see this they react differently from normal and comment on it. This will help to bring in a higher level of acheivement.

Come up with something better then planet mining for upgrades.

Let us go everywhere! in the ME1 we got consel space, in ME2 we got the terminus system. In ME3 let us revisit all the places we enjoyed from both games.

Let us customize the normandy. Major upgrades, restructures, decorations, paint-job, custome AI avatar, and over all functionality should all be available options. Let us fine tune the ship to our design so that it feels more ours and not just another alliance or cereberus ship. This was touched on briefly in ME2, but it could go so much further.

Just a few thoughts!

[Revan312]

Inventory management in any game is a slippery slope.. I hated ME1's simply because of the end game triviality of it all.. 50 versions of every gun that's simply a reskin of the other 50 I have that are slightly better/worse etc etc..

But with that said, it was better than ME2's as having such a limited supply of any weapon or piece of armor is just boring.. It was limiting to the point of being redundant and unneeded. I'd like to see an inventory that's somewhat like ME1's, with better management, more variety and far less "loot" for that system..

Regardless of what you want though, there will always be 50% of the game base that dislikes it.. Some like loot based systems, some like established equipment systems.. It's all preference.

And really, I could care less about those aspects.. I hated DA:O's looting as well, as the inventory management was a nightmare once you had 120 slots, but I still think that it's the best Bioware game ever made simply because of the depth, detail and care given to each character in the game. The story is a LotR ripoff yet slowly begins to take its own shape and personality and by the end, the decisions your forced to make can really be dreadful..

ME1 had a hint of that same depth and care yet it was still a ways off in my opinion. I had high hopes as it had established the universe and conflict, introduced the player to the mechanics and had a great story, simple, but great. I was expecting ME2 to delve into the lore, the characters, the setting and the plot much more deeply this time around, yet it didn't, instead it got lighter and more shallow in favor of more flashy cut-scenes and bombastic characters. The story as well, took a major hit, as instead of going with what could have been an expected but much appreciated look inside the Reapers, we got a spin off enemy that has never been mentioned before and will never be seen again..

Overall, it's apparent the game mechanics took precedence this time out and the result was a sloppy and cliched plot because the time and energy used went towards developing new systems for armor, weapons, combat and upgrades. I don't want that to happen again, so I really, really hope they just leave it alone this time and just concentrate on script, dialogue, voice acting and story, because everything else is just secondary in a supposed RPG.. at least imo..

Modifié par Revan312, 01 septembre 2010 - 01:24 .

[kalle90]

The inventory of ME1 could have easily been manageable. Just having an ability to delete more than 1 item at once would have been gold. On the other hand ME2 version is just dull: There is no real inventory, no weapon customization, few weapon variations, after you find 1 weapon everyone in your team can have a copy, no way to tell which is better without trying, only few armors even after DLC.

I'd bring back ME1 inventory with changes:
- Change the item list from "3 at once on screen-column" into 5x5 grid with small icons and a text box next to it. Makes navigating much faster
- Add an ability do delete "all these" and "all worse than this"
- Decrease the number of weapon/armor brands and make them focus on different areas. IE. Lancer assault rifle is made for high fire rate (fully automatic), Banshee is made for accuracy (semiautomatic single shot) and Kovalyov is made for power (semiautomatic burst fire). All of them have 3 or 5 clearly improved grades instead of 7 or 10

However, I liked the ME2 style in that it was more realistic you could carry only so much stuff. So if the loadout boxes were like that tuned ME1 inventory it would be good enough

[bjdbwea]

kalle90 wrote...

However, I liked the ME2 style in that it was more realistic you could carry only so much stuff. So if the loadout boxes were like that tuned ME1 inventory it would be good enough

I also like the more realistic approach of limiting the number of items that can be carried. But the loadout screen is no proper replacement for an inventory.

What if you find a better weapon during a level (which happens way too infrequently)? ME 2 auto-equips them, whether you want it or not. And you can only change your weapons at pre-defined places. That's a terrible design.

[shootist70]

bjdbwea wrote...


I also like the more realistic approach of limiting the number of items that can be carried. But the loadout screen is no proper replacement for an inventory.

What if you find a better weapon during a level (which happens way too infrequently)? ME 2 auto-equips them, whether you want it or not. And you can only change your weapons at pre-defined places. That's a terrible design.

Also annoying when the weapon you found auto-equipped over a DLC weapon, even though the DLC weapon was better. An 'equip now?' option would have sorted that easily.

[tonnactus]

Terror_K wrote...


Except that one needs at least a few junk items to actually make the good items seem good.

It wouldnt be so wrong when weapons and armor have to be repaired with omnigel.That would be a good purpose
for "junk items".

[FataliTensei]

shootist70 wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...


I also like the more realistic approach of limiting the number of items that can be carried. But the loadout screen is no proper replacement for an inventory.

What if you find a better weapon during a level (which happens way too infrequently)? ME 2 auto-equips them, whether you want it or not. And you can only change your weapons at pre-defined places. That's a terrible design.

Also annoying when the weapon you found auto-equipped over a DLC weapon, even though the DLC weapon was better. An 'equip now?' option would have sorted that easily.

Really easily. but BW seems to be into lazy programming now so what can you do?

[Epic777]

FataliTensei wrote...

shootist70 wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...


I also like the more realistic approach of limiting the number of items that can be carried. But the loadout screen is no proper replacement for an inventory.

What if you find a better weapon during a level (which happens way too infrequently)? ME 2 auto-equips them, whether you want it or not. And you can only change your weapons at pre-defined places. That's a terrible design.

Also annoying when the weapon you found auto-equipped over a DLC weapon, even though the DLC weapon was better. An 'equip now?' option would have sorted that easily.

Really easily. but BW seems to be into lazy programming now so what can you do?

The best way to program

[FataliTensei]

Epic777 wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

shootist70 wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...


I also like the more realistic approach of limiting the number of items that can be carried. But the loadout screen is no proper replacement for an inventory.

What if you find a better weapon during a level (which happens way too infrequently)? ME 2 auto-equips them, whether you want it or not. And you can only change your weapons at pre-defined places. That's a terrible design.

Also annoying when the weapon you found auto-equipped over a DLC weapon, even though the DLC weapon was better. An 'equip now?' option would have sorted that easily.

Really easily. but BW seems to be into lazy programming now so what can you do?

The best way to program

I hope thats sarcasm

[Whatever42]

FataliTensei wrote...

shootist70 wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...


I also like the more realistic approach of limiting the number of items that can be carried. But the loadout screen is no proper replacement for an inventory.

What if you find a better weapon during a level (which happens way too infrequently)? ME 2 auto-equips them, whether you want it or not. And you can only change your weapons at pre-defined places. That's a terrible design.

Also annoying when the weapon you found auto-equipped over a DLC weapon, even though the DLC weapon was better. An 'equip now?' option would have sorted that easily.

Really easily. but BW seems to be into lazy programming now so what can you do?

Clearly you've never worked on a large software project. The programmers get zero option on what they program. You want to blame someone, either blame the architects who designed the game or blame the project/product managers who decide how much time/money they will spend on development.  I'm sure the Bioware designers and programmers had a list as long as Edmonton of features they wanted to program but its not up to them.

[DJCaptainPicard]

Random interjection: Did anyone else feel that Grunt's large size didn't really come off? In the cut scenes, and especially during the game play, Grunt never feels like a massive krogan. He's the same height as everyone else. I'd love it if they could give height/shortness to characters that was visibly different as you ran around shooting the bad guys.

[FataliTensei]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

shootist70 wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...


I also like the more realistic approach of limiting the number of items that can be carried. But the loadout screen is no proper replacement for an inventory.

What if you find a better weapon during a level (which happens way too infrequently)? ME 2 auto-equips them, whether you want it or not. And you can only change your weapons at pre-defined places. That's a terrible design.

Also annoying when the weapon you found auto-equipped over a DLC weapon, even though the DLC weapon was better. An 'equip now?' option would have sorted that easily.

Really easily. but BW seems to be into lazy programming now so what can you do?

Clearly you've never worked on a large software project. The programmers get zero option on what they program. You want to blame someone, either blame the architects who designed the game or blame the project/product managers who decide how much time/money they will spend on development.  I'm sure the Bioware designers and programmers had a list as long as Edmonton of features they wanted to program but its not up to them.

We're talking about inputting a small yes/no option when you find something, I really doubt it would have taken that much time to accomplish.

[Whatever42]

FataliTensei wrote...
We're talking about inputting a small yes/no option when you find something, I really doubt it would have taken that much time to accomplish.

Probably not. But it wasn't likely in the design specs so it wasn't put in. And then even if a tester did catch it, it went onto a list of enhancements. Then the item was given a priority and an estimate and a product manager likely decided what the programmers were going to work on for their next build. Since it was likely a low priority item, it simply never made it into a release build before their cut-off date.

Or perhaps the designer actually wanted it that way, to force you to try the new upgrade.

But it wasn't lazy programming. It was either that way by design or originally overlooked by the designers and shelved by the project/product managers.

I know I'm being nitpicky - I programmed for several years and I get defensive when people point the finger there. Programmers on big projects do not put in unspecified features. Well, unless you work for Microsoft. In which case, you might slip in a whole flight simulator for giggles.

[Epic777]

FataliTensei wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

shootist70 wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...


I also like the more realistic approach of limiting the number of items that can be carried. But the loadout screen is no proper replacement for an inventory.

What if you find a better weapon during a level (which happens way too infrequently)? ME 2 auto-equips them, whether you want it or not. And you can only change your weapons at pre-defined places. That's a terrible design.

Also annoying when the weapon you found auto-equipped over a DLC weapon, even though the DLC weapon was better. An 'equip now?' option would have sorted that easily.

Really easily. but BW seems to be into lazy programming now so what can you do?

The best way to program

I hope thats sarcasm

Nope

[kellyhusky]

My biggest disappointment with ME2? I can no longer get the Dr. Pepper DLC. I didn't know about it until 1 week after the universal codes had gone offline. Now I can't get the DLC except through pirating it. And I don't want to. I'd much rather pay for it. Hook me up, Bioware?

[bjdbwea]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Probably not. But it wasn't likely in the design specs so it wasn't put in. And then even if a tester did catch it, it went onto a list of enhancements. Then the item was given a priority and an estimate and a product manager likely decided what the programmers were going to work on for their next build. Since it was likely a low priority item, it simply never made it into a release build before their cut-off date.

Or perhaps the designer actually wanted it that way, to force you to try the new upgrade.

But it wasn't lazy programming. It was either that way by design or originally overlooked by the designers and shelved by the project/product managers.

I know I'm being nitpicky - I programmed for several years and I get defensive when people point the finger there. Programmers on big projects do not put in unspecified features. Well, unless you work for Microsoft. In which case, you might slip in a whole flight simulator for giggles.

I agree. The programmers did a great job. The graphics look better and run smoother, the sound bugs are gone, the game generally seems to run very stable. I'm sure they'd easily be able to implement a proper inventory if they were given the design. And I also think they could have implemented proper controls (hotkeys and proper keyboard and mouse configuration) if they'd been given the time. This doesn't show an inability on the side of the programmers, it just shows that ME 2 was pushed out of the door too early. Their superiors are to blame for this, as they are for the decision to dumb down the game and cut so many corners. But even with these parameters, the designers and the writers could have done a better job.

[Epic777]

One thing I do not get, do people actually want the inventory back because they felt they needed it for gameplay purposes? or simply because its a thing RPGs do?

[bjdbwea]

It makes the game more interesting and adds additional replayability. But no, I do not want the exact same inventory from ME 1 back. I want a good and proper inventory, like BioWare provided in many games before.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 01 septembre 2010 - 09:57 .

[Iakus]

Epic777 wrote...

One thing I do not get, do people actually want the inventory back because they felt they needed it for gameplay purposes? or simply because its a thing RPGs do?

Customization purposes.  We don't need the avalanche of stuff that ME 1 had.  But the ability to choose a weapon that you like, and trick it out with extras to suit your gameplay style.  Same with armor.  So I guess for me it's a little of both, gameplay and RP purposes.

[Terror_K]

Epic777 wrote...

One thing I do not get, do people actually want the inventory back because they felt they needed it for gameplay purposes? or simply because its a thing RPGs do?

Customisation basically, as well as a decent amount of items and to get rid of the horribly linearity and inevitablity of the current system. The current system is, IMO, the worst item and weapons system I've ever come across in an RPG, and that's saying something. It's just so lacking, plain, linear and overly straightforward. There are action games and shooter games that do a better system than ME2 does. There are admittedly a couple of good ideas in there, but it's executed horribly and overall has too many design flaws for the good elements to even work. And worst of all, BioWare in their current arrogant stubborness and belief that ME2 was gaming's second coming of Jesus probably won't even change it.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Epic777 wrote...

One thing I do not get, do people actually want the inventory back because they felt they needed it for gameplay purposes? or simply because its a thing RPGs do?

I would love a customization option. You collect modifications or something to that effect and can modify the default weapons you acquire. This is in similarity with what ME2 has, the primary difference being a significant variety of what could be included. Additionally this could have a cosmetic affect where your upgrades change the appearance of the weapon. There would be limits to the amount of customization however it could open some intriguing doors. Rocket powered shotgun? Shiper with a legion of ammo yet weak output, ARs with scope and this does not even include all the biotics and tech you could add.

Basically take ME2's system, pull it apart and leave the modification decisions to the players. We choose how to build our weapons.

[Pocketgb]

Epic777 wrote...
One thing I do not get, do people actually want the inventory back because they felt they needed it for gameplay purposes? or simply because its a thing RPGs do?

You'll find a variety of opinions here. You'll find plenty wanting it an 'inventory' system, be it good or bad, because they like labels and like being able to call the game an "RPG". You'll find people who simply enjoy having an inventory.

I'm largely indifferent about it. I do not particularly care about a feature or mechanic if it lacks depth, and I'm of an opinion that most of Bioware's independently developed mechanics aren't terribly good.

Terror_K wrote...
The current system is, IMO, the worst item and weapons system I've ever come across in an RPG, and that's saying something.

ME1 

[FataliTensei]

Pocketgb wrote...

Terror_K wrote...
The current system is, IMO, the worst item and weapons system I've ever come across in an RPG, and that's saying something.

ME1 

At least it had inventory, and really ,regardless of all the complaints, it was a decent inventory, maybe a little clunky at times, but overall relatively easy to manage with a basic skill of organizing and identifying what you need and what could be sold/reduced into omni-gel.

Modifié par FataliTensei, 02 septembre 2010 - 03:04 .