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Disappointment With Mass Effect 2? An Open Discussion.


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#76
SurfaceBeneath

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Darth Drago wrote...
-Wish I was on the forum for that back then. My veiws on those five for both games:

1. Combat did need some serious help. No Argument there. However now its not hugely improved, just refined to typical 1st/3rd person standards. I hope they improve it so the enemies you fight do more than the basics they are programmed to do in ME3. In other words have them free thinking more like you squad mates in a fight.

The first ME was just trying to ape GoW too, only they did it terribly. You can't really criticize ME2 for just doing what ME1 tried to do competently. And, as someone who does play the occasional shooter title (I love Half Life 2 and own Gears of War, which I feel is a pretty good game), I can actually say that I find combat in ME2 excellent and even more fun to me than either. This is mostly due to the variation between classes and the fact that every single fight plays out differently from one another, at least on the top two difficulty settings.

2. I wouldn’t agree with that (its been a long time since I played Jade Empire). If you took the time to get to know them through dialog, random dialogs from locations and the “dreaded” elevator you did get a lot of background info on them that showed in their personalities. In ME2 its expanded on by having the loyalty mission each has.

As someone who plays BG2 anually and played Jade Empire 2 very recently, believe me, those two games had much more content when it comes to party interaction. And while character preference is merely that, I do think that most people consider the ME1 cast fairly bland when compared to past Bioware games.

3. The Mako wasn’t terrible (in my opinion) it was a very key element to add depth to the game. Sure landing on planets where it seems most people took the direct route instead of looking at the map to get to where they were going and running into some nasty mountains it would get old. I personally didn’t have that much problem on most planets but yes there were some bad mountain climbing spots on others. Now we get a direct drop to the front door with the shuttle. Hopefully the Hammerhead will bring back some of that Mako charm.

Again, this is your preference, however it is the general consensus pretty much everywhere that the Mako was no good. The worlds you "explored" were pretty much copy paste terrains with different skyboxes and no distinguishing features between them. Compounded was the fact that the Mako handled like a fat kid in an ice rink. Also, curious that people say ME2 has fewer RPG elements and mention the Mako when the Mako was the one part of either game in which all you do is drive and shoot with 0 RPG elements behind it.

I would argue that the concept of exploring these uncharted worlds in your little space buggy is a good idea, however it was handled terribly. Notice that Bioware actually didn't purposely cut this part of ME2, they just couldn't finish it in time, hence the Hammerhead DLC that will be released in about a month. I definitely like the hover craft idea better than the buggy approach since it'll be able to handle more hostile terrain and handling shouldn't be an issue.

4. The inventory in ME1 I wouldn’t consider bad nor did it ruin the flow of the game. The big issue was that the game’s economy was so messed up that by the time you got half way through the game you had to much credits with a lot to sell. Some of the items especially the armor and weapon upgrades should have been leveled better. No getting a armor piercing round for each level you are. It got old pretty quick when you just equipped a version 2 at the beginning of a level and because you leveled up you find a version 3 halfway through it. If they gave you a new version every 5 levels it wouldn’t have been so bad. Keep in mind inventory by loot is a popular aspect of role playing games. Now In ME2 they didn’t fix anything they just dropped it to put in this research upgrade system. To me that didn’t make much sense on a few levels which I’ll go into another time.

Well again, I can't speak for your personal preference, but the overall opinion of ME1's inventory was greatly negative. I personally can't see how it makes sense to carry around a hundred different weapons on your character at a time. It is never good when a great number of your fanbase says that they would actually rather have Bioware included an Omni-gel all button or even turn off looting entirely (which, once you got Collossus armor and a Specter weapon with a decent heat reducing, +dmg vs organics, and +dmg vs synthetics mods you could do and not even notice). Personally, I think the new "inventory" system is much more logical and feels more appropriate to the game. I DO wish there was more customization however, with maybe twice as many weapon/armor variants and perhaps even a way to mod weapons like you can with Shep's armor.

5. Leveling I could go both ways for this. In ME1 you did seem to level pretty quickly until you got to about level 45 then it slowed a bit. If you add in the skills/powers and point distribution then that’s what made it good. I did like having unique skill/power builds for everyone. Just because Ashley can use all weapons didn’t mean I would train her in all of them in every game. Same thing with a biotic do I really need another person with a lot of points in throw if I already have it? Now in ME2 the leveling is slowed down a lot which is a good step actually however its been capped out at level 30 for some reason. Hopefully again with the Hammerhead they will raise the level cap to 40. Unfortunately the skills/powers are really limiting with questionable uses like the ammo types for certain classes. I’m not a fan of having to unlock 2 powers to get to unlock one.

The problem with ME1's leveling system is that you could level up multiple times without noticing or it making much of a difference. There were many times that I personally would go to my squad screen and find that I had built up 8 points without even realizing I had leveled once. And then, when you get right down to it, those 8 points bought you maybe an extra second on one of your abilities or a 8% damage increase or something similarly lackluster. The new approach makes it very clear when you level and also makes those levels important by providing noticible increases to each skill. Again, while this system certainly could use improvement, such as having the 4th level of each ability differ more from each other, I think it was a very large improvement over the first game. And remember, level caps aren't important in of themselves. Baldur's Gate had a level 7-8 cap and that certainly doesn't make it an inferior RPG. What's important is the feeling that your abilities are improving, which ME2 does at least as good as ME1.

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 28 février 2010 - 04:43 .


#77
AngryFrozenWater

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This thread is a terrible idea.

It's absolutely not in the best interest of customers to centralize critique. It feels like: If you have something to complain about then go to this thread. People have the right to start a thread to praise the game and also have a right to start a thread to highlight something about the game they don't like. It would create the feeling that everything is just fine, except for a few whiners. But hey, we got them effectively silenced in this thread.

If threads are locked then it is because of trolling. The mods should go after those trolls and ban them, and discourage hiding critique in a single thread.

As far as I know BioWare wants to know what people like and don't like. Although all threads on the forums are attacked by BW fanatics some did manage to serve their purpose. A very good example is NG+. BW started a thread on the old forums in which they asked what we liked and disliked about NG+. In that thread they came up with a solution that a lot of people didn't like. The critics started a new thread and thanks to these critics NG+ was restored to something a lot of people found acceptable without blocking BW's initial plans for it.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 28 février 2010 - 04:59 .


#78
StodgyFrost98

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I thought Mass Effect 2 was awesome, the only thing that I hated and loathed the most was scanning the planets for minerals.

#79
Gunslinger0331usmc

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I can't speak to the PC version, as i have a 360, but i have made a few observations about the gameplay, some of your comments, and my thoughts on what will be changed.
First off, I agree with the several folks who have previously stated that ME2 is a vast improvement over ME 1. The combat is a million times more smooth, as I generally tend to play either FPS or action games, I absolutely DREADED the combat sequences in the first games, until i got used to the horrible controls. Then it was like visiting that deadbeat Uncle who lives in your Grandma's basement..... You're used to it, and know how to deal with it, but it's not fun.
Planet scanning is a necessary evil in this game, but was boring as hell...... hope we don't see it again.
I hope there are better and more varied armor choices, which has also been explored at length previously.
Another thing that I think would be interesting, if don right, and of course a complete disaster if done wrong, would be some sort of light spacecraft dogfighting a la Skywalker flying around in his X wing blasting TIE fighters. That COULD be cool, and in this type of game, I would be surprised if it isn't even at least mentioned (yes i know our boy isn't a fighter pilot, but it IS a videogame!)
I can't really complain too much though, honestly, i see this game as an improvement over the last, and i only hope the trend continues with the next game. There is one thing about this community that does bother me, and we are perpetuating a sure fire way for our ideas to NOT be heard.......
All the CHILDISH bickering that goes on in SOME of these threads, (amazingly it didn't rise above a dull roar in this one, I was SURE it was gonna get that way ), is going to make anyone who has anything to do with the developement of any future M.E. game think that we're some bunch of snot nosed kids who can't carry on an adult discussion, so those of you who are not secure in your man/womanhood and feel the need to get the last word in/always be right/get offended easily........ This is an internet forum run by a videogame development/design company. We know that they do in fact occasionally READ what is being posted here. If we can have intelligent discussions without having them degenerate into "my NVIDIA G series 1400 Intel double ++ Alienware PC can kick your stupid XBOX 360 People's Revolutionary Strike Force Edition's ASScot!!", or calling each other's opinion's STUPID, or even better....... getting on to the MASS EFFECT DISCUSSION BOARD and saying " You know, i think Mass Effect is a very poorly made game, i don't like it very much" and giving a ten page dissertation on why the game sucks ( if you are gonna take the time to sign up for the forum, create this thread, answer posts about it, why the hell did you spend 50+ hours playing the game if you think it sucks???????).
Bottom line, (better known as the point to my two page dissertation on why I think Bioware is headed in the right direction with ME2, and i hope they keep it up) we know the team reads some of this stuff. If you actually like the games, let's have intelligent discussions, without bashing each other needlessly, and allow the folks at Bioware to recognize us for what we are...... Fans of their product. PAYING CUSTOMERS IN AN AWFUL ECONOMY might i add....... If we take this seriously, I'm sure they will too. Not every videogame company bothers to check what's up in their message forums. This was not directed at anyone in particular, or even at this thread in particular. If reading this made your cheeks feel warm, you are probably guilty of some of the things I said. If it made you laugh or smile, then you probably agree with me. If you have no reaction, then you are probably a Geth Collective........ Now get off my computer!

Modifié par Gunslinger0331usmc, 28 février 2010 - 05:06 .


#80
Jigero

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I love all the whiners who complain about "lack of RPG elements!" and they don't even know what RPG elements are. Crappy inventories and poorly thought out skills systems aren't what make RPGs great.

#81
AngryFrozenWater

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Samael77 wrote...

yoomazir wrote...

Darth, I'm not bothering anymore with these kind of discussions because every time, some people, refusing to accept that ME2 has huge flaws, come here and start posting insulting messages, that's how the previous one got locked and that's how I think this topic will get also locked sooner or later.
But, let me just say to you : keep up the good work man, in the hope that the ME dev team may listen to it.

I agree, no matter how civil you may wish this to be, it will turn into a vulgar mudslinging fight.

I don't like to say this, because I think mods are doing a great job, but these same mods allow those threads to get out of hand. Locking the threads is not a solution. Banning the trolls is a solution. Somehow people who derail threads by posting funny remarks or by throwing dirt to underline allegiance to BW are not considered trolls. I think they are.

#82
Darth Drago

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

It's absolutely not in the best interest of customers to centralize critique. It feels like: If you have something to complain about then go to this thread. People have the right to start a thread to praise the game and also have a right to start a thread to highlight something about the game they don't like. It would create the feeling that everything is just fine, except for a few whiners. But hey, we got them effectively silenced in this thread.

If threads are locked then it is because of trolling. The mods should go after those trolls and ban them, and discourage hiding critique in a single thread.
.


-It would be nice to start a thread about a specific issue however there could be several of them popping up and with all the regular “forum traffic” can easily get buried and forgotten quickly. On a busy day you can see something go from page one to page 5 in a few hours. At least here everything is in one forum so if anyone from BioWare is interested they can see it all here under one thread.

-As for the lockdowns I agree about the banning of trolls but realistically it would take to much time for them to read everything or go through all the “reports” that can get sent them. I know the last 2 of 3 topics about ME2 issues were locked to clear up space on the main page the 3rd one due to flaming.

#83
AngryFrozenWater

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Darth Drago wrote...

yoomazir wrote...

Darth, I'm not bothering anymore with these kind of discussions because every time, some people, refusing to accept that ME2 has huge flaws, come here and start posting insulting messages, that's how the previous one got locked and that's how I think this topic will get also locked sooner or later.
But, let me just say to you : keep up the good work man, in the hope that the ME dev team may listen to it.


Thanks for the support. I borrowed some basic rules from the Same Sex Romance thread as well as started this one clearly stating its intent. Hopefully there wont be as much trouble as we have seen in the other topics.

I understand that it is a good idea to have one huge thread about a single topic like same-sex romances, or NG+, or AI improvements (to name a few random topics). However, I think it is not a good idea to have one big thread for all of these topics. Discussions would be too fragmented to follow and that would make it hard to have indepth discussions.

Also, I can see posts like the following happening: There is already a thread about complaints. Use that. Go whine there.

All in all.. A bad idea.

#84
AngryFrozenWater

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When you submitted your reply, I was typing another... Sorry, Darth. ;)

#85
Darth Drago

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Lol That’s ok. I’ve tried to type up a reply (here or other thread topics) to come back and find a full page has gone by or worse the thread was locked.

You do have a point about the “go whine there” like comments and the localization of everything in one thread. Maybe someone will see several points of view in here and start their own specific issue thread offering a good compromise idea.

Modifié par Darth Drago, 28 février 2010 - 05:53 .


#86
AngryFrozenWater

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Darth... You mentioned that the critique should be easy to find for BW employees. Come to think of it, that may be true. But I don't think one huge thread is the solution for the aforementioned reasons.

How about a thread which contains a kind of an index to topics that people care about? Just a single thread that one dedicated poster (maybe even a mod) updates with links in the frst post.

(Edit: You could even use this thread for it. ;)

Another idea might be to use a prefix to the thread topic in the form of a tag like [CRI].for critique, [BUG] for bug-report, etc. That way it is easy to find the topics and people who don't like such threads can skip them. We use such a system on another forum and the devs actually use them. In fact they have defined standard rules for them. Works great.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 28 février 2010 - 06:15 .


#87
petipas1414

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To be fair... I don't think I'll be able to pass full judgment on ME2 until I play ME3.



Because if ME2 was all about building up characters for the final installment, then bravo!

#88
Darth Drago

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Jigero wrote...

I love all the whiners who complain about "lack of RPG elements!" and they don't even know what RPG elements are. Crappy inventories and poorly thought out skills systems aren't what make RPGs great.

-For me a RPG is story driven. Typically a hero is pitted against unfair odds against the great evil of the story. If your lucky you have companions that will join you in your quest. It typically has a lot of dialog as well as character development. What bothers me is most people seem to compare ME2 to a shooter including me because it feels that way to me with most of the focus on killing everyone in every mission. Is it fair to call a sci-fi RPG a shooter/RPG because they use guns? To me that would be like calling a fantasy RPG a hack n’ slash/RPG just because they use swords. There need to be a clear cut choice on is it a shooter or a RPG, not some weird hybrid mix.

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Darth... You mentioned that the critique should be easy to find for BW employees. Come to think of it, that may be true. But I don't think one huge thread is the solution for the aforementioned reasons.

How about a thread which contains a kind of an index to topics that people care about? Just a single thread that one dedicated poster (maybe even a mod) updates with links in the frst post.

Another idea might be to use a prefix to the topic in the form of a tag like [CRI].for critique, [BUG] for bug-report, etc. That way it is easy to find the topics and people who don't like such threads can skip them. We use such a system on another forum and the devs actually use them. In fact they have defined standard rules for them. Works great.


-Could be an interesting thing to try to get a mod to do or at lest get a thread that’s posted as a sticky. How would that prefix idea work? Like: “[CRI] Mass Effect 2 Combat” ? *You might want to send me a note on this if it takes a lot of explaining. 

Modifié par Darth Drago, 28 février 2010 - 06:26 .


#89
Acero Azul

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 The game may have its problems, but so does every game. I have not had a game that didn't have problems and some of the best games have the worst problems, but i still love this game.

#90
Homebound

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I thought more decisions in ME1 would play out in ME2. I was wrong..And I did all those missions for NOTHING.

#91
AngryFrozenWater

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Darth Drago wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Darth... You mentioned that the critique should be easy to find for BW employees. Come to think of it, that may be true. But I don't think one huge thread is the solution for the aforementioned reasons.

How about a thread which contains a kind of an index to topics that people care about? Just a single thread that one dedicated poster (maybe even a mod) updates with links in the frst post.

Another idea might be to use a prefix to the topic in the form of a tag like [CRI].for critique, [BUG] for bug-report, etc. That way it is easy to find the topics and people who don't like such threads can skip them. We use such a system on another forum and the devs actually use them. In fact they have defined standard rules for them. Works great.


-Could be an interesting thing to try to get a mod to do or at lest get a thread that’s posted as a sticky. How would that prefix idea work? Like: “[CRI] Mass Effect 2 Combat” ?

Yeah... Would be nice to have it as a sticky. Someone who is willing to update it on a regular basis would be great too. Maybe too much to ask for a mod. But who knows? I know a forum in whhich a moderator keeps track of all popular community mods that way.

About your last question: Yup. That would be an example. Or "[BUG] Player stuck in the air".

Time for coffee. ;)

Edit: Examples...

[BUG]: Prefix for bug reports
[REQ]: Prefix for feature request
[REL]: Prefix for software/patch/mod release
[POL[: Prefix for poll
[PRO]: Prefix for project related subject
[GRO]: Prefix for group related subject
[BLO]: Prefix for blog related subject
[NEW]: Prefix for news

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 28 février 2010 - 07:00 .


#92
AngryFrozenWater

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Acero Azul wrote...

 The game may have its problems, but so does every game. I have not had a game that didn't have problems and some of the best games have the worst problems, but i still love this game.

Yeah. I love the game too. That doesn't mean it doesn't have flaws. I think threads like these start, because posters who mention those flaws in threads get attacked. Most of them don't care, but these attacks create a less friendly atmosphere on the forums. Sometimes resulting in lock downs. It's strange really, because most of the regular critics love the game just as much as the BW lovers. Why they see critique as an act of war is beyond me, but I think these people are the true problem on these forums.

#93
Andorfiend

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Would it be pointless to suggest we might discuss the subject of the thread rather that the existence/futility of the thread itself?

Things ME 2 had that ME 1 did not:
  • Advertisments in the Citadel. Mostly hilarous. Occasionally disturbing. "Commander Shepard our records show you are dead. Try one of our funeral robes."
  • Planet Scanning
  • Intra-party fighting.
  • Elcor that move. And smoke cigars.
  • A friendly AI.
  • Exploration of the Geth as more than simple mooks.
  • Some deeper hints into the purpose of the reapers.
  • Player directed research. Kinda.
  • The interrupt system.
  • An ammo system.
Things that ME 1 had that ME 2 did not.
  • Mods.
  • Elevator dialogue.
  • Intra-party conversations.
  • The Mako
  • An inventory system.
  • A complex plot
  • A memorable villain.
  • Talking to Hanar.
  • A radar screen.

Modifié par Andorfiend, 28 février 2010 - 06:57 .


#94
SurfaceBeneath

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Andorfiend wrote...

[*]Things that ME 1 had that ME 2 did not.

  • A memorable villain.


I found Saren pretty forgettable tbh.

Illusive Man is a much better "villain" in my opinion.

#95
AngryFrozenWater

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SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Illusive Man is a much better "villain" in my opinion.


I think TIM is a teddy bear. When did Saren gave you a ship? When did Saren provide you with a crew? When did Saren donate funds to defeat your enemies? Just to name a few. ;)

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 28 février 2010 - 08:41 .


#96
SithLordExarKun

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Illusive Man is a much better "villain" in my opinion.


I think TIM is a teddy bear. When did Saren gave you a ship? When did Saren provide you with a crew? When did Saren donate funds to defeat your enemies? Just to name a few. ;)

Yet TIM is a far more compelling villian than saren that was just a tool for sovereign only to be discarded later.

TIM isn't the "in your face so direct" kind of enemy saren any other cliche villians. In fact TIM was as good as kreia from KOTOR2 imo.

#97
AngryFrozenWater

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SithLordExarKun wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Illusive Man is a much better "villain" in my opinion.


I think TIM is a teddy bear. When did Saren gave you a ship? When did Saren provide you with a crew? When did Saren donate funds to defeat your enemies? Just to name a few. ;)

Yet TIM is a far more compelling villian than saren that was just a tool for sovereign only to be discarded later.

TIM isn't the "in your face so direct" kind of enemy saren any other cliche villians. In fact TIM was as good as kreia from KOTOR2 imo.

How is Cerberus not in your face enough? It was pretty clear in ME1. I really hope that we can bring down TIM and Cerberus, but I don't think he was meant to be a villain in ME2. He was meant to be dark and edgy to attract a new audience to the game. Nothing more than that. I would love to see him as an enemy in ME3, though.

#98
TornadoADV

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ME1 is better then ME2, ME2 is still a great game.



When I want an RPG with depth, I'll play ME1. If I just want some quick paced action with minimal fuss, I play ME2. In my personal opinion, I would prefer that ME3 be somewhere between ME1 and ME2 in terms of mechanics.

#99
ResidentNoob

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What I loved::wub:
  • Epic storyline
  • Great soundtrack
  • Combat 'flows' much better
  • Planet scanning (please don't hate me!)
  • Old faces from ME1 returning
  • More emotional romances
  • Being able to romance Tali
  • Mordin Solus. Seriously, that dude on his own is just pwnage.
What I hated::ph34r:
  • Half of Normandy locked down right at the start
  • No more Mako (Seriously, I would have liked both the Mako and the scanning: scanning to get minerals, Mako to have a bit more freedom within the missions)
  • ME1 teamates not being able to help. If they can't be teamates in ME3, I will be angry.
  • Not being able to go anywhere we could in ME1. We even had to go to a different area of the freakin' Citadel.
Also, congrats to the OP on this being one of the most civil topics I've ever seen.;)

#100
Kenzie1100

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Mass effect 1 was a very good game, it definitely had a better story. I LOVED mass effect 2, it pretty much had a better everything else. My only complaints about mass effect 2 were that it was very buggy (or at least mine was,) the conversations with squadmate were slightly too short if you ask me, and how small the cameos of ME! squadmates were.