10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Pocketgb]

Revan312 wrote...
I'm not gonna sit here and say however that ME1 was a perfect system, it wasn't.  It was unbalanced and tedious at times.  The inventory management was a mess and the numeric system for weapons, armor, mods and stats was redundent and was there simply for power curve.  I just think it was better than ME2's striped down and simplistic style.  A mix between the two would be great, and I hope that that's what Bioware does in ME3.

I dislike both systems. They're both underwhelming when it comes down to it. But preferably I'd want them to expand things from ME2's perspective.

That's about as far as I can go with that.

Terror_K wrote...
That's called "RPG Gear Progression"

The fact that ME2 doesn't have that is proof of its failings....

No.

[brfritos]

Revan312 wrote...

...I wish they stopped with the DLCs altogether. I think I'd rather they put all their resources into delivering in ME3 a story that is less episodic, and which takes all its cool bits, and actually incorporates them into a main plot that feels cohesive and expansive at the same time. I suppose I'm asking for the moon on a stick in a way, and I'm sort of asking for a return to pre-DLC game planning, where everything that's of significance comes in the box, and you feel the journey is a complete and conclusive one. The more I think about the forthcoming 'bridging' pieces between ME2 and ME3 the more I feel I'd rather the latter began where ME2 left off, and that we don't get a lot of little mini-stories inbetween (which never really fit into the main game, because (for example) having finished Broker no-one on the ship seems even aware that it actually happened).

Wow, that's kind of surprising how you feel as even most of us haters enjoyed it..  I thought it was the most relevant set of missions in the whole game, even taking into account the main plot.  Liara was always a pretty integral character as she was one of the first true character links with the main plot. She helped you piece together the prothean visions and her mother was one of Saren's minions.  She handed your body over to Cerberus and lost a friend doing it.  If she was in love with you I can see her "fall" from the original Liara at least somewhat plausible, if not, ya, it seems a bit radical. Plus it was the first time, really, that Shepard's death was brought up for more than 2 seconds and with more meaning than a fleeting joke. ... 

Yeah, this really surprise me. I mean, imagine if you die and two years later was possible to bring you back to life.
The rest of the world moved on but you still have the memories, moments and facts of two years ago.
This could be frustrating.

Since the first time I finished the game I always thinked "Shepard must be a wallpaper or a lava lamp, nobody cares about him/her".
I mean, WTF, all things flying around and Shepard doesn't show a little emotion?
Only on Horizon you could see a glimpse of the Commander disappointment, the rest of the game is like "well, it's normal to die and later return to life. No problem if your wife or family move on and there's no problem at all if no one talk about it".

When I saw Liara asking the commander how he/she feel I almost screamed "about time".

As for the DLCs, forget it, it's the new bandawagon of the industry.
If you carefully look all the DLCs, only Overlord can be considered an attempt to expand the original story, but even him can be looked pretty much as a side-quest (and it's listed as a such in your Journal, BTW).
Every other DLC is content who should be already in the game, every one of them.

I was questioning this the other day, this is the future of gaming?
I don't know, sometimes I think is better NOT to play a game when launched and wait an year, so you can buy the complete package, with the complete story as intended.

And concerning "cover the bridges between ME2 and ME3", this DLC is the opposite of it, it covers a lot of bridges between ME1 and ME2.

Modifié par brfritos, 10 septembre 2010 - 03:07 .

[tonnactus]

Revan312 wrote...

I thought that too, when she told Shep not to judge her and listed what Cerberus had done I really wanted to simply give her some gel and let her go.. She was right about everything she said and really, since she had nothing to do with Liara's conflict with the SB it seemed only natural that she would protect such a huge asset to the council..  But, at the same time I'm glad that they didn't cop out by having her live..  The fanboy inside me though would have been happy meeting her in ME3

We maybee would meet her again,but as shiala.Really,vasir was just a recoloured shiala regarding her look.

[Sonevar]

My main beef with ME2 was that they gutted the RPG out of ME1 stripped it to bare bones and threw a half baked FP Shooter into the corpse...

Honestly, how do you find a perfect half circle formation of rocks that is perfectly shaped to provide the manditory standing and crouching cover that is in the same layout as the Boxes and Railing from the space station 2 missions ago

Why would weapon designers go from a nearly ammo-less configuration to a system that requires heat-clips? (Useless game mechanic that does nothing but attract FP shooter Players)

How do you convince several dozen businesses to switch from mass produced plug and play weaponry to modular upgrade configurations in 2 years? They just now did a one-liner to cover the omni-gel switch in the Shadow Broker DLC

How does Sol (earth's system) now have a mass relay? Humans didn't discover it in 2000+ years? Neither humans nor Turians used it during the war? So how does a relay get constructed and moved in 2 years

If Normandy 2 has it's own Mass Effect Core, why is it "too heavy to land on high gravity worlds"?

Why did biotics get weaker in 2 years? Did Humans start using weaker implants? Possible considering L2 vs L3 debate but how did the asari natural abilities weaken?

If Shepard is supposed to be who he/she was before the accident as per the Illusive Man's direct instructions and memory is verified by Jacob and Miranda, why does a lvl 60 import with 106+ skill points go down to a lvl 1 with 10 skill points, if you do the math that's worth about 21 ME1 points which puts you at the equivilant of a lvl 8 ME1 Character at most. Mechanics wise I understand this but it still leaves another Massive inconsistancy in the storyline (a side note I dislike having a leftover skill point if you don't min/max).

And lastly the Romance issue... whether you are a fan of same-sex relations or not it is still a choice to be made. If you eliminate choice you eliminate more Role-playing outcomes, if you eliminate Roleplaying elements in what is supposed to be an RPG, all you're left with is a half-baked FP Shooter

Modifié par Sonevar, 10 septembre 2010 - 04:08 .

[Iakus]

brfritos wrote...




Wow, that's kind of surprising how you feel as even most of us haters enjoyed it..  I thought it was the most relevant set of missions in the whole game, even taking into account the main plot.  Liara was always a pretty integral character as she was one of the first true character links with the main plot. She helped you piece together the prothean visions and her mother was one of Saren's minions.  She handed your body over to Cerberus and lost a friend doing it.  If she was in love with you I can see her "fall" from the original Liara at least somewhat plausible, if not, ya, it seems a bit radical. Plus it was the first time, really, that Shepard's death was brought up for more than 2 seconds and with more meaning than a fleeting joke. ... 

This

It wasn't that it was a good DLC that I enjoyed it, it was that it actually made an attempt  to address the problems I had with ME 2's story.  It's not much, but it gives me hope.  Someone finally asks Shepard how he's doing, and what he's fighting for.  Someone actually mentions the horrible things Cerberus has done.  Even Admiral Kahoku is mentioned, if indirectly.  Some stuff you learn about your squad members are things I would have wished had been incorporated into the main game.  It might have actually added a bit more depth to the characters outside their loyalty missions. 

Liara and the Shadow Broker are both links to ME 1, lending a bit of consistency between the games.  Granted Liara going from fresh-faced archaeologist to major information broker is never likely to be addressed to my satisfaction, but at least we have something a little closer to the "old" Liara back.  Seeing the world she's been living in and walking around in it sort of explains the darkness she found herself sinking into.  Much better than a single conversation topic that's easy to miss and permanently lock yourself out of. 

Bonus points also go to making Liara a temporary squad member and not dressing her like a stripper.

Yeah, this really surprise me. I mean, imagine if you die and two years later was possible to bring you back to life.
The rest of the world moved on but you still have the memories, moments and facts of two years ago.
This could be frustrating.

Since the first time I finished the game I always thinked "Shepard must be a wallpaper or a lava lamp, nobody cares about him/her".
I mean, WTF, all things flying around and Shepard doesn't show a little emotion?
Only on Horizon you could see a glimpse of the Commander disappointment, the rest of the game is like "well, it's normal to die and later return to life. No problem if your wife or family move on and there's no problem at all if no one talk about it".

When I saw Liara asking the commander how he/she feel I almost screamed "about time".

This too

Now if we can just get some DLC to:
 
Rehabilitate the Virmire Survivor like they did Liara

Retcon Cerberus to have more of a clue about the Collector and their base to explain just how TIM knew exactly which dossiers to pick

Provide more information on how exactly one can ressurect a two year extremely dead corpse.

Explain why the Council did an about-face concerning the Reapers.

Add squad banter and interaction

And we may have a decent game here.

A shame we 'd have to pay extra for it though.

I was questioning this the other day, this is the future of gaming?
I don't know, sometimes I think is better NOT to play a game when launched and wait an year, so you can buy the complete package, with the complete story as intended.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

In fact, when DA 2 (or any other Bioware game) comes out, I'll probably just wait six months or a year, get it at half price, and use the money I saved on DLC.  Games are already expensive enough without paying for a couple of extra hours of material at $7-$10 each.  Once or twice for really good content is one thing, but the way things are going now, it wouldn't suprise me to see Bioware setting up a subscription service soon, like for an MMO

And concerning "cover the bridges between ME2 and ME3", this DLC is the opposite of it, it covers a lot of bridges between ME1 and ME2.

Agreed. 

Again, pity we had to pay extra for it.

Modifié par iakus, 11 septembre 2010 - 06:37 .

[tonnactus]

Yes,shepardt was dead and no one was interested if he/she actually "experienced" something.Ashley

would be the first who would ask if shepardt see something like heaven.

[Darth Drago]

brfritos wrote...

Yeah, this really surprise me. I mean, imagine if you die and two years later was possible to bring you back to life.
The rest of the world moved on but you still have the memories, moments and facts of two years ago.
This could be frustrating.

Since the first time I finished the game I always thinked "Shepard must be a wallpaper or a lava lamp, nobody cares about him/her".
I mean, WTF, all things flying around and Shepard doesn't show a little emotion?

Only on Horizon you could see a glimpse of the Commander disappointment, the rest of the game is like "well, it's normal to die and later return to life. No problem if your wife or family move on and there's no problem at all if no one talk about it".

When I saw Liara asking the commander how he/she feel I almost screamed "about time".

-Was that Liara moment in the new download or the already in game scene?

I did find it funny and most likely due to very bad writing that all you get from Shepard’s mother is a short little e-mail. That only Wrex was actually glad to see you and he wasn’t even there when you got spaced.

You would think that the savior of the Citadel would have had some sort of dedication plaque or something on the station itself. That Anderson would have even been glad to see Shepard. That Ashley/Kaiden would have had a more emotional moment upon seeing Shepard for the first time since seeing the Normandy get destroyed. Yet they still enjoy ripping into you about not getting in contact with them. Lets see, dead for about 2 years, alive for maybe a week or two with a lot to catch up on but no time to do it since I’m kind of on a rather big mission saving the f’ing universe.

Maybe Shepard’s emotion center in his/her brain about being resurrected still needed work. I know if I had been dead for two years and suddenly brought back alive the same I was before I died, I would have some serious issues dealing with things. Do I have my soul (if I was religious), how will my family/friends/lover react to me being back alive and so on. Was there even a moment at all where we get anything out of Shepard or one of the crewmates that saw him/her die even mention concerns about any of this?

brfritos wrote...
As for the DLCs, forget it, it's the new bandawagon of the industry.
If you carefully look all the DLCs, only Overlord can be considered an attempt to expand the original story, but even him can be looked pretty much as a side-quest (and it's listed as a such in your Journal, BTW).
Every other DLC is content who should be already in the game, every one of them.

I was questioning this the other day, this is the future of gaming?
I don't know, sometimes I think is better NOT to play a game when launched and wait an year, so you can buy the complete package, with the complete story as intended.

And concerning "cover the bridges between ME2 and ME3", this DLC is the opposite of it, it covers a lot of bridges between ME1 and ME2.

-Its something I would consider as well, to wait about a year to buy a game so I can get the full game. At least with certain companies like BioWare/EA or to see if someone finds out that a game had “locked” content on the disk that you have to pay to “unlock”. But you know what off sets this problem? All the pre-order offers for buying the game new. I cant stand any of those crap marketing scams either.

Also it would give time for BioWare to fix the bugs that their game had if you waited as well. Look at Dragon Age Origins/Awakenings for a perfect example of a total lack of tech support for a game. Its been out almost a year now and they still haven’t fixed everything and with each new download there is something else that is messes up the game.

If you read my posting here: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/1472797/395#4675336

You would see that most of the downloadable content we got for either ME2 or DAO (Awakenings didn’t even get anything)was not even worth getting. Its just a nickel and dime marketing thing to milk customers out of money for half assed game add-ons with low quality development.

Modifié par Darth Drago, 16 septembre 2010 - 05:54 .

[Embrosil]

Kavadas wrote...

Sidney wrote...

I've got to say I sort of like the "armor is armor" approach.  Seriously you've bankrupted the organization to rebuild me but you are gonna chintz on the armor to protect my rebuilt self?

ME2's method of gear acquisition was far superior.  Once you picked up that Vindicator on Garrus' mission anyone in your squad could have it and there weren't ten levels of a single weapon to grind through; I liked that.  It made a lot of sense.

O.K. So you pick up one, ONE gun and magically everyone can use it. They must have discovered Star Trek replicators. And why the hell do I have to wait till I "find" it when it is surely avaialble at every shop??

[Gibb_Garrus]

Embrosil wrote...

Kavadas wrote...

Sidney wrote...

I've got to say I sort of like the "armor is armor" approach.  Seriously you've bankrupted the organization to rebuild me but you are gonna chintz on the armor to protect my rebuilt self?

ME2's method of gear acquisition was far superior.  Once you picked up that Vindicator on Garrus' mission anyone in your squad could have it and there weren't ten levels of a single weapon to grind through; I liked that.  It made a lot of sense.

O.K. So you pick up one, ONE gun and magically everyone can use it. They must have discovered Star Trek replicators. And why the hell do I have to wait till I "find" it when it is surely avaialble at every shop??

Because no matter how much you want it to be real life, mass effect is still a game. And like most games, you progressively get better equipment, its not all handed to you from the start. That is why its not "in every shop".

This nitpicking is ridiculous

[Mister Mida]

It would honestly be an improvement if there were actually weapons for sale instead of only upgrades or armour parts.

[zazei]

Gibb_Garrus wrote...

Embrosil wrote...

Kavadas wrote...

Sidney wrote...

I've got to say I sort of like the "armor is armor" approach.  Seriously you've bankrupted the organization to rebuild me but you are gonna chintz on the armor to protect my rebuilt self?

ME2's method of gear acquisition was far superior.  Once you picked up that Vindicator on Garrus' mission anyone in your squad could have it and there weren't ten levels of a single weapon to grind through; I liked that.  It made a lot of sense.

O.K. So you pick up one, ONE gun and magically everyone can use it. They must have discovered Star Trek replicators. And why the hell do I have to wait till I "find" it when it is surely avaialble at every shop??

Because no matter how much you want it to be real life, mass effect is still a game. And like most games, you progressively get better equipment, its not all handed to you from the start. That is why its not "in every shop".

This nitpicking is ridiculous

Only you do get everything pretty much from the start and the progression is a joke compared to ME1. For those classes that can only use a normal gun and SMG's all you need to do is pick up Kasumi and do her loyalty mission right away and you get the Lotus SMG and are set for the rest of the game. Also was possible to get armor that can last all the way through with DLC from day one, then again the standard armor Shepard wakes up with also works just as well in the tutorial as on the suicide mission. Add DCL guns to this and there is almost no need to pick up anything found out on the missions at all.

Now ME1 wasn't perfect but ME2 doesn't have anything close to a curve where the player "progressively get better equipment".

[turian councilor Knockout]

Udina makes an appearence.

[Mister Mida]

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

Udina makes an appearence.

???

[Kavadas]

Embrosil wrote...

O.K. So you pick up one, ONE gun and magically everyone can use it. They must have discovered Star Trek replicators. And why the hell do I have to wait till I "find" it when it is surely avaialble at every shop??

Between Solus and Jacob I'm sure they were capable of fabricating one.  Doesn't the lab on the SR2 serve precisely that purpose?

Oh yeah, it does.

What I didn't like is that after acquiring a weapon all of the sudden everyone on your squad who can carry one magically has one right at that moment.  That's always bugged me.

Tangentially, ME2's weapons are just plain better than ME1's anyways.  ME1 had ten million versions of an identical weapon.  I don't feel like +16% assault rifle damage makes a weapon much different than a weapon with +20% assault rifle damage.

But the differences between the Revenant, the Vindicator, the Avenger, and the Mattock are massive.  There are real differences between those weapons, not merely statisical fluff ones.

Modifié par Kavadas, 16 septembre 2010 - 04:35 .

[SithLordExarKun]

Darth Drago wrote...



You would see that most of the downloadable content we got for either ME2 or DAO (Awakenings didn’t even get anything)was not even worth getting. Its just a nickel and dime marketing thing to milk customers out of money for half assed game add-ons with low quality development.

Yes and all of which should have been in the main game really. Thats the rip off.

[stewie1974]

Agree... the weapons ARE different in ME2... you can notice the effects on enemies.... in ME1... it was just left to the imagination....

Modifié par stewie1974, 16 septembre 2010 - 03:56 .

[tonnactus]

Kavadas wrote...

Tangentially, ME2's weapons are just plain better than ME1's anyways.  ME1 had ten million versions of an identical weapon.  I don't feel like +16% assault rifle damage makes a weapon much different than a weapon with +20% assault rifle damage.

Oh really?At least the differences in accuracy were noticable and there were alsways weapon mods.Where is the difference between the geth rifle,the avenger and the collector weapon?Zero then.

[SithLordExarKun]

tonnactus wrote...


Oh really?At least the differences in accuracy were noticable and there were alsways weapon mods.Where is the difference between the geth rifle,the avenger and the collector weapon?Zero then.

Mods which are essentially useless. Really, ME2's weapon system may be very limited, but don't pretend ME1's weapons are way better. There is essentially zero difference between the weapons in ME1 and the only thing that seperates one rifle from another(other than the looks) is the damage.

In ME2, while there are limited weapons one weapon looks and feels different from another(burst fire, fully automatic and bolt action).

[smudboy]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

You would see that most of the downloadable content we got for either ME2 or DAO (Awakenings didn’t even get anything)was not even worth getting. Its just a nickel and dime marketing thing to milk customers out of money for half assed game add-ons with low quality development.

Yes and all of which should have been in the main game really. Thats the rip off.

I fundamentally believe if they made the game like LOTSB, we wouldn't be as disappointed as much as we are.

-Shepard still doesn't develop as a character, although they do get the opportunity to have their opinion expressed (what, was no one asking "how's it going" to them before?  Was Jacob and Miranda's shuttle ride all there was? "I feel fine."  Ah huh.)
-Liara could still be some other character.  We still don't know what caused her to get all harsh and plan revenge, why she couldn't let Shepard go, and then throw her revenge away because Feron appears alive, then contrivingly get it all back once Electroshock Chair was powered by the Intranet.
-Romance is a bit better, but I was still waiting for one simple line as "Liara, it's all because of you."  That's right.  The simple most obvious statement, to acknowledge the fact that because of Liara, all of this is possible.  Ditto with Miranda.

The one thing I did like was Shepard was integral to the plot of LOTSB: without their ID, the story couldn't continue.  Funny, Shepard being integral to a DLC and not the main story...

[SithLordExarKun]

smudboy wrote...


-Shepard still doesn't develop as a character, although they do get the opportunity to have their opinion expressed (what, was no one asking "how's it going" to them before?  Was Jacob and Miranda's shuttle ride all there was? "I feel fine."  Ah huh.)

Well as stated in my previous thread, Shepard, to me is bascically an empty, underdeveloped character and feels like a Mary Sue. He/she is solving everyones issues, but what about Shepards?

Theres no vulnerability shown in Shepard despite :
-Getting killed and being brought back to life by an organization you hate(and you have zero problems with it)
-You're former LI telling you to get lost because you joined cerberus.
-TIM treating you like his errand boy(and you have zero problems with it)
-The council still being a jackass despite saving their lives and dismissing anything you say about the reapers.

All this happened and there is virtually zero change in character. Luke Skywalker's character development progressed through out the original trilogy, Ripleys development progressed through the Alien trilogy but Shepard still remains unchanged.

Garrus,Liara,Tali all showed character progression while Shepard? Still at square one.

[stewie1974]

tonnactus wrote...

Kavadas wrote...

Tangentially, ME2's weapons are just plain better than ME1's anyways.  ME1 had ten million versions of an identical weapon.  I don't feel like +16% assault rifle damage makes a weapon much different than a weapon with +20% assault rifle damage.

Oh really?At least the differences in accuracy were noticable and there were alsways weapon mods.Where is the difference between the geth rifle,the avenger and the collector weapon?Zero then.

The geth rifle???? you mean the plasma shotgun? Or the widow ? I didn't know you could pick up a geth rifile...

The collector weapon, if you mean the collector rifle .... its got a better ammo supply, higher rate of fire, and is more accurate than the avenger... if you mean the heavy particle weapon...well duh its an obvious difference..

as for the accuracy... Mass effect made a trained soilder ...thats right a N7 Freakin marine ... not able to hit the broad side of a barn with an assult rifle unless he earned points in it......... wait wha??????? a trained N7 Marine you say???? the hero of insert location here....... couldn't even fire an assult rifle????? wtf...

it made zero sense..... the difference in ME 2  rate of fire, ammo capacity, ammo rate before reload, impact damage, spread, etc.... all the weapons have different effects on enemies ... i can tell you firing a matlock against a sion and an avenger have very very very different outcomes if you put the clock on it....... if you are complaining about not having your targeting scope spaz around the screen because you don't have a point in the weapon profincey....well.... just don't press "Aim" and spin around in your chair a few times for pretty much the same effect.


Not gonna go to the shepard place ... he's intregal... collectors want HIM, nobody else...... he's bait, nuff said..
as for character development.....  name is a clue.... "he's shepard" he develops other characters.....he herds them in the direction he wants them to go..... I can't believe that little apithiny never dropped for anyone before. Names... they aint just there for ****s n giggles.

Shepard is YOU... arguing shepard isn't needed for the game... is like saying the game can complete itself.... it's not a freaking movie where you are passively observing it..

Little test for you.....  Boot up game.... then do "NOTHING" after starting the game.... that's right... just stand there on the burning wreck of the normandy....... while liara or ash ask you what to do next..... just stand there.... see what happens.

That's how important the role of shepard is in the game..

Modifié par stewie1974, 16 septembre 2010 - 05:18 .

[tonnactus]

[quote]stewie1974 wrote...

[/quote]

The geth rifle???? you mean the plasma shotgun? Or the widow ? I didn't know you could pick up a geth rifile...
[/quote]
The geth assault rilfe on haestrom.

[quote]
The collector weapon, if you mean the collector rifle .... its got a better ammo supply, higher rate of fire, and is more accurate than the avenger... if you mean the heavy particle weapon...well duh its an obvious difference..
[/quote]
Those differences are not different from the number of shots before a weapon overheat in Mass Effect.(the ammo supply)

[quote]
as for the accuracy... Mass effect made a trained soilder ...thats right a N7 Freakin marine ... not able to hit the broad side of a barn with an assult rifle unless he earned points in it......... wait wha??????? a trained N7 Marine you say???? the hero of insert location here....... couldn't even fire an assult rifle????? wtf...


[/quote]

Dont know about what people are talking there.The assault rilfe was usable from the start even without the weapon profiency.Just some crouch was needed.The weapon talent just improves accuracy and damage a little and give special weapon attacks.The stats of the used weapon were far more important for regular shooting then the weapon talent.

[Kavadas]

Even with ME1's mod systems you couldn't fundamentally alter a weapon's mechanics; you just played with the stats.

Mechanically, every single assault rifle in ME1 is identical. What changes are a few stats, two weapon models, and a slew of pedestrian weapon skins.

I'd rather have weapons which actually perform uniquely, ala ME2, than weapons whose differences can only be measured via spreadsheets.

Now, I'm not saying I wouldn't enjoy a ME1 type modding system for ME2, because that would be awesome, but only if they left out the absurdity of item levels and tracking actual mod unit quantities.

In other words, there is one version of a mod and the game doesn't track whether you have 1 or 1,000, it tracks them just like how weapons are already tracked in ME2 (once acquired you have an infinite supply... or at most 13).

Modifié par Kavadas, 16 septembre 2010 - 06:59 .

[Vena_86]

And here we are again. It's either the way ME1 did it or ME2...only that it isn't. Tt can be the best of both worlds or something totally different. There are really many options.

[Lumikki]

Vena_86 wrote...

And here we are again. It's either the way ME1 did it or ME2...only that it isn't. Tt can be the best of both worlds or something totally different. There are really many options.

Yes, but the problem is we can't seem to agree as what are the best of both worlds as option. Only some of the options can be agreed, many can't.