10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Drago]

DarthRomance wrote...

I am a little disappointed in the story. The revelations were not as mindblowing as ME1 nor as emotional. Of course, Virmire is one of the greatest levels in video game history so it is hard to top that.

-I agree on the disappointing story, ME2 really has no main story. A main story is something that should take up most of your time or at least be reminded about it a lot at every turn. In ME1 every encounter with the Geth did just that.

*some spoilers below if you haven’t played the game*

ME2 is nothing but a collection of short stories with the main plotline used as filler if you look at it as a book containing a collection of short stories that feature Commander Shepard.

The chapters would be (and actually are):
1. Save Joker- intro prologue
2. Awakening- (meet Jacob and Miranda)
3. Freedom's Progress- main quest
4. The Professor
5. Archangel
6. The Convict
7. The Warlord
8. The Veteran- would only be a few pages at most.
9. The Master Thief- would only be a few pages at most.
10. Over the Horizon- main quest
11. The Assassin
12. The Justicar
13. Tali
14. Collector Ship- main quest
15. Garrus: Eye for an Eye
16. Grunt: Rite of Passage
17. Jack: Subject Zero
18. Jacob: The Gift of Greatness
19. Miranda: The Prodigal
20. Mordin: Old Blood
21. Samara: The Ardat-Yakshi
22. Tali: Treason
23. Thane: Sins of the Father
24. Zaeed: The Price of Revenge
25. Kasumi: Stealing Memory
26. Reaper IFF- main quest
27. Legion: A House Divided
28. Suicide Mission- main quest

All that came down to:
1 intro prologue short story
7 great character short stories that came in 2 parts (for those you recruit and their loyalty missions)
3 short stories featuring Jacob and Miranda (Awakening and their loyalty missions),
2 decent short stories for Zaeed and Kasumi with a very short teaser story for each earlier in the book (no recruiting mission)
1 so-so short story for Legion (only get a loyalty mission)
5 short stories about Collectors and their connection to the Reaper’s.
-Morinth doesn’t even get her own story at all, she just appears in Samara‘s second part.

That’s not a good balance at all. Yes, its true that a good chunk of the game is about getting your team formed to fight the Collectors in something considered a suicide mission. But when the main collector threat is reduced to a few little encounters and a final battle that really isn’t all that good nor as suicidal as it was hyped to be, it makes all that time recruiting your team and doing their loyalty missions feel like a waste of time.

Maybe if the final Suicide Mission was twice as long with a few sub boss fights, like a praetorian for example, that would have helped. Or if there was an actual threat and certainty that squad members will die. There is no Virmire like moment where you had to choose who lived or died and therefore ME2 had no real sense of danger.

Consider if in Star Wars Episode 2 if all the Jedi in the Geonosis attack lived, in The Dirty Dozen if all of convicts lived through their mission or in The Seven Samurai (or the American version The Magnificent Seven) if all of the heroes lived protecting the village? Mass Effect 2 is missing that kind of resolution to its final showdown battle to make it feel close to being dramatic or even epic on any level.

[tonnactus]

And when it comes to gameplay, i still dont understand what Mass Effect 2 did so much better then the first one. The enemies you encounter are boring as hell.The enemy biotics are just some silly warpbots.

The only difference between an exclipse vanguard and the commando is brickwall of armor the commando has.They use shotguns at all ranges,what makes them a joke.

They are slow,not fast and agile like in the first game.

The same is true for krogans.

Techs only use incinerate and sometimes the drone.

Only thing that improves is the damage they did with shooting,and that is only true for the enemies with assault rifles.

[Icinix]

Darth Drago wrote...
(SNIP) Mass Effect 2 is missing that kind of resolution to its final showdown battle to make it feel close to being dramatic or even epic on any level. 

I love both Mass Effects, think they're both fantastic games and dare I say it, masterpieces in their genres.  But this comment I will back till judgement day and then sometimes after.

Epic, Grand, Sprawling, Open, Vast.  However many superlatives along those lines, ME2 was lacking it.  It was an awesome game, but it was awesome while lacking that epic feeling that ME1 did manage to capture.

It was better in so many ways, but it just didn't capture that feeling.  I don't know if it was the story that did it, or if it was the combination of everything it changed / removed from the first game and was an unfortunate by product.

However, most middle parts of a trilogy don't have that epic feeling.  Empire Strikes Back, Back to the Future 2, Matrix 2, etc.   It isn't a game breaker, it's just a different feeling provided.

[Sniper11709]

uberdowzen wrote...

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

uberdowzen wrote...

Hmm. Just out of interest, are you an Aussie? Totally cool if you don't want to answer, just wonderin'.

American. Do Aussies even have the same currency?

Yeah, they use dollars. I just realised that you have the 360 version of ME2 which is why it cost $80. I was just confused as to why you'd payed so much. My bad.

I wish we paid only $80, it's $120 for us actually.

[Icinix]

Sniper11709 wrote...

uberdowzen wrote...

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

uberdowzen wrote...

Hmm. Just out of interest, are you an Aussie? Totally cool if you don't want to answer, just wonderin'.

American. Do Aussies even have the same currency?

Yeah, they use dollars. I just realised that you have the 360 version of ME2 which is why it cost $80. I was just confused as to why you'd payed so much. My bad.

I wish we paid only $80, it's $120 for us actually.

Yeah, the price we pay does not just equal exchange rates. <_<
We get ripped off so bad in the gaming world.
It's sad that it's cheaper to buy overseas and ship it here than to go to the local store.

[Sniper11709]

tonnactus wrote...

And when it comes to gameplay, i still dont understand what Mass Effect 2 did so much better then the first one. The enemies you encounter are boring as hell.The enemy biotics are just some silly warpbots.
The only difference between an exclipse vanguard and the commando is brickwall of armor the commando has.They use shotguns at all ranges,what makes them a joke.
They are slow,not fast and agile like in the first game.
The same is true for krogans.
Techs only use incinerate and sometimes the drone.
Only thing that improves is the damage they did with shooting,and that is only true for the enemies with assault rifles.

I'm sorry but we must be playing different games.

And what were ME1s Biotics, they were worse seeing as they couldn't even fire their guns most of the time
I now target enemy's with shotguns first because if they hit me i'm going down fast unlike the first game where it took multiple shotguns to take me down.
The armor for commandos means certain ability's are no longer effective and give them another health bar.
Huh? the enemys are much more challenging in ME2 so i don't need them running around faster.
Krogans are bloody dangerous and make me retreat in ME2 unlike ME1 where i was like "oh look a big massive target time for some fu, wait never mind it's dead"
And your complaint here is? i've ssen them using their guns but they are meant to use their powers primarily.
And this comment is beyond what i'm even going to consider responding to.

Modifié par Sniper11709, 06 mai 2010 - 01:11 .

[tonnactus]

Sniper11709 wrote...


I'm sorry but we must be playing different games.

And what were ME1s Biotics, they were worse seeing as they couldn't even fire their guns most of the time

Yes,we must play different games or at least at different difficulties.Asari commandos in the first game use assault rifles and pistols,and markmen combined with warp and throw were more deadly  then this jokes we have now.
Korgans?Fast chargers,used assault rifles and and shotguns.


Krogans now?Slow and dumb.Use shotguns at all ranges,even their charge doesnt deal impressive damage anymore,even on insanity.

It seems that you doesnt want to realize how much enemies sucks now.

[Icinix]

I have to weigh in on this. Krogan in ME1 were pains in the arses, they charged, activated immunity, recharged like crazy when they went down the first time. Krogan in ME2 are much easier to face.



I hated them in ME1. That one room on Feros where you had to retrieve the data from the terminal, and I think there were four of them in there. That was a pain the first few times I played it.

[Jebel Krong]

tonnactus wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...
 the fact that mass effect 2 has sold more than double mass effect 1, kinda tells us they're going in the right (and natural) direction.

What fact?? I still miss a seriuos source for this claim.

try looking then. EA's final quaterly report is out on the 11th anyway.

[Darth Drago]

tonnactus wrote...

Yes,we must play different games or at least at different difficulties.Asari commandos in the first game use assault rifles and pistols,and markmen combined with warp and throw were more deadly then this jokes we have now.
Korgans?Fast chargers,used assault rifles and and shotguns.

Krogans now?Slow and dumb.Use shotguns at all ranges,even their charge doesnt deal impressive damage anymore,even on insanity.

It seems that you doesnt want to realize how much enemies sucks now.

-In ME3 or a ME2 expansion we had better see how bad ass Asari commando’s are supposed to be. In ME1 we got a good idea on their potential but I felt they were still kind of weak once you learned how to fight them. To bad their biotic powers would end up being messed up now.

The Krogans in ME1 were a menace to be feared just like they should be. They were a pain to kill and they actually charged at you fast, not the slow plodding stroll they call a charge we got in ME2.

[Jebel Krong]

Icinix wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...
(SNIP) Mass Effect 2 is missing that kind of resolution to its final showdown battle to make it feel close to being dramatic or even epic on any level. 

I love both Mass Effects, think they're both fantastic games and dare I say it, masterpieces in their genres.  But this comment I will back till judgement day and then sometimes after.

Epic, Grand, Sprawling, Open, Vast.  However many superlatives along those lines, ME2 was lacking it.  It was an awesome game, but it was awesome while lacking that epic feeling that ME1 did manage to capture.

It was better in so many ways, but it just didn't capture that feeling.  I don't know if it was the story that did it, or if it was the combination of everything it changed / removed from the first game and was an unfortunate by product.

However, most middle parts of a trilogy don't have that epic feeling.  Empire Strikes Back, Back to the Future 2, Matrix 2, etc.   It isn't a game breaker, it's just a different feeling provided.

collector ship and station at the end were both more open, sprawling and vast than anything in me1. me2 was just as epic as me1 in every way and combat was miles better and much more satisfying (and balanced - for those people talking about krogans).

[tonnactus]

[quote]Jebel Krong wrote...

[quote]tonn

try looking then. EA's final quaterly report is out on the 11th anyway.

[/quote]
The one who claim something have to name a source,not i have to search for it.This is a etiquette in all forums i know.

[Mister Mida]

Icinix wrote...

I have to weigh in on this. Krogan in ME1 were pains in the arses, they charged, activated immunity, recharged like crazy when they went down the first time. Krogan in ME2 are much easier to face.

I hated them in ME1. That one room on Feros where you had to retrieve the data from the terminal, and I think there were four of them in there. That was a pain the first few times I played it.

I agree. Krogan in ME2 are ****'s compared to those in ME1. Back in ME1, the last thing you wanted was a krogan running towards you and smash his rifle/shotgun in your face.

[Iakus]

Darth Drago wrote...

DarthRomance wrote...

I am a little disappointed in the story. The revelations were not as mindblowing as ME1 nor as emotional. Of course, Virmire is one of the greatest levels in video game history so it is hard to top that.

-I agree on the disappointing story, ME2 really has no main story. A main story is something that should take up most of your time or at least be reminded about it a lot at every turn. In ME1 every encounter with the Geth did just that.

*some spoilers below if you haven’t played the game*

ME2 is nothing but a collection of short stories with the main plotline used as filler if you look at it as a book containing a collection of short stories that feature Commander Shepard.

The chapters would be (and actually are):
1. Save Joker- intro prologue
2. Awakening- (meet Jacob and Miranda)
3. Freedom's Progress- main quest
4. The Professor
5. Archangel
6. The Convict
7. The Warlord
8. The Veteran- would only be a few pages at most.
9. The Master Thief- would only be a few pages at most.
10. Over the Horizon- main quest
11. The Assassin
12. The Justicar
13. Tali
14. Collector Ship- main quest
15. Garrus: Eye for an Eye
16. Grunt: Rite of Passage
17. Jack: Subject Zero
18. Jacob: The Gift of Greatness
19. Miranda: The Prodigal
20. Mordin: Old Blood
21. Samara: The Ardat-Yakshi
22. Tali: Treason
23. Thane: Sins of the Father
24. Zaeed: The Price of Revenge
25. Kasumi: Stealing Memory
26. Reaper IFF- main quest
27. Legion: A House Divided
28. Suicide Mission- main quest

All that came down to:
1 intro prologue short story
7 great character short stories that came in 2 parts (for those you recruit and their loyalty missions)
3 short stories featuring Jacob and Miranda (Awakening and their loyalty missions),
2 decent short stories for Zaeed and Kasumi with a very short teaser story for each earlier in the book (no recruiting mission)
1 so-so short story for Legion (only get a loyalty mission)
5 short stories about Collectors and their connection to the Reaper’s.
-Morinth doesn’t even get her own story at all, she just appears in Samara‘s second part.

That’s not a good balance at all. Yes, its true that a good chunk of the game is about getting your team formed to fight the Collectors in something considered a suicide mission. But when the main collector threat is reduced to a few little encounters and a final battle that really isn’t all that good nor as suicidal as it was hyped to be, it makes all that time recruiting your team and doing their loyalty missions feel like a waste of time.

Maybe if the final Suicide Mission was twice as long with a few sub boss fights, like a praetorian for example, that would have helped. Or if there was an actual threat and certainty that squad members will die. There is no Virmire like moment where you had to choose who lived or died and therefore ME2 had no real sense of danger.

Consider if in Star Wars Episode 2 if all the Jedi in the Geonosis attack lived, in The Dirty Dozen if all of convicts lived through their mission or in The Seven Samurai (or the American version The Magnificent Seven) if all of the heroes lived protecting the village? Mass Effect 2 is missing that kind of resolution to its final showdown battle to make it feel close to being dramatic or even epic on any level.

Thank you.  This sums up the single biggest problem I have with Mass Efect 2 perfectly.  ME1 was a vast, epic story, while ME2 was a bunch of short adventures, almost an expansion pack to ME1. 

[tonnactus]

Darth Drago wrote...



-In ME3 or a ME2 expansion we had better see how bad ass Asari commando’s are supposed to be.

I doubt this would happen.Several reasons: The matriarch benezia fight was glitch infested,also some weird things sometimes happen when the player himself use biotics(still),like enemies got stuck in the wall or boxes.
It seems like bioware isnt able to manage or prevent to remove those glitches.
Thats is maybee the main reason biotics got nerfed.

And there are still bugs: I charge a drone/trooper,when i reach the enemy,it stands on a box or in the air.Instant dead most times on insanity. I couldnt charge out of cover on the collector platforms.
Sometimes charge dont work even if the enemy is only 3 m away from me and i have a clear line of sight.
"Cant reach the target".

[A_y0ner_]

Hey guys,

I've read the last few pages (I'm not going to sift through 50 pages to make sure I've read everything) and I absolutely agree with most of you. I feel that, while ME2 improved on a lot of things that  ME1 was weak at, it also took a lot of steps backwards where ME1 was amazing at.

But RPG aside for a moment, I want to discuss something else I feel that ME2 didn't quite get right: Combat.

Now before everyone goes crazy at me ("ME2 was a great shooter blah blah blah"), let me explain. While I feel that the technicalities of combat  in ME2 were excellent, I feel however that the spirit or the way the combat was presented was quite a dissapointment.

My main gripe is this: Combat was presented the same way in every level at any point in the game. A bunch of little blocks would be on the ground for you to take cover in and enemies would start to come at you always in the direction you are facing. Now there are some exceptions but for the most part this is true. So the formula for fighting in the game was always the same. Take cover. Keep looking straight ahead. Shoot. Enemies are always the same. Reapers, mechs, Blue suns etc etc. So some have shields or armor. Big whoop.

To demonstrate my point more clearly, I want to compare ME2's combat with Resident Evil 4. RE4 is one of the top 5 games I have ever played (along with ME1). What I think made it so enjoyable is that at any point in the game you can face something you have never seen before. There are your standard enemies, but there are also mini-bosses which are these really uber tough guys and the regular bosses which are ultra ultra tough guys. Also, more importantly, the level design is always changing, always unique. This ensures that combat always feels fresh.

ME2 had none of this. Enemies were enemies. Period. Now while some enemies were "stronger" all it really boils down to is giving them more bullets--the actual strategy never changes. And the level design. Now while you can fight in a reaper ship or a wharehouse or a collector base ALL THE LEVEL DESIGNS ARE THE SAME. Here are some blocks, take cover behind them and shoot. Who cares if the walls look different? It's what the players interact with that counts.

Anyways, I feel that all these little issues make the atmosphere of the game feel less life-like and more like a video game. Which is a shame because that's one thing I feel that ME1 nailed on the head.

P.S. I know I didn't quite do RE4 justice, so if you have played that game, if you think about it, you can probably figure out (better than how I explained) why RE4 combat was superb and then therefore why ME2 leaves much to be desired.

[uberdowzen]

A_y0ner_ wrote...

Hey guys,

I've read the last few pages (I'm not going to sift through 50 pages to make sure I've read everything) and I absolutely agree with most of you. I feel that, while ME2 improved on a lot of things that  ME1 was weak at, it also took a lot of steps backwards where ME1 was amazing at.

But RPG aside for a moment, I want to discuss something else I feel that ME2 didn't quite get right: Combat.

Now before everyone goes crazy at me ("ME2 was a great shooter blah blah blah"), let me explain. While I feel that the technicalities of combat  in ME2 were excellent, I feel however that the spirit or the way the combat was presented was quite a dissapointment.

My main gripe is this: Combat was presented the same way in every level at any point in the game. A bunch of little blocks would be on the ground for you to take cover in and enemies would start to come at you always in the direction you are facing. Now there are some exceptions but for the most part this is true. So the formula for fighting in the game was always the same. Take cover. Keep looking straight ahead. Shoot. Enemies are always the same. Reapers, mechs, Blue suns etc etc. So some have shields or armor. Big whoop.

To demonstrate my point more clearly, I want to compare ME2's combat with Resident Evil 4. RE4 is one of the top 5 games I have ever played (along with ME1). What I think made it so enjoyable is that at any point in the game you can face something you have never seen before. There are your standard enemies, but there are also mini-bosses which are these really uber tough guys and the regular bosses which are ultra ultra tough guys. Also, more importantly, the level design is always changing, always unique. This ensures that combat always feels fresh.

ME2 had none of this. Enemies were enemies. Period. Now while some enemies were "stronger" all it really boils down to is giving them more bullets--the actual strategy never changes. And the level design. Now while you can fight in a reaper ship or a wharehouse or a collector base ALL THE LEVEL DESIGNS ARE THE SAME. Here are some blocks, take cover behind them and shoot. Who cares if the walls look different? It's what the players interact with that counts.

Anyways, I feel that all these little issues make the atmosphere of the game feel less life-like and more like a video game. Which is a shame because that's one thing I feel that ME1 nailed on the head.

P.S. I know I didn't quite do RE4 justice, so if you have played that game, if you think about it, you can probably figure out (better than how I explained) why RE4 combat was superb and then therefore why ME2 leaves much to be desired.

Having cover sticking out of the ground is much better than in ME1, where half the time there wasn't cover.

[uberdowzen]

tonnactus wrote...

Its hard to take you serious after this post.Adrenaline Rush improves weapon damage til +140 percent if you dont know that.

Firstly, that's Heightened Adrenaline Rush, not standard. Standard is only 100%. Also, that doesn't explain how it's overpowered. Like all the powers, you have a choice whether to use it or another power (soldier's for example gain a great benefit from using ammo powers. You're just stating a number, not actually explaining why it's OP.

[uberdowzen]

tonnactus wrote...

uberdowzen wrote...


1) Feros can be the first world you do, and lift isn't a power you get early on.

Alone through all citadel quests i got acess to lift(level 10-12).So i dont know what you are talking about.

Oh, yeah, you get access to it. Doesn't mean you level it up though does it? I was on my second world before I started putting points into lift.

[uberdowzen]

@ Darth Drago, So it's like a TV series, rather than a movie.

[uberdowzen]

This

[SkullandBonesmember]

Jebel Krong wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...
 the fact that mass effect 2 has sold more than double mass effect 1, kinda tells us they're going in the right (and natural) direction.

What fact?? I still miss a seriuos source for this claim.

try looking then. EA's final quaterly report is out on the 11th anyway.

Dude, he is right. But that brings me to my next point-

Jebel Krong wrote...

ok see you, bye - we don't need you. nor does BW. see they try and cater for gamers who want a rewarding experience, incorporating all their series traits: story, characters, combat, role-playing etc. not those few people who want mass effect to regress to something it never was in the first place, a clunky rpg-only game. the fact that mass effect 2 has sold more than double mass effect 1, kinda tells us they're going in the right (and natural) direction.

Big freaking deal. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it reeks of quality. It's not as if there's too many alternative games story driven fans can turn to. Once that day comes however, since half of Mass Effect fans play it for story first, unless Bioware brings out their A game, they'll see quite a drop in sales from our demographic.

[SkullandBonesmember]

uberdowzen wrote...

Having cover sticking out of the ground is much better than in ME1, where half the time there wasn't cover.

There was PLENTY of and much better cover in ME1. And when there wasn't, it's not like you NEEDED it too much for casual through veteran.

[Vena_86]

Icinix wrote...

It was better in so many ways, but it just didn't capture that feeling.  I don't know if it was the story that did it, or if it was the combination of everything it changed / removed from the first game and was an unfortunate by product.

I'm rather certain that the epic "feeling" which I often see people call it that is missing from ME2 comes indeed from the combination of many things that have been removed, some that have been added and ofcourse the story with the climax.

Gameplay-Elements which I feel are responsible for ME1s grander, more epic feeling:
-elevators, normandy decontamination instead of loadingscreens-> making the game universe feel connected as one large entity as opposed to just "game levels"
-no "mission complete screens" ->these tell you in-your-face that you are just playing a game and further make the game world feel disconnected, split down into little pieces
-party banter or input from you party members during missions, making them feel like characters and not just like interchangable bots with different skills -> believable characters that also react to things on the fly and not only talk in their designated dialog situations create the illusion of a living breathing universe where you as a player are not the center of everything, just because you are the player
-more exploration including random rewards and more freedom of movement -> Again, the game-world feels more like a universe which you are not the center of. In ME2 you just pick up items and move through locations on predefined paths. It feels less like you are exploring/experience the galaxy but more like you go through a check list given to you by the developer.

ME2 makes no secret of it beeing a game. ME1 atleast attempts to take you away from that perception.
I still feel that what I have read on these forums once sums it up pretty good:
"Mass Effect 2 is the better game. Mass Effect 1 is the better experience"

[uberdowzen]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

There was PLENTY of and much better cover in ME1. And when there wasn't, it's not like you NEEDED it too much for casual through veteran.

Ok, half the time is an exaggeration, but for example, I was doing the boss on Noveria last night, and those crates by the steps where you're standing can be destroyed by Biotics. This means that you have to run to the other side of the room to get to the only other crates (which because of the "unsafe" cover in ME1 doesn't protect you all that much) while being slaughtered by asari commandos and Benezia. Yeah, it was definitly a lot better in ME1.