10273 réponses à ce sujet

[SkullandBonesmember]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

You're still avoiding the topic, Good story does not = good game.

No I'm not. I never implied a good story alone made a good game but it goes a long way.

SithLordExarKun wrote...

If you want to play games for story first, go play a JRPG.

More and more and more cop outs, just like the "go read a book" BS. JRPGs most of the time translate horribly because of culture, the voice acting usually sucks, and Persona is the only one that gives you somewhat of an option of what to say, and even then it falls victim to the first 2 killers of any potential a JRPG may have.

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Cute you are passing this off as a fact, do you remember the ME2 suggestions thread? Nobody asked bioware to remove the broken inventory system or lessened some of the RPG elements, nobody asked biowre to turn the whole thing into a "shooter."(As far as i am concerned, its still an RPG but with much more emphasis on combat)

Hell it was most of the regular forum posters that were obsessed with ME1 caling out ME1's broken combat system and asked bioware to improve on it, nobody asked bioware to "make a massive overhaul".

Do me a favour, find the original thread and prove to me that every one posting in that thread were shooter fans asking for an overhaul because i remember posting in that thread and i call BS on this one, you're pulling this out of your arse.

Not only are you going to have to prove that everybody there is a shooter fan, but you are going to have to prove that they asked for a massive "overhaul" as well.

If you read the original thread, many did, but no one asked for a massive overhaul. And if ME1 is a pure story driven game as you said, why would shooter fans bother even playing it? It makes absolutely zero sense.

You seem to misinterpret certain video game fans. If you want to say "RPG fans" complained about the combat, fine. However these are the RPG fans who think combat is JUST AS IMPORTANT as a good story.

I can't think of a single poster asking for a COMPLETE overhaul, but there were dozens and dozens of folks online, whether from the original board or not, who wanted less emphasis on plot and more on combat. For example, total exclusion of romances.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Oh, and as for you saying why would pure shooters play ME1? They saw guns and thought any game with guns NEEDS to play like Halo. It may not have been anywhere near ME2's marketing, but shooters saw the trailer for ME1 and since there were guns, they drooled.

[SithLordExarKun]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...


No I'm not. I never implied a good story alone made a good game but it goes a long way.

I think we have a misunderstanding, that was what i kept emphasizing earlier on, it does go a long way but i already stated how ME2 was a character driven story than an actual main plot story.

You may disagree with this but either way i don't care.

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

More and more and more cop outs, just like the "go read a book" BS. JRPGs most of the time translate horribly because of culture, the voice acting usually sucks, and Persona is the only one that gives you somewhat of an option of what to say, and even then it falls victim to the first 2 killers of any potential a JRPG may have.

Fine let me drop this.

SkullandBonesmember wrote...
You seem to misinterpret certain video game fans. If you want to say "RPG fans" complained about the combat, fine. However these are the RPG fans who think combat is JUST AS IMPORTANT as a good story.

I can't think of a single poster asking for a COMPLETE overhaul, but there were dozens and dozens of folks online, whether from the original board or not, who wanted less emphasis on plot and more on combat. For example, total exclusion of romances.

This is where i disagree, i agree combat is as important as story, but ME2 didn't have a horrible story, it had a generic but decent story line and the better "story" in my personal opinion was from the journey and the character development/interaction.

Anyways i can see you are not interested in "debating" further so i assume we're going to let this slide.


EDIT:

Just to give you a little bit of a better understanding, i wouldn't call my self a shooter fan. I generally prefer RPG's over shooters but i do occasionally enjoy and play shooters as well, you want to classify yourself as the "story RPG driven player" thats fine, i would somewhat prefer to be called the "RPG/shooter" fan meaning my tastes are versatile.

ME2 is still an RPG to me, it just has a much heavier emphasis on combat(less RPG elements) but that doesn't mean the story or character interaction severly lacked out(in my personal opinion), disagree all you want but its clear you prefer it the other way around.

Modifié par SithLordExarKun, 09 mai 2010 - 12:09 .

[Vlud]

I preordered me2 because me1 was magnificent and to support Bioware for the Dragon Age MASTERPIECE. right now i regret buying this 3rd person shooter .. waste of money



guess me3 will be based on the same crap so I won't be paying for it .



oh well , at least they got the first game right . of course me1 needed some work here and there , but this is outrageous

[Videit]

Hey Skull thats me in your signature except that im black, 6'3", 180lbs and when im not drooling over Sploshuns im sitting down reading a book or sipping on a glass of congac reminising about simpler times... yeah simpler times.



I am part of your current generation of gamers and I play any good game that comes out.

[SkullandBonesmember]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Anyways i can see you are not interested in "debating" further so i assume we're going to let this slide.


EDIT:

Just to give you a little bit of a better understanding, i wouldn't call my self a shooter fan. I generally prefer RPG's over shooters but i do occasionally enjoy and play shooters as well, you want to classify yourself as the "story RPG driven player" thats fine, i would somewhat prefer to be called the "RPG/shooter" fan meaning my tastes are versatile.

ME2 is still an RPG to me, it just has a much heavier emphasis on combat(less RPG elements) but that doesn't mean the story or character interaction severly lacked out(in my personal opinion), disagree all you want but its clear you prefer it the other way around.

I'm fine with debating practically anybody on any subject, but it seems you just don't like my responses.

When the combat overshadows everything else, yes, the plot does suffer. And you're right, I do prefer plot/character interaction>combat. Except for something along the lines of Prince Of Persia. Or Fallout 3 but I don't think that counts since I sold my copy because despite having awesome combat, the story sucked and I hated the silent protagonist.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Videit wrote...

Hey Skull thats me in your signature except that im black, 6'3", 180lbs and when im not drooling over Sploshuns im sitting down reading a book or sipping on a glass of congac reminising about simpler times... yeah simpler times.

I am part of your current generation of gamers and I play any good game that comes out.

You're among the many that thinks combat is just as or even more important over plot. I disagree.

[Videit]

Pft... yeah whatever you say just keep judging people its cool.

Modifié par Videit, 09 mai 2010 - 12:18 .

[Tirigon]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

You're among the many that thinks combat is just as or even more important over plot. I disagree.

If it´s a combat game, the combat is more important. If it´s a story-driven game the story is more important.

Sometimes things are THAT easy.....

[Videit]

Simpler times....

[Videit]

Tirigon wrote...

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

You're among the many that thinks combat is just as or even more important over plot. I disagree.

If it´s a combat game, the combat is more important. If it´s a story-driven game the story is more important.

Sometimes things are THAT easy.....

I wonder what kind of games the ME series are...hmmmm could it be both....

[SkullandBonesmember]

Videit wrote...

Pft... yeah whatever you say just keep judging people its cool.

I like story and I'm judging people?

Tirigon wrote...

If it´s a combat game, the combat is more important. If it´s a story-driven game the story is more important.

Sometimes things are THAT easy.....

I expect a sequel to a game that focused the most on story as opposed to the combat mechanics to be focused the most on story as well.

Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 09 mai 2010 - 12:23 .

[SithLordExarKun]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Anyways i can see you are not interested in "debating" further so i assume we're going to let this slide.


EDIT:

Just to give you a little bit of a better understanding, i wouldn't call my self a shooter fan. I generally prefer RPG's over shooters but i do occasionally enjoy and play shooters as well, you want to classify yourself as the "story RPG driven player" thats fine, i would somewhat prefer to be called the "RPG/shooter" fan meaning my tastes are versatile.

ME2 is still an RPG to me, it just has a much heavier emphasis on combat(less RPG elements) but that doesn't mean the story or character interaction severly lacked out(in my personal opinion), disagree all you want but its clear you prefer it the other way around.

I'm fine with debating practically anybody on any subject, but it seems you just don't like my responses.

When the combat overshadows everything else, yes, the plot does suffer. And you're right, I do prefer plot/character interaction>combat. Except for something along the lines of Prince Of Persia. Or Fallout 3 but I don't think that counts since I sold my copy because despite having awesome combat, the story sucked and I hated the silent protagonist.

I will apologize for being a jack ass earlier, but i felt you were being hostile and tried to challenge me earlier but there's no point in talking about it, whats done is done and just have to move forward.

[Videit]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Videit wrote...

Pft... yeah whatever you say just keep judging people its cool.

I like story and I'm judging people?

Yes, I hadnt said that I thought story was just as important as combat, yet because I said I was of your so called current generation of gamers cause I currently play games you to assumed for me that I thought story was just as important as combat.  Which totaly is the case in an Action RPG... I mean we are playing a game here.

[Videit]

I was just trying to lighten the mood anyways.



Simpler times....

[KitsuneRommel]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

I expect a sequel to a game that focused the most on story as opposed to the combat mechanics to be focused the most on story as well.

Except that's not what ME1 really was.

[Videit]

Let him believe what he wants cause your not gonna change his mind. The story in ME1 had more plot and the story in ME2 was more character driven. I am not that concerned with ME1 or ME2 anymore most of what I want is ME3 to be full of win.



Story, combat and innovation ftw!

[Videit]

Pew pew!

[SithLordExarKun]

pew pew pew

[KitsuneRommel]

Videit wrote...

Story, combat and innovation ftw!

I like this Krogan, he understands!

[Videit]

Its funny cause I think that story in an RPG and in Mass Effect is hella important and these games wouldnt be the same without it. Heck I play PnP D&D and our group goes whole sessions without combat. I just cant stand RPG snobs and these boards are full of em. People who keep wanting ME3 to be ME1 again for one reason or another instead of it being ME3. I do think however I understood the story telling in ME2 and some didnt. Mostly the game and Bioware I think needs to look forward despite people who want it to go back to the way things were and dont understand that some RPG's are changing. Of course that doesnt mean things should be sacrificed like story but it does mean that maybe the story and RPG elements can be done in different ways.  Take it or leave it.

Modifié par Videit, 09 mai 2010 - 01:19 .

[bjdbwea]

What's an RPG snob? Is that what you call people who demand a proper story and gameplay beyond pew-pew?

[KitsuneRommel]

bjdbwea wrote...

What's an RPG snob? Is that what you call people who demand a proper story and gameplay beyond pew-pew?

I guess you should have started demanding that before ME1. *ka-ching*

You know how many feel that Empire Strikes Back is the best of the Star Wars movies? Now compare it to New Hope.

New Hope had an epic story of saving the princess and vanquishing the evil while Empire Strikes Back had a lot more "episodic" feel to it.

First there was the ice planet Hoth episode, then the escape with Millennium Falcon into the asteroid field, then Luke going with R2D2 to Dagobah to train, then the Millennium Falcon group going to the Cloud City and the final showdown when Luke tries to save them. You knew you were watching a middle of a trilogy.

Now what made ESB REALLY the best of the Star Wars movies? Characters. It was a lot more character driven story than the first one. Instead of the blandish stereotypes they were in NH they had grown interesting and multi-faceted (for a space opera anyway). Funny thing is that ESB even got pretty mixed reviews in the beginning.

[TJSolo]

Videit wrote...

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

When an RPG and FPS or TPS is combined, there is bound to be friction. As I've said before, shooter fans and story driven fans can't and do not mesh.

Lies!!!

The Mass Effect series is an Action RPG so thise things should mesh and do very well for me in both games, they just do it differently.

That quote is about fans not the genres.
Differently is the issue. I brought ME1 at launch knowing it was not a real shooter but was an RPG that used guns. I was 100% fine with that as I didn't need another shooter game, I wanted to play an RPG.
Now getting ME2 and them doing it differently; I now have ME2 being much more of a shooter, so much so in fact I don't feel satisifed with the amount of RPG offered. So instead of having COD for my shooter and ME for my RPG I have 2 shooters and have to look for another game to fill the RPG spot.

The amout of focus on the shooter aspect can be a turn off for people that prefered the story aspect because the story is not as strong or cohesive anymore.

[AlanC9]

KitsuneRommel wrote...
Funny thing is that ESB even got pretty mixed reviews in the beginning.

I'm glad somebody besides me remembers that.  I actually thought that the NYT review of ME2 is kind of like their review of ESB, except that the ME2 reviewe is a good deal more positive..