10273 réponses à ce sujet

[SurfaceBeneath]

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

Malidinus has it right. It feels like KotOR II syndrome, if you ask me. A disgrace to the first. Except, y'know, Mass Effect's sequel got it about 50/50. KotOR II got about 80% wrong.

See, now, I don't know how someone can look at the stories of KoTOR 1 and KoTOR 2 and tell me that 1 was better than 2. To me, that's like saying Baldur's Gate 1 had a better story than Planescape: Torment.

I'm pretty certain that most people who have played both games will agree that other merits aside, KoTOR 2's plot and characters had dimensions the first game couldn't even think to touch. It was the "Thinking Man's" Star Wars story. And apparently hated by Lucas and practically not even canon anymore. Which makes me love it all the more.

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 28 février 2010 - 04:03 .

[StreetlightEagle]

The problems I had with ME1 were mostly technical, everything else was solid so I was able to look over them. In ME2, though it was a great shooter, the problems I had were with the story so that is why I think ME1 was a much better game.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

StreetlightEagle wrote...

The problems I had with ME1 were mostly technical, everything else was solid so I was able to look over them. In ME2, though it was a great shooter, the problems I had were with the story so that is why I think ME1 was a much better game.

Ditto, except I didn't have any problem with the story in ME2.

[StreetlightEagle]

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

StreetlightEagle wrote...

The problems I had with ME1 were mostly technical, everything else was solid so I was able to look over them. In ME2, though it was a great shooter, the problems I had were with the story so that is why I think ME1 was a much better game.

Ditto, except I didn't have any problem with the story in ME2.

The problem was there really wasn't much story. In most Bioware games there is an overarching story and you kind of recruit your team along the way. In ME2  recruiting your team WAS the story.

[FlintlockJazz]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

And apparently hated by Lucas and practically not even canon anymore.

It astounds me so much how the creator of a franchise can end up becoming it's bane, and clearly shows that sometimes the best comes when the creator is 'removed from power' so to speak and new writers move in.

[SurfaceBeneath]

StreetlightEagle wrote...
The problem was there really wasn't much story. In most Bioware games there is an overarching story and you kind of recruit your team along the way. In ME2  recruiting your team WAS the story.

Bioware's NPCs have always been my favorite part of their games and the typical "save the world/galaxy" storylines that Bioware has done in every game they've made since BG (seriously, every game) were getting fairly dull to me. I appreciated that they were willing to take a risk and do a story that wasn't like any of their previous games. And there was a "story" it just was, as you said, mostly about Shepard and their crew, with the whole Collector arc being more of a catalyst than the goal.

[StreetlightEagle]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

Malidinus has it right. It feels like KotOR II syndrome, if you ask me. A disgrace to the first. Except, y'know, Mass Effect's sequel got it about 50/50. KotOR II got about 80% wrong.

See, now, I don't know how someone can look at the stories of KoTOR 1 and KoTOR 2 and tell me that 1 was better than 2. To me, that's like saying Baldur's Gate 1 had a better story than Planescape: Torment.

I'm pretty certain that most people who have played both games will agree that other merits aside, KoTOR 2's plot and characters had dimensions the first game couldn't even think to touch. It was the "Thinking Man's" Star Wars story. And apparently hated by Lucas and practically not even canon anymore. Which makes me love it all the more.

Agree with you on the character thing, they were vastly better. But it did not have a better plot... In my opinion, obviously.

[akseltestdrive4]

Hmm KOTOR2's story was better but the game feels like it was incomplete. Random armors and weapons being thrown around?



Thing is. I haven't been this addicted to a single player game for a long time. I've played every character class on insanity and I'm still coming back for more. I found the combat system in ME1 a tad tedious to be honest.



The story being a tad weak has been beaten to death but we all know this is the middle part of a trilogy and it's hard to be a middle child. I like the story but I wish there was more of it.



What I found lacking though was teammates not saying anything worthwhile in 'cities'. What's the point of bringing them to the hub worlds if they don't say anything? I wish they brought back the KOTOR conversation options where teammates would actively comment or react to your choices.

[SurfaceBeneath]

akseltestdrive4 wrote...

Hmm KOTOR2's story was better but the game feels like it was incomplete. Random armors and weapons being thrown around?

That's because it was

Lucasarts gave Oblivion exactly 1 year after the release of the first game to make KoTOR 2 and this was Oblivion's first project since their startup as a company. There was an absolutely tragic amount of content that was cut from it to make the deadline.

[Commander Darmok]

I'd add to the discussion, but after my third run, I'm itching to get back into it. Again. I think I'll start a fresh ME1 character to import so I can wait for the hammerhead. Sorry to everyone who didn't enjoy it - you're missing out.

[yoomazir]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

akseltestdrive4 wrote...

Hmm KOTOR2's story was better but the game feels like it was incomplete. Random armors and weapons being thrown around?

That's because it was

Lucasarts gave Oblivion exactly 1 year after the release of the first game to make KoTOR 2 and this was Oblivion's first project since their startup as a company. There was an absolutely tragic amount of content that was cut from it to make the deadline.

Obsidian, not Oblivion

[leprechaun25]

I just finished ME1 a few days ago. Never played it when it came out, but after I read the reviews for ME2, I decided I needed to play the first one before I played the second. ME1 is one of my favorite games of all time, right alongside Dragon Age. The story in those two games is better than 99% of movies and would be worth watching even without playing the game.



I've only started ME2 yesterday, but I'm very impressed with some things so far. The graphics and sound on my PC are insane. I have a fairly new system and the visuals actually make me stop and just look around sometimes, like at the club early on.



Sound is something I usually never notice, but the sound in ME2 is easily the best I've ever heard. I only have a 2.1 speaker/sub setup, but the voices are incredibly crisp/detailed, and the sound positioning is on another level. I can pinpoint people's position when they speak to my left/right/behind very accurately.



So far I like the story, but it's early. Still, they start you off with some very intriguing developments that have a lot of potential. The opening is pretty A+ on the drama you have to admit.



The only gripe I share with some here is that the loot system and no crouch is somewhat weird. I may grow to like it, but for now it's not clearly worse or better.

[StreetlightEagle]

Commander Darmok wrote...

I'd add to the discussion, but after my third run, I'm itching to get back into it. Again. I think I'll start a fresh ME1 character to import so I can wait for the hammerhead. Sorry to everyone who didn't enjoy it - you're missing out.

By saying it was a disappointment I'm in no way saying I didn't enjoy it. It will still probably be my game of the year, in fact it was probably a better game than ME1 if we're talking in terms of gameplay. However, it just didn't live up to the narrative masterpiece that was Mass Effect.

[addiction21]

PilotJoe wrote...

snip

Expectations are silly that way. I try to never let mine get to high for that new whaever I am waiting for. Like movies for example. I remember all the buzz from my friends when they heard about the G.I. Joe movie. Talking about it like it would be some masterpiece of character development, story, plot and dialogue. No matter how many times I said "its a summer blockbuster movie based of a childrens cartoon whose sole purpose was to sell toys" they all kept acting and talking about how it would bring back those feelings of amazement when they were kids watching.
Needless to say they were all upset and angered how it ruined the franchise and it was the worst movie they had ever seen yet, while I just did my "meh, it was a good action flick".

[Spectre_Moncy]

I really enjoyed ME2 Looking forward to my 2nd play-through

[MerinTB]

I thoroughly enjoyed ME2, at least as much as ME1.



If I have one minor complaint (and it's minor), other than just wanting there to have been more (weapons, powers, levels, side missions), it is that I disliked the couple times in the game where suddenly, arbitrarily it felt, the Illusive Man forces you on missions. You are locked out of flying anywhere and have to talk to him - I'd rather have finished some side stuff first then got to him.

It may sound nit-picky, but if I was going to be forced on a mission at a given time - just force me all the way. Have the previous mission or whatever end that triggers the HAVE TO GO mission, and just GO on that mission instead of having the ability to run all over the ship and feel trapped.



Like I said, it's minor. If something was that urgent it should have just been forced on us like all the mission debriefings, IMO.



But it definitely is too minor a thing to have done more that slightly annoy me.

[BitterSweetAddiction]

I loved Mass Effect 2....screamed at the ending cutscene cliffhanger until I was hoarse but loooved it.

[TJSolo]

BitterSweetAddiction wrote...

I loved Mass Effect 2....screamed at the ending cutscene cliffhanger until I was hoarse but loooved it.

Yes the cliffhanger was awesome, too bad I have been on that clifferhanger since the end of ME1.

[Darth Drago]

About the villains in both games. I preferred the ones in ME1 more overall but both games had good ones.

In ME1

-Saren was the misguided villain. He wanted to help the galaxy but ended up turning into the bringer of its destruction if he had succeeded. He was also someone you could fight.

-Benezia was the same way. She fell under the spell of indoctrination. I do wish we could have seen her more though, the one real encounter we have with her just seemed a let down in that it was the first time we see and fight her as Shepard.

-Sovereign was pretty cool. He was like the (to be) Emperor in Star Wars Episode 1 and 2, manipulating people to get to the Citadel. Even beating him you knew he was just the first of many Reapers that are on the way. And yes he was also someone you could actually defeat in the game.

-The Geth they were everywhere and to me that was a good thing. Since it put a perspective that no matter if your doing all the side quests they were out there and in that the main threat of the game was always slapped in your face when you encountered them.

In ME2

-Harbinger I really didn’t like. I hated the annoying dialog he would rant off in every fight he “took control” of some collector. If he was directly talking to me in my mind then I wish the writers would have added some sort of dialog or something about it. If he was actually vocal so that my companions could hear it as well then I with several of them would have had a line like “I wish he would just shut up” or “he’s bark is probably worse than his bite”. The worse part was that he was completely behind the lines and you could not even have a dialog with him.

-The Collectors were interesting (and with a tragic past) but not to the standards of the Geth in the first game. I really would have liked to run into them more either in a few more (missing) main quest missions or better yet in side quest ones. Even fighting them in their home turf I felt there just wasn’t enough of them to kill.

-The Illusive Man is the bigwig of Cerberus so of course he’s more evil than good even if he claims to have humanities best interests at heart. I felt after playing my first run in the game for a while that the into bit him and Miranda was more sinister than just idle dialog. I still have my beliefs that TIM may have “leaked” info on where the old Normandy was. I have to admit I got more satisfaction choosing the paragon decision (about the final battle location) with Miranda in my group than I did beating all of the Collectors and their “pet project”. He was more like the Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files, always knowing whets going on and manipulating people to meet his goals.


*now to go back to where I left off at in here before I fell asleep last night. Good job everyone for keeping it civil with valid points on both sides of the topic. *

[lukandroll]

Things I'd like to see in ME3, or at least just been evaluated by the team

1) Items and Customization. Mods in armors and guns needs to come back. I'm not saying that I'd like the same copy paste mods that ME1 had. Make it more original, like mods in KOTOR worked out. Give the player the choice of being real different from each others. Also there should be some penalties for extreme damage mods, like overheating or making the gun jam, IDK.
Armor for the party need to return.
I love the new armor system, but, there should be more parts to choose from, and these parts need some stats to really show of which is better for every situation. Because right now its more like it offers nothing but cosmetic changes, and you end up choosing which looks better.
The same can be applied to guns, there should be more to chose from, maybe include some uniques that are real hard to get, like defeating some ultra difficult crime lord boss and found out that he was using a gun that was modded to kill soldiers with heavy armor, or whatever.

2) Researching. This need to be completely revamped, because right now is as generic as you can get. IDK, maybe you could found some parts on the planets that could be researched for some unique and better weapon/armor mods. Make the process more interesting than just applying an 10% more damage.

3) Encourage exploration. Give the player a reward for really looking on the levels. This could be made in terms of new items, logs, information, aditional quest, etc.
The mako as paintfull as it was for some people, for other it gave the game a really unique feeling, wandering harsh lands, investigating what could have happen with the settlers, etc. Maybe it was just the illusion of exploration, but it somehow worked for some.
We'll have to wait to see what the hammerhead brings on these aspects.

4) Skills, Perks, Talents. I'll really like to see these come back. Weapon specialization in ME1 was great IMO, It gave you the chance to make more unique characters as well. Maybe the problem was the gameplay, and not the skills per se.
Armor specialization also needs a comeback. Its silly that they scrapped that system altogether, when this gave ME1 a more balanced feeling about each class. For instance give the player what kind of Soldier he want to be on paper, a AR type of guy, a Shotgun rush type, etc. Then make every weapon mastery really stand out in battle.

5) Immersion. Things like the decontamination chamber, the elevators, the absolutely no loading screens, gave the game a seamless feeling that you were in a real crafted world. In ME2 these things are taken less seriously. The mission completed stuff, you can't enter the Normandy without docking off, the new rapid trans system, the "press f to quit"; all these things make the game feels more like a "game" than an experience, every time I see one of these things, it breaks the immersion completely for me.

Modifié par lukandroll, 28 février 2010 - 06:00 .

[StreetlightEagle]

ME1 ending: Awesome! the Reapers are coming from dark space to attack galaxy, I'm going to have to gather a powerful army to defeat them!



ME2 ending: Awesome! the Reapers are coming from dark sp.... Wait a minute...

[AlanC9]

I'm pretty certain that most people who have played both games will agree that other merits aside, KoTOR 2's plot and characters had dimensions the first game couldn't even think to touch. It was the "Thinking Man's" Star Wars story. 

Well, that's just it. The SW universe isn't one that's really suited to being thought about. It works better if you don't. KotOR 2  is Star Wars for people who don't like Star Wars all that much .