10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

TJSolo wrote...

iakus wrote...


Meh, when I play a game like that I just pretend the protagonist has MY voice.

I can see why voice acting is doable for the protagonist in ME, where you're really playing a specific character, just male or female, and other games like Dragon Age, with fully a half dozen different possible people to play, plus male/female variations.  Although DAO does have the advantage of playing out your background story.  Imagine if In Mass Effect you could play out Elysium, Akuze, or Torfan as the game's prologue!

If we could have played Akuze it would have made what ME2 did to that orgin even harder to ignore or gloss over.

You have a point, there, I'm sad to say

[SkullandBonesmember]

AlanC9 wrote...

I wasn't clear. I saw that it started with your bad idea. But how come people kept talking about DA?

Because my response spawned a response which spawned a response ad nauseum?

AlanC9 wrote...

Baldur's Gate, which I guess you missed , since the series wrapped in 2001. If you're going to talk about RPGs generally, you should at least know what the significant ones were.

Why can't I be well aware of Baldur's Gate but not know what BG stands for? <_<

[SkullandBonesmember]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Pokemon is surprisingly deep

Never said it was or wasn't, just that it was one of the first games I played and a lot of people consider it an RPG.

Though it's just about as deep as headshots.

[uberdowzen]

Wow, it's amazing how all the forums about whether ME1 or ME2 is better all seem to devolve into flinging insults around.

[Onyx Jaguar]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Pokemon is surprisingly deep

Never said it was or wasn't, just that it was one of the first games I played and a lot of people consider it an RPG.

Though it's just about as deep as headshots.

You know, you've said you've played Pokemon but I can't see how far you would have gotten in it if you think it is "just about as deep as headshots"

[SkullandBonesmember]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

You know, you've said you've played Pokemon but I can't see how far you would have gotten in it if you think it is "just about as deep as headshots"

Well, since almost everything you post responding to me is dripping in sarcasm, unless you put a PS at the end pointing so out, or use sarcasm as a tag as I do, I assume the worse given your consistency.

I was implying Pokemon was no more or less deep compared to ME2 because of the focus on combat.

[uberdowzen]

@ Onyx Jaguar, Don't feed the troll.

[Onyx Jaguar]

ME needs more Armor types

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 11 mai 2010 - 06:08 .

[AlanC9]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Why can't I be well aware of Baldur's Gate but not know what BG stands for? <_<

So you knew I was referring to an RPG when I wrote "BG", and you had heard of Baldur's Gate, but somehow you couldn't figure out what "BG" stood for? I assumed  you must not have been familiar with Baldur's Gate if you couldn't figure out the reference. My bad.

[TJSolo]

uberdowzen wrote...

Wow, it's amazing how all the forums about whether ME1 or ME2 is better all seem to devolve into flinging insults around.

@ Onyx Jaguar, Don't feed the troll.

That answers your question. When people are no longer able to communicate in a debate or admit the other side has a point some resort to name calling.

[SkullandBonesmember]

uberdowzen wrote...

@ Onyx Jaguar, Don't feed the troll.

Like I said a while ago. Between joining and participating on the original boards, which I culminated 500+ posts in 1 month before it being archived, and here, I'VE been thorough enough to prove I'm not a troll.

AlanC9 wrote...

So you knew I was referring to an RPG when I wrote "BG", and you had heard of Baldur's Gate, but somehow you couldn't figure out what "BG" stood for? I assumed  you must not have been familiar with Baldur's Gate if you couldn't figure out the reference. My bad.

What makes you think I knew you were referring to an RPG?

[uberdowzen]

TJSolo wrote...

uberdowzen wrote...

Wow, it's amazing how all the forums about whether ME1 or ME2 is better all seem to devolve into flinging insults around.

@ Onyx Jaguar, Don't feed the troll.

That answers your question. When people are no longer able to communicate in a debate or admit the other side has a point some resort to name calling.

The wikipedia definition of troll (I've bolded the relevant part):

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional  response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

I'm pretty sure that using either "the term that shall not be mentioned" or "headshots" (which is referring to the whole "gamers who like ME2 are obssessed with headshots and the thing that shall not be mentioned" mentality) is meant to p**s off people. Best way to stop a troll, don't feed it.

[Terror_K]

I think the main point some of us are trying to make is that ME2 was designed to appeal more to the "'Sploshun" crowd than the first game was, and thus was far shallower and overly simple for it. This doesn't automatically mean that all those who like ME2 or think its better are part of this crowd though. When trying to make a game more mainstream they are, after all, trying to get as many people in as possible, so of course they're not solely going for the 'Sploshun fan and only the 'Sploshion fan, but quite often mainstreaming does mean lowering ones standards to appeal to Common Joe.

But also keep in mind, for some of you on the other side of the fence, that just because a person complains about ME2 being dumbed down more for the shooter crowd that that doesn't also automatically mean that said person wants a turn-based, isometric, dice-roll fest filled with more stats than the contents of all the accounting firms in the world put together. Many of us simply want a better balance, and many of us wouldn't have been so annoyed if the changes hadn't been taken to such extremes. Some ideas with ME2 were good on paper as a concept, but were simply taken too far in execution. That said, others were horrible even as a concept.

The point is, one needs to find a good balance when marrying two genres together like this, and a lot of us feel that ME2 didn't get that balance, and that ME1 was actually closer to it.

Modifié par Terror_K, 11 mai 2010 - 06:57 .

[SkullandBonesmember]

uberdowzen wrote...

The wikipedia definition of troll (I've bolded the relevant part):

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional  response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

I'm pretty sure that using either "the term that shall not be mentioned" or "headshots" (which is referring to the whole "gamers who like ME2 are obssessed with headshots and the thing that shall not be mentioned" mentality) is meant to p**s off people. Best way to stop a troll, don't feed it.

Dude. I hate what ME2 has made of ME1. Even called it on the original boards. Said if I was wrong I'd make a thread apologizing to Bioware, but I was right. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Unless Bioware makes a conscious effort with their marketing strategy to go a different route with ME3, I refuse to pay for a new copy and I mean it. Another thing I, AND OTHERS have said is we have every right to give Bioware our opinions after forking out 60-80 bucks for their product when Bioware themselves say they're open to changing their games based on fan feedback. Also, I'm here on a DISCUSSION BOARD to give my 2 cents on Mass Effect, and anything else, as almost all other members are. You don't like what I say. Fine. Don't call me a troll.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Terror_K wrote...


I think the main point some of us are trying to make is that ME2 was designed to appeal more to the "'Sploshun" crowd than the first game was, and thus was far shallower and overly simple for it. This doesn't automatically mean that all those who like ME2 or think its better are part of this crowd though. When trying to make a game more mainstream they are, after all, trying to get as many people in as possible, so of course they're not solely going for the 'Sploshun fan and only the 'Sploshion fan, but quite often mainstreaming does mean lowering ones standards to appeal to Common Joe.

But also keep in mind, for some of you on the other side of the fence, that just because a person complains about ME2 being dumbed down more for the shooter crowd that that doesn't also automatically mean that said person wants a turn-based, isometric, dice-roll fest filled with more stats than the contents of all the accounting firms in the world put together. Many of us simply want a better balance, and many of us wouldn't have been so annoyed if the changes hadn't been taken to such extremes. Some ideas with ME2 were good on paper as a concept, but were simply taken too far in execution. That said, others were horrible even as a concept.

The point is, one needs to find a good balance when marrying too genres together like this, and a lot of us feel that ME2 didn't get that balance, and that ME1 was actually closer to it.

You mean two, but this.

Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 11 mai 2010 - 06:54 .

[SkullandBonesmember]

And you know what uberdowzen? Instead of "fun hating moron", call me elitist. Just not troll.

[SuperMedbh]

S&B isn't a troll, he honestly believes ME2 was a step backwards insofar as narrative was concerned. I don't quite get why he wastes time on Bioboard forums whinging about it-- it's not as if Bioware is the only game company out there, vote with your feet and all that. But chacun a son gout, as the Swedes say when they speak French.



Honestly, though, I have to blink a bit when I see this complaint (and it's not just S&. It's as if the complainers have never read anything other than a linear narrative book. I mean, ME2 is basically Canterbury Tales with different goals, different purpose, fewer voiced terminal vowels. Having fun combat doesn't somehow make said narrative disappear.



(And yes, S&B, I know you disagree with me. Thus third person. No need for us to copy paste our earlier dialectic, aminotrite?)

[Videit]

SuperMedbh wrote...


Honestly, though, I have to blink a bit when I see this complaint (and it's not just S&. It's as if the complainers have never read anything other than a linear narrative book. I mean, ME2 is basically Canterbury Tales with different goals, different purpose, fewer voiced terminal vowels. Having fun combat doesn't somehow make said narrative disappear.

Haters gonna hate no matter how you put it though.

Modifié par Videit, 11 mai 2010 - 07:43 .

[AlanC9]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

What makes you think I knew you were referring to an RPG?

Looks like I keep overestimating your ability to follow things. It went like this:

You:  "Because every since I first started playing RPGs, I've always hated silent protagonists, and the experience is always ruined for me."

Me:"How long have you been playing RPGs, anyway? The BG experience was ruined for you?"

What other sort of experience did you think I might have been referring to? Seriously, what went through your head when you read that?

[Videit]

It seems that only one form of storytelling is accepted by certain people.

[SkullandBonesmember]

SuperMedbh wrote...

S&B isn't a troll, he honestly believes ME2 was a step backwards insofar as narrative was concerned. I don't quite get why he wastes time on Bioboard forums whinging about it-- it's not as if Bioware is the only game company out there, vote with your feet and all that. But chacun a son gout, as the Swedes say when they speak French.

Honestly, though, I have to blink a bit when I see this complaint (and it's not just S&. It's as if the complainers have never read anything other than a linear narrative book. I mean, ME2 is basically Canterbury Tales with different goals, different purpose, fewer voiced terminal vowels. Having fun combat doesn't somehow make said narrative disappear.

(And yes, S&B, I know you disagree with me. Thus third person. No need for us to copy paste our earlier dialectic, aminotrite?)

First of all, regardless of our different viewpoints, I appreciate the first sentence a lot. Sent a friend request. With that said, how many games within the past few years can you list that gives the player even a LITTLE BIT of freedom with what to say and multiple endings? Off the top of my head, the only developers I can think of are Quantic Dream and Atlus. It's not like Bioware has a lot of competition. So like I've said a million times before, despite me being part of a huge demographic, there are hardly any games that cater to our tastes. And about your book point, DID you watch the clip I provided of Sci Vs. Fi?

AlanC9 wrote...

What other sort of experience did you think I might have been referring to? Seriously, what went through your head when you read that?

Drew a blank. So very sorry.

[KitsuneRommel]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

By going out of your way to
select the Insanity difficulty, you're asking to get killed a lot. Which
do you want more? "Motivation" or 'SPLOSHUNS?

I've only
died three times so far. The bar fiasco, one rocket to the face when my
computer started stuttering and last time was when I thought
"Ok maybe my guns don't even dent those Geth Colossi" and promptly
ordered a charge.

Darth Drago wrote...

-I do the exact thing not just with the Geth outposts but on most outside locations, crouch and all.

I liked this kind of combat using the sniper rifle. Sniping a target that’s just in range while dodging missile or Geth Colossus attacks that you know can kill you in one hit. Not to mention the game of chicken between you and another sniper to get your shot in before he gets you.

I love playing a sniper in games like Operation Flashpoint, Rainbow Six, etc. Though in those games you usually have to change location after few shots since enemies will try to flank you and you are in big trouble if you stay there. That's why sniping in ME1 is pretty lame. They don't even try to come closer.

Meh, when I play a game like
that I just pretend the protagonist has
MY voice.

Yeah. I don't need to hear character voices to
be able to enjoy books either.

[uberdowzen]

Terror_K wrote...

I think the main point some of us are trying to make is that ME2 was designed to appeal more to the "'Sploshun" crowd than the first game was, and thus was far shallower and overly simple for it. This doesn't automatically mean that all those who like ME2 or think its better are part of this crowd though. When trying to make a game more mainstream they are, after all, trying to get as many people in as possible, so of course they're not solely going for the 'Sploshun fan and only the 'Sploshion fan, but quite often mainstreaming does mean lowering ones standards to appeal to Common Joe.

But also keep in mind, for some of you on the other side of the fence, that just because a person complains about ME2 being dumbed down more for the shooter crowd that that doesn't also automatically mean that said person wants a turn-based, isometric, dice-roll fest filled with more stats than the contents of all the accounting firms in the world put together. Many of us simply want a better balance, and many of us wouldn't have been so annoyed if the changes hadn't been taken to such extremes. Some ideas with ME2 were good on paper as a concept, but were simply taken too far in execution. That said, others were horrible even as a concept.

The point is, one needs to find a good balance when marrying two genres together like this, and a lot of us feel that ME2 didn't get that balance, and that ME1 was actually closer to it.

Dammit, I have to break my promise again...

I don't think that Bioware designed ME2 to drag in the "Common Joe Sploshun Fan" and if they were, then they failed miserably. My Halo lovin', Call of Duty fan friend I suspect would have little to no interest in ME2 (I mean this is the guy who played FO3 for 5 minutes, decided that it was "gay, it's just like your birthday party and ****" and then booted up CoD World at War). I genuinly think that Bioware thought that the majority of ME1 fans would be happy with the changes made in the sequel, and honestly I think they were right.

I also am not a fan of this viewpoint that there's the hardcore gamers who like the finer things (it could almost be called gaming pretention) like Braid and deep complex RPGs and then there are the common gamers who are obssessed with "sploshuns". My problem with this is that we're all gamers and we should be banding together against the real enemies: legislators who try and put forward stupid anti-gaming laws, idiots who don't think that gaming is good enough to be art (like Ebert) and, of course, zombies.

I don't think any of the people who didn't like ME2 are people who want isometric turnbased dice roll fests. I never said that (and I wouldn't because I actually like those old school RPGs), but I do take issue with them saying that ME2 isn't any good. You're simply being inflammatory if you say that it's a bad game (because it isn't by any standard a bad game).

I also agree that fans should put forward their ideas when Bioware has asked for feedback (although, I am in the camp that developers should only listen to their fans to a certain extent, I believe that fans are their own worst enemies) but I don't want Bioware thinking that the majority of people didn't like ME2 because a) I don't want them to revert back to ME1 gameplay for ME3 because I loved ME2 and I think it makes it look like we didn't appreciate them making the game.

[uberdowzen]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

And you know what uberdowzen? Instead of "fun hating moron", call me elitist. Just not troll.

\\

I apologise for calling you a troll, I was just pissed at seeing the word sploshun again. Even if you don't mean it to be inflammatory, I think it has become that way and I really wish you'd stop using it.