10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

Now that I have played both ME and ME2. There was few stuff, what I did not really like.

1. Inventory system was nightmare in ME 1.
Don't get me wrong, I liked ME 1's big variety to customize weapons and armors. But the inventory it self wasn't good at all. I often ended 150 item limit and list was allways full of junk what I had no need at all. So, had to sell stuff and then I hit the 10mil cash limit on my second play. I think customation is VERY important for players, but inventory and item handling should be alot easyer, like it was in ME 2. How ever, customation in ME 2 was too limited. The important part for players is not really the inventory, it's huge variety of customation. I want to find stuff from my travel and able to use them to customize many different stuff.

2. Mining minerals from planets in ME 2
My mouse hand started to hurt from all the mining. There has to be some middle way to do this. In ME 1 it was just too simple, click the planet and it's done. Something between both ME's and what would actually be part of the cinematic gameplay.

3. Forced requirement of squad members in both ME's.
In my opinion player should have choise to not to take them all, if they don't like the squad members attitude. Example in ME 2, I did not want Jack to be part of my missions, because her attitude is just wrong. In my opinion there should be like 10 spot for squad members and 12 possible taken for player. What means player has to make few choises.

Even if I say these stuff, I still think both the games where excelent. I only say these so that game developers can improve ME 3.

Modifié par Lumikki, 13 mai 2010 - 02:43 .

[Terror_K]

ME1's gun choices may not have been terribly interesting, but at least they WERE choices and not just inevitable and limited items you couldn't help but get in the same manner every playthrough.



Again, ME1's system wasn't at fault so much as the items themselves were. It was a solid idea with bad implementation, while ME2's was a bad and shallow idea from the start. I'll give you that ME2's item design was better than ME1's item design, but ME2's items were too limited and the system that surrounded said items is poor. Even then they lack the ability to modify in any manner, while ME1's weapons, as samey as they were, at least had that.

[KitsuneRommel]

Lumikki wrote...

3. Forced requirement of squad members in both ME's.
In my opinion player should have choise to not to take them all, if they don't like the squad members attitude. Example in ME 2, I did not want Jack to be part of my missions, because her attitude is just wrong. In my opinion there should be like 10 spot for squad members and 12 possible taken for player. What means player has to make few choises.

For a long time I thought you could choose not to take any of the aliens from the citadel with you. Then I spoke with Ashley about the aliens on the ship and apparently I had no choice. Udina ordered me to take Tali with us. Udina? Ordering a spectre?

[KitsuneRommel]

Terror_K wrote...

ME1's gun choices may not have been terribly interesting, but at least they WERE choices and not just inevitable and limited items you couldn't help but get in the same manner every playthrough.

Again, ME1's system wasn't at fault so much as the items themselves were. It was a solid idea with bad implementation, while ME2's was a bad and shallow idea from the start. I'll give you that ME2's item design was better than ME1's item design, but ME2's items were too limited and the system that surrounded said items is poor. Even then they lack the ability to modify in any manner, while ME1's weapons, as samey as they were, at least had that.

You don't need to defend ME1 in this case. It was the weapon mods that made them interesting. I don't even understand what was the point of some of the manufacturers. Everything they made were crap.

[Xpheyel]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

You don't need to defend ME1 in this case. It was the weapon mods that made them interesting. I don't even understand what was the point of some of the manufacturers. Everything they made were crap.

Exactly. There is no depth there. Just things with different names. In practice it's purely cosmetic if you find an Avenger III in a locker instead of a Banshee IV. 

ME2 has no good customization (except again cosmetically Shepard's armor) and it gets lambasted for it. This seems like a legitimate complaint to me. A good upgrade/customization system can add a lot to the game. I really hope they put one in ME3.

The main thing to me is that they put in interesting gameplay-impacting choices and not bury them under Avenger/Banshee lewt and inventory screens just cause RPGs are supposed to have lewt and inventory screens.

If they need an inventory to manage all the cool stuff I get to choose between then HUZZAH! Having one interesting decision that impacts my gameplay is better than have two dozen uninteresting ones that make not an iota of difference.

Also it's kind of irritating that ME1 always gets a free pass. "Oh, well if they'd done X, Y, and Z in the old system completely differently it would've been great and that makes it better." Whaaat?

Modifié par Xpheyel, 13 mai 2010 - 03:42 .

[Terror_K]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

For a long time I thought you could choose not to take any of the aliens from the citadel with you. Then I spoke with Ashley about the aliens on the ship and apparently I had no choice. Udina ordered me to take Tali with us. Udina? Ordering a spectre?

You can choose whether to take Wrex and Garrus or not; they are optional squaddies in ME1. Unfortunately ME2 doesn't even take this factor into account when importing (Wrex is dead with no explanation if you never took him as if he died on Virmire, and Garrus is your best buddy and goes on about old times even if you only met him once briefly in the council chambers).

Xpheyel wrote...

Exactly. There is no depth there. Just things with different names. In practice it's purely cosmetic if you find an Avenger III in a locker instead of a Banshee IV. 

And there's just as little (if not less) depth in finding the same weapon in the same place every time that can never be customised and has a completely linear upgrade system. Both systems lack in depth, just in different ways.

Also it's kind of irritating that ME1 always gets a free pass. "Oh, well if they'd done X, Y, and Z in the old system completely differently it would've been great and that makes it better." Whaaat?

ME1 doesn't get a free pass, it just has a system that had potential that failed due to the items themselves.But at least tried to give some depth and had the right idea. ME2's system didn't even try, and scrapped any potential for the simplest solution possible.

The thing is people call ME1's system shallow for having hundreds of guns that are essentially the same rather than a small handful that are different, but essentially what ME2 has done is whittle the ME1 guns down to one each and then add a few more different guns when you look at it. If you stripped the original game of all weapons except for the Spectre ones and any other one manufacturer, removed the modding system and dropped one of each of the Spectre ones at a key area on one of the main quest worlds, you'd essentially have ME2's system right there, albeit with two less categories. When you look at it like that it's pretty clear they simply took stuff away and added nothing but two weapon categories and oversimplification in its place.

[TJSolo]

Xpheyel wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

It was better random, whether it "needed" to be or not. In ME2 there's no surprise or randomness at all... it boring and repetitive. And the omni-gel factor can be easily fixed by utilising ME2's scanning function (one of the few good ideas in the ME2 system). 

ME1's items are no better than the upgrade system from ME2. 

Find item with longer bars, equip item. It has no thought or depth outside the weapon/armor mods.

The fact that I find an Avenger IV in a crate in a play through and buy a Banshee III in some other playthrough is not even remotely interesting or exciting to me because both guns are crap I'm going to replace as soon as the rng smiles on me next. Spectre weapons are the only interesting ones in the entire game and that is solely because they're completely OP with respect to their listed tier and the level you can buy them at.

So in one game I go:
Avenger I
Banshee III
Avenger V
Tsunami VII
HWMA VII

In another game I go:
Avenger I
Avenger II
Banshee IV
Thunder VI
HWMA VII

What difference is there between these playthroughs? Nothing! There is no reason for me to give a rats rear end about any of those guns! It's just Gun Upgrade 1, Gun Upgrade 2,..., Gun Upgrade N, Spectre Weapon. Done. There is nothing there!

I know these are just opinions but since we're just going to keep blindly hurling epithets, ME2 has some interesting gun choices. ME1 has no interesting gun choices. ME2's item design >>> ME1's item design.

'

Yeah every game that has items has progression leading to the best in slot gear.
If you want to ignore the progression it took for you to get there that is your fault as a player. Prove to me the progression doesn't matter and don't use any weapons until you can get Spectre gear. Until then your claim that the progression does not matter in the game is completely fictitious.

Modifié par TJSolo, 13 mai 2010 - 05:16 .

[Iakus]

uberdowzen wrote...

iakus wrote...

uberdowzen wrote...

So I've been playing ME2 for the past few days with the vanguard I just finished up in ME1 and here's the changes I'd make for ME3:

• Ditch, or drastically improve planet scanning
  
  
  
  
• Create a special weapon selection screen rather than just using the standard interface
  
  
  
  
• Downplay the upgrade element (don't remove it though) and give it a special upgrade interface which shows how weapons advance etc (again rather than just using the standard interface)
  
  
  
  
• Stronger plot (almost a cert)
  
  
  
  
• Improve the levelling system (it's not very satisfying at all) specifically, remove the dead levels where you can't level up.
  
  
  
  
• Tie persuades to a power (I was thinking that they could do this Dragon Age style, so a basic persuade requires 1 point in your class power, a slightly harder one require 2 etc, in addition to requiring your paragon/renegade points to be at a certain point)
  
  
  
  
• Expand upon the current weapon system, allowing you to customise the look of weapons and install mods, that you either buy or find, at the start of the mission.
  
  
  
  
• Bring back Omnitools and Biotic amps (maybe just have it so that different amps provide bonuses to different powers)
  
  
  
  
• Helmet Toggle
  
  
  
  
• More sets of armor in the game rather than just DLC.

[/list]I reckon that's about it, if there's something I've forgotten I'll add it.

That's...not a bad list, actually.  I no doubt feel more strongly about certain aspects of it than others, but it's definitely a good starting point.

Thanks, which bits do you feel more strongly about?

Well clearly I feel most strongly about plot and story. I could have forgiven pretty much all the changes if there had been a better story behind ME1.

I'd also like the leveling system to be more interesting and complex. The current way seems too simplistic.

Putting mods back into weapons would also be a good idea. I'd like to be able to customize my weapons to better serve individual playsyles. Rate of fire or stopping power? Ammo capacity or accuracy? Bigger damage or better armor penetration? That sort of thing. Amps and omnitools would probably also fit in this.

Helmet toggles would be nice, but I see as a more cosmetic change. I have no particular problem with planet scanning, though I had no particular problem with the Mako either

Another thing I'd like to see in ME3 are better outfits for squaddies.  Does anyone else thing that the Cerberus uniform makes it look like they ressurected Shepard to win them the World Cup rather than fight the Collectors? And many of the other squaddies...Jacob looks like he needs a cape and cowl, plenty's already been said about Miranda and Samara.  Maybe they were going for a "dark and edgy" look but to me it was closer to "ridiculous" Presentation is important, Bioware!

[Dick Delaware]

The squaddie outfits varied a lot in quality. I can't stand seeing something like Jack or Miranda's outfit because they look so utterly ridiculous. Why couldn't they have it like Shepard where they have a casual outfit for the Normandy and a combat outfit for combat? They don't have to do this for all the party members, (Grunt doesn't need to walk around in jeans and a T-shirt in the Normandy) but this little change would go a long way to making things more believable. If BioWare can whip up shi**y appearance packs, they can make this minor change as well.

Bringing back omni-tools and biotic amps is a great idea too. They can confer different bonuses/penalties to powers, allowing for a tactical trade-off to occur. For instance, a great Infiltrator tech omni-tool might allow you to stay cloaked longer (and potentially get an extra shot in with a sniper rifle) but having a longer cloak time means you need to divert power from your shields, leaving you weak and vulnerable once it's gone.

The casual outfits I liked for the most part. It really goes hand in hand with what kind of character you're playing. My renegade Shep wears the badass orange space outlaw outfit, while my paragon has the long, elegant-looking suit.

Modifié par Dick Delaware, 13 mai 2010 - 05:54 .

[Daewan]

Dick Delaware wrote...
The casual outfits I liked for the most part. It really goes hand in hand with what kind of character you're playing. My renegade Shep wears the badass orange space outlaw outfit, while my paragon has the long, elegant-looking suit.

I did mine in reverse: my renegade shep wore the suit and bossed people around.  My paragon wore the casual colonist clothes and tried to be friendly with everyone.

[Xpheyel]

Terror_K wrote...

Also it's kind of irritating that ME1 always gets a free pass. "Oh, well if they'd done X, Y, and Z in the old system completely differently it would've been great and that makes it better." Whaaat?

ME1 doesn't get a free pass, it just has a system that had potential that failed due to the items themselves.But at least tried to give some depth and had the right idea. ME2's system didn't even try, and scrapped any potential for the simplest solution possible.

The thing is people call ME1's system shallow for having hundreds of guns that are essentially the same rather than a small handful that are different, but essentially what ME2 has done is whittle the ME1 guns down to one each and then add a few more different guns when you look at it. If you stripped the original game of all weapons except for the Spectre ones and any other one manufacturer, removed the modding system and dropped one of each of the Spectre ones at a key area on one of the main quest worlds, you'd essentially have ME2's system right there, albeit with two less categories. When you look at it like that it's pretty clear they simply took stuff away and added nothing but two weapon categories and oversimplification in its place.

No, I see that ME1 has 1 shotgun I upgrade 5-6 times and modify. 
ME2 has 4 shotguns I can pick up over the course of the game, upgrade 5-6 times.

This seems to be what you totally fail to grasp about ME2. There is more than one gun per category and they are different and they usually are useful depending on you class/build/playstyle/preference. ME1 has nothing like this in the weapon selection and only half way done in the modifications.

TJSolo wrote...

Yeah every game that has items has progression leading to the best in slot gear. 
If you want to ignore the progression it took for you to get there that is your fault as a player. Prove to me the progression doesn't matter and don't use any weapons until you can get Spectre gear. Until then your claim that the progression does not matter in the game is completely fictitious.

You're completely off topic.

YES you need to progress through the gun tiers/ranks/whatever. Obviously... I structured my whole post around that. 
NO it doesn't matter what you find in particular. 
I always am just going to find Upgrade 1, Upgrade 2, Upgrade 3,..., Upgrade N. 

It doesn't matter if I find and use a Lancer III at level 13 and use that in one play through vs. if I find and use an Avenger IV at level 15 in another play through. I'm just upgrading to keep up with the auto scaling health. And I have played just going by damage and ignoring the shots/accuracy stats until I got Spectre weapons (cause the highest damage guns in a level range usually have competitive accuracy/shots anyway).

Modifié par Xpheyel, 13 mai 2010 - 06:31 .

[Iakus]

Dick Delaware wrote...

The squaddie outfits varied a lot in quality. I can't stand seeing something like Jack or Miranda's outfit because they look so utterly ridiculous. Why couldn't they have it like Shepard where they have a casual outfit for the Normandy and a combat outfit for combat? They don't have to do this for all the party members, (Grunt doesn't need to walk around in jeans and a T-shirt in the Normandy) but this little change would go a long way to making things more believable. If BioWare can whip up shi**y appearance packs, they can make this minor change as well.

Bringing back omni-tools and biotic amps is a great idea too. They can confer different bonuses/penalties to powers, allowing for a tactical trade-off to occur. For instance, a great Infiltrator tech omni-tool might allow you to stay cloaked longer (and potentially get an extra shot in with a sniper rifle) but having a longer cloak time means you need to divert power from your shields, leaving you weak and vulnerable once it's gone.

The casual outfits I liked for the most part. It really goes hand in hand with what kind of character you're playing. My renegade Shep wears the badass orange space outlaw outfit, while my paragon has the long, elegant-looking suit.

Yeah I could have lived with them having a casual outfit, and real armor for combat missions (though I still can't understand how Samara can be nearly 1000 years old and yet never learned how to operate a zipper)

Grunt in jeans and a T-shirt would be funny though.  What would the shirt say, "Born to bust heads"?

Amps and omnitools:  Exactly!  There's more to combat than "more damage"  and "more shields"

Casual outfits:  I wasn't a big fan of them either.  the default Cerberus uniform like a said looked like Shep (and the rest of the crew) was some sort of sports team.  The other outfits didn't exactly appeal to me either.  I kinda wish the outfits could be customized like the armor.  Then I'd probably have made a duplicate of ME1's simple yet elegant black and grey Alliance uniform (My Shep hated having to work for Cerberus and really missed the Alliance military.  He would have bolted from TIM at the drop of a hat, or even if the hat looked a little unsteady). 

[Dick Delaware]

iakus wrote...
Yeah I could have lived with them having a casual outfit, and real armor for combat missions (though I still can't understand how Samara can be nearly 1000 years old and yet never learned how to operate a zipper)

The asari have not yet developed zipper technology.

iakus wrote...
Grunt in jeans and a T-shirt would be funny though.  What would the shirt say, "Born to bust heads"?

How about "No Fat Chicks"?

iakus wrote...
Amps and omnitools:  Exactly!  There's more to combat than "more damage"  and "more shields"

A good combat system needs variety and trade-offs. Since omni-tools and biotic amps are  around to make powers more powerful, they don't have a ton of variety because that's not what they're meant for (you have weapons for that) but there is the opportunity for a lot of interesting tactical trade-offs like the one I mentioned.

Another example might be a biotic amp that makes your powers more powerful (able to rip through a barriered enemy) but increasing cooldown times and damaging Shepard's health. I base that little part on the lore surrounding L2's who often suffer medical problems even though they're more powerful than L3's.

This kind of stuff would need to be well-balanced, but considering that ME3 will very likely have a similar combat system to ME2 but with more refinements, stuff like this can easily be added. It would make things very interesting and allow for a variety of play styles.

ME2 did this better than ME1 with weapons that handled differently and worked in different situations (esp. heavy weapons) instead of just having longer bars, but more can be done.

iakus wrote...
Casual outfits:  I wasn't a big fan of them either.  the default Cerberus uniform like a said looked like Shep (and the rest of the crew) was some sort of sports team.  The other outfits didn't exactly appeal to me either.  I kinda wish the outfits could be customized like the armor.  Then I'd probably have made a duplicate of ME1's simple yet elegant black and grey Alliance uniform (My Shep hated having to work for Cerberus and really missed the Alliance military.  He would have bolted from TIM at the drop of a hat, or even if the hat looked a little unsteady). 

Didn't like the default Cerberus uniform, but for different reasons. Shep is the boss, he/she should have a distinctive attire. It was the least interesting outfit in the game (Alliance one looked better), but nonetheless I liked the suit outfit and I REALLY liked the orange merc outfit. A scarred up Renegade MaleShep with the merc outfit looks insanely cool and badass.

[TJSolo]

Xpheyel wrote...

You're completely off topic.

YES you need to progress through the gun tiers/ranks/whatever. Obviously... I structured my whole post around that. 
NO it doesn't matter what you find in particular. 

Game A        Game B           Game CAvenger I     Avenger I        Assault Rifle Upgrade 1Banshee III   Avenger II       Assault Rifle Upgrade 2Avenger V     Banshee IV       Assault Rifle Upgrade 3Tsunami VII   Thunder VI       Assault Rifle Upgrade 4HWMA VII      HWMA VII         Assault Rifle Upgrade 5

No your point was that the weapon progression in ME1 has no interesting choices, I am not off topic in calling that complete BS.
The weapons mod system alone surpasses the linear weapon progression ME2 has. The upgrades in ME2 are just linear increases they mirror the various iterations(i, ii,iii...x) found in ME1.
The ME2 gun selection is limited and overly simplified.
Well I will continue to look at my Infiltrator, Sentinel, and Engineer in both games while you continue to say ME1 has no interesting weapon choices.

[FluxDeluxe]

TJSolo wrote...

Xpheyel wrote...

You're completely off topic.

YES you need to progress through the gun tiers/ranks/whatever. Obviously... I structured my whole post around that. 
NO it doesn't matter what you find in particular. 

Game A        Game B           Game CAvenger I     Avenger I        Assault Rifle Upgrade 1Banshee III   Avenger II       Assault Rifle Upgrade 2Avenger V     Banshee IV       Assault Rifle Upgrade 3Tsunami VII   Thunder VI       Assault Rifle Upgrade 4HWMA VII      HWMA VII         Assault Rifle Upgrade 5

No your point was that the weapon progression in ME1 has no interesting choices, I am not off topic in calling that complete BS.
The weapons mod system alone surpasses the linear weapon progression ME2 has. The upgrades in ME2 are just linear increases they mirror the various iterations(i, ii,iii...x) found in ME1.
The ME2 gun selection is limited and overly simplified.
Well I will continue to look at my Infiltrator, Sentinel, and Engineer in both games while you continue to say ME1 has no interesting weapon choices.

sorry to but in here guys but i find both systems fundamentally flawed. Some kind of hybrid of the 2 like say fixed weapons like me2 with loads of customisable upgrades would be the most elegant solution.

[Iakus]

Dick Delaware wrote...

iakus wrote...
Amps and omnitools:  Exactly!  There's more to combat than "more damage"  and "more shields"

A good combat system needs variety and trade-offs. Since omni-tools and biotic amps are  around to make powers more powerful, they don't have a ton of variety because that's not what they're meant for (you have weapons for that) but there is the opportunity for a lot of interesting tactical trade-offs like the one I mentioned.

Another example might be a biotic amp that makes your powers more powerful (able to rip through a barriered enemy) but increasing cooldown times and damaging Shepard's health. I base that little part on the lore surrounding L2's who often suffer medical problems even though they're more powerful than L3's.

This kind of stuff would need to be well-balanced, but considering that ME3 will very likely have a similar combat system to ME2 but with more refinements, stuff like this can easily be added. It would make things very interesting and allow for a variety of play styles.

ME2 did this better than ME1 with weapons that handled differently and worked in different situations (esp. heavy weapons) instead of just having longer bars, but more can be done.

True, I was able to pick the heavy weapon that played best for me (particle beam) but what I liked about ME1 was being able to put in just the right mods to suit me, not just guns with more yellow bars.  I miss the mods more.

Dick Delaware wrote...

iakus wrote...
Casual outfits:  I wasn't a big fan of them either.  the default Cerberus uniform like a said looked like Shep (and the rest of the crew) was some sort of sports team.  The other outfits didn't exactly appeal to me either.  I kinda wish the outfits could be customized like the armor.  Then I'd probably have made a duplicate of ME1's simple yet elegant black and grey Alliance uniform (My Shep hated having to work for Cerberus and really missed the Alliance military.  He would have bolted from TIM at the drop of a hat, or even if the hat looked a little unsteady). 

Didn't like the default Cerberus uniform, but for different reasons. Shep is the boss, he/she should have a distinctive attire. It was the least interesting outfit in the game (Alliance one looked better), but nonetheless I liked the suit outfit and I REALLY liked the orange merc outfit. A scarred up Renegade MaleShep with the merc outfit looks insanely cool and badass.

My Sheps always turn out to be the Paladin of the Spaceways (renegade is just too mean for me ) and the suit looked too much like a doctor or scientist outfit.  Maybe if i was an adept or something like that, but my "canon Shep" is an Infiltrator.

Modifié par iakus, 13 mai 2010 - 07:02 .

[darknoon5]

On topic, I see why people prefer ME1, but I myself prefer ME2.
After playing ME1 yesterday, it felt like a step back in many ways. For one, as an RPG the dialouge is worse, as it lacks interrupts, many of the choices are misleading, and many of the choices say the exact same thing, which annoys me to no end-all these issues are resolved in ME2.
ME2 is simply a much funner and better shooter, so no arguements here. Better AI, less weapons are more as they have a broader variety, and the upgrades are more useful.
On the topic of the mods in ME1, I thought the ammo upgrades in ME1 were better handled. Just makes more sense and the benefits are easier to see, despite clogging up the inventory.
ME2 DOES definetly need more armours, but it already has more weapon and armour models then ME1. Plus, customizable N7 never hurts.
The squad is much better developed, even if some of them are painfully underdeveloped outside of romances (all of which, besides Jacob's, were excellent), however many of the conversations we did have built alot more on the character and their past then in the squadmates in ME1. (Eg. Garrus)
The squadmates also had more depth. The only ME1 squadmate I really grew attatched to was Wrex, and to some extent Garrus and Tali, though Tali was quite annoying in some ways and was practically a walking codex. In ME2, not only does letting Wrex live have benefits to the Krogans and obvious ME3 repercussions, it also adds more interesting dialouge in.
Garrus went from a bro to a badass sniper who was like a Turian brother, and Tali had much more depth, possibly due to the mad fan support. Legion was a very intersting character and showed how much the Geth have to offer, and possible emotions. Mordin and Samara were definetly more intersting then say, Kaidan and Liara.
Exploration in ME1 is sometimes really overhyped. Just the same planet models, a threser maw or two and some mineral reserves. The N7 missions are dull and repeptive, but they do have some good RPG choices.
The ME2 missions are the opposite-better models, more unique but less dialouge and choices. (Only real big choice was the javelin one.)
The suicide mission is amazing. It really is. I always missed how you can only utilize a limited amounts of squadmates in KoTOR, Mass Effect and paticularly Jade Empire, but the suicide mission involves everyone in a realistic way, as well as making you want to try harder in the game so you don't die. It also makes you more attatched to the characters as you know they're going into hell for you.
The universe is more expanded on, but that's hardly suprising. I did really like how they expanded on the Geth and batarians, showing different viewpoints and different people, showing your ME1 preconceptions were pretty poor.
Complete removal of the inventory is a step too far, but I HATED the ME1 system.
Import feature is cool, but most decisions were handled quite poorly, and too many emails, though Conrad Verner's mission was fun, though bugged, and meeting Gianna and Shiala again was good. I sense bigger repercussions for letting Wrex lived, as mentioned earlier. Even small details, like not recruiting Garrus, have a few extra lines of dialouge added or standard ones removed.
I'd give ME1 about 8.9/10, and ME2 9.5/10.
My view on this anyway. I'm a huge fan of both games and have every piece of DLC bar pinnacle station and Equalizer.

Modifié par darknoon5, 13 mai 2010 - 07:17 .

[Xpheyel]

TJSolo wrote...

No your point was that the weapon progression in ME1 has no interesting choices, I am not off topic in calling that complete BS.
The weapons mod system alone surpasses the linear weapon progression ME2 has. The upgrades in ME2 are just linear increases they mirror the various iterations(i, ii,iii...x) found in ME1.
The ME2 gun selection is limited and overly simplified.
Well I will continue to look at my Infiltrator, Sentinel, and Engineer in both games while you continue to say ME1 has no interesting weapon choices.

So a Lancer III vs. and Avenger IV is interesting to you? Can you actually name two guns where you make a choice that is anything like choosing between the Claymore and the Katana in ME2?

Cause you know, that is what I was actually talking about. Not the mod system or the existence of the progression. You're talking about something else and pretending thats what I was talking about. Just like TerrorK, first you say "Weapon selection", nothing about customization, then you bring up customization as a gotcha no matter how many times I say I know ME2 has no customization.

I said it ON THIS PAGE, four hours ago!

However, I would say that ME1's mods still don't allow for as much differentiation as ME2's weapons because they don't have traditional reload and there are basically only two max RPM options (Snowblind rounds or not Snowblind rounds). The Claymore does 2.46 times more damage than a Scimitar in a single shot in ME2. The three best Shotguns in ME1 are lot closer to start with and even slapping two Rail mods on doesn't get around that, maybe 1.7 times but turning it into a one-shot monster? Nope. Also overheat is always going to let you find a sustainable ROF you can continue firing at. 

FluxDeluxe wrote...

sorry to but in here guys but i find both systems fundamentally flawed. Some kind of hybrid of the 2 like say fixed weapons like me2 with loads of customisable upgrades would be the most elegant solution.

Yes exactly! That'd be cool if it was done well. It's entirely the base item design from ME1 that I'm saying is boring. 

Modifié par Xpheyel, 13 mai 2010 - 07:51 .

[SkullandBonesmember]

http://defconawesome...n-smoke-review/



Yet another who complains about too much dialogue. Wow. That's sad that one could consider dialogue in ME2 "too much".

[TJSolo]

Xpheyel wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

No your point was that the weapon progression in ME1 has no interesting choices, I am not off topic in calling that complete BS.
The weapons mod system alone surpasses the linear weapon progression ME2 has. The upgrades in ME2 are just linear increases they mirror the various iterations(i, ii,iii...x) found in ME1.
The ME2 gun selection is limited and overly simplified.
Well I will continue to look at my Infiltrator, Sentinel, and Engineer in both games while you continue to say ME1 has no interesting weapon choices.

So a Lancer III vs. and Avenger IV is interesting to you? Can you actually name two guns where you make a choice that is anything like choosing between the Claymore and the Katana in ME2?

Cause you know, that is what I was actually talking about. Not the mod system or the existence of the progression. You're talking about something else and pretending thats what I was talking about. Just like TerrorK, first you say "Weapon selection", nothing about customization, then you bring up customization as a gotcha no matter how many times I say I know ME2 has no customization. 

I don't cherry pick the system just to fit my argument. Who the hell uses guns in ME1 without mods.
If you can't debate the entirety of the weapon mechanics then you can't maintain a worthwhile exchange of opinions.

[xster]

Seems like I can no longer use covers as effectively. I can't hide behind a door frame and peek out to shoot on the side anymore...

[Xpheyel]

TJSolo wrote...

I don't cherry pick the system just to fit my argument. Who the hell uses guns in ME1 without mods.
If you can't debate the entirety of the weapon mechanics then you can't maintain a worthwhile exchange of opinions.

Like I said, you missed the point. It sounds to ME like TerrorK is that finding a bunch of poorly differentiated guns in different places every time is better than a small selection of well differentiated guns on the same places every time. Regardless of mods. I'm disagreeing. 

You want me to say ME2 has no weapon customization again? Yeah, ME2 has no weapon customization, it would be good if they added customization in ME3. 

[uberdowzen]

Terror_K wrote...
I did say, and I quote, "When Shepard found The Hammerhead there was no comments about it, just the silent opening of a crate. Shepard said nothing about The Geth or the artifact, etc. whatsoever, and nor did anybody else" which refers directly to The Hammerhead missions. It just so happens that the Hammerhead missions suffer from N7 syndrome too.

Yeah, it's irritating but not a game breaker.

The key there is the words "when they work" because my main issue with the trend is quite often they don't show you enough, and you have to go into another screen or press a button to get that information. A classic case of this is Brutal Legend, where I kept having to go to the map screen to see where I was when driving and other screens to get other details. If I have to keep doing that when a small indicator on screen all the time would be better, then its annoying. The Hammerhead sections really should be closer to the HUD you had in ME1 for the Mako. If it really bothers people to have something on screen, then make it toggle-able and give the player a choice.

Regarding Mako combat I suddenly realise that what was simple and fun on the PC version would be tricky and a chore on the 360 one, but the 360 Mako controls needed a major overhaul anyway.

Yeah, they do suck when they don't work although they seem fine to me most of the time. I think the thing about the hammerhead is that it's either damaged or undamaged so the interface would be telling you very little.

Not sure exactly what you mean here. Are you referring to having to change out weapon mods in guns as opposed to having them as powers? My main beef with the powers thing was that they didn't make much sense (why would a skill effect whether you could use an ammo mod or not and how well it worked? Makes as much sense to me as your persuasion skill being changed to a weapon mod). Beyond that, I think they just work better as weapon mods. I'd actually prefer it even if you couldn't change them on-foot and modifications to weapons had to be done at a weapon loadout station. Or at the very least not in a combat situation (i.e. if you can't save the game, you can't mod a weapon).

Well, in ME2 for example, you shouldn't have to pause, open the inventory, select that character, select the right weapon, change ammo. I should be able to do this through the ingame interface. Also, to clarify, my opinion is that in an action RPG you shouldn't have to go into the inventory or the stats screen if you can possibly avoid it. The stats and inventory are essentially allowing you to customise a character that you then use in an action game. I shouldn't be worrying about both aspects at once.

Not sure which picture you are referring to... that presentation had a lot of slides and pictures after all.

Just had a look, I mean the one in the section entitled "How do we make Mass Effect 2", then under upgrade GUI. Not exactly like that (I mean this is one of the designs they dismissed) but something along those lines.

I was looking for whichever dev has said they hasn't played ME1, and while I couldn't find it I couldn't help but find the following post from Preston Watamaniuk from almost a year ago:-

Preston Watamaniuk wrote...

Your comment about us selling out and making the game too generic is mirrored in many other posts and threads throughout the message boards and it does concern me greatly. 

What we did at the end of ME1 was examine where certain mechanics, game play experiences and narrative were not working well together. We looked at your feedback and the feedback of reviewers and team members to really figure out where our problems were. My goal with ME2 was to make it more accessible to a larger fan base but in a way that did not sacrifice its RPG depth. I think those two goals can co-exist and over the last year and a half we have made great strides in being able to examine things such as inventory and make it better. Inventory, its acquisition, use and management is much more streamlined on ME2. We took the single activity of switching out gear and mods and broke it down into a set of more manageable tasks that accomplish the same exact result. These tasks are also hooked into the wider game in more interesting ways than on ME1 as well. Let me be very clear you will be able to collect, upgrade, personalize and manage inventory on ME2.

There was more, but that's what caught my eye. Especially the stuff in bold. Sorry Preston, but I have to say you failed in your task. You may have made it more accessible to a larger fanbase, but you did sacrifice its RPG depth doing so. And that last part is just laughable.

Oh well, so they lied. They still made a great game in my opinion so I don't care.

[uberdowzen]

iakus wrote...

Well clearly I feel most strongly about plot and story. I could have forgiven pretty much all the changes if there had been a better story behind ME1.

I'd also like the leveling system to be more interesting and complex. The current way seems too simplistic.

Putting mods back into weapons would also be a good idea. I'd like to be able to customize my weapons to better serve individual playsyles. Rate of fire or stopping power? Ammo capacity or accuracy? Bigger damage or better armor penetration? That sort of thing. Amps and omnitools would probably also fit in this.

Helmet toggles would be nice, but I see as a more cosmetic change. I have no particular problem with planet scanning, though I had no particular problem with the Mako either

Another thing I'd like to see in ME3 are better outfits for squaddies.  Does anyone else thing that the Cerberus uniform makes it look like they ressurected Shepard to win them the World Cup rather than fight the Collectors? And many of the other squaddies...Jacob looks like he needs a cape and cowl, plenty's already been said about Miranda and Samara.  Maybe they were going for a "dark and edgy" look but to me it was closer to "ridiculous" Presentation is important, Bioware!

Don't have time to answer this right now, but I'm thinking I might start a seperate thread for this list and try and come up with something that both sides of the fence are happy with. Thoughts?

[Vena_86]

From my observation those who relentlessly defend ME2 do so by black and white analysis. Its either ME1s way or ME2s way. Where is the imagination?

ME1 had some flawed systems that in their state had more to offer than the systems in ME2 but with very clunky, ineffecient, partly annoying implementation. But that doesnt make the ME2 systems any better only because they are implemented better.

What the sequel should have done is eliminating the bad things, while maintaining the good parts or even improving them. What ME2 did instead is eliminating whole systems, along with the bad AND the good parts. The only thing that really has improved for most people is the shooter combat mechanics, but to the sacrifice of many things that together made Mass Effect special and different. It is a step forward and atleast one step back. Instead of building upon the foundation, while scraping of the rough parts, the sequel started almost from scratch. That is not what a sequel should do, specially to a game that was quite successfull and respected in its own right.