10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

[quote]tonnactus wrote...

[quote]SoapyIllusions wrote...

[quoteSure the stories aren't interconnected per say, but they all help to build towards a better understanding of the universe of Mass Effect and why you should be giving a damn to saving the galaxy in the first place.
[/quote]

What?

Talis Mission.I agree.Legions,Grunts and Mordins too.
Everything else?Mostly boring everyday problems in a science fiction robe.Garrus?Revenge.What did this horible boring mission adds to the Mass Effect Universe?Its the same with Thane,Mirandas etc.
Nothing special and interesting except samara(but ardat yakshi are selden and a niche problem).

I dont play sci fi games for an daily soap experience.

[/quote]
In general way I agree with you. I think ME2 had too many characters and what causes main story been in second place. How ever, every loyal mission, did add background to the your squad member. Maybe it's not really main story related, but it does also deeper relation between you and your squad members.  Not allways in good direction.

[KitsuneRommel]

Dudeman315 wrote...

I meant recruitment and loyalty mission per character felt like DLC. Unifying whole? Does Jacob's or Miranda's dad save or destroy the suicide mission, or Grunt, or Tali, or have an effect on someone other than those characters? There is no unifying whole plotline--just a collector one and several character ones that never really interact--Yes the characters go on the suicide mission but nothing about their loyalty mission or recruitment effects it. If the narrative would have been woven there may have been a unifying whole but there wasn't. Just several unrelated stories about people who's contributions tie into the main(Collector) plot on only the most basic levels.

Though we don't know how the geth or the genophage will play out in ME3 or if Miranda's father will make an appearance. After all we are talking about a trilogy. If I only saw Empire Strikes Back I wouldn't rank it very high either.

[Dudeman315]

I still rank Empire higher than Return but that me.

[KitsuneRommel]

Dudeman315 wrote...

I still rank Empire higher than Return but that me.

So do I but without Return of the Jedi ESB would've just been a disconnected mess of events that led nowhere.

[AlanC9]

Vena_86 wrote...
 Previously the Mass Effect franchise had something to offer which was quite unique, exploring the galaxy. It did this imperfecty, but here I was hoping for BioWare to improve that which makes Mass Effect matter and not just be another game. Instead they did the opposite: They almost removed the "explore the galaxy" aspect and focused the whole game on shooter action like so many other freakin games already do.

Ick. Exploration wasn't what made ME1 matter. It was just a mostly stupid way to stretch out the game.

You've got a job to do in ME1. That job doesn't involve running around charting planets. It only works because Saren's one of those thoughtful RPG enemies that will wait patiently for you to catch up to him.

[Iakus]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Though we don't know how the geth or the genophage will play out in ME3 or if Miranda's father will make an appearance. After all we are talking about a trilogy. If I only saw Empire Strikes Back I wouldn't rank it very high either.

I really, really ope everything will make sense in ME 3, but somehow I doubt it.

I for one would rank Empire Strikes back a lot lower if it involved:

Luke Skywalker dying on Hoth.  His body is retrieved and revived by Jabba the Hutt, who sends him off to recruit a dozen bounty hunters to go on a suicide mission against the Empire's latest secret weapon.

Throughout the movie there is little actual Imperial presence (it's mostly other bounty hunters he fights) and Vader is only heard as a voice over Stormtrooper comlinks

Han and Leia only make cameos, showing disapproval of his choice to work with Jabba.

Luke would get a lot of emails from people on Tattooine and the Rebel Alliance thanking him for his work though .

Modifié par iakus, 15 mai 2010 - 08:19 .

[Iakus]

double post, my bad

Modifié par iakus, 15 mai 2010 - 08:17 .

[TJSolo]

AlanC9 wrote...

Vena_86 wrote...
 Previously the Mass Effect franchise had something to offer which was quite unique, exploring the galaxy. It did this imperfecty, but here I was hoping for BioWare to improve that which makes Mass Effect matter and not just be another game. Instead they did the opposite: They almost removed the "explore the galaxy" aspect and focused the whole game on shooter action like so many other freakin games already do.

Ick. Exploration wasn't what made ME1 matter. It was just a mostly stupid way to stretch out the game.

You've got a job to do in ME1. That job doesn't involve running around charting planets. It only works because Saren's one of those thoughtful RPG enemies that will wait patiently for you to catch up to him.

It is called providing perspective on the in-game universe.

[KitsuneRommel]

iakus wrote...

I for one would rank Empire Strikes back a lot lower if it involved:

LOL.

Ok, in that case New Hope involved:

Obi-Wan Kenobi dieing in first 10 minutes of the film.

Instead of dealing with the Death Star Luke goes on to fly to dozen different planets, driving around with his hovercraft and marking up mineral locations.

Darth Vader dieing in the end (TWICE!).

Luke romancing Princess Leia (implications... disturbing).


Bah. Too tired to think of anything funny.

[KitsuneRommel]

TJSolo wrote...

It is called providing perspective on the in-game universe.

And isn't that what your squadmates are doing in ME2 and not just by being walking codices either?

Modifié par KitsuneRommel, 15 mai 2010 - 08:30 .

[TJSolo]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

It is called providing perspective on the in-game universe.

And isn't that what your squadmates are doing in ME2 and not just by being walking codices either?

I am talking about having missions and side jaunts outside the scope of the main quest. A character info dumping about their life does not provide the kind of perspective about the in-game world I am referring to.

[tonnactus]

AlanC9 wrote...



Ick. Exploration wasn't what made ME1 matter. It was just a mostly stupid way to stretch out the game.

Oh,really? The geth incursion have a really strong connection to the plot.Saren ordered the geth to prepare for an attack.
Something like this didnt exist in Mass Effect 2.
Cerberus mission?Also some things to stretch the game i guess.

You've got a job to do in ME1. That job doesn't involve running around charting planets.

This also wouldnt involve something boring like solving family problems or revenge.
If you didnt like,dont do it. No one forces you to do side quests. But other players like freedom. And it was good that no smoking **** ordered you to go to some specific places after a given time. Shepardt researched himself and acted.

Modifié par tonnactus, 15 mai 2010 - 09:03 .

[foxstranger]

Events of mass effect, or just some perfect random thoughts reflect?

Bell was ringed in the labs, and with that sound a person came. Technological age begun, but shrouded events and names are still fun ) I like riddles, how about you, friends?

[AlanC9]

tonnactus wrote...
Oh,really? The geth incursion have a really strong connection to the plot.Saren ordered the geth to prepare for an attack.
Something like this didnt exist in Mass Effect 2.

No objection to that if it had been presented as something that might help with the main mission. But it isn't and it doesn't.

Cerberus mission?Also some things to stretch the game i guess.

Absolutely. You've got no reason to take that one on. Saren is time-critical. Cerberus is not.

This also wouldnt involve something boring like solving family problems or revenge.

Right again.

In an RPG you can have any two of freedom, the hero knowing what needs to be done, and a game that makes sense.

Modifié par AlanC9, 15 mai 2010 - 09:54 .

[TJSolo]

AlanC9 wrote...


Absolutely. You've got no reason to take that one on. Saren is time-critical. Cerberus is not.

This is not an episode of 24. There is sense of urgency but there is no enforced time limit.

[AlanC9]

TJSolo wrote...


This is not an episode of 24. There is sense of urgency but there is no enforced time limit.

Exactly. That's another problem with the game. Of course, it's a problem with RPGs generally, so I'm not particularly complaining about it.

Edit: Like I said, two of the three. You can have freedom and sense if you don't make the overall goal urgent. Examples include Morrowind, where Dagoth Ur's been at work for literally centuries so a few months here or there won't make any difference, and BG1, where the plot only becomes urgent right about the time you finally know what it is.

Modifié par AlanC9, 15 mai 2010 - 10:15 .

[Poison_Berrie]

tonnactus wrote...
If you didnt like,dont do it. No one forces you to do side quests. But other players like freedom. And it was good that no smoking **** ordered you to go to some specific places after a given time. Shepardt researched himself and acted.

Except he got his research mostly from the Council. And there were lots of fixed points and (mission) counters that kept track of you progression as well.

As for TIM ordering you to go somewhere. In the context of the mission it made sense.
All those missions are time constrained.

[Iakus]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

iakus wrote...

I for one would rank Empire Strikes back a lot lower if it involved:

LOL.

Ok, in that case New Hope involved:

Obi-Wan Kenobi dieing in first 10 minutes of the film.

Instead of dealing with the Death Star Luke goes on to fly to dozen different planets, driving around with his hovercraft and marking up mineral locations.

Darth Vader dieing in the end (TWICE!).

Luke romancing Princess Leia (implications... disturbing).


Bah. Too tired to think of anything funny.

Touche.  I guess this goes to show that comparing game stories to movies are bad analogies.

But the point of my post was that if you have a sequel that:, removes most of the supporting cast, pushes aside the major antagonist, retcon one of the villains into a sort-of ally, and pretty much forget about the major events that went before, you don't have a "weak middle part", you have an entirely seperate story.  If the intention is a single story told in three parts, like Lord of the Rings, or Star Wars, , this is a Bad Thing.  It's almost like whoever made the story for ME2 not only didn't work on ME1, but didn't even play it, just read notes about it and came to indivudual conclusions. "Coming this summer:  Star Wars, the Empire Strikes Back!  Directed by Michael Bay!"  Okay Maybe that was a little bit hyperbole, but I caught myself thinking of that final boss again...

Like I said, I'm hoping that ME 3 will somehow fuse the two stories together in a way that makes sense, but I honestly can't see how it'll happen.

[KitsuneRommel]

iakus wrote...

Like I said, I'm hoping that ME 3 will somehow fuse the two stories together in a way that makes sense, but I honestly can't see how it'll happen.

Me neither. There's just too many variables with possibly huge repercussions (Rachni, Geth, Collector base, Genophage) that I don't think they can be resolved in ME3. I'm not sure if they even should be. But who knows. Maybe Bioware will pull a bunch of rabbits out of a top hat.

[Poison_Berrie]

iakus wrote...
Like I said, I'm hoping that ME 3 will somehow fuse the two stories together in a way that makes sense, but I honestly can't see how it'll happen.

Though I won't argue that it was a weaker (main)plot in ME2, the way both stories work/come together is and should be obvious. 
The Reapers were having the Collectors build them a new gate opener (out of humans).

[CroGamer002]

I never see in my life so many nickpicking.

Many did give good arguments but still many of you nickpiked it both games.

Both games are great and both have flaws.

Actually ME2 makes me play ME1 while ME1 makes me play ME2.

So if Bioware put all good stuff in ME1&2 and remove bad, we will have best game ever, Mass Effect 3!

Or we will have usual EA game.

[KitsuneRommel]

Mesina2 wrote...

So if Bioware put all good stuff in ME1&2 and remove bad, we will have best game ever, Mass Effect 3!
Or we will have usual EA game.

Mass Effect 1 & 2 REDUX. One can dream.

[Iakus]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

iakus wrote...

Like I said, I'm hoping that ME 3 will somehow fuse the two stories together in a way that makes sense, but I honestly can't see how it'll happen.

Me neither. There's just too many variables with possibly huge repercussions (Rachni, Geth, Collector base, Genophage) that I don't think they can be resolved in ME3. I'm not sure if they even should be. But who knows. Maybe Bioware will pull a bunch of rabbits out of a top hat.

Some repercussions would be too long-term to really play out in a trilogy.  I'm just settling for a way to bridge the two games in a way that makes them part of the overall storyarc.  Right now they simply don't feel like part of a greater whole.  ME2 is s seperate game with just enough connection to ME 1 to get me depressed over what could have been.  I think I said this in a different thread, but that rabbit would have to be the frakking Easter Bunny

[Iakus]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

iakus wrote...
Like I said, I'm hoping that ME 3 will somehow fuse the two stories together in a way that makes sense, but I honestly can't see how it'll happen.

Though I won't argue that it was a weaker (main)plot in ME2, the way both stories work/come together is and should be obvious. 
The Reapers were having the Collectors build them a new gate opener (out of humans).

That is a possibility, but it leaves several questions:  Some of my more important ones include:

1) Sovereign already tried that.  Even with total suprise, a geth fleet, and a secret way onto the Citadel for Saren, he failed.  What could another Reaper do?

2) Why the Terminator Kong look, when all the other Reapers seem to look like Cthulhu?

3) Wouldn't it make more sense to simply send the Collectors out to their Emergency Backup Relay to Dark Space and turn it on? It would be REALLY shortsighted if they didn't have one.  Of course, it would also be really foolish of Soveriegn to waste so much time on the Citadel instead of using that.  Hmmm...